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State of the O-line

Shishkabob said:
The Henderson signing proved you wrong this very off season, but you don't want to accept that. Just move a long now we won't agree on this
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One player that was overcoming Chrons disease and had a previous relationship with Gaine doesn't mean things have changed.

After 16 years color me skeptical.
 
Shishkabob said:
The Henderson signing proved you wrong this very off season, but you don't want to accept that. Just move a long now we won't agree on this
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One player that was overcoming Chrons disease and had a previous relationship with Gaine doesn't mean things have changed.

After 16 years color me skeptical.
 
TheKDog said:
Tweet from @evansilva: #Patriots pass rush when facing #Texans: 3 sacks, 12 QB hits
#Patriots pass rush when facing #Jaguars: 0 sacks, 4 QB hits

#Titans pass rush when facing #Texans: 4 sacks, 10 QB hits
#Titans pass rush when facing #Dolphins: 1 sack, 2 QB hits
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Dang now that says it all.
 
@ZFA_Mike: According to @NFL, the #Texans have the least experienced O-Line in the league, by a pretty large margin. Despite that, they are 1st in rushing yards (315) and average yards per rush (5.3), and 4th in rushing 1st downs. If DW4 can get his rhythm, it will help out pass pro.

Patdstat retweeted that and seems to think the problem is Watson
 
TheKDog said:
@ZFA_Mike: According to @NFL, the #Texans have the least experienced O-Line in the league, by a pretty large margin. Despite that, they are 1st in rushing yards (315) and average yards per rush (5.3), and 4th in rushing 1st downs. If DW4 can get his rhythm, it will help out pass pro.

Patdstat retweeted that and seems to think the problem is Watson
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He’s not saying anything of note..the rushing stats he used are inflated & skewed......b/c of Watson’s rush yards
 
TheKDog said:
@ZFA_Mike: According to @NFL, the #Texans have the least experienced O-Line in the league, by a pretty large margin. Despite that, they are 1st in rushing yards (315) and average yards per rush (5.3), and 4th in rushing 1st downs. If DW4 can get his rhythm, it will help out pass pro.

Patdstat retweeted that and seems to think the problem is Watson
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I wonder if Watson's rushing yards are padding that stat.
 
Are we not watching the same game here, Watson rushing is just icing on the cake. Both Miller and Blue are running the ball pretty darn well behind that inexperienced line.

Oh and we all knew beforehand that they will have their growing pains. Rome wasn't built over night so why are we expecting this line to be world beaters right off the jump.

Lol no real real time snaps for the ones and we're expecting a top 10 offensive line.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Are we not watching the same game here, Watson rushing is just icing on the cake. Both Miller and Blue are running the ball pretty darn well behind that inexperienced line.

Oh and we all knew beforehand that they will have their growing pains. Rome wasn't built over night so why are we expecting this line to world beaters right off the jump.

Lol no real real time snaps for the ones and we're expecting a top 10 offensive line.
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I don't think anyone expected this except the uber homer. Most are just in their feelings b/c of the expectations they had for the team as a whole coming into the season and the overall dismal play we've seen thus far.
I was pretty upset with the Pats loss...the Titans loss didn't bother me so much. Probably b/c I'd told myself beforehand to not let myself go crazy if we did happen to lose.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I mentioned up stream that the Texans could consider this a good thing if they could identify 2-3 OL as starter or solid backup material going into 2019. This will inevitably payoff since it focuses that draft on which positions on the OL should be a priority while having the ability to use this years OL as a way have reasonable depth.

Damn we need a better OL Coach!!!

I'm still thinking the LT and RG should be the OL focus in the draft. I'm still wary of Martin at Center. If his play doesn't jump leap and bounds this season....he should be bumped to RG at some point and allow Mancz to start at Center. Last year and 2 games into this season....Martin still hasn't played the position better than Mancz did in 2016.

Did I mention.....we need a better OL Coach for next season. Devlin hasn't improved the play of any player he's had a chance to groom.
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So Zach Fulton is no good? Is he better/worse than Kelemete who seemed to grade poorly Sunday?
 
Mr teX said:
I don't think anyone expected this except the uber homer. Most are just in their feelings b/c of the expectations they had for the team as a whole coming into the season and the overall dismal play we've seen thus far.
I was pretty upset with the Pats loss...the Titans loss didn't bother me so much. Probably b/c I'd told myself beforehand to not let myself go crazy if we did happen to lose.
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I think the key is most if not all of us thought Watson at least by game two would be close to what he was preinjury 2017. A healthy Watson would make all aspects of offense better..but he has not. He is healthy even if not 100% so why is he not playing like 2017? IMO, it has little to do with other players but is either coaching/training or coaching as in O'Briens plan for him perhaps both? We were stunned when coach came out with statement he would be formulating a new scheme for #4 despite the incredible success shown last year despite oline being in turmoil. Why would O'Brien change HOF play? We all get need to keep Watson safe but not like this. 0-2 would not be so crazy if team was progressing significantly but it isn't. McNair should be paying close attention.
 
Mr teX said:
I don't think anyone expected this except the uber homer. Most are just in their feelings b/c of the expectations they had for the team as a whole coming into the season and the overall dismal play we've seen thus far.
I was pretty upset with the Pats loss...the Titans loss didn't bother me so much. Probably b/c I'd told myself beforehand to not let myself go crazy if we did happen to lose.
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I'm upset about both games because they were winnable. But mainly because, we keep making the same mistakes, shotting ourselves in the foot. These slow lethargic starts and etc.
 
TheKDog said:
@ZFA_Mike: According to @NFL, the #Texans have the least experienced O-Line in the league, by a pretty large margin. Despite that, they are 1st in rushing yards (315) and average yards per rush (5.3), and 4th in rushing 1st downs. If DW4 can get his rhythm, it will help out pass pro.

Patdstat retweeted that and seems to think the problem is Watson
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The problem is the scoreboard.

Its easy (easier) to run the ball when you are behind and teams are giving you that as time ticks away with every rushing play.


The problem isn't simply Watson - He's part of it but those dudes up front just aint very good.


Add to that OB doing his best to force Watson to impersonate the GOAT (Tom Brady) rather than run an offense that plays to his strengths.


This suckitude is a collective effort.
 
badboy said:
I think the key is most if not all of us thought Watson at least by game two would be close to what he was preinjury 2017. A healthy Watson would make all aspects of offense better..but he has not. He is healthy even if not 100% so why is he not playing like 2017? IMO, it has little to do with other players but is either coaching/training or coaching as in O'Briens plan for him perhaps both? We were stunned when coach came out with statement he would be formulating a new scheme for #4 despite the incredible success shown last year despite oline being in turmoil. Why would O'Brien change HOF play? We all get need to keep Watson safe but not like this. 0-2 would not be so crazy if team was progressing significantly but it isn't. McNair should be paying close attention.
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Coming into the season You should've expect pull back from Watson no matter what..

the pace he was on was unsustainable
he was coming off an ACL
team now had tape on him

Aside from that, he hasn't even been bad like us Texans fans know bad qb play. He's like any other qb whose ever played the game just can't overcome bad o-line play. But I truly believe he's only going to be better from here forward.

Unfortunately what has been as bad as advertised is the o-line play. Many were concerned coming into the season but i think too many were expecting too much from DW4 to overcome it; not in his condition. So what this comes down to is 2 things.

Watson isn't superman
unrealistic expectations about Watson to overcome something that was known as a problem from the outset.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I'm upset about both games because they were winnable. But mainly because, we keep making the same mistakes, shotting ourselves in the foot. These slow lethargic starts and etc.
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With rare exception, the slow starts have been a texans tradtion dating back to Kubiak and his scripted 1st drive. They either worked great and we scored a TD (rare)...or we were 3 & out. Don't exactly know why that is.
 
badboy said:
I think the key is most if not all of us thought Watson at least by game two would be close to what he was preinjury 2017. A healthy Watson would make all aspects of offense better..but he has not. He is healthy even if not 100% so why is he not playing like 2017? IMO, it has little to do with other players but is either coaching/training or coaching as in O'Briens plan for him perhaps both? We were stunned when coach came out with statement he would be formulating a new scheme for #4 despite the incredible success shown last year despite oline being in turmoil. Why would O'Brien change HOF play? We all get need to keep Watson safe but not like this. 0-2 would not be so crazy if team was progressing significantly but it isn't. McNair should be paying close attention.
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Most players take 2 yrs to fully recover from ACL injuries. Watson appears to be a guy that will take 2 yrs.

BOB hasn't done a very good job either.
 
Mr teX said:
Coming into the season You should've expect pull back from Watson no matter what..

the pace he was on was unsustainable
he was coming off an ACL
team now had tape on him

Aside from that, he hasn't even been bad like us Texans fans know bad qb play. He's like any other qb whose ever played the game just can't overcome bad o-line play. But I truly believe he's only going to be better from here forward.

Unfortunately what has been as bad as advertised is the o-line play. Many were concerned coming into the season but i think too many were expecting too much from DW4 to overcome it; not in his condition. So what this comes down to is 2 things.

Watson isn't superman
unrealistic expectations about Watson to overcome something that was known as a problem from the outset.
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Yep,

Fans just weren't very realistic.

A win against the NYG's on Sunday will kind of be a hollow win. IMHO
 
Lance Zerlein's father, an NFL OL coach for 40 years was on the Lance Zerlein Show today. He could not say enough about how great an offensive line coach Devlin is. He stated that the Texans Oline problems were definitely not Devlin..........he made it clear that it was solely the player talent level. In other words, no OL coach could make chicken salad out of what we put on the field.
 
Coaching can take a team only so far...................

sport-coach-team_coach-team_talk-sports_fan-american_football-pha0994_low.jpg
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Martin has been riddled with major injuries which have left him limited. XSF lacked drive and smarts. Meyers was not that strong, but made up for it with his smarts, not to mention that he definitely benefited by the system. Brown never had a problem with strength and could concentrate on developing his technique with experience.
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Most players benefit from a system. That's point of my point is having a system, identifying the players for that system, and developing those players to fit the system. Myers couldn't run a man blocking power scheme. Guess what? That's ok because he excelled at what they asked him to be. Owen Daniels wasn't Mark Bavarro, but Kubiak never asked him to be. Brown and Winston had basketball in their background. Hell, I remember Winston working Chris Bosh in the state playoffs. We all know what kind of athlete Brown was. Those guys developed aa players. They weren't refined, ready made players. The delinquency of the line is squarely on the ol coach and possibly OB.
 
leebigeztx said:
Most players benefit from a system. That's point of my point is having a system, identifying the players for that system, and developing those players to fit the system. Myers couldn't run a man blocking power scheme. Guess what? That's ok because he excelled at what they asked him to be. Owen Daniels wasn't Mark Bavarro, but Kubiak never asked him to be. Brown and Winston had basketball in their background. Hell, I remember Winston working Chris Bosh in the state playoffs. We all know what kind of athlete Brown was. Those guys developed aa players. They weren't refined, ready made players. The delinquency of the line is squarely on the ol coach and possibly OB.
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You think Davenport can be developed? I dont, doesn't have the work ethic, dog in him.

Martin = injury prone, but I suppose he could stay healthy and improve. Doubtful

Kelemete is what he is after 5 yrs in the NFL. A versatile 6th OL that can play in a pinch but isn't a starter in the NFL. IMHO

Fulton = Solid pro, above avg starter, has dog in him.

Rankin= Young and learning on the job. He's got dog in him. If he stays healthy and they dont develop him then I agree with you about not being able to develop OL.

Henderson = Who knows, but he was solid before Davenport got Henderson's ankle broke.

This offseason I would spend a high pick even if it meant trading up for an OT and another high pick (2nd/3rd rd pick on an OG.)

Rankins/Pick/Mancz/Fulton/Pick would be my starting OL.
 
steelbtexan said:
You think Davenport can be developed? I dont, doesn't have the work ethic, dog in him.

Martin = injury prone, but I suppose he could stay healthy and improve. Doubtful

Kelemete is what he is after 5 yrs in the NFL. A versatile 6th OL that can play in a pinch but isn't a starter in the NFL. IMHO

Fulton = Solid pro, above avg starter, has dog in him.

Rankin= Young and learning on the job. He's got dog in him. If he stays healthy and they dont develop him then I agree with you about not being able to develop OL.

Henderson = Who knows, but he was solid before Davenport got Henderson's ankle broke.

This offseason I would spend a high pick even if it meant trading up for an OT and another high pick (2nd/3rd rd pick on an OG.)

Rankins/Pick/Mancz/Fulton/Pick would be my starting OL.
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As much as you dislike Rick Smith, do you honestly think he would've drafted Davenport?
 
steelbtexan said:
This offseason I would spend a high pick even if it meant trading up for an OT and another high pick (2nd/3rd rd pick on an OG.)

Rankins/Pick/Mancz/Fulton/Pick would be my starting OL.
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I expect the Texans to beat the Giants on Sunday. It's our home opener and we should be fired up to win. But if for some reason things keep going down the same boring road, and if we somehow drop to 0-3, we'll be in the driver's seat for the #1 overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft.

I kind of feel like the New York Giants are the worst team at the moment. Their right side of the offensive line makes ours look good by comparison. They lost to the Dallas Cowboys. But if we lose to the winless Giants we may become the worst team.

But my point being, we shouldn't need to trade up in the next draft. There will be some elite offensive line prospects (OT and OG) fall right into our laps with a high pick in every round. If anything, we can likely trade down, pick up extra picks and still land a top tier O-Lineman.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I expect the Texans to beat the Giants on Sunday. It's our home opener and we should be fired up to win. But if for some reason things keep going down the same boring road, and if we somehow drop to 0-3, we'll be in the driver's seat for the #1 overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft.

I kind of feel like the New York Giants are the worst team at the moment. Their right side of the offensive line makes ours look good by comparison. They lost to the Dallas Cowboys. But if we lose to the winless Giants we may become the worst team.

But my point being, we shouldn't need to trade up in the next draft. There will be some elite offensive line prospects (OT and OG) fall right into our laps with a high pick in every round. If anything, we can likely trade down, pick up extra picks and still land a top tier O-Lineman.
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Our o-line sucks right now, but lets give them more than 8 quarters with a gimpy QB, 4 of them with limited wr help and a iffy coach calling wtf plays.
 
JB said:
Our o-line sucks right now, but lets give them more than 8 quarters with a gimpy QB, 4 of them with limited wr help and a iffy coach calling wtf plays.
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I agree but if we lose to a bad Giants team and drop to 0-3 even I'm going to start losing faith in the 2018 season. The percentages of an 0-3 team making the playoffs go way down from 0-2.

I may even consider shutting down Deshaun Watson at some point. Let's say if we start off 0-6 or 0-7. He's not really going to be back to normal until 2019 anyways.

For everybody that wants Bill O'Brien fired...
The best way to assure that is to keep losing games.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
I agree but if we lose to a bad Giants team and drop to 0-3 even I'm going to start losing faith in the 2018 season. The percentages of an 0-3 team making the playoffs go way down from 0-2.

I may even consider shutting down Deshaun Watson at some point. Let's say if we start off 0-6 or 0-7. He's not really going to be back to normal until 2019 anyways.

For everybody that wants Bill O'Brien fired...
The best way to assure that is to keep losing games.
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But we were talking o-line here
 
JB said:
But we were talking o-line here
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I think our problems go far beyond the offensive line.
I'm starting to believe we should fire Bill O'Brien!
I've been sticking up for Bill O'Brien for too long...

And I wanted Mike Devlin, our O-Lines coach, fired a long time ago. We may need to clean house with the entire coaching staff to be honest. I don't even know if I want Romeo Crennel back. He's 71 and too old. I'm worried about his health. He should retire soon and live a comfortable life the 15 or 20 years he may have left.
 
After the game, they asked O'Brien what happened. He dropped his gaze and said "I don't know." They later asked JJ what happened. He got a little stoic, and answered "They were smart .... they had a good game plan!" We need him in government ! For the last 3 drafts, I've been so vocal about the need for talent in the offensive line, it irritated some, maybe many .... to the point that I was attacked during the draft .... and, probably rightly so. I've tried to stay away as much as possible. But ... evidently I've got a monkey on my back, just can't stay away ! Nearly everyone on this board is right. So many opinions, so diverse, many diametrically opposed, and yet both right. It is a talent issue. It is a draft issue. It is a coaching issue. It is game plan issue. It is a scheme issue. It is an identity issue. It is Head Coach issue. I'm not so sure that that one doesn't cover General Manager as well. Last, and far, far from least, is an Owner issue. So where do we focus our concerns ? It can't be Mr. McNair. He is a kind of Scrooge figure. We may disagree with his decisions, but he is our benefactor, so to speak. I think it would help a great deal, if O'Brien could wake up to the fact that there is only one Belichick and one Brady. They are anomalies. That is why they are able to build and maintain effective offensive lines without using 1st rd, and very few 2nd rd picks. Oh well, where would you focus?
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Is Bruce Matthews still retired? He was an offensive lines coach for the Titans from 2011 to 2013. After being an assistant here in 2009 and 2010. I would try to bring him out of retirement if he's interested in taking the job here. Matthews would be way better than Mike Devlin. Bruce Matthews is like 57 years old now. He may enjoy his retirement.
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I've definitely stated this in the past. Some folks didn't like the post.
 
OL in a lot of ways may need to be nurtured for a season like some NFL QB's. The majority of these drafted OL cannot block in an NFL scheme b/c of the college scheme they played in and their lack of strength.

Based on what I'm seeing, a lot of these OL should not be learning on the job. Like a raw QB with upside, get a veteran to mentor him during their first season while he learns his job as a rotational player on the OL. Get a OL Coach who's sound in the NFL OL fundamentals / techniques and can coach talent up....not another, yeah boss, good idea boss, you like cream in your coffee boss, hey boss...is my check ready for pickup?
 
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  1. tty Images
    "There are a lot of bad offensive lines, but the Giants' OL is the worst in the league." - NFC defensive coach

    Through two games, the New York line has allowed eight sacks and 14 hits, perNFL.com, on veteran quarterback Eli Manning. The addition of running back Saquon Barkley with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2018 NFL draft was an effort to take pressure off Manning. With the offensive line struggling, that hasn't happened. Manning is incredibly uncomfortable on nearly every drop back.

    Consequently, they are 0-2.

    The signing of Nate Solder and use of a second-round pick on guard Will Hernandez hasn't resulted—yet—in an improvement on the line. That might come as they have more time to jell, but currently there is a major problem across the front five.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...dgments-from-nfl-insiders-after-week-2#slide8
 
DocBar said:

  1. tty Images
    "There are a lot of bad offensive lines, but the Giants' OL is the worst in the league." - NFC defensive coach

    Through two games, the New York line has allowed eight sacks and 14 hits, perNFL.com, on veteran quarterback Eli Manning. The addition of running back Saquon Barkley with the No. 2 overall pick in the 2018 NFL draft was an effort to take pressure off Manning. With the offensive line struggling, that hasn't happened. Manning is incredibly uncomfortable on nearly every drop back.

    Consequently, they are 0-2.

    The signing of Nate Solder and use of a second-round pick on guard Will Hernandez hasn't resulted—yet—in an improvement on the line. That might come as they have more time to jell, but currently there is a major problem across the front five.

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles...dgments-from-nfl-insiders-after-week-2#slide8
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My concern....the Texans will somehow figure out how to make the Giants OL look amazing. But don't worry, O'Brien will save the day by saying, "put this one on me". Hell O'Brien, I haven't stopped putting them on you.
 
Yall have to understand it's the freaking system or lack thereof. Every freaking game the game plan is changing. Therefore, you need Harvard type offensive linemen. You have 6 new linemen that hasn't played in this Princeton type offense. Botton line, they need to be coached up and it's going to take some time. A few members already said this is our preseason because Mr. Brown University decided they didn't need those important reps together.

Growing pains gentlemen
 
leebigeztx said:
As much as you dislike Rick Smith, do you honestly think he would've drafted Davenport?
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I honestly dont know, but I do know Devlin worked out Davenport so I assume Devlin vouched for Davenport. I'm not a Devlin fan.

Do you think Devlin had anything to do with drafting Rankin?
 
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