Agreed, except McNair hired these pepole and has a history of not investing in FA. This causes guys like Davenport to become starters.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Agreed, except McNair hired these pepole and has a history of not investing in FA. This causes guys like Davenport to become starters.
austins23
Hall of Fame
The freakin Tacks started its 4th and 5th OT's! The 4th and 5th!!! Let that sink in for a bit.
Mercilus has been a no show the first two games, Clowney, hurt again, Watt still trying to get his legs back under him. Hell, at least Ejiafor looks like he can rush the passer some.
O/U on QB sacks for the Texans this Sunday? I'll start it at a modest 2.5
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Another gnawing issue was RAC's inability to stop the Wildcat on the 2nd TD drive. His penchant for giving up huge cushions to WRs. And his lack of being creative in creating pressure. RAC himself could be doing a better job calling a defensive game.
Scooter
Funky
The Titan's ability to run at will, including from the wildcat, is where I immediately thought "this is why Clowney's tackles for loss are as important as his sacks". Watt penetrates, Mercilus holds the edge, and Clowney drives - he's catching hell for his stupid penalty (as he should), but we hold the Titans to 7 fluke points if Clowney is on the field to blow up their run game. As I said a few weeks ago as trade potential, he won't get the epic sack numbers, but Clowney has serious value.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I keep saying it. Clowney is the best run stopping edge defender in the game. If the system allowed him to put his hand in the dirt more as a 4-3 DE the sack numbers would look more sexy also.
Scooter
Funky
I half agree ... Clowney is the best run stopping edge defender. He's not going to get the sack numbers though, because that's not his strength. Clowney is "jump, length, strength". He doesn't have the hands or quick separation to be that epic pass rusher. IMO that's not a bad thing. Watt has everything required to be an epic pass rusher ... and is often a liability in the run game. Ask any coach in the NFL and they will say 'I want to stop the run and force them into our coverage'. It certainly would've been nice to have Clowney forcing the Titans to make Gabbert throw the ball for 4 quarters.
Watt has put up some big TFL #s in his career. Some teams have guessed right and ran right where he was and gotten good production, but not all them. Watt is also excellent at tracking down RBs from the back side if the play.
If I were OB, I'd be putting 12 personnel out on the field and make the bad guys honor that. That will give the OL much needed support, make the running game dang near unstoppable and you can get creative with your passing game. Adkins flashed some talent in the receiving game so far.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Watt in the past has had some lapses in the run game sure. Early in RAC's tenor he didn't always play within the system, and it would lead to us getting gashed, didn't happen all the time but it was mostly ignored because his good out weighed his bad. Last week Watt played within the system and forced the Titans to always run to the opposite side of where he was lined up, because he was wrecking their run game. If Clowney was healthy and lined up opposite of Watt we could have had 2 guys on each end, it would have been nice.
Oh yeah! Kinda like last year's opener when we were fired up to dedicate the season to the Harvey survivors??
At least the Astros didn't disappoint.
If the O-line guys are so obviously lacking in talent why didn't the coach cut 'em? I can't think of a successful coach that isn't in deep on the player selection process.
I cannot accept that O'Brien and Devlin aren't responsible for the group of guys we have.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Mike Devlin hasn't shown me much since he's been here. Why couldn't we keep Brandon Brooks so Devlin could coach him up? Devlin got to coach him one year and Brooks sucked that season. Brooks went to the Eagles and became a Pro Bowler and also an essential component on a Super Bowl winning team.
I don't want to hear this nonsense about Devlin not having the talent to work with. I understand our current offensive line sucks. But it's his job to coach up our young offensive linemen!
When I see any of our former offensive linemen that sucked here but go on to have great success elsewhere, that is when I start to realize that the coaching was the problem.
I'm tired of giving Mike Devlin a free pass. He's part of the problem!!!
I don't want to hear this nonsense about Devlin not having the talent to work with. I understand our current offensive line sucks. But it's his job to coach up our young offensive linemen!
When I see any of our former offensive linemen that sucked here but go on to have great success elsewhere, that is when I start to realize that the coaching was the problem.
I'm tired of giving Mike Devlin a free pass. He's part of the problem!!!
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Agreed. Also read my post above.
We had a pro bowler that we let go also.
It's the coaching that can coach up a young player.
Take those sub-par players and train them to be good!
Do your job, Mike Devlin. Stop making excuses!
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
After seeing the time 4 had in the pocket against Titans I am not as concerned as I was pre-season.
What needs to happen is that coach needs to get clever and design a lot more quicker, shorter throws across the middle when teams start stacking the box.
What needs to happen is that coach needs to get clever and design a lot more quicker, shorter throws across the middle when teams start stacking the box.
After years of tanking it to get top draft picks.
PFF ranks the Texans OL 31 out of 32:
Starting Lineup:
Left Tackle: Martinas Rankin, 49.7
Left Guard: Senio Kelemete, 54.2
Center: Nick Martin, 58.7
Right Guard: Zach Fulton, 70.5
Right Tackle: Julie’n Davenport, 55.9
The Texans’ offensive tackles cannot hold up one-on-one on the edge against any legitimate rusher, and coach Bill O’Brien knows it. They chipped as much as they feasibly could this past week, and Martinas Rankin and Julie’n Davenport still combined for 10 pressures allowed.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-after-week-2
Starting Lineup:
Left Tackle: Martinas Rankin, 49.7
Left Guard: Senio Kelemete, 54.2
Center: Nick Martin, 58.7
Right Guard: Zach Fulton, 70.5
Right Tackle: Julie’n Davenport, 55.9
The Texans’ offensive tackles cannot hold up one-on-one on the edge against any legitimate rusher, and coach Bill O’Brien knows it. They chipped as much as they feasibly could this past week, and Martinas Rankin and Julie’n Davenport still combined for 10 pressures allowed.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-after-week-2
Looks alot like what PFF predicted would happen with the Texans OL this yr.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
You were right all along. What if we had done everything we could this past off-season to improve our offensive line? Let's say we had signed Nate Solder and traded for Trent Brown.
Imagine how much better our O-Line would be right now?
With Nate Solder at LT and Trent Brown at RT. I mean wow!
That would be the backbone of a pretty good offensive line.
We wouldn't have to worry about that weak list KDog posted.
austins23
Hall of Fame
The Oline looks good blocking the run. So maybe Devlin has that part down. The pass pro and the passing game need updating. Like @Texansphan says, get clever with the passing game. Butt Chin keeps wanting to go with 7 step drops and these guys can't block that long. Something's gotta give.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
To me, neither the talent evaluation or the coaching gets a pass because of the others' lamentable performance.
I do put the blame on Rick Smith over Gaine though, I think he gets some chance to put the mess right.
Devlin has 3 years of season on season regression to his name, whether you think the talent was there or not, the players who remain go backwards under his coaching.
OB is to blame for this Johannes Factotem coaching where your developmental one last hope LT spends most of his rookie season playing jumbo tight end and your stud high draft pick guard in Suo Filo wastes his formative years learning every position.
Even if this coaching staff reaches the playoffs from here it's time to move on, because we've seen the script time and again that they will not beat top teams when it matters.
I do put the blame on Rick Smith over Gaine though, I think he gets some chance to put the mess right.
Devlin has 3 years of season on season regression to his name, whether you think the talent was there or not, the players who remain go backwards under his coaching.
OB is to blame for this Johannes Factotem coaching where your developmental one last hope LT spends most of his rookie season playing jumbo tight end and your stud high draft pick guard in Suo Filo wastes his formative years learning every position.
Even if this coaching staff reaches the playoffs from here it's time to move on, because we've seen the script time and again that they will not beat top teams when it matters.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Since we are playing the what if game..
What if we would've done that and the oline still sucked.
Just gotta spend the $$$$ and they had the cap space to get it done.
It wouldn't have.
# Proven players are better than hoping backups work out.
I really cant believe after watching this OL you would resort to this tactic.
The difference between an org with vision and puts winning 1st vs not.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Man yall are killing me with this talent stuff. We have plenty of darn talent on both sides of the ball. If the coaches would do their freaking jobs, we would be 2-0 right freaking now.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Proven players. Man your boy is not doing great in New York. Their offensive line is worse than ours. Please explain that good sir.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
The Giants DID sign Solder. And guess what? Their OL is STILL horrible. Probably worse than ours.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Proven players. Man your boy is not doing great in New York. Their offensive line is worse than ours. Please explain that good sir.
Dude just stop. Again McNair has no freaking issue forking out the money. He offered Solders top pay and he declined.
I really don't understand why you're stuck on that false narrative.
Yes the NYG OL is bad on the right side.
Solder and Hernandez seem to be doing a good job as far as I can tell. Good thing is we can see for ourselves how Solder plays aagainst our own JJ Watt on Sunday to get a better idea of the level of Solders play. I bet Watt gets 2 sacks but I bet they come over Flowers on the right side.
McNair has a 16 yr history. You can choose to deny that history if you choose too.
Texansballer74
The Marine
That entire line is bad. I've watched both of there games. You're going solely off of word of mouth/stats.
How about watching both games and then get back to me.
Ummm JJ or Mercilus couldn't get any pressure against a couple of third stringers last week. So that bar is very very low. Against Dallas edge rushers Solder and the right tackle did not perform well. Matter of fact the entire line kept collapsing on Eli. They also couldn't get the running game going either.
I will be watching Sunday. I'm not wasting time watching 2 games before Sunday.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You're the one denying history. 14 of those 16 years the Texans were very near cap limit. Only these last 2 have had any significant space left to rollover.
#4, almost #3 in the NFL in $$$$ spent on the OL coming off of one of the worst OL's we've seen last yr. 26 mil in cap space.
How many premium FA's have the Texans signed in those 16 yrs? I really dont care about how they spent the $$$$ I care about who they spent the $$$$ and in that regard the Texans org has been an abject failure.
Shishkabob
All Pro
well then say that instead of the false narrative that McNair doesn't let the team spend money in free agency.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I see your point but 1 man does not make an OL. This is a puzzle of 5 pieces. Solder was only as good as the other four pieces plus TB that NE surrounded him with. Put him on an island where he's the only cog and suddenly everyone is calling him a busted signing. Granted, he wasn't the top LT and the money he got certainly was a wind fall b/c of the demand for NFL LT's but he was slightly above average. Pair him with a weaker LG and suddenly he's not the same player.
For me, the pieces have to fit and this is what the Texans have failed to do.....miserably. Personally, the Texans just don't have the pieces to go out and make a big splash in FA to fix their OL, otherwise the Texans are nothing more than NYG South with little to no cap space for 2019.
But for 2019, the Texans must make the OL their top priority and possibly 2020 as well, depending if Gaine goes FA shopping in a effort to add the final piece to a young but deep OL.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Trust me I understand all of that. And thank you for driving my point home. Bring Solders here, in which we tried, doesn't mean our offensive line would be any better right now.
To me Optimistic, it is all on coaching. Kubiak had a top 5 offensive line here. We still had several of those players but Obrien putting his own stamp, cleared house. He employs a scheme in which the lineman has to adapt to his high octane offense that changes every game, on the freaking fly.
I'm really having a hard time understanding why some doesn't see that.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
In addition to Solder, the Giants took a G with the 34th overall pick and got a starter G from the Jags. The also have a 1st round RT. They still suck.
PFF on the Giants, ranking them 23rd:
Starting Lineup:
Left Tackle: Nate Solder, 83.7
Left Guard: Will Hernandez, 74.9
Center: Jon Halapio, 72.3
Right Guard: Patrick Omameh, 59.6
Right Tackle: Ereck Flowers, 61.7
I know the Giants’ offensive line looked like it got completely obliterated this past week, but much of that was the Cowboys’ blitz schemes against New York’s protection calls. Manning was only under pressure on 16 of his 51 dropbacks, but he converted six of those pressures into sacks. Dallas blitzed 13 times, and Manning was sacked on five of those plays. A few of those were miscommunications up front, but Manning has to help his line by getting the ball out quickly with extra rushers.
Starting Lineup:
Left Tackle: Nate Solder, 83.7
Left Guard: Will Hernandez, 74.9
Center: Jon Halapio, 72.3
Right Guard: Patrick Omameh, 59.6
Right Tackle: Ereck Flowers, 61.7
I know the Giants’ offensive line looked like it got completely obliterated this past week, but much of that was the Cowboys’ blitz schemes against New York’s protection calls. Manning was only under pressure on 16 of his 51 dropbacks, but he converted six of those pressures into sacks. Dallas blitzed 13 times, and Manning was sacked on five of those plays. A few of those were miscommunications up front, but Manning has to help his line by getting the ball out quickly with extra rushers.
Barnwell in espn:
Watson has been pressured on an unreal 48.8 percent of dropbacks so far this season, which blows away even the Russell Wilsons of the world. Nobody else in the league is above 40.4 percent, and the league average for pressure rate is 27.8 percent. Watson is averaging 8.3 yards per dropback when unpressured and 4.7 yards per play when the opposing team gets on him.
https://es.pn/2QKdjEc
Watson has been pressured on an unreal 48.8 percent of dropbacks so far this season, which blows away even the Russell Wilsons of the world. Nobody else in the league is above 40.4 percent, and the league average for pressure rate is 27.8 percent. Watson is averaging 8.3 yards per dropback when unpressured and 4.7 yards per play when the opposing team gets on him.
https://es.pn/2QKdjEc
Texansballer74
The Marine
In the first half of that game that offense played horrendously bad. In the 2nd half they played much better.
Texansballer74
The Marine
If their oline coach can work with and improve their right side, they'll be in tall cotton .... and it might allow Barkley to run for 200 yards .... on us !
Texansballer74
The Marine
We're good at stopping the run. Manning will have a big day because our pass rushers are nonexistent.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Will Jadeveon Clowney ever be reliable?
I always have to wonder will he play or not...
Sigh, I'm kind of over it already. It's frustrating.
The dude picked up a costly penalty on the side line!
EDIT: Oops! Wrong thread. I'll just leave it here anyways.
Since the post above was talking about the nonexistent pass rush.
I always have to wonder will he play or not...
Sigh, I'm kind of over it already. It's frustrating.
The dude picked up a costly penalty on the side line!
EDIT: Oops! Wrong thread. I'll just leave it here anyways.
Since the post above was talking about the nonexistent pass rush.