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State of the O-line

badboy

Hall of Fame
I seriously doubt that Tunsil is going to extend before the new CBA
You could be correct, but here are some reasons I think you are incorrect.

1. Players want money in their pocket as quickly as possible. New CBA is at least one year away. I can put $34 GTD year 1 and year 2 an additional 16 GTD for a total of 50. In two years. His 2020 base now is $10.35. Best LT money nfl.

2. What other team offers him a QB like Watson? He knows his signing helps keep #4 in H'town. Some teams can offer the dollars but a Watson type QB and a probable playoff berth? A little more time for creative numbers crunching could make deal even better. Like $40m sign bonus at 8 prorated with $1 m base= 9m cap saving team 1.35 million. A 41.5 m year one in his bank. For comparison Nate Solder signing bonus Was 16 million with GTD at signing of 35 and that was not in first year. My sources tell me there is a strong possibility that Solder could be cut with a 13 million dollar dead money cap hit for the Giants. Titans Taylor Lewan signing bonus was only 11 million with 34 guaranteed at signing also not paid by end year one.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You could be correct, but here are some reasons I think you are incorrect.

1. Players want money in their pocket as quickly as possible. New CBA is at least one year away. I can put $34 GTD year 1 and year 2 an additional 16 GTD for a total of 50. In two years. His 2020 base now is $10.35. Best LT money nfl.

2. What other team offers him a QB like Watson? He knows his signing helps keep #4 in H'town. Some teams can offer the dollars but a Watson type QB and a probable playoff berth? A little more time for creative numbers crunching could make deal even better. Like $40m sign bonus at 8 prorated with $1 m base= 9m cap saving team 1.35 million. A 41.5 m year one in his bank. For comparison Nate Solder signing bonus Was 16 million with GTD at signing of 35 and that was not in first year. My sources tell me there is a strong possibility that Solder could be cut with a 13 million dollar dead money cap hit for the Giants. Titans Taylor Lewan signing bonus was only 11 million with 34 guaranteed at signing also not paid by end year one.
Man you love you some DW4.

DW4 is more like one of the many reasons to sign as a fa elsewhere.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Here's a good read from your most popular sports writer, John McClain, about your most popular team coach, Mike Devlin, and the offensive line. Lots of good stuff here, but one paragraph in particular caught my attention:
...More than any area of the team, the offensive line would benefit if teams had more practice time in the offseason. If the new collective bargaining agreement is approved, coaches will have even less time with their players...
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Here's a good read from your most popular sports writer, John McClain, about your most popular team coach, Mike Devlin, and the offensive line. Lots of good stuff here, but one paragraph in particular caught my attention:


The lack of player-coach contact time.........and player practice and contact practice.........is something I've harped about ever since the 2011 CBA.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
The Texans OL needs a total overhaul???????? This is just one example of why I take anything coming out of ProFootballFocus with a grain of salt.

Hmmmm... what did they say that is so wrong???

- OL needs to play better. Check!
- They are hoping their draft picks a year ago will help solidify the OL. Check!
- Byron Jones would be a good FA pickup. Check!

Now saying they need to completely overhaul the secondary is a bit of a stretch, as Justin Reid is as solid as they come, and Gipson & Conley are fine role players. But they do need to add more talent in this group.

I think you need to listen again. They didn't say the OL needs a complete overhaul.
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
Well most of us agree center Martin and RG Fulton were avg at best. Howard may be bright spot if he continues where he left off but most remember Clark/Johnson when they think of RT. I was more interested in the comments on Byron Jones fitting in our system.
I agree that Martin was average at best .... I don't think Fulton made it to average. I think Howard and Scharping will come into their own this year and be well above average. With the loss of Jonathan Joseph, can't we afford Brandon Scherff ? With the loss of Lamar Miller Miller and Carlos Hyde, can't we afford to keep DJ Reader ? Inquiring minds want to know !
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I agree that Martin was average at best .... I don't think Fulton made it to average. I think Howard and Scharping will come into their own this year and be well above average. With the loss of Jonathan Joseph, can't we afford Brandon Scherff ? With the loss of Lamar Miller Miller and Carlos Hyde, can't we afford to keep DJ Reader ? Inquiring minds want to know !
Will Duke be the three down back and who will be his back up?
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I wanted to draft Cesar Ruiz to replace Martin but he's suddenly being Mocked in RD1 and the Texans wouldn't get to sniff him from their position in RD2. I would sign Scherff in a second if he becomes available but I'd prefer to move the available cap space towards getting answers for the defense while using the draft to hit big on offense. The offense would be young going into this season with many good years ahead of them. Defense would get their needed bridges to get them through 2021 and possibly 2022. 2021 and 2022 drafts should be enough to get the required answers on defense to replace the bridgers.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I agree that Martin was average at best .... I don't think Fulton made it to average. I think Howard and Scharping will come into their own this year and be well above average. With the loss of Jonathan Joseph, can't we afford Brandon Scherff ? With the loss of Lamar Miller Miller and Carlos Hyde, can't we afford to keep DJ Reader ? Inquiring minds want to know !
They can afford 2 high level FA's this off-season and some lower level FA's. They've chosen to re-sign their own lower level guys instead of playing in the lower level fa market.

I think the 2 high level FA guys they are going to pay are going to be Roby and Harris so the secondary should be much better. This will cost them Reader. I love Reader but at 10-12 mil per yr I want a guy who gets sacks.

I also think Reader can be replaced by Dunn and a draft pick. Blackson should also help and keep improving.

This is not what I would do but the defense should be better.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
They will draft a RB fairly high or look for another Hyde type RB off of the scrap heap.

That’s a strong possibility but they’re also in need of a pass rusher. They only have one high pick and that’s in the 2nd round. We can get a decent running back in the 3rd. We shall see.

It’s going to be interesting
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s a strong possibility but they’re also in the need of a pass rusher. They only have one high pick and that’s in the 2nd round. We can get a decent running back in the 3rd. We shall see.

It’s going to be interesting
They probably will look at a lower level guy like Correa in fa. I hope they look at Suh.

They talked to Greenard at the Combine. He could probably be drafted in the 3rd.

So they have options.

What do you think about adding FA's to fix the defense and draft picks to fix the offense strategy?

This is what I think they're going to try to do.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
They probably will look at a lower level guy like Correa in fa. I hope they look at Suh.

They talked to Greenard at the Combine. He could probably be drafted in the 3rd.

So they have options.

What do you think about adding FA's to fix the defense and draft picks to fix the offense strategy?

This is what I think they're going to try to do.
Not directed at me - but :) I'm good with any strategy that addresses their top 5 to 6 needs. I don't think you can get locked into one particular mindset e.g. offense in the draft defense in FA since both are highly dependant on what other teams do.

They need;

at least two corners (one at least a serviceable CB1 - I don't care about a lockdown CB, it can't get much worse than last year - just two guys that fit the scheme, are willing tacklers and can give the pass rush another half a second and you would see the sacks increase)

Pass rush - yeah great to have Watt back but he isn't the old Watt, dude needs help - would be great to add at least one potential 10+ sack guy and another young guy with upside (preferably two) and Merci needs 7 or 8 sacks a year to justify that contract

Right Guard - really need to strengthen that side of the line and make it a run defenses nightmare - just a guy looking to crush someone

After that it's depth;

Think they have a few backup LB's that have been in the OK/MEH range and have had a few years to prove themselves (and haven't) maybe keep Cole and find another guy or two (I personally like the idea of finding a really good coverage LB - or just draft a big safety with coverage skills and tell him "hey kid, you're an LB now"

OL depth - would be nice to grab a young center with upside and move on from Martin next year if he doesn't play better this year (I think THEY like his smarts or what he brings to the locker room - I don't like the pretty continual 5 or 6 yards he gives up straight back on most pass plays) R Johnson might continue to improve and be a quality / decent swing tackle who can spot start - but would still like to see them add some competition

DL depth - if they don't sign Reader, add another big fella with a focus on pass rushing and rotate them with Dunn, Blackson, Charles O, etc.

So realistically they need to;

hit on 1 (preferably two) high priority FA's, 1 CB and 1 Pass rusher would be fan-frickin-tastic
add two mid-tier FA's (right guard here would be nice)
two draft picks - 1 that can be a solid starter (RG or CB potentially) and one that is a borderline starter and/or plays significant snaps per game
use the remaining picks on depth (OL, DL, ST, LB)
and scour the rest of the FA's, cap casualties, waiver wire for people that didn't fit their old team's system/style buy you think fits yours
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
Not directed at me - but :) I'm good with any strategy that addresses their top 5 to 6 needs. I don't think you can get locked into one particular mindset e.g. offense in the draft defense in FA since both are highly dependant on what other teams do.

They need;

at least two corners (one at least a serviceable CB1 - I don't care about a lockdown CB, it can't get much worse than last year - just two guys that fit the scheme, are willing tacklers and can give the pass rush another half a second and you would see the sacks increase)

Pass rush - yeah great to have Watt back but he isn't the old Watt, dude needs help - would be great to add at least one potential 10+ sack guy and another young guy with upside (preferably two) and Merci needs 7 or 8 sacks a year to justify that contract

Right Guard - really need to strengthen that side of the line and make it a run defenses nightmare - just a guy looking to crush someone

After that it's depth;

Think they have a few backup LB's that have been in the OK/MEH range and have had a few years to prove themselves (and haven't) maybe keep Cole and find another guy or two (I personally like the idea of finding a really good coverage LB - or just draft a big safety with coverage skills and tell him "hey kid, you're an LB now"

OL depth - would be nice to grab a young center with upside and move on from Martin next year if he doesn't play better this year (I think THEY like his smarts or what he brings to the locker room - I don't like the pretty continual 5 or 6 yards he gives up straight back on most pass plays) R Johnson might continue to improve and be a quality / decent swing tackle who can spot start - but would still like to see them add some competition

DL depth - if they don't sign Reader, add another big fella with a focus on pass rushing and rotate them with Dunn, Blackson, Charles O, etc.

So realistically they need to;

hit on 1 (preferably two) high priority FA's, 1 CB and 1 Pass rusher would be fan-frickin-tastic
add two mid-tier FA's (right guard here would be nice)
two draft picks - 1 that can be a solid starter (RG or CB potentially) and one that is a borderline starter and/or plays significant snaps per game
use the remaining picks on depth (OL, DL, ST, LB)
and scour the rest of the FA's, cap casualties, waiver wire for people that didn't fit their old team's system/style buy you think fits yours
We may not have any running backs .... that's the problem with rent-a-players .... no loyalty .... evidently, that is, all to frequently, something that has to be thru the draft process !
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Pass rush - yeah great to have Watt back but he isn't the old Watt, dude needs help - would be great to add at least one potential 10+ sack guy and another young guy with upside (preferably two) and Merci needs 7 or 8 sacks a year to justify that contract
Whitney Mercilus was the 40th ranked player in the NFL last year with 7.5 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/table/defensive/sort/sacks/dir/desc

Whitney Mercilus is the 6th highest paid OLB in the NFL. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/outside-linebacker/

What am I missing??
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
The ol is mediocre at best and that's assuming tunsil comes back

I can't find any right guards in this draft .... lots of lefties. I always felt that Max would be better suited to the right side .... but Kelly knows best ! I hope that, over the off season, Kelly was able to teach Tunsil the importance of waiting for the damn snap count !!
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I agree that Martin was average at best .... I don't think Fulton made it to average. I think Howard and Scharping will come into their own this year and be well above average. With the loss of Jonathan Joseph, can't we afford Brandon Scherff ? With the loss of Lamar Miller Miller and Carlos Hyde, can't we afford to keep DJ Reader ? Inquiring minds want to know !
We still have adequate cap space but we have to be selective in spending it. Miller and Hyde of course do not fit into the cap space for this year as they are UFA. I would prioritize Byron Jones for cornerback and Brandon scherff for Right Guard. Vic Beasley at a much less cap hit would be ideal also. then we could go for running back and good backup for depth with our draft.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
They probably will look at a lower level guy like Correa in fa. I hope they look at Suh.

They talked to Greenard at the Combine. He could probably be drafted in the 3rd.

So they have options.

What do you think about adding FA's to fix the defense and draft picks to fix the offense strategy?

This is what I think they're going to try to do.
Good stuff Steel.

To answer your question I’m down for whatever makes the team better. They have a lot of holes to fill on defense and just a few on offense. I wouldn’t mind acquiring Suh for the veterans minimum type deal. They are interested in (CB) Harris ( S) Reshad Jones and ( CB) Trae Waynes. These guys would help the secondary out tremendously. On offense I would attempt to acquire Kenyan Drake or like you said draft one.
 
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Max

Veteran
I'm fine with Fulton at RG. Yes we can improve the position and I'd be happy if we did. I'm just saying that I'd rather improve our secondary and pass rush first and I'd even prioritize slot receiver above RG. If there's a way to get it all done, then fantastic. But I think it's more realistic that we aren't going to be able to address all of these positions and we're going to have to make due with what we have at some positions. The talent on the OLine should be good enough to have a more than adequate OLine even with Fulton imo.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
I'm fine with Fulton at RG. Yes we can improve the position and I'd be happy if we did. I'm just saying that I'd rather improve our secondary and pass rush first and I'd even prioritize slot receiver above RG. If there's a way to get it all done, then fantastic. But I think it's more realistic that we aren't going to be able to address all of these positions and we're going to have to make due with what we have at some positions. The talent on the OLine should be good enough to have a more than adequate OLine even with Fulton imo.
Like you suggest, we are not likely to fix all our problems with one draft or off season.
Any improvements will make us better.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Ehh people said that we wouldn't be able to fix our entire o-line in 1 draft & off season last year too & we did. So i don't see why we can't find 1-2 CB's and another pass rusher opposite Mercy this year.
You can fix anything in one offseason if you're willing to invest the resources. We spent 3 first rounders & 2 seconds to "fix" ours... which I honestly don't know what "fix" means in this context.

We can "fix" the defense as well, as long as your expectations aren't too high. But lets be honest, alot of the "fixing" will revolve around JJ staying healthy.
 

FuzzyLogic

Mathematically Possible
Whitney Mercilus was the 40th ranked player in the NFL last year with 7.5 sacks. https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/view/defense/table/defensive/sort/sacks/dir/desc

Whitney Mercilus is the 6th highest paid OLB in the NFL. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/outside-linebacker/

What am I missing??
Not quite sure what you're getting at? I don't think I said anything negative about Mercilus, said he needs 7-8 sacks a year to justify the contract like you said he had 7.5 - good job, keep it up but Watt and Mercilus aren't enough. Maybe we have something in Martin, maybe we don't - but regardless I think they still need to add more pass rushers. You're free to disagree, and I'm entitled to my opinion.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Not quite sure what you're getting at? I don't think I said anything negative about Mercilus, said he needs 7-8 sacks a year to justify the contract like you said he had 7.5 - good job, keep it up but Watt and Mercilus aren't enough. Maybe we have something in Martin, maybe we don't - but regardless I think they still need to add more pass rushers. You're free to disagree, and I'm entitled to my opinion.
I guess for the 6th highest paid OLB whose sole job it is to get to the passer I would expect double digit sacks. Not criticizing your post it’s a good one - just emphasizing that portion to highlight what I view as a mistake in resigning Mercilus at all; and further exasperating the situation by giving him all that money.

Relax I know covid 19 has us all jumpy and this place will tend to put you in a corner and all you can do is swing every which way, but I come in peace. (and you leave in pieces! - name the movie)

stay safe out there.

edit: just saw my post where I state “what am I missing” I must have gotten my thoughts mixed up. Babbling and typing at once I see the confusion.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Will Duke be the three down back and who will be his back up?
I think OBrien drafts either a Hyde type RB or one who can do it all leaving Duke as change of pace; hopefully with more targets as receiver; I hope that we actually get at least 2 backs in draft: James Robinson 5'10" 215 1899 yards @5.2 18 Tds & 16/80 catches Illinois St. plus
Nate Gunn 6'2" 220 Minnesota State 241/1,611 @6.7 29TDs. When reviewing small schools or NCAA 2 I want to see abundant production and both have it.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I think OBrien drafts either a Hyde type RB or one who can do it all leaving Duke as change of pace; hopefully with more targets as receiver; I hope that we actually get at least 2 backs in draft: James Robinson 5'10" 215 1899 yards @5.2 18 Tds & 16/80 catches Illinois St. plus
Nate Gunn 6'2" 220 Minnesota State 241/1,611 @6.7 29TDs. When reviewing small schools or NCAA 2 I want to see abundant production and both have it.

Would be nice if J.K Dobbins (Ohio State) is their for us in the 2nd round.. 5’10 216 lbs 725/4459 @ 6.2 with 38 touchdowns.


A.J Dillion ( Boston College) 6.0’ 247 lbs 845/4382 @ 5.2 with 38 touchdowns
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Would be nice if J.K Dobbins (Ohio State) is their for us in the 2nd round.. 5’10 216 lbs 725/4459 @ 6.2 with 38 touchdowns.


A.J Dillion ( Boston College) 6.0’ 247 lbs 845/4382 @ 5.2 with 38 touchdowns
I am huge fan of Dobbins and would be okay with the full-back but not till 5th round. He would be great replacement for Hyde. JK 2.57 and Dillon round 5 would be outstanding.
 

justmy2cents

Rookie
Contributor's Club
TK is right. It's a wonderful thought .... but it will never come to fruition. That's the way I'd do it. Draft as many difference makers as possible on offense, and fill in as well as possible, (via free agency), spots on defense. Then, next year, begin rebuilding the defense - thru the draft. Dream_Team stated this earlier and I agree 100% !
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
Would be nice if J.K Dobbins (Ohio State) is their for us in the 2nd round.. 5’10 216 lbs 725/4459 @ 6.2 with 38 touchdowns.


A.J Dillion ( Boston College) 6.0’ 247 lbs 845/4382 @ 5.2 with 38 touchdowns
Dillon could be in that Ron Dayne mold......I'd love to see him at 230 lbs where he should be even more effective. That would be close to 20 lbs off his body which could be a good thing in the long run. Dayne never got lighter and it probably hurt him in the long run. I also like Dillion as a downhill runner with some swerve.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Dillon could be in that Ron Dayne mold......I'd love to see him at 230 lbs where he should be even more effective. That would be close to 20 lbs off his body which could be a good thing in the long run. Dayne never got lighter and it probably hurt him in the long run. I also like Dillion as a downhill runner with some swerve.

He’s a big powerful runner with great vision. Strong chance he could be a three down back. Duke could still be the change of pace back/ slot receiver.

We need a big physical back. A lot defensive backs and linebackers will think twice when attempting to tackle him. This is the type of back O’Brien needs and IMO wants.


I agree with everything you said. He reminds me of Henry too.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
TK is right. It's a wonderful thought .... but it will never come to fruition. That's the way I'd do it. Draft as many difference makers as possible on offense, and fill in as well as possible, (via free agency), spots on defense. Then, next year, begin rebuilding the defense - thru the draft. Dream_Team stated this earlier and I agree 100% !
as usual im on the other end of the spectrum. we spent a boatload shoring up the offense last year. RBs are a dime a dozen, no need to spend wildly there and Im already on record as saying Duke Johnson could be the lead back. How many difference makers do you need? Watson, Hopkins, Fuller, Johnson, Tunsil, Howard .. while I look at the defense and cringe.

I'd even go into next year on final year contracts for both Watson and Tunsil if necessary while tagging DJ in order to fill out the D (hopefully with cheap drafted guys and veteran stopgaps while still retaining cap flexibility or spend on a higher profile defender, but still keeping in mind the huge contracts to be given out). Im tired of looking into the future, this team can win NOW if properly staffed. I fully expect this offense with all that talent and new vision at the OC to catch defenses off guard. As easy and convenient to lay a 51-7 drubbing at the feet of Watson and the offense, the defense needs to earn their keep too, but its not fair to them when they are bereft of talent. Who knows what Weaver will bring? I'd like to give him the talent necessary to hide any of his growing pains.
 
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Texansphan

All Pro
He’s a big powerful runner with great vision. Strong chance he could be a three down back. Duke could still be the change of pace back/ slot receiver.

We need a big physical back. A lot defensive backs and linebackers will think twice when attempting to tackle him. This is the type of back O’Brien needs and IMO wants.


I agree with everything you said. He reminds me of Henry too.
I wonder if Cullen Gillaspia can be used more often as a battering ram?
He is very physical and likes to hit.
 


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