infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The part you leave out is any responsibility for OB & Devlin to identify and teach what they want. They don't just specify the scheme and the GM goes and fetches.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
The part you leave out is any responsibility for OB & Devlin to identify and teach what they want. They don't just specify the scheme and the GM goes and fetches.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Yup and for whatever reason OB seems to really like the guy.
I agree with you about Devlin and said as much in my post.
Identifying talent should be on the GM/Scouts. Any scout worth his salt should know what to look for in ZBS vs Power schemes. This aint brain surgery.
I just haven't seen where O'Brien stated he was changing to a power running attack. All we ever heard was "we're going to change our offense based on who we face week-to-week. How the hell do you scout for O-linemen when you don't know what the offense is doing from week-to-week?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Don't think he ever has expressly stated it. Just called it less and less and gone from outside zone stretch to a minimal number of inside zone.
I agree with steelb halfway. Kubiak & Smith worked together to build a great OL. Kubiak placed a priority on a good OL.
I don't think OB has much knowledge, opinion or care on OL. He's a scheme guy. He gives a vague low priority wish list on OL and that's what he got. That's not all on Smith or Gaine.
BB/Ceasario/Scarnecchia and the Pats seem to be able to do it.
The main reason Ceasario was my #1 choice for GM was Ceasario.
The general idea is that you get OLmen who are capable of running multiple blocking schemes, not only switching between weeks but probably within games without tipping your hand. The blocking scheme discussion on this board oversimplifies things as though zone linemen never power block and power linemen never zone block. neither is true
Just to add: I believe that when the Texans talk about OLmen being versatile that they are not just meaning switching between center/guard, guard/tackle only, but this ability to go between systems.
Well said. This is the tenet I was referring to earlier. The versatility that you describe, usually comes under the label of talent. The lineman who is big and powerful enough to excel at man blocking and light and athletic enough to flourish in zone blocking is rare and almost always found very early in the draft. The rare player who embodies great power and extreme mobility is very valuable - see Saquon Barkley, or the man I was pounding the drum for a year ago - Ryan Ramczyk !
We had one here. His name was Brandon Brooks!
If I recall, Kubes/Smith picked him up in the 3rd round out of Miami (Ohio) and I remember thinking he seemed rather large for the ZB scheme. He's listed as 6'5" and 335 lbs on Philly's roster now. I won't pretend to know what scheme the Eagles favor but it probably doesn't matter with Brooks in there. I still think letting him go was one of the biggest blunders in the BOB/Smith era and I don't know whose idea it was, although I know money was probably the main issue since he was a FA. We saw how his cheaper replacement (Allen) turned out. I'm sure Brooks is happier now with the big contract and with that SB ring! In the mean time the Texans are still looking for his replacement. I just hope Zach Fulton can play better than the last Chief we had at RG to replace Brooks!
$$$$ did come into play, it shouldn't have since the Texans currently have the 4th lowest paid OL in the NFL. Only $100,000 out of 3rd place.
Also the Texans medical staff misdiagnosed the real health issue with Brooks. He has anxiety which caused his ulcers. The Texans medical staff kept treating his ulcers instead of what was causing his ulcers.
Another great job by the Texans medical staff.
delete
Brooks is on record saying he didn't want to play for OB. Hate to bust your bubble, but it had nothing to do with money. FA is a two way street. The highest bidder isn't always the winner.
NFL general rule,
Players go where the $$$$ is
There are exceptions, the Texans had the $$$$ to pay him. If they would've paid him the most $$$$ for an OG in the NFL I'm willing to bet he would've gotten over his differences with BOB.
How do you feel about the Texans being the 4th lowest paid OL, only $100,000 from 3rd? How do you feel about the Texans having the 7th lowest payroll in the NFL this yr? Only a little over 1 mil from 5th lowest.
I' will continue to say Uncle Bob needs his $$$$$.
It's not getting my panties in a bunch. I would rather the Texans be in the position they are in now than be saddled with huge cap numbers for less than stellar players. Solder is not stellar. I don't knowenough about Norwell to judge, but plus talent OGs can generally be found for reasonable contracts or in the draft. As I've said before, I want to see how the OL looks in a game that counts. How will you feel about the Texans being the 4th lowest paid OL, only $100,000 from 3rd if the Texans end up with a better than average, or even average, OL? I'm not about to predict where I think the OL will end up after week 16 based on pre-season games, so let's revisit this in January.
Norwell was 1st team all Pro.
Usually as a team you get what you pay for.
5th lowest payroll, 4th worst record.
4th lowest OL probably means a lower 20's OL.
Meanwhile the owner is counting his billions.
Shishkabob
All Pro
yes McNair really cared so much about that extra $1 million you claim would have signed solder while counting his BILLIONS. you contradict yourself so much it is hilarious.
hey, guess what if you added solders 16 mil annual salary to our current line spending we would have a top 10 paid Oline? do you think having Solder alone would make us a top 10 unit, because that is what you imply? We have how many lineman still on rookie contracts? oh and btw mister you have to spend huge money and invest draft capital to have a quality line, your man crush Norwell was an UDFA
Which has absolutely nothing to do with cap spending
It was posted somewhere here before that Norwell excelled as a run blocker, but graded closer to average in pass-pro.
Perhaps the Texans didn't bother with Norwell because of this fact?
Please literally everyone on this board knows how you feel about spending on the OL, Solder, Norwell, protecting Watson at all costs, yada yada, can we PLEASE just move on??
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The article gave a very skewed uninformed view of the whole picture. Brooks underlying "resentment/hate" of O'Brien (not shared by most of the players under O'Brien) was based on his being pushed so hard for his bizzare unexplained behavior before not only regular games, but also before practices. This was all due to very late diagnosis of his ulcer disease.........and his entirely undiagnosed underlying severe anxiety condition. O'Brien was acting on the basis of what the medical staff was giving him..........a minimizing of the responsibility of his medical status for his disruptive behavior........and therefore leaving the focus on a laziness aspect.
1st team all pro, so he wasn't bad at pass blocking, he was actually quite good at it. Just not as good as his best in the NFL run blocking. To bring this point home? Would you rather have Miller running behind Norwell or Kelemete on 3rd and 1 with the game on the line in Foxboro this weekend?
You didn't get the meaning of my last post.
Respond to the 5th lowest payroll
4th lowest by $100,000 from 3rd lowest spent on the OL.
Of course this backs up what I've been saying all along so I can see why you wouldn't want to respond to that part of the post.
Shishkabob
All Pro
you mean like you chose to ignore my post, and other posters post or parts because it shows how full of crap you are?
but yea McNair let Kubs and Smith spend money and picks into building a top 5 oline, but he has told OB he has to scrape the bargain bin every year he has been here. you are delusional
BTW, Smith/Kubiak didn't pay alot for their OL. The Ol did get raises over the yrs but orignally.
Brown 1st rd $$$$/ Wade Smith mid FA $$$$/Myers 6th rd $$$$/Briesel UDFA $$$$/Winston 3rd rd $$$$.
Not exactly breaking the bank in 2008.
Shishkabob
All Pro
so you mean you dont need to have a line full of 1st rounders, and top paid free agents to have a top 5 unit? another contradiction on your end?
McNair let them spend money on the line before it might not have been when they first got here, but when they earned that next contract he wasn't stingy with the checkbook.
again you ignore the part of my post that proves you wrong, just like you accused the other poster of doing
Shishkabob
All Pro
or he was plan b since rankins got hurt early. Rankins in limited action has looked like a find, I think he could be a starter before seasons end
Don't go buttin in with all your facts when I'm bustin Steel B's chops!!!
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Chris Myers was not on his rookie contract in 2008. He made $3.85 mil. Briesel also was not on his 1st contract. He made $2.4 mil. Wade Smith came in 2009. Pitts was LG and made $4.38 mil.
True, though I really dont think he's a good plan b either. And Lamm shouldnt be on a roster.
So your basically talking about 12 mil for an all pro C and a starting LG/RG/RT 3rd rd pick. You're missing the point, the point is they were a very inexpensive OL. BTW, how much was DB's rookie contract. I bet the entire OL didn't cost more than 15 mil. # Quite a bargain. Which is my point. But you knew this and just wanted me to have to type a bunch more.
Joy
Hope their right and the Chron's doesn't act up on him again. Or he gets busted for weed. BTW, I like the Henderson signing, a serviceable RT on a cheap contract.
What part, how about paying talented top tier guys up front, a novel idea that you dont seem to get.
Once again the numbers speak for themselves, 4th, really 3rd lowest paid OL in the league and you want to argue with me. SMH
Don't go buttin in with all your facts when I'm bustin Steel B's chops!!!
I agree with CnD's post, the Texans medical staff screwed the pooch. AGAIN
But they probably wouldn't have re-signed him again anyways. When has the Texans org ever spent top 5 $$$$ on an OG.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I wanted accuracy. Your loquaciousness is on you.
Brown made $2.9 mil, Winston made $6.5. You lose your bet. They spent $20 mil out of a $116 mil cap.
In today's cap dollars that would be $30.6 mil. That line wasn't cheap.
Shishkabob
All Pro
wait if they are the 4th lowest, how are they really the 3rd lowest?
again stop ignoring my initial point where would we rank if you add in Solders 16 million? they would be almost top 10, do you really think Solder makes our line a top 10 unit?
100,000 grand from 3rd. But if you want to count pennies (NFL pennies) have at it.
Which is why Winston got cut.
Shishkabob
All Pro
again ignoring the part of my post that doesnt suit your argument.
What part.
Hey man, you're right.
The numbers speak for themselves, you get what you pay for.
I'm done here.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Uh-huh, 4 years later.
Shishkabob
All Pro
the part where I told you to add Solders 16 mil to our total. that would bring us up to a top 10 paid oline, do you think solder makes us a top 10 unit?
In other words failure is the excuse.
After Solder they should've movved on to Norwell.
Or gave Solder a deadline and moved on to Norwell.
Bottom line is the numbers dont lie. 7th cheapest roster in the NFL. It is what it is.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I'm just saying your acting like they sat pat, and kept Filo, giacomini, and Allen. they didnt they obviously addressed the oline this year. Your boy Gaine didnt go after Norwell, regardless if your conspiracy theorist mind thinks McNair is a poor enough businessman to purposely tell them not to protect his most valuable asset. You weren't going to fix the line in 1 off season, no GM would have given both Norwell and Solder 16+ a year and handicapped their team like that. The line, and the roster in general wasn't going to get fixed in 1 off season where we were already handicapped. If you hate this organization so much go follow your idol Coughlin and his glitter kitties, because apparently them not maxing their cap every year so they can roll it over and spend when there are players worth spending on is the right thing to do but when we do it we are killing Watson so McNair can add a couple of million to his multi billions
Shishkabob
All Pro
also Norwell agreed with the Jags during the legal tampering period, not much of a window to give Solder to make a decision
Texansballer74
The Marine
Norwell was as already off the market. He was the Giants first choice. Do you even follow what's actually going on or went down?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Norwell was as already off the market. He was the Giants first choice. Do you even follow what's actually going on or went down?
Link please?
Looks like you have something to discuss with TB
While I do agree with most of this post, I will be rooting for who I wish to root for.
Yes, adecade and a half of proof and the numbers in the Spotrac suggest McNair is cheap.
Texansphan
Football connoisseur
Cheap? He gave JJ the biggest contract ever to a defensive player.