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State of the O-line

steelbtexan said:
What the WCO or Schaub/Manning have to do with the joke that is the Texans OL?
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A measuring stick perhaps?

....
On the Texans' end, I questioned not resigning Myers, and later on Ben Jones.
Especially with the money they spent on Allen.

Brooks, I can understand.
There was an issue with the injury (that CNND had touched on) and the money.
 
76Texan said:
A measuring stick perhaps?

....
On the Texans' end, I questioned not resigning Myers, and later on Ben Jones.
Especially with the money they spent on Allen.

Brooks, I can understand.
There was an issue with the injury (that CNND had touched on) and the money.
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Despite having some injury issues that were not major, his issue was mostly because of his repeat hospitalizations for what was felt to be ulcer disease. He also suffered extreme pregame and in-game anxiety (nausea>vomitting>diarrhea>dehydration> need for pregame intravenous fluids)...............the former was never controlled and the latter was never diagnosed or treated by the Texans medical staff. Diagnosis and proper treatment came only after he was examined by his new team the Eagles. Had the Texans understood and therefore been able to control Brooks' problems, they would have probably been willing to negotiate the money.
 
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76Texan said:
Fla

Flacco and Rosenfels moved the chain well enough, didn't they?
I remember there was a fair number of fans that clamored for Rosenfels to be the starting QB instead of Schaub.
Definitely wasn't because he's a gazelle. Wait... There was the Rosencopter. (That last part was just a "fond" memory to recall. I wonder if Sage shows that play to his grand children. "Look how Grandpa flies". LOL.

IMO, the fact that Kubiak incorporates the ZBS scheme with the WCO helps the less mobile QB. The play action and the play fake buys a fraction more time. Schaub, in his best 3-4 years can get the ball out quickly and he was a little more accurate than some may think. That also reduces the need for him to be real mobile on the bootleg. Again, JMO.
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I'm pretty sure it was you who posted a link to a guide to the WCO way back when & it said the QB should be mobile. We argued about it. You were on the opposite side of the argument at the time.

Of course I could be remembering it wrong, I do that sometimes.
 
IDEXAN said:
I agree because in '16 we knew Brown was getting towards the end of probably his last contract (and older) and Newton was only an average at best pass-blocker so they should have taken advanage of what was an impressive OT class and not been over indulgent in receivers as they were. Along with corners and edge rushers (and QBs of course), there's probablay nothing more valuable in the NFL than OTs.
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Yep, I never liked Newton's game even when healthy. Thought the extension Ricky gave Newton was a mistake and said so at the time.
 
So, with DB having moved to LA, does anyone think his holdout could be about forcing the Texans hand to try and trade him, possibly to one of the LA teams? Or does everyone still believe it's all about the guaranteed contract?
 
Insideop said:
So, with DB having moved to LA, does anyone think his holdout could be about forcing the Texans hand to try and trade him, possibly to one of the LA teams? Or does everyone still believe it's all about the guaranteed contract?
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Some players rent apartments/condos in the cities they play for. I wouldn't think much of it.
Houston has no obligation to trade him. He can sit pretty on the sidelines, not collecting a check, and wasting away the end of his career. No play, no pay.
 
Carr Bombed said:
He'll be here week 1, until we pass that threshold don't panic.

When he starts missing game checks, that's when he's really going to be hit in the pocket.
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Check. If Brown fails to show up for the Jags game and passes on that game check it's then time to hit the button, though I'd really like to see him in here sooner than that to knock off the rust and get back into sync with his oline teammates.
 
BTW, Sua Filo didn't look good against the Panthers. He gave up 2 QB pressures and a sack. This guy was the first pick of the second round in 2014. He's shown close to nothing so far and Ted Johnson was saying on 610 the other day that Belichick would say if a guy hasn't "gotten it" by year 3 he's not going to. This is the last year on XSF's contract. If he doesn't start showing something real fast, he's going to be gone next year. Or maybe the Texans will have to resign him out of desperation. Without a 1st or 2nd rounder they may just have to hang on to him.
 
banned1976 said:
BTW, Sua Filo didn't look good against the Panthers. He gave up 2 QB pressures and a sack. This guy was the first pick of the second round in 2014. He's shown close to nothing so far and Ted Johnson was saying on 610 the other day that Belichick would say if a guy hasn't "gotten it" by year 3 he's not going to. This is the last year on XSF's contract. If he doesn't start showing something real fast, he's going to be gone next year. Or maybe the Texans will have to resign him out of desperation. Without a 1st or 2nd rounder they may just have to hang on to him.
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This is not the mess a talented FO usually finds themselves in but McNair has his reasons for being satisfied...I guess.
 
banned1976 said:
BTW, Sua Filo didn't look good against the Panthers. He gave up 2 QB pressures and a sack. This guy was the first pick of the second round in 2014. He's shown close to nothing so far and Ted Johnson was saying on 610 the other day that Belichick would say if a guy hasn't "gotten it" by year 3 he's not going to. This is the last year on XSF's contract. If he doesn't start showing something real fast, he's going to be gone next year. Or maybe the Texans will have to resign him out of desperation. Without a 1st or 2nd rounder they may just have to hang on to him.
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Filo did not look good this last game. Besides looking like he has not worked on his body, he has had knee problems in the past that I am skeptical will have been solved by his offseason "clean out" scope. If you read O'Brien's comments re. Filo, you have to admit they are at best "luke warm"......not very encouraging.


***************************************************************************************
With Texans' offensive line shaky, guard Xavier Su'a-Filo expects 'best year yet'
By Aaron Wilson

August 18, 2017 Updated: August 18, 2017 10:42pm

Breaking the huddle with a clap, Xavier Su'a-Filo hurried toward the line of scrimmage mindful of his assignment.

It was up to the Texans guard to create a 6-4, 310-pound wall to allow quarterback Tom Savage time to throw. Grappling with New England Patriots pass rushers during a joint training camp practice this week, Su'a-Filo kept their charge at bay as Savage had enough time to connect downfield with receiver Jaelen Strong.

Mission accomplished. It was a snapshot of how Su'a-Filo has been working to upgrade his pass protection this offseason.

Su'a-Filo, 26, has arrived at something of a career crossroads entering his fourth NFL season and the Texans' second preseason game Saturday night against the Patriots at NRG Stadium.

The Texans need a steady season out of Su'a-Filo as they plug in center Nick Martin as a new starter, determine who will be their starting right tackle with Derek Newton out for the year with torn patellar tendons and continue to operate without three-time Pro Bowl left tackle Duane Brown, who has yet to report due to a contract dispute.

"Definitely, the goal is to improve every single year," Su'a-Filo said. "This is no exception. Going into my fourth year, I've been playing quite a bit of ball. I'm planning on having my best year yet."

Drafted in the second round out of UCLA three years ago, Su'a-Filo manufactured his best season last year, starting all but one game for the AFC South champions. He improved as a run blocker, displaying sound leverage and enough strength to shove linemen backward.

Su'a-Filo didn't grade out highly in pass protection, though. The Utah native and former All-Pac-12 selection allowed 39 quarterback pressures for the third-most among all guards in the AFC, according to Pro Football Focus. And he surrendered seven sacks, the most allowed by any NFL guard.

O'Brien's take...............................

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
IMO, the guy that may contribute to the Texans's success this year might end up being Foreman.

Derek Henry had 110 carries for 490 yards (4.5 ave) and 5 TDs.

I'll take 100-400-5.
Even a less than 4 average is fine, if it includes a fair-good number of short yardage situation to move the chain.
Hopefully, another TD or 3.

With this defense, that could keep the Texans in enough games to pull out 9-10 wins regardless the QB.
 
76Texan said:
IMO, the guy that may contribute to the Texans's success this year might end up being Foreman.

Derek Henry had 110 carries for 490 yards (4.5 ave) and 5 TDs.

I'll take 100-400-5.
Even a less than 4 average is fine, if it includes a fair-good number of short yardage situation to move the chain.
Hopefully, another TD or 3.

With this defense, that could keep the Texans in enough games to pull out 9-10 wins regardless the QB.
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Agreed. It wouldn't surprise me if Foreman is the Texans' #1 RB by mid-season.
 
TheRealJoker said:
It looks like he has at least decent hands judging by preseason game 1 and what they're saying in practice. He is a better feature back than Lamar Miller IF he shows he can pass block adequately.
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I saw good hands on a few catches in college.
He totaled 13 catches over 3 years.
I didn't see them all, but I didn't see any dropped passes in maybe 10 games that I watched.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Filo did not look good this last game. Besides looking like he has not worked on his body, he has had knee problems in the past that I am skeptical will have been solved by his offseason "clean out" scope. If you read O'Brien's comments re. Filo, you have to admit they are at best "luke warm"......not very encouraging.
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I dunno but would it be that much of a stunner if they just up and cut Filo ? Not much dead money, last year of his contract, cap hit would be negligible and they got some other interior lineman like Chad Slade & Josh Walker & DQ & the rookie Fuller and always the possibility that Manz could move to guard. One of those guys, I think Slade or Walker, got raves for the 1st PS game.
Has DQ been getting the most time at LG after Filo ?
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno but would it be that much of a stunner if they just up and cut Filo ? Not much dead money, last year of his contract, cap hit would be negligible and they got some other interior lineman like Chad Slade & Josh Walker & DQ & the rookie Fuller and always the possibility that Manz could move to guard. One of those guys, I think Slade or Walker, got raves for the 1st PS game.
Has DQ been getting the most time at LG after Filo ?
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The Texans are going to keep Filo because they keep hoping that the flashes he has shown such as in some of the end of last season.......and they have been flashes............will turn dough boy into gladiator..............a repeating dream we've seen with many players with the Texans for years.

Unfortunately, at this point, Quessenbery has not shown the strength return that is required for a roster OL at any position.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The Texans are going to keep Filo because they keep hoping that the flashes he has shown such as in some of the end of last season.......and they have been flashes............will turn dough boy into gladiator..............a repeating dream we've seen with many players with the Texans for years.

Unfortunately, at this point, Quessenbery has not shown the strength return that is required for a roster OL at any position.
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Remember that summer/PS the Texans just apparently out of the blue cut Eric Winston ? Now I'm sure his circumstances were entirely different than Filos, but some times cuts can be very surprising.
But anyway I was thinking more of another guard prospect like Chad Shade than DQ being the one who might step up if the Texans were to decide to wash their hands of Filo.
Anyway this seasons reduction of roster to the 53 will be different than any other since it will be done in a single move rather than thru a series of reductions as in all past seasons.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Indeed. Which is why i'm thinking Blue makes the team. Similar to Kevin Walter being cited for his blocking ability by the Kubiak regime.
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Blue had a good game last week. Came in & was productive right off the bat (albeit against the second team).

He finally looked like a power runner. If he keeps it up, I have no problem keeping him on the roster.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I wouldn't rule out Blue.
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The last several games of last season, Blue stepped up his game. In the playoff loss to the Patriots he was on his way to having a really impressive game until Brock imploded and any hope winning faded away. It is very encouraging to see Blue running with the same aggression and purpose he showed in those last few games. Preseason game one he definitely looked like a feature back. Lets see if that holds up or is an apparition.
 
IDEXAN said:
Remember that summer/PS the Texans just apparently out of the blue cut Eric Winston ? Now I'm sure his circumstances were entirely different than Filos, but some times cuts can be very surprising.
But anyway I was thinking more of another guard prospect like Chad Shade than DQ being the one who might step up if the Texans were to decide to wash their hands of Filo.
Anyway this seasons reduction of roster to the 53 will be different than any other since it will be done in a single move rather than thru a series of reductions as in all past seasons.
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Winston was a salary cap move (a bad move, I may add).
http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-...m-Texans/e416da9b-14a6-4cdb-b627-ad79bc039e88

With X, the non-guaranteed portion is only about 500k.
Especially since these guys are paid weekly, it won't be until week 8 or 9 when the guaranteed portion runs out.
No need to cut Filo until then, unless a couple of other guys really step up as to totally outplay him.
In that case, you would have a bonafide starter.
 
thunderkyss said:
Blue had a good game last week. Came in & was productive right off the bat (albeit against the second team).

He finally looked like a power runner. If he keeps it up, I have no problem keeping him on the roster.
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Same here and if Watson is going to be starter at some point this season it is imperative the run game be strong. A strong run game helped Dak last year and Wilson when he was a rookie. I don't know of many/any rookie QB's who have had great success as a rookie w/o a strong run game. And this offensive line struggles in pass rush.
 
banned1976 said:
Same here and if Watson is going to be starter at some point this season it is imperative the run game be strong. A strong run game helped Dak last year and Wilson when he was a rookie. I don't know of many/any rookie QB's who have had great success as a rookie w/o a strong run game. And this offensive line struggles in pass rush.
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If Savage performs like he did today as well as stay healthy. He will play the entire year.

I really like what I saw out of him today. Very poised, great command of the huddle and pretty darn accurate.

You know I want Watson to be the starter because why prolong the inevitable. But hey I have to give Savage his just do, he is looking pretty darn good.
 
Texansballer74 said:
If Savage performs like he did today as well as stay healthy. He will play the entire year.

I really like what I saw out of him today. Very poised, great command of the huddle and pretty darn accurate.

You know I want Watson to be the starter because why prolong the inevitable. But hey I have to give Savage his just do, he is looking pretty darn good.
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It's one preseason game. Lets tease CND some more. He likes it.:bender:
 
I'm confused about what they think of Lamm. Is he their best tackle at this point? Is that why they start him on the left? But then they move him to the right, with the 2nd team.

So is Giacomini slotted to start at RT? He played with the ones, I don't recall him coming back out.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm confused about what they think of Lamm. Is he their best tackle at this point? Is that why they start him on the left? But then they move him to the right, with the 2nd team.

So is Giacomini slotted to start at RT? He played with the ones, I don't recall him coming back out.
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Chris Clark didn't play last night. Lamm most experienced swing tackle, makes sense he starts on left. Gives Giacomini a chance to make his case as starting RT.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Chris Clark didn't play last night. Lamm most experienced swing tackle, makes sense he starts on left. Gives Giacomini a chance to make his case as starting RT.
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So Chris Clark is our best tackle right now & RT is still unsettled.
 
76Texan said:
Winston was a salary cap move (a bad move, I may add).
http://www.chiefs.com/news/article-...m-Texans/e416da9b-14a6-4cdb-b627-ad79bc039e88

With X, the non-guaranteed portion is only about 500k.
Especially since these guys are paid weekly, it won't be until week 8 or 9 when the guaranteed portion runs out.
No need to cut Filo until then, unless a couple of other guys really step up as to totally outplay him.
In that case, you would have a bonafide starter.
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Yes I know there's not much cap space tied up in Filo at this point but since each roster spot on the 53 is so precious they would want his spot freed up for a more valuable player/contributor if there's another player who can outplsy him at LG.
 
IDEXAN said:
Yes I know there's not much cap space tied up in Filo at this point but since each roster spot on the 53 is so precious they would want his spot freed up for a more valuable player/contributor if there's another player who can outplsy him at LG.
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Sua-Filo is still the one they pull when they utilize a pulling guard. They still run behind him a lot.

I think the Texans like him much more than this board does.
 
TheRealJoker said:
Chris Clark didn't play last night. Lamm most experienced swing tackle, makes sense he starts on left. Gives Giacomini a chance to make his case as starting RT.
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So unless Clark is injured, I think one has to think that what we saw last night is their starting offensive line right now in Duane Brown's abcense.
 
steelbtexan said:
What could those reasons be?
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If RS is satisfied then it appears -to me- that McNair is also satisfied. RT was one of the bigger issues last season...and several seasons back. RS has failed to address this position in a way that means he's identified the problem and has sought the best possible solution available. He looks satisfied with the OL as is.

Last night looked better but in all honesty I don't think anyone has the warm and fuzzies in regards to this OL going forward.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If RS is satisfied then it appears -to me- that McNair is also satisfied. RT was one of the bigger issues last season...and several seasons back. RS has failed to address this position in a way that means he's identified the problem and has sought the best possible solution available. He looks satisfied with the OL as is.

Last night looked better but in all honesty I don't think anyone has the warm and fuzzies in regards to this OL going forward.
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I think the interior line is set.

I just don't know what their plans are for RT. If Giacomini is tagged for the RT spot & Lamm the swing tackle, with Davenport the project LT... it's crazy enough it might work. Well, get us through the season anyway.

I know we want a top 10 OL, but that ship has sailed.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think the interior line is set.

I just don't know what their plans are for RT. If Giacomini is tagged for the RT spot & Lamm the swing tackle, with Davenport the project LT... it's crazy enough it might work. Well, get us through the season anyway.

I know we want a top 10 OL, but that ship has sailed.
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Even ignoring his back surgery, if he is placed at RT after a history of right elbow surgery and recent significant right shoulder issues, he will likely not be long at RT.
 
thunderkyss said:
I think the interior line is set.

I just don't know what their plans are for RT. If Giacomini is tagged for the RT spot & Lamm the swing tackle, with Davenport the project LT... it's crazy enough it might work. Well, get us through the season anyway.

I know we want a top 10 OL, but that ship has sailed.
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I rewatched the 1st quarter and I'm not sure that the interior line should be set. Jeff Allen was the weakest link by quite a bit. He wasn't holding his blocks long enough and didn't seal off his man from weak side pursuit when the ball was run away from him. Lamm was excelltent. Maybe he was blocking 2nd stingers (didn't pay attention) but if this game is any indicator of how he will play moving forward, we may not miss DB like many of us thought we would. Giacomini looked like a different player than last week -- better than any play we saw from RT last year -- hopefully he keeps it up and stays healthy. The thing that stands out when watching our OL is they don't create ANY holes for up the gut runs and BoB likes to keep trying to run up the middle. I would like to see how Mancz does at RG with the starting 5, maybe he could help with that.
 
thunderkyss said:
I'm confused about what they think of Lamm. Is he their best tackle at this point? Is that why they start him on the left? But then they move him to the right, with the 2nd team.

So is Giacomini slotted to start at RT? He played with the ones, I don't recall him coming back out.
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I guess they are trying to see what lineup will be the best.

I believe once Brown comes back Lamm will start at RT.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
If RS is satisfied then it appears -to me- that McNair is also satisfied. RT was one of the bigger issues last season...and several seasons back. RS has failed to address this position in a way that means he's identified the problem and has sought the best possible solution available. He looks satisfied with the OL as is.

Last night looked better but in all honesty I don't think anyone has the warm and fuzzies in regards to this OL going forward.
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As long as they are average as a unit, RS will be ok with them.

Can't make every unit Top 10 (not my reasoning)

The Texans have been competitive, won the division, winning records...

Obviously OL is low on the totem pole for the ex DB
 
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