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SO the Texans are in first place in the division....
- Thread starter DX-TEX
- Start date
I don't understand this.
The rules, what needs to be done to get to the post season, are known by every team before the season starts. Do this, get to the play offs.
It's been this way for years.
This, "You are what your record says you are." doesn't apply in every situation. It's like saying we beat the Jets, the Jets beat the Patriots, we should have a higher seed than the Patriots. It doesn't work that way.
You play a schedule were you play the same 14 out of 16 teams as three other teams. The team that wins the most wins the division, gets an automatic bid.
Even if you don't win your division, you've still got a shot. It's called the Wild Card. That should be enough.
Remember when we were 9-7 & missed the play offs on a tie breaker? What's the difference.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Ain't that the truth.
Every so often a 9-7 team makes the playoffs and a 10-6 team stays home...people go nuts and want to change everything.
Every so often a game ends in a tie...people go nuts and want to change everything.
Of course, I guess if you do enough complaining you may eventually get your way, I mean it worked for the PAT.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The point is that those teams DID deserve to be in the playoffs and so do we. And those teams went on to do pretty good. And we can, too.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I'd like to lodge a formal complaint about this post. It's overly pessimistic.
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
Rivalries are what make sports great....the best part of division games are the rematch. They're the games that get circled on the calendar the day the schedules are announced. What you describe would result in a hum-drum season of equal intensity games with too many late season yawn-fests of top teams playing the bottom or minor juggling for position. Right now we still have divisions on the line in week 17. No way I replace that.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
If you did it that way, week 17 would be pretty boring. The GB/Min game would have no meaning whatsoever. Both teams would be hosting playoff games. The Jets and Chiefs would have nothing to play for.
Instead, you'd have 8-7 Houston, 7-8 Oakland, 7-8 Buffalo, 7-8 Colts, 8-7 Redskins, 8-7 Falcons, and 7-8 Rams fighting for those final playoff spots.
So you'd rather see the mediocre teams, you know, the teams you are crying about making it now, fighting for that last playoff spot, instead of GB/Min fighting for a division and a home playoff game with the loser going on the road? Instead of KC and Denver still fighting for a division and a home playoff game in week 17, you'd rather see Washington try to beat Dallas or St. Louis try to beat SF for that 8-8, 9-7 last playoff spot?
Is that what you're saying?
No thank you.
HJam72
Hall of Fame
If every team in the conference played each other, you'd have complaints about WHEN different teams had to play them. Some teams are great at the start and then have injuries to key players and fall apart. Some teams start slow and maybe key young players gain experience (or heal more from some prior injury, or finally come back from one), etc. Besides all of that, many teams just go cold and hot throughout the season--Texans did some of that themselves. I think the current Divisional season with all of it's scheduling parameters is really the best way to go. Sometimes a division just sucks and a team doesn't have to be that great to win it, but at least they really were the best in their division that year.
That would be interesting. I'd been trying to figure out how they would schedule it if they were to pick up two more teams. 16 conference games would work. Then the top 6 or 8 teams play offs & a Super Bowl. It would be like the old NFC AFC.
I know not everyone is going to like it. No more Giants, Jets... But... interesting
That's kinda what I was thinking... play every team in your conference every year instead of every 4 years. To think there wouldn't be rivalries is nonsensical. Most won't like it but most don't like change in any form
It's a lot easier to be a "late bloomer" with Eli and a good defense than it is with Hoyer/Weeden and a good defense! Here's hoping whichever one starts they'll catch "lightning in a bottle" like Eli did!
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I used to complain a lot about these type of things, but I've accepted the fact that the NFL isn't a league that's trying to find and reward the best football team in the league. The league is all about creating excitement and something enjoyable to watch.
If we truly want to be fair, then why stop at getting rid of divisions? What about conferences? You don't think people will complain that a 9-7 AFC team made the playoffs, but a 10-6 NFC team didn't? While we're at it, to be totally fair, should get rid of the playoff system all together.
If we truly want to be fair, then why stop at getting rid of divisions? What about conferences? You don't think people will complain that a 9-7 AFC team made the playoffs, but a 10-6 NFC team didn't? While we're at it, to be totally fair, should get rid of the playoff system all together.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Participation trophies for EVERYBODY! (Pizza party on the way home too! Everyone needs a signed permission slip)
I think they are all about trying to find and reward the best football team in the league. It's just that the best football team in the league still has to take care of business and the league isn't interested in watering that requirement down.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm not complaining, mind you; but, just extrapolating trends points toward EVERY TEAM making the playoffs with the 'regular season' being merely a tool to be used for seeding.
Add two teams:
15 games against conference opponents - 7 home, 7 away, 1 foreign soil.
Playoffs then become a standard 32 game bracket (6 weeks) with one conference on one side and the other on the other side.
This also insures that the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME never has a repeat match-up keeping the arguments about the superior CONFERENCE alive like in the old AFL-NFL days.
Everybody wins. And without a doubt, complaints would abound.
Of course this would also work with 30 teams giving the CONF winner a bye and reducing the schedule by a week and retaining the current practice of calling one team in the foreign games the home team.
Add two teams:
15 games against conference opponents - 7 home, 7 away, 1 foreign soil.
Playoffs then become a standard 32 game bracket (6 weeks) with one conference on one side and the other on the other side.
This also insures that the CHAMPIONSHIP GAME never has a repeat match-up keeping the arguments about the superior CONFERENCE alive like in the old AFL-NFL days.
Everybody wins. And without a doubt, complaints would abound.
Of course this would also work with 30 teams giving the CONF winner a bye and reducing the schedule by a week and retaining the current practice of calling one team in the foreign games the home team.
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ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Could you please elaborate on this, I'm not seeing this "trend" you mention.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This is a handy article showing the trend from no post season games prior to 1932 to the current 4 game bracket.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_National_Football_League_championship
I personally recall it going from 1 game (with an occasional tiebreaker making it 2 games) in two separate leagues to the current 4 game tournament. The NCAA has gone from a 16 game tournament to whatever monstrosity they have now.
It is the trend to have more post season games in all sports. It does increase interest (and revenue) even as it waters down each individual games importance.
ps The constant in all is that someone thinks a deserving team is being left out.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
The NFL has a smaller percentage of teams making the postseason right now than they did in 1970-71 - the first year after the merger. Since 1989 they've added four teams and zero playoff spots. I'm just missing this trend you speak of as it relates to anything we're actually talking about.
Marshall is just being a math geek and hijacking this thread. that is all.
Marshall is just being a math geek and hijacking this thread. That is all.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Look again.
2 playoff spots for ~ 14 teams in 1932 or 14%
4 playoff spots for ~ 26 teams in 1960-61' or 15%
8 playoff spots for 26 teams in 1970-71' or 31%
8 playoff spots for 28 teams in 1976-77' or 29%
10 playoff spots for 28 teams in 1978-79' or 36%
12 playoff spots for 28 teams in 1990-91' or 43%
12 playoff spots for 30 teams in 1995-96' or 40%
12 playoff spots for 31 teams in 1999-2000 or 39%
12 playoff spots for 32 teams in 2002-03' or 38%
12 playoff spots for 32 teams in 2015-16' or 38%
*Adding teams will cause a temporary drop in percentage that bucks the trend, but is not a trend in itself. I have no doubt post season expands before the number of teams does.
I suspect you're young.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Still not seeing your trend.
2 + 2= 5 mangos
You got to look at Marshall's big picture
2 playoff spots for ~ 14 teams in 1932 or 14% to 12 playoff spots for 32 teams in 2015-16' or 38%
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The repeated division games do build some rivalries, but I think the biggest rivalries come from repeated playoff encounters. For example Oilers v. Pittsburgh or Dallas v. Pittsburgh. Dallas and Pittsburgh aren't even in the same conference but the 70s clashes renewed in the 90s has them as huge rivals.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You will probably relate to this story. Years ago I was chatting with a friend who loves the Cowboys form a young age. I mentioned that he must hate the Redskins or Eagles because of division opponents.
He said, no, not really, the team that he really hated was the 49ers. I never gave it much thought beyond knowing that they had played some big playoff games over the years.
Well, NFL Films has a new series called Timeline, and they did a two part documentary about the Cowboys/49er rivalry going back to the early '70's. It was really interesting to see how these two franchises have been duking it out for decades - early '70's through the mid '90's - and it was usually within high stakes playoff games. The first thing I thought of was my buddy who had lived that history as a Cowboys fan.
We try to manufacture rivalries because of division familiarity or even regional connections (like the rather goofy and one sided Houston hate toward Dallas).
In truth, true rivalries are forged in big games. The Texans do not really have a true rivalry, simply because the Texans have never really had any high stakes game in the franchise's history. I do not see the Titans as rivals based on a franchise relocation. Tennessee fans have no more animosity toward Houston than they do Jacksonville or Indianapolis.
True rivalries have to go both ways. This is why Dallas has never been a rival. They have never percieved Houston as a threat at any point in the last 5 decades. Houston jealousy and envy does not make a rivalry.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I almost used them but decided on Pittsburgh because Oilers fans would relate. 1st 2 teams that came to mind were Steelers and Niners.
I hated the Niners just as much as I hated the Steelers in the late 70's early 80's
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
It's like Colts fans with us. Because they've beaten us so much, they don't feel any sense of rivalry with us, even though we hate their freaking guts.
But if you talk to a New York Giant fan, an Eagles fan, or a Redskins fan... they HATE the Cowboys.
When you're a "dynasty" team, you have rivalries with other teams that were strong during your dynasty, but if you're a regular team scrabbling to get into the playoffs every year, and missing them plenty, then it's your divisional opponents that you develop that rivalry with.
I think.
But if you talk to a New York Giant fan, an Eagles fan, or a Redskins fan... they HATE the Cowboys.
When you're a "dynasty" team, you have rivalries with other teams that were strong during your dynasty, but if you're a regular team scrabbling to get into the playoffs every year, and missing them plenty, then it's your divisional opponents that you develop that rivalry with.
I think.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Well, I think a holding call should be a 5 yard penalty, but that's not going to happen either.
Pass interference should be 10 yards.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Too much license/encouragement to maul receivers.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
They deserve to be mauled more.
A penalty should be able to totally flip the field on a split-second judgment call.
EDIT: ...should NOT be able to...
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I agree with this thinking, with the way they're calling PI nowadays. For the ticky tack touched him on his elbow, I'd be fine with 5 yards & automatic 1st down.
Now if it's something egregious, like hitting a receiver before the ball got there, then give it to them at the spot of the foul.
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EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Jerry Rice handled it fine......
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There was no 10 yd rule in Rice's time so no he did not.
Now if folks want to say they shouldn't call ticky tacky PI then I'm on board. It should have to potentially compromise the catch not just be incidental contact.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I agree, i just miss the old school football. Safetys laying out WRs over the middle, back then it took guts to catch a pass in the middle of the field.
I think 10 yds and repeat the down - like off-sides does - and if the 10 yds gives the "O" first down, so be it.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
How is it that they deserved to be there? Because some stupid flunky employed by the NFL decades ago couldn't figure out a more rational system that was fair for all teams, and average teams could take advantage of a broken structure? Sorry, but those teams didn't deserve anything other than to sit at home, because they didn't achieve anything above average in their seasons.
The Texans being the best chick out of a group go ugly ducklings is not an accomplishment. Its a form of luck where you are at the right place at the right time. Praising that type of situation is short term thinking where failure is right around the corner. As a long time Texans fan, haven't you seen this short sited ideology train wreck before? I don't get why fans here are so thirsty for the slightest bit of so called success that they're willing to ignore so many glaring parts of our history that led us down this path before. History will repeat itself if the Texans don't take different measures. At least I don't allow myself to get emotional over this team and haven't for years. I still haven't been able to trust in anything that our management does, and their actions still stink of caring about profit margins instead of building a winning franchise long term.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
With unbalanced schedules and a limited number of games you can play, there's really no other way to make it work. Getting rid of divisions, or even conferences, will still leave the 6th, 7th, 10th, 12th teams or whoever is at the bottom of the line you draw, fighting to get in, and going by this season, those teams would be the 8-7 Texans, 8-7 Redskins, 8-7 Falcons, still in the playoff hunt. It's not going to make anything better in that regard. You're still going to have the ugly ducklings in the tourney, or at least fighting to get there.
Plus, you still can't play everybody. There's still going to be this team had to play the Patriots in Foxboro while that team got the Titans at home. This team got the Patriots at home while that team had to go to Foxboro in December. There's really no other way to make it work. Not with 32 teams.
So if you've got a system better than the stupid flunky system, then let's hear it. But don't come back with 15 game seasons, playing everybody in your conference once, never playing the other conference, cutting the number of playoff teams, or anything like that, because that shit isn't any better.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I'm not even sure that you'd have to scrap the divisions completely. I think you could possibly keep them, but have exclusions and exceptions to the rules. Have something in place where every division winner goes to the playoffs, but they've got to be above 500%. If they're 8-8 or lower, then another wild card team should be able to take that playoff spot if they've got the better record. Something just as simple as that make the current system a lot more fair. I really dislike watching 8-8 teams in the playoffs every other year. 9-7 is ugly enough, but its a winning record at least.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well lucky for you it's only happened, what twice? And as has been pointed out both teams won playoff games.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
But with teams having such different schedules, whose to say that the Jets 10-6 is really better than the Texans 8-8. The Jets have beaten ONE team with a winning record this year (NE). Hell, NE is the only 2 games they've played against teams with a winning record. Meanwhile the Texans have played 6 games against winning teams winning 2 of them, and one was the Jets.
So I don't have a problem at all with an 8-8 team winning a division and hosting a playoff game while a 10-6 team goes on the road, or even stays home.
So I don't have a problem at all with an 8-8 team winning a division and hosting a playoff game while a 10-6 team goes on the road, or even stays home.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Both teams were recent and their win didn't change the fact that they had no business being there. The post season is there to reward teams that have achieved throughout the whole season. It is set up for the "best teams." Not the luckiest teams out have three bad teams to be better than.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pretty clearly they weren't just lucky and regular season record isn't the be all end all since they beat the 11-5 Saints and 11-5 Cardinals not just some other lucky 9-7 teams. Looks to me like they not only had business but took care of it.
Personally I don't give a crap if someone with a 7-9,8-8 record reaches the playoffs. I'd just like to play every team in the conference every year. Yeah there is gonna be the "well we had to play this team on the road and they got that team at home" and that's all crap as far as I'm concerned. But the best 6 teams from each conference determined by playing every other team in the conference should be in the playoffs. Not a team that has a better record because they got to beat up on a 2-14 team twice and a 4-12 team twice and split with an 8-8 team.