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State of the O-line

JB said:
This reply was interesting


SteveBunin‏Verified account@SteveBunin 21h21 hours ago
Replying to @SeanTPendergast
That's nothing. I'll see your @HoustonTexans O-Line and raise you the @Seahawks OL. @LanceZierlein @LopezOnSports @getnickwright

DJeAQOCW0AAMAyM.jpg
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Holy Sh!t that's absolutely freaking hilarious! :lol:
 
well the question in hand from that Scout anyalysis of the OL 2016 is that in july to september those same OL linemen did a 360 deg in 2 months. i say those same linemen need to step it up to match at least 2016 talent level. The only 2 not there from 2016 are Oday and Brown. The other alternative was the OL coaching methods
 
zshawn10 said:
Vinnie Ronca @PFF_Vinnie
Texans RT Breno Giacomini surrendered 7 total pressures (2 sacks/1 hit/4 hurries) today vs the Jaguars.

5:22 PM - Sep 10, 2017

Vinnie Ronca @PFF_Vinnie
The Texans O-line allowed 23 total pressures vs the Jags. RBs allowed 2 more and 1 was charged to Watson.

26 pressures on 58 pass plays.

8:53 AM - Sep 11, 2017

Vinnie Ronca @PFF_Vinnie
Other than C Nick Martin (0 pressures), every starting Texans O-lineman surrendered at least 3 pressures vs the Jaguars

5:25 PM - Sep 10, 2017
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No idea what he is saying is a pressure, but there is no way Martin gave up 0 pressures. The guy was getting flattened every other play.
 
amazing80 said:
No idea what he is saying is a pressure, but there is no way Martin gave up 0 pressures. The guy was getting flattened every other play.
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Taking PFF as fact is where a lot of people get screwed up. These grades are based on the opinions of one or two guys who watch a replay of the game. You and I could watch a replay and come to different conclusions. Here is a piece of an article on PFF that has some quotes by Bill Belichick.

Last August, Bill Belichick talked about the dangers of watching film and making conclusions based on it.

It might even look to us like somebody made a mistake but then we look at it more closely maybe somebody besides him made a mistake and he was trying to compensate. I think we need a little closer analysis a lot of times. Sometimes the play calls or what was called on the line of scrimmage might be something that we’re not aware of. That could happen in any game. You think a player did something that he shouldn’t have done but maybe he got a call, a line call or a call from a linebacker or he thought the quarterback said something so he did what he thought was the right thing or maybe it was the right thing but that call shouldn’t have been made or should have been on the other side. But yeah, I think we need to be careful about what we’re evaluating.

So sometimes even the team itself doesn’t know exactly where things broke down and who did what wrong. Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?
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Some plays are obvious. A WR drops a pass. A QB overthrows a receiver. A LB misses a tackle. But there's more nuance in a football game than can be determined by people that aren't privileged to the assignments of a particular player. If Bill Belichick can't say for certain what happened on a play, how can some guys watching a recording do it? Take the grades of PFF with a huge grain of salt. What we can determine is whether a team is successful or not. And the credit or the blame can be pointed at those who built and coached the team.
 
Benton needs to be canned. He's done nothing with XSF. Allen has somehow regressed from a tough, physical guard and turned into a meek pussycat who routinely gets knocked on his ass. And the line is not cohesive at all. How many times have I seen guys that look like they are in the middle of a Chinese fire drill and seem clueless. Benton probably signed off on letting Oday go and Brooks go. Hell, Brooks is 10 times better than Allen.

Between that, and BOB's horrid offense, I'm already sick of 2017 and we're one game in. I can't watch this freak show for 15 more weeks.

Four years this guy has had to just put a decent product on the field. Just competent. That's all anyone wants to see. Something that resembles a professional offense. And in four years, it not only hasn't gotten better, it seemingly gets worse year after year. How is that even possible.

We need a total revolution on the offensive side of the ball. This **** has to be stripped down to the bare walls and rebuilt board by board.
 
It is what it is. So is this the OL come Thursday?
LT Clark n Davenport
LG Filo
C Martin n Fuller
RG Mancz
RT Lamm n Giacomini

TE Baylis

PS Quessenberry
Pray for no more injuries they scraping the bottom of the barrel...
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
He is showing the same gross weakness against resistance and leverage that you see with any lineman with an ongoing back problem..........not unlike Watt demonstrated this game.
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I just watched the game for the third time, the Jags DL was much stronger and tougher than the Texans OL. Watt was manhandled for most the game, even by the tight end. Watt is NOT nearly as strong as he was in his best years. Also Clowney is back to his old disappointing self because he's standing up at the 7 and 9 technique position. Clowney is a hand in the dirt 3 and 5 technique player.
 
I know this is completely off the subject, but Watt's performance was extremely discouraging. I thought he'd go all beast mode and it just didn't happen. And I agree with Texian on Clowney. RAC had these guys in the right roles. So far, I'm underwhelmed by Vrabel, but hopefully he gets it together soon.
 
TexanBorn51 said:
It is what it is. So is this the OL come Thursday?
LT Clark n Davenport
LG Filo
C Martin n Fuller
RG Mancz
RT Lamm n Giacomini

TE Baylis

PS Quessenberry
Pray for no more injuries they scraping the bottom of the barrel...
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The only thing we know for certain about the O-line on Thursday is that Allen will not be playing and that Watson had better be on rollerskates back there when a pass play is called!

My guess is that Mancz will take Allen's spot at RG, like you stated above, and they are probably stuck with XSF at LG for now, but I just don't know if they will move Clark in at LT. I know Giacomini is pretty bad at RT and Lamm would be a better fit there. Lamm was definitely out of place at LT. I just don't know if they think Clark would be any better at LT. They really miss DB and need him to come back if they want to try and salvage this season and even that's no guarantee. They're stuck and they know it! They can shuffle the pieces around any way they like but crap is still going to be crap in the end!
 
I noticed Mancz was in for at least one series at LG. Then Allen got hurt & he was moved to RG with XSF co.ing back at LG.

Was XSF out for a bit due to injury, or was that a benching? I thought his play warranted a benching.
 
thunderkyss said:
I noticed Mancz was in for at least one series at LG. Then Allen got hurt & he was moved to RG with XSF co.ing back at LG.

Was XSF out for a bit due to injury, or was that a benching? I thought his play warranted a benching.
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XSF was evidently benched, because his only activity on the field was watching the D pass him by.................something he could accomplish just as well sitting on the bench.
 
Lucky said:
Taking PFF as fact is where a lot of people get screwed up. These grades are based on the opinions of one or two guys who watch a replay of the game. You and I could watch a replay and come to different conclusions. Here is a piece of an article on PFF that has some quotes by Bill Belichick.


Some plays are obvious. A WR drops a pass. A QB overthrows a receiver. A LB misses a tackle. But there's more nuance in a football game than can be determined by people that aren't privileged to the assignments of a particular player. If Bill Belichick can't say for certain what happened on a play, how can some guys watching a recording do it? Take the grades of PFF with a huge grain of salt. What we can determine is whether a team is successful or not. And the credit or the blame can be pointed at those who built and coached the team.
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Veeeeeeeeeeeeery good point. In this day and age of quantification, 'everyones' an expert. I run a small nano brewery, and ratesites like 'untappd' and 'ratebeer' are constantly referred to as 'the place to look', but the problem is, most of the people rating arn't experts, and often dthey have no clue of what they're actually rating 'It's infected and sour'... no it's not, what you are tasting is dark malts and dryness...

All ratings (and other things too) based on quantification are dangerous :)
 
Offensive lineman Luke Joeckel failed to live up to expectations as a No. 2 pick with the Jacksonville Jaguars, but the Seattle Seahawks presented him with a new opportunity.

The team announced the news on Saturday.

Tom Pelissero of USA Today reported on March 9 that the one-year deal can earn Joeckel up to $8 million. On Sunday, Sheil Kapadia of ESPN reported the deal has $7 million in guarantees, but the remaining $1 million is tied into being active on gameday.
***
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-seahawks-reportedly-agree-to-1-year-contract
***
The Seahawks coughed up 7M guaranteed for #2 overall bust former Aggie Joeckel so I don't think that Browns contract calls for much more guaranted money in 2017 than that.
Also I think Joekel is playing guard so I've got to think they could be haggling over comp for Brown and at this point I'd accept a 4th round pick.
 
Someone suggested starting Fuller at OC. How practical is this? How did he do in TC? Did he "earn" his spot on the 53?

If Fuller could hold down Center half way adequately, this would allow Martin and Mancz to move to the two Guard spots, as suggested.

Is this scenario something to consider? Fuller would be the key.
 
Lucky said:
Taking PFF as fact is where a lot of people get screwed up. These grades are based on the opinions of one or two guys who watch a replay of the game. You and I could watch a replay and come to different conclusions. Here is a piece of an article on PFF that has some quotes by Bill Belichick.


Some plays are obvious. A WR drops a pass. A QB overthrows a receiver. A LB misses a tackle. But there's more nuance in a football game than can be determined by people that aren't privileged to the assignments of a particular player. If Bill Belichick can't say for certain what happened on a play, how can some guys watching a recording do it? Take the grades of PFF with a huge grain of salt. What we can determine is whether a team is successful or not. And the credit or the blame can be pointed at those who built and coached the team.
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Exactly what I've said many times.

It's one thing to see a guy flat out being whipped, but when you start talking about mental mistakes and guys doing the wrong things or not being in the right place you get into a whole gray area.

We have no clue what is going on and what that player is expected or told to do. Even if you study an offensive system coaches put wrinkles in and then add in more wrinkles on a weekly basis to game plan for specific opponents.

You could watch film and think you know what a player should do but we really don't.

Thanks for sharing that.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Exactly what I've said many times.

It's one thing to see a guy flat out being whipped, but when you start talking about mental mistakes and guys doing the wrong things or not being in the right place you get into a whole gray area.

We have no clue what is going on and what that player is expected or told to do. Even if you study an offensive system coaches put wrinkles in and then add in more wrinkles on a weekly basis to game plan for specific opponents.

You could watch film and think you know what a player should do but we really don't.

Thanks for sharing that.
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I've always said we can only guess.
I don't think you were here when I had a thread "defending" Kareem Jackson in his rookie year when a few called him a bust already.
I acknowledged that he wasn't good, but he wasn't terrible like some suggested.

That was when I used Photobucket to show the defensive line up, the routes being run, where the safeties are, so we can better guess where the responsibilities lie.
Where it was unclear, I had stated it as such.
 
Thorn said:
Found this pic of our O line in action during the Jacksonville game.

ZDPTyCdratuYHEyg14Y2ybM1Tz8-Q1vCRK15fxc6wUs.jpg
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There was a TV commercial in 2002 just like this .... HWWNBM and no line. I forget what it was advertising ....

This line may be even worse than that record setting unit.
 
Malik Jackson played like he did in Denver. Calais Cambell had a good game as well. The rest of their front seven, imo, were feeding off of them.

Does Cincinnati have that kind of front 7?
 
I love our front 4 and Geno Atkins has to be doubled or he will absolutely wreck sh*t.
Then there's our LB corps.... Good God. Outside of Burfict, who won't be playing, they just aren't that good.
Great special teams guys, but shouldn't be starting. They are the defensive liability for the Bengals.
 
PapaL said:
*Whispers* Nick Martin played like a top 10 C in his NFL debut. #Texans
https://twitter.com/veteranscout/status/908073388991582208

Video in link.
I also thought Martin played pretty good but OL was disaster overall. I like the idea of Martin at C and Mancz at G.
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Martin didn't stick out like a sore thumb in pass pro just because they don't attack him hardly.
The Jags knew they can attack the edges; that also exposes the poor guard plays for their DTs to attack.

He was not so hot in run blocking though. And in the Texans running game, when you don't gain ground in the middle (or worse, get pushed into the running lane), your RBs aren't go anywhere far.
77 yards on 21 carries is nothing to write home about; especially when there was no short yardage situations to bring the average down.

But being his first game, Martin gets a pass. Let's go gitem, big man.

:cowboy1:
 
So I'm one of the guys who said the OL should be fine this year. I was as disgusted as anyone who watched the game last week. I even stated XSF is a bust.

I'm hoping we see something tonight that makes me recant that statement. I hope we see something tonight that gives us hope.

I know we didn't draft a starter in this past draft, but getting Martin back should have been the equivalent. Mancz starting in place of Allen should improve that position as well. X... fingers crossed.

So hopefully the interior line can get it together & open some holes and protect our QB.

Tackles... We're in a pickle. Lamm was supposed to be our new RT. Maybe we should put him on the right side & shore up that position & play Clark & an extra tackle on the left side.
 
Greg Mancz got the highest score at PFF, ahead of Martin.
It was, like I had offered, the Jags strategy not to attack up the middle.
 
thunderkyss said:
So I'm one of the guys who said the OL should be fine this year. I was as disgusted as anyone who watched the game last week...
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Pretty much my position. I expected the OL to be slightly better than last year's.

But I knew the OL was the team's weakness and wanted the draft to be heavy on upgrading the talent. It's just, once the dice are cast, we have to dance with what we have; and I see no reason to constantly cry in my beer, repeating the same old rant over and over.

Brown has been the single biggest disappointment, with Allen not far behind. I expected more from Lamm and Giacomini.
 
Number19 said:
Pretty much my position. I expected the OL to be slightly better than last year's.

But I knew the OL was the team's weakness and wanted the draft to be heavy on upgrading the talent. It's just, once the dice are cast, we have to dance with what we have; and I see no reason to constantly cry in my beer, repeating the same old rant over and over.

Brown has been the single biggest disappointment, with Allen not far behind. I expected more from Lamm and Giacomini.
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Did Filo get cut already?
:brando:
 
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