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State of the Black QB

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Double Barrel

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O'Brien did say he simplified certain things recently. I think B'OB decided to go back to what he was doing the first 7 Watson starts and expand on that from what Watson has learned since then. What you see now is O'Brien maximizing Watson talents using the Read Option elements, putting the game in Watson's hands. Just because you simplify things, doesn't mean the QB can't handle the offense. I think he simplified things OTHERS on the offense were doing. The WR/TE routes have changed. The blocking schemes have changed. What the RBs are doing has changed.
Watson is still making multiple reads, however, you do notice how fast he moving to the check down option and getting the ball out of his hands.
I'd like to read his quote in context. Not doubting you, but just curious about the rest of the interview.

There was an article just posted with direct quotes from Watson about them adding plays based on film study. It certainly appeared in that article that Watson is getting more and more on his plate as he continues to grow into this offensive scheme. New England's version of the EP (they way they've modified) requires a high degree of mental processing, and according to those in the know, this is the scheme O'Brien is using.

Perhaps the simplified context is for the other players, like you said. Make it easier for them to adapt, while giving Watson more power to change and counter the defense in real time pre-snap.

I've had similar things happen like that with my kids …. hell , mine grew up in a cul de sac that was like a melting pot …. white , black , Hispanic , indian , native American , Cuban , Argentinean , Vietnamese and Korean kids all playing together pretty much every day , they don't know the hate that we saw as kids.

I feel pretty fortunate to have picked this spot to call home …
Yep. My cul de sac is the same. What we've tried to teach my kids is character and honesty is what really matters, not superficial differences.

We all bleed red at the end of the day, and we all work for green.

To me , it really has nothing to do with his "intelligence".

Its about vision and processing that almost instantaneously into a decision.

I really think the term "intelligence" is misused in this discussion.
I agree with your take, but there has been some shade thrown toward Watson questioning his intelligence and "dumbing down" the playbook.

Vision and processing is certainly a more apt description, simply because every young QB has to adjust to the NFL and that learning curve is different for every player until the game slows down for them. Some never adjust, but we're not talking about Manziel here. ;)
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'd like to read his quote in context. Not doubting you, but just curious about the rest of the interview.

There was an article just posted with direct quotes from Watson about them adding plays based on film study. It certainly appeared in that article that Watson is getting more and more on his plate as he continues to grow into this offensive scheme. New England's version of the EP (they way they've modified) requires a high degree of mental processing, and according to those in the know, this is the scheme O'Brien is using.

Perhaps the simplified context is for the other players, like you said. Make it easier for them to adapt, while giving Watson more power to change and counter the defense in real time pre-snap.



Yep. My cul de sac is the same. What we've tried to teach my kids is character and honesty is what really matters, not superficial differences.

We all bleed red at the end of the day, and we all work for green.



I agree with your take, but there has been some shade thrown toward Watson questioning his intelligence and "dumbing down" the playbook.

Vision and processing is certainly a more apt description, simply because every young QB has to adjust to the NFL and that learning curve is different for every player until the game slows down for them. Some never adjust, but we're not talking about Manziel here. ;)

Bill O'Brien never said he simplified his offense for Watson.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
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Contributor's Club
Bill O'Brien never said he simplified his offense for Watson.
That's why I'd like a source to read it for myself. I have yet to read any interview where he's said it. If anything, sources close to the Texans indicate that Watson is getting more comfortable with this scheme and is getting a bigger and bigger playbook every week.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
That's why I'd like a source to read it for myself. I have yet to read any interview where he's said it. If anything, sources close to the Texans indicate that Watson is getting more comfortable with this scheme and is getting a bigger and bigger playbook every week.
The "Simplifying" doesn't mean DUMBING DOWN the offense. It about maybe limiting options on certain plays, changing routes for WRs, or changing blocking schemes. It's about EVERYONE on offense, not just the QB. Coutee was having issues with what he is supposed to do on certain plays, many of these pre-snap penalties is confusion by the linemen, RB, TEs, and WRs.

By "simplifying" things, you can make the offense more efficient.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
People around here get it twisted. The EP system is like every NFL playbook in that it revolves more around concepts as opposed to specific static plays. So when you hear BoB talking about changing "philosophies" or "simplifying" something, It is my opinion he's not talking about going away from the EP system itself but rather the approach to achieving the same concepts his system emphasizes.

So if mixing in a little more RPO will help, he will do it. Just like he's done every year since he arrived, he will adjust his offense as he needs to.
 
Sad that this is still a thing. I don't care if Watson is black, white, brown or purple. I care that he can ball better than any QB we have ever had. Likewise I don't care that Watt is white, I care that, in his prime at least, he made QBs scared to death of him. Give me the best team with the best players and I don't care what they look like or where they came from I just want them to play football.
It is. Reality of the situation is qbs are the ceo of your company. Clearly, the bears wanted a white qb. Pace, there gm stated "he wanted a qb proven at the college level" than turns around and selects the guy who couldn't beat out the starter and only has 13 starts. Anyone who thought tribusky was the best qb in that draft needs a mental evaluation
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I agree with your take, but there has been some shade thrown toward Watson questioning his intelligence and "dumbing down" the playbook.

Vision and processing is certainly a more apt description, simply because every young QB has to adjust to the NFL and that learning curve is different for every player until the game slows down for them. Some never adjust, but we're not talking about Manziel here. ;)
But watch the direction this conversation continues to go …. the rest of these cats aint talking about the same thing we are.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Grasping or executing? I think Fitz has more of an issue with consistent execution.

Could it be what I mentioned earlier - vision ?

What you see and what's actually there isn't always the same.

For what its worth , in most cases the safeties are your first read and they are always trying to disguise what the coverage actually is until forced to declare their intentions.

So …. The "First Read" isn't even a read of your potential targets. Its what their guys are doing to stop your guys ... and how to proceed from there. You've got about 2.5 seconds to process what you've seen and make a decision.
 
Honestly I'm so use to just seeing the players on the field I wouldn't know most of them if I passed them on th
Could it be what I mentioned earlier - vision ?

What you see and what's actually there isn't always the same.

For what its worth , in most cases the safeties are your first read and they are always trying to disguise what the coverage actually is until forced to declare their intentions.

So …. The "First Read" isn't even a read of your potential targets. Its what their guys are doing to stop your guys ... and how to proceed from there. You've got about 2.5 seconds to process what you've seen and make a decision.
I think in some ways Watson's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. He knows that he can make plays with his legs and pull a Houdini to get out of tackles so I think he tends to stick to his first target more often because subconsciously if that target won't work he'll just do it himself. I think if he was more a pocket passer he would look at the overall field more.

The flip side is if he was more of a pocket passer he would have been killed behind that broken line over the last two seasons and likewise other teams wouldn't leave receivers open like they do because they wouldn't have been worried about him taking off running. For him its a damned if you do and damned if you don't and that's where it falls on the play caller to call plays that get lots of guys open quickly and the coaches to teach him, "Hey right before you take off running or throw into a tight window take a half second to look at the other side of the field to see if by chance they left a guy open."

In the coaches defense though there is more to that than just coaching because they have to overcome years of muscle memory and, as I said, subconscious actions which is very hard to do. I think we were starting to see Watson take a step forward in this but then Howard went down and Clark was about as useful as a cardboard cutout of a lineman so it was two steps back. This has nothing to do with how intelligent Watson is or how complex or simple the play calling is. I don't doubt that Watson is aware of these things himself but its kind of like when someone tells you before you leave work that there is a wreck on your normal route. If you don't actively make yourself take a different route you will autopilot right back to your everyday route. Its hard to actively make yourself do anything when you have 300 lb gorillas charging at you and less that 3 seconds to make a decision.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Honestly I'm so use to just seeing the players on the field I wouldn't know most of them if I passed them on th


I think in some ways Watson's greatest strength is also his greatest weakness. He knows that he can make plays with his legs and pull a Houdini to get out of tackles so I think he tends to stick to his first target more often because subconsciously if that target won't work he'll just do it himself. I think if he was more a pocket passer he would look at the overall field more.

The flip side is if he was more of a pocket passer he would have been killed behind that broken line over the last two seasons and likewise other teams wouldn't leave receivers open like they do because they wouldn't have been worried about him taking off running. For him its a damned if you do and damned if you don't and that's where it falls on the play caller to call plays that get lots of guys open quickly and the coaches to teach him, "Hey right before you take off running or throw into a tight window take a half second to look at the other side of the field to see if by chance they left a guy open."

In the coaches defense though there is more to that than just coaching because they have to overcome years of muscle memory and, as I said, subconscious actions which is very hard to do. I think we were starting to see Watson take a step forward in this but then Howard went down and Clark was about as useful as a cardboard cutout of a lineman so it was two steps back. This has nothing to do with how intelligent Watson is or how complex or simple the play calling is. I don't doubt that Watson is aware of these things himself but its kind of like when someone tells you before you leave work that there is a wreck on your normal route. If you don't actively make yourself take a different route you will autopilot right back to your everyday route. Its hard to actively make yourself do anything when you have 300 lb gorillas charging at you and less that 3 seconds to make a decision.
BOB forced Watson to get rid of the ball quicker by changing the offense. This is how he got around what you posted.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
How terrible was the Pats defense that it took an amazing defensive effort to defeat a horrible play call..

Makes sense..
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
People around here get it twisted. The EP system is like every NFL playbook in that it revolves more around concepts as opposed to specific static plays. So when you hear BoB talking about changing "philosophies" or "simplifying" something, It is my opinion he's not talking about going away from the EP system itself but rather the approach to achieving the same concepts his system emphasizes.

So if mixing in a little more RPO will help, he will do it. Just like he's done every year since he arrived, he will adjust his offense as he needs to.
Yep. It's all about concepts with the NE EP system, and it can incorporate any style of offense. It's all about the QB, though, at the end of the day, and his ability to run it effeciently.

I've posted it before, and this is what O'Brien is using with the Texans:

Speak My Language
As the players and schemes have changed, it's the way the Patriots talk that's continued their offensive dominance

Excerpt:

The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. “You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.”

Full article
 

Hookem Horns

Administrator
Staff member
How terrible was the Pats defense that it took an amazing defensive effort to defeat a horrible play call..

Makes sense..
Did I say the Pats defense was terrible? You have a beast at RB, you run the ball in that situation when you have 3 shots to get one yard.

Instead, they decide to get cute and run a much higher risk play.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
How terrible was the Pats defense that it took an amazing defensive effort to defeat a horrible play call..

Makes sense..
Disagree.

Seahawks allowed the Patriots to make the play. Had they run it, which the Patriots has a hard time stopping, it would have been totally different.

It’s not a chicken or egg argument.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Disagree.

Seahawks allowed the Patriots to make the play. Had they run it, which the Patriots has a hard time stopping, it would have been totally different.

It’s not a chicken or egg argument.
Would it have been totally different based on the 'Hawks success rate running with Lynch in goal line situations that season?

And not chicken or egg, but low-hanging fruit playing the result argument.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
I'm a 42 year old white guy and a cop to boot. If I say something insensitive on such a volatile topic please forgive me as I feel my intent is just - even if my words dont hash it out the way I'd like them to.

My post is for the op and not the tangents off topic above.

What's the state of the black qb? I think it's pretty damned good. That good old boy system is mostly dead in the nfl (I hope.) Whatever stigmas were present 20 years ago are dying fast today. Guys like Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson are top 5 QBs, and by all accounts great individuals. Those to bigoted to get that will be weeded out soon enough I think.

I dont watch any game thinking Tomlin is a black head coach or Brisset is a black qb. I'm just not concious of it. It's a nonfactor for me and I dont care. I want the best guy available for the job and I respect production - not color. As much as i dislike Rick Smith, i still think he was better then casserly. Race is and was never an element in that. Just production.

I was around to see Warren moon and what a fantastic talent he was. I KNOW he dealt with racist crap at games. I worked with a guy years back (20 plus) who went to school with his son. They beat up his boy after every Oilers loss. I dont know if that was racially motivated but he (the co-worker) was a pos. No one deserves that.

Fast forward to today. Here's were I'm a bit torn. Guys like Doug Williams should be revered and respected. Guys like Dungy and Moon (and lots more) should all be remembered. They were trail blazers in their time. I feel like like they should be remembered as pioneers.

Problem is, are they remembered for just being good or a modern day battle cry? Should I be reminded they were a black qb or just a great qb? Is the modern day media perpetuating race issues?

Dungy was the first black coach to win a sb. Him being black seemed the lead story going into the sb game week.

Why? Can we get past that? At what point does reminding us a great player happens to be black become counterproductive?
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I'm a 42 year old white guy and a cop to boot. If I say something insensitive on such a volatile topic please forgive me as I feel my intent is just - even if my words dont hash it out the way I'd like them to.

My post is for the op and not the tangents off topic above.

What's the state of the black qb? I think it's pretty damned good. That good old boy system is mostly dead in the nfl (I hope.) Whatever stigmas were present 20 years ago are dying fast today. Guys like Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson are top 5 QBs, and by all accounts great individuals. Those to bigoted to get that will be weeded out soon enough I think.

I dont watch any game thinking Tomlin is a black head coach or Brisset is a black qb. I'm just not concious of it. It's a nonfactor for me and I dont care. I want the best guy available for the job and I respect production - not color. As much as i dislike Rick Smith, i still think he was better then casserly. Race is and was never an element in that. Just production.

I was around to see Warren moon and what a fantastic talent he was. I KNOW he dealt with racist crap at games. I worked with a guy years back (20 plus) who went to school with his son. They beat up his boy after every Oilers loss. I dont know if that was racially motivated but he (the co-worker) was a pos. No one deserves that.

Fast forward to today. Here's were I'm a bit torn. Guys like Doug Williams should be revered and respected. Guys like Dungy and Moon (and lots more) should all be remembered. They were trail blazers in their time. I feel like like they should be remembered as pioneers.

Problem is, are they remembered for just being good or a modern day battle cry? Should I be reminded they were a black qb or just a great qb? Is the modern day media perpetuating race issues?

Dungy was the first black coach to win a sb. Him being black seemed the lead story going into the sb game week.

Why? Can we get past that? At what point does reminding us a great player happens to be black become counterproductive?

It seems strange to me -

73 years after Kenny Washington became the first black in the NFL.

72 years after Jackie Robinson became the first black to play in the MLB.

51 years after Marlin Briscoe became the first black quarterback in the NFL ….

We're still talking about race?!

Yes , its media driven. Hell , you cant see who's under that damn helmet to begin with.


Me personally , I don't give a damn what race you are , what I care is that you are a good person , treat people with respect and that you do what you do well , whatever that may be.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
It seems strange to me -

73 years after Kenny Washington became the first black in the NFL.

72 years after Jackie Robinson became the first black to play in the MLB.

51 years after Marlin Briscoe became the first black quarterback in the NFL ….

We're still talking about race?!

Yes , its media driven. Hell , you cant see who's under that damn helmet to begin with.


Me personally , I don't give a damn what race you are , what I care is that you are a good person , treat people with respect and that you do what you do well , whatever that may be.
1,000 likes aren't enough for this post.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'd really like feedback from @thunderkyss on something like this. There's a fine line here between remembering a guy like Wilson and perpetuating racism purely for click bait.
I love Wilson and hope Watson can grow into the player Wilson is. Not saying Watson isn't a great player but he's got some growing to do.

The fact that I completely forgot Wilson was black gives me hope there are more people out there like me. Times are changing for the better in all walks of life when it comes to race.
 

Hookem Horns

Administrator
Staff member
The fact that I completely forgot Wilson was black gives me hope there are more people out there like me. Times are changing for the better in all walks of life when it comes to race.
I think most people today are like you. There is just a segment out there that wants to keep making race an issue. Sadly, it's mainly by those that claim to be for racial equality.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
I love Wilson and hope Watson can grow into the player Wilson is. Not saying Watson isn't a great player but he's got some growing to do.

The fact that I completely forgot Wilson was black gives me hope there are more people out there like me. Times are changing for the better in all walks of life when it comes to race.
Im at the risk of turning this into a political thread - and that's not my intent. Hopefully mods will let it stand and we can go forward with more football themes.

That said, my grandparents were racist somewhat. Not hateful, just untrusting and brought up a certain way. My parents less so and their children even less.

I think (hope) with every new generation racism squanders. A good person is just a good person. An azzhole is just an azzhole and color has no bearing. Sports does a lot to break barriers. I hope that continues.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Im at the risk of turning this into a political thread - and that's not my intent. Hopefully mods will let it stand and we can go forward with more football themes.

That said, my grandparents were racist somewhat. Not hateful, just untrusting and brought up a certain way. My parents less so and their children even less.

I think (hope) with every new generation racism squanders. A good person is just a good person. An azzhole is just an azzhole and color has no bearing. Sports does a lot to break barriers. I hope that continues.
Quoted for truth
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'd really like feedback from @thunderkyss on something like this. There's a fine line here between remembering a guy like Wilson and perpetuating racism purely for click bait.
I don't understand the question. What are you wanting me to comment on?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
As far as the state of the black QB, I think it's good to look back & appreciate how Warren Moon & others changed the game. We should remember what they endured & continue to move forward.

I wouldn't say that our journey is complete, or complain that it gets brought up from time to time, especially in context of the video in the OP. These are the guys "we" are saying did it the right way telling us how this issue affected them, shaped them, made them the people we appreciate.

These aren't the guys saying they were owed anything or using their situation as an excuse to not be all they can be. These are the role models that are very much still in need, because there are still too many people (on both sides of the issue) that just don't get it.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
Would it have been totally different based on the 'Hawks success rate running with Lynch in goal line situations that season?

And not chicken or egg, but low-hanging fruit playing the result argument.
It was 2nd and goal. It really isn’t hard to understand or see Lynch was the answer for that play.



“I’m sorry, but I can’t believe the call,” Cris Collinsworth said.

“Me neither,” Al Michaels replied.

“I cannot believe the call,” Cris Collinsworth continued. “You got Marshawn Lynch in the backfield; you got a guy that’s been borderline unstoppable in this part of the field. I can’t believe the call.”
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
As far as the state of the black QB, I think it's good to look back & appreciate how Warren Moon & others changed the game. We should remember what they endured & continue to move forward.

I wouldn't say that our journey is complete, or complain that it gets brought up from time to time, especially in context of the video in the OP. These are the guys "we" are saying did it the right way telling us how this issue affected them, shaped them, made them the people we appreciate.

These aren't the guys saying they were owed anything or using their situation as an excuse to not be all they can be. These are the role models that are very much still in need, because there are still too many people (on both sides of the issue) that just don't get it.
I like my role models to be winners, which Moon was not.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I'm a 42 year old white guy and a cop to boot. If I say something insensitive on such a volatile topic please forgive me as I feel my intent is just - even if my words dont hash it out the way I'd like them to.

My post is for the op and not the tangents off topic above.

What's the state of the black qb? I think it's pretty damned good. That good old boy system is mostly dead in the nfl (I hope.) Whatever stigmas were present 20 years ago are dying fast today. Guys like Wilson, Mahomes, and Watson are top 5 QBs, and by all accounts great individuals. Those to bigoted to get that will be weeded out soon enough I think.

I dont watch any game thinking Tomlin is a black head coach or Brisset is a black qb. I'm just not concious of it. It's a nonfactor for me and I dont care. I want the best guy available for the job and I respect production - not color. As much as i dislike Rick Smith, i still think he was better then casserly. Race is and was never an element in that. Just production.

I was around to see Warren moon and what a fantastic talent he was. I KNOW he dealt with racist crap at games. I worked with a guy years back (20 plus) who went to school with his son. They beat up his boy after every Oilers loss. I dont know if that was racially motivated but he (the co-worker) was a pos. No one deserves that.

Fast forward to today. Here's were I'm a bit torn. Guys like Doug Williams should be revered and respected. Guys like Dungy and Moon (and lots more) should all be remembered. They were trail blazers in their time. I feel like like they should be remembered as pioneers.

Problem is, are they remembered for just being good or a modern day battle cry? Should I be reminded they were a black qb or just a great qb? Is the modern day media perpetuating race issues?

Dungy was the first black coach to win a sb. Him being black seemed the lead story going into the sb game week.

Why? Can we get past that? At what point does reminding us a great player happens to be black become counterproductive?
I feel you. I think for the most part, we have been moving in the right direction in the sport. But at the same time, the storylines that come up when a black person achieves something of note in it do have alot of merit. You have to put it in perspective. We're talking about the most popular sport in the nation...& this sport has had to institute a rule just so African Americans could get their foot in the door in getting interviews for HC positions...A league in which 50-80 percent of its players are African Americans. So yeah i get it from your side, but when these milestones and topics come up, Its not necessarily for you as a white guy, but for those young black kids who look at those guys as role models. Yes, the media definitely perpetuates race issues but its only b/c there are still people out there & within this sport..........people with power and influence that still hold some of those good ol' boy beliefs. For christ sakes, Bill Polian just recently had to admit that he was wrong about Lamar Jackson (said he should switch to WR to make it in the NFL) and admittedly said that he was wrong b/c he used "the old traditional quarterback standard" when evaluating him. Well, WTF does that even mean?

It'll become counterproductive when you start seeing African Americans represented more prominently in the sport in high positions. This sport that they've more or less dominated on the field in both accolades and in player composition. The NFL is way behind the curve in that regard.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
'The old traditional qb standard' probably has to do with accurate pocket passing vs intended running.

Polian also said Tebow should've been switched to running back.
 

Hookem Horns

Administrator
Staff member
I like my role models to be winners, which Moon was not.
Besides choking in the playoffs, his off field issues were a bigger deal to me. I really looked up to the guy during his Oiler days. It was very disappointing hearing about the domestic violence and the sexual harassment accusations from women that worked with him.

Doug Williams is the role model in my book.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
Besides choking in the playoffs, his off field issues were a bigger deal to me. I really looked up to the guy during his Oiler days. It was very disappointing hearing about the domestic violence and the sexual harassment accusations from women that worked with him.

Doug Williams is the role model in my book.
According to an officer I talked with years back Moon had cheated on his wife. To get back at him she went to the Galleria and spent over a 100k on clothing etc. When he found out he lost it.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Besides choking in the playoffs, his off field issues were a bigger deal to me. I really looked up to the guy during his Oiler days. It was very disappointing hearing about the domestic violence and the sexual harassment accusations from women that worked with him.

Doug Williams is the role model in my book.
He had a side piece.

Williams was a true traiblazer, one of my favorite QB's of all time.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I feel you. I think for the most part, we have been moving in the right direction in the sport. But at the same time, the storylines that come up when a black person achieves something of note in it do have alot of merit. You have to put it in perspective. We're talking about the most popular sport in the nation...& this sport has had to institute a rule just so African Americans could get their foot in the door in getting interviews for HC positions...A league in which 50-80 percent of its players are African Americans. So yeah i get it from your side, but when these milestones and topics come up, Its not necessarily for you as a white guy, but for those young black kids who look at those guys as role models. Yes, the media definitely perpetuates race issues but its only b/c there are still people out there & within this sport..........people with power and influence that still hold some of those good ol' boy beliefs. For christ sakes, Bill Polian just recently had to admit that he was wrong about Lamar Jackson (said he should switch to WR to make it in the NFL) and admittedly said that he was wrong b/c he used "the old traditional quarterback standard" when evaluating him. Well, WTF does that even mean?

It'll become counterproductive when you start seeing African Americans represented more prominently in the sport in high positions. This sport that they've more or less dominated on the field in both accolades and in player composition. The NFL is way behind the curve in that regard.
Ozzie was the best of his generation other than Belichick.

RS not so much.

There have been successful HC's like Tomlin. Although I think he's done less with more and probably why he's still the HC of the Steelers is because he's a minority. Then you have guys like Bowles/Morris who are great assistant HC's but poor HC's.


Uncomfortable truth is when owners hire guys they dont just think about the reception they get when they hire them, they think about the reception they are going to get when they have to fire them. That goes for all hires of any race and when hiring minorities you know the media and a significant part of the fanbase are going to give you blowback. Most owners just try to avoid this and this is why the good OLe boy network exists.

BTW, I would love to see Alonzo Highsmith get a job and bring in Sean Jones as his right hand man. I think they would be very successful.
 

Mr.Scarface

Waterboy
It seems strange to me -

73 years after Kenny Washington became the first black in the NFL.

72 years after Jackie Robinson became the first black to play in the MLB.

51 years after Marlin Briscoe became the first black quarterback in the NFL ….

We're still talking about race?!

Yes , its media driven. Hell , you cant see who's under that damn helmet to begin with.


Me personally , I don't give a damn what race you are , what I care is that you are a good person , treat people with respect and that you do what you do well , whatever that may be.

AGAIN, What country are you living in? Racism is ALIVE and WELL in the USA. Just look at the actions of the occupant of the White House.

Many see color before QB.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
*rolls eyes*

In super progressive super tolerant super awesome forward thinking Europe, black soccer players are thrown bananas and hear monkey sound chants on a ******* game by game basis.

Let me know when that **** happens in the US in 2019 or hell, even in recent times. I recall a couple of terrible instances in recent years and both involved terrible Boston Sports Fans. Boston---a supposed hotbed of open-minded culture.

Fanning the flames of this bullshit is so dumb.
 

Hookem Horns

Administrator
Staff member
*rolls eyes*

In super progressive super tolerant super awesome forward thinking Europe, black soccer players are thrown bananas and hear monkey sound chants on a ******* game by game basis.

Let me know when that **** happens in the US in 2019 or hell, even in recent times. I recall a couple of terrible instances in recent years and both involved terrible Boston Sports Fans. Boston---a supposed hotbed of open-minded culture.

Fanning the flames of this bullshit is so dumb.
From what I’ve observed in Spain you are correct. It seems like there is a segment of American society that wants there to be more racism than there actually is, even to the point of actually fabricating it. It’s like they want it just so that they can be against it to make themselves look better.

It reminds me of a fireman that’s wanting there to be fires. Even going as far to commit arson so that he can go put it out to be a hero.
 

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
You guys are a trip. A black qb or a white qb. Who cares. Real question is black and white coaches. Black and white GMs. Black and white owners. Players are just cotton pickers.

And you know it.......
 
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