Should the Redskins change their name?

[Dread-Head]

How so? What he said was 100% correct as teams across the nation at lower levels have already changed names like "Rebels, warriors, chiefs, Indians" ect.. since all of this debate started. It's getting plumb dumb ridiculous.

The original owner was a complete a-hole and a racist and the name of his team IS a racial slur. I think the man should have the right to call his team WHATEVER he chooses and congress shouldn't abridge that; HOWEVER, whether or not they change the name is NOT the issue to me. What pisses ME off is the fact that the organization is so oblivious to those who ARE offended and telling them that they're NOT.

The article sited says that people should be offended by teams with names like Raiders, Pirates and Buccaneers because Pirates were murderers and rapists. Yeah...they were. Calling someone a murderer or a rapist ISN'T the same as calling someone a racial slur. Hence apples and septic tanks. If someone called a team the Cleveland Killers I wouldn't lose any sleep.

 

[Hervoyel]

Those who are offended need to get a life and get over it. You know I feel that way Dread so no point in going around on that again. Still, I think he should go ahead and change it even though I completely think the push to make him do it is BS. It's not worth the fight from a business perspective (IMO) and I fully expect the NFL to eventually convince him to go along. Besides who doesn't want to sell new merchandise to fans while still reserving the right to sell them "throwback" merchandise as well? It's a win-win for the team and the league if they cave in.

Having said that I tend to be a really crappy loser sometimes and if I were Snyder I'd begin shopping my team around the country. Make me change the name and I'll leave it and the city behind. There are still cities without a team and there's always London. I don't care if I'm under lease (teams have broken leases before) or whatever. I'll start over somewhere else and politicians in Washington can sign up for Sunday Ticket if they want to play that game. Trucks in the middle of the night sounds like a plan to me.

I'd like to see him do it just to see how Washington answers that. Call it morbid curiosity on my part. I've never rooted for a team to move but that team in this circumstance would be really fascinating to watch relocate.

 

[HJam72]

Those who are offended need to get a life and get over it. You know I feel that way Dread so no point in going around on that again. Still, I think he should go ahead and change it even though I completely think the push to make him do it is BS. It's not worth the fight from a business perspective (IMO) and I fully expect the NFL to eventually convince him to go along. Besides who doesn't want to sell new merchandise to fans while still reserving the right to sell them "throwback" merchandise as well? It's a win-win for the team and the league if they cave in.

Having said that I tend to be a really crappy loser sometimes and if I were Snyder I'd begin shopping my team around the country. Make me change the name and I'll leave it and the city behind. There are still cities without a team and there's always London. I don't care if I'm under lease (teams have broken leases before) or whatever. I'll start over somewhere else and politicians in Washington can sign up for Sunday Ticket if they want to play that game. Trucks in the middle of the night sounds like a plan to me.

I'd like to see him do it just to see how Washington answers that. Call it morbid curiosity on my part. I've never rooted for a team to move but that team in this circumstance would be really fascinating to watch relocate.

The London Redskins, LOL.

 

[Hervoyel]

The London Redskins, LOL.

No, I'm thinking that it would come as a response to being forced by the league and the government to change the name. Sort of a "Fine, no more Redskins. No more Washington D.C. either" approach.

I know it would never happen. I just think it would serve them right (The government, not the fans)

 

[NCTexan]

So we should just forget the entire past,

I think you're the one advocating forgetting the entire past by saying Redskins is acceptable...

 

[Dread-Head]

Those who are offended need to get a life and get over it. You know I feel that way Dread so no point in going around on that again. Still, I think he should go ahead and change it even though I completely think the push to make him do it is BS. It's not worth the fight from a business perspective (IMO) and I fully expect the NFL to eventually convince him to go along. Besides who doesn't want to sell new merchandise to fans while still reserving the right to sell them "throwback" merchandise as well? It's a win-win for the team and the league if they cave in.

Having said that I tend to be a really crappy loser sometimes and if I were Snyder I'd begin shopping my team around the country. Make me change the name and I'll leave it and the city behind. There are still cities without a team and there's always London. I don't care if I'm under lease (teams have broken leases before) or whatever. I'll start over somewhere else and politicians in Washington can sign up for Sunday Ticket if they want to play that game. Trucks in the middle of the night sounds like a plan to me.

I'd like to see him do it just to see how Washington answers that. Call it morbid curiosity on my part. I've never rooted for a team to move but that team in this circumstance would be really fascinating to watch relocate.

Again, I don't think Congress should have the right to tell the man to change the name. I don't think the NFL should be able to FORCE them to do so. I DO however think they need to change it, but it should be THEIR choices. If they want to use a racial slur as their team name that is their right, but I as someone who is a descendant of blacks and indians have the right to be offended, NOT to watch their games, NOT to purchase their merchandise or to say anything complimentary of Snyder.

 

[Dan B.]

There’s a lot of controversy over whether Dietz was actually a Native American. Witten’s article doesn’t resolve that.

But it does refute the team’s contention that the name was selected to celebrate Dietz.

The proof is in a July 6, 1933, edition of the Hartford Courant, which Witten unearthed after the sports Web site MMQB tipped him off about it.

The edition includes a short Associated Press dispatch quoting Marshall saying: “The fact that we have in our head coach, Lone Star Dietz, an Indian, together with several Indian players, has not, as may be suspected, inspired me to select the name Redskins.”

Instead, Marshall explains, he gave up “Braves” to avoid confusion with a Boston professional baseball team of the same name. He apparently picked the Redskins name so he could keep the existing Native American logo.

Marshall himself says he changed the team name not to honor the coach, but to differentiate the brand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ad32e8-e698-11e3-afc6-a1dd9407abcf_story.html

 

[ObsiWan]

#RedskinsPride Twitter campaign not producing the results the Redskins were hoping for...

Link (CBS Sports)
Link2 (ESPN)

Washington Redskins ✔ @Redskins Follow
Tweet @SenatorReid to show your #RedskinsPride and tell him what the team means to you.
1:54 PM - 29 May 2014

Some responses....

steve coy @stevecoy Follow .@Redskins boy, good thing the systematic slaughter of indigenous people was managed better than this twitter account! #redskinspride

Ang K @ankhela Follow
So great watching the complete failure of #RedskinsPride. Dumbest PR move in a long time. Both that & #RedskinPride. Dumb team. #GoGiants
4:42 PM - 29 May 2014

I think Ang might be a bit biased against the Redskins anyway

Brandon Russell @brandon_russell Follow What a clown show. I hate my team. RT “@Redskins: Tweet @SenatorReid to show your #RedskinsPride and tell him what the team means to you.”
2:15 PM - 29 May 2014

 

[Byrds Man]

If I were walking down the street and saw a native american on the other side of the street and yelled " Hey redskin! " that would be a racial slur. But if I yell the same thing in a football stadium it's OK? That makes no sense and I sincerely hope that Mr. Snyder does the right thing and let's the Washington fans pick a new name for the team. For those who are using history and tradition as an excuse for keeping the current name, I would respectfully assert that there are some traditions that need to be changed.

 

[Texecutioner]

I really could care less about him changing the name. I hope that he doesn't, because I know that team as the Redskins. I'ver never taken an offensive connotation to it or thought of the name as being something to offend anyone. Actually more as a name to honor the mystique of native Americans. It's a shame that people can't see it that way. I'm not saying that I'm right or wrong, but I'm entitled to that opinion just like anyone else is. Snyder isn't aiming to offend any groups and neither has any upper level VP in that front office. It's always about context, but no one ever seems to care about context. Either way, I hope that the name never changes.

 

[kingtexan]

If everyone who ever did anything in the name of "political correctness" were executed, the world would be a much better place. But, guess that isn't the PC way to think ...

 

[Brandon420tx]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...08a964-f058-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html

-sigh- They should just start changing their names to other "offensive" things at this point. But just slightly so people still know they were the Redskins.

Like:
Washington RedWoods (to also offend the California people)
Washington Apple Skins
Washington Red Epidermises
Washington Pink Skins (during October, not as offensive)
Washington Corrupt Politicians
Washington Engines (think about it)

I'll stop before I actually do offend someone, but you get the idea

 

[Thorn]

I like being male and white. It makes it so much easier to judge other folks shortcomings since I obviously don't have any.

 

[ObsiWan]

If everyone who ever did anything in the name of "political correctness" were executed, the world would be a much better place. But, guess that isn't the PC way to think ...

Not really.

What is called political correctness used to be just plain old, everyday, good manners and common decency. I mean it was just good manners to avoid insulting folks you don't even know for no good reason.

At least that's the way I was raised.

Maybe you were raised differently.

 

[ObsiWan]

I like being male and white. It makes it so much easier to judge other folks shortcomings since I obviously don't have any.

You're wrong.
Just like these folks.

 

[False Start]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...08a964-f058-11e3-bf76-447a5df6411f_story.html

-sigh- They should just start changing their names to other "offensive" things at this point. But just slightly so people still know they were the Redskins.

Like:
Washington RedWoods (to also offend the California people)
Washington Apple Skins
Washington Red Epidermises
Washington Pink Skins (during October, not as offensive)
Washington Corrupt Politicians
Washington Engines (think about it)

I'll stop before I actually do offend someone, but you get the idea

I just cant believe they are gonna run that commercial, lame. :wadepalm:

 

[Thorn]

You're wrong.
Just like these folks.

* heavy sigh *

I should learn to be more direct with my criticism I guess, and not so nebulous.

 

[Double Barrel]

Washington RedWoods (to also offend the California people)
Washington Apple Skins
Washington Red Epidermises
Washington Pink Skins (during October, not as offensive)
Washington Corrupt Politicians
Washington Engines (think about it)

Easiest solution:

And their fans would just keep on keeping on:

 

[kingtexan]

Not really.

What is called political correctness used to be just plain old, everyday, good manners and common decency. I mean it was just good manners to avoid insulting folks you don't even know for no good reason.

At least that's the way I was raised.

Maybe you were raised differently.

To intentionally insult someone is one thing. But to be afraid to say anything at all, or ever voice an opinion, because you "might" insult someone ... that is what we have become. Cant stand up for yourself, cant disagree, just go along with everyone else or feel the wrath of the masses.

 

[False Start]

To intentionally insult someone is one thing. But to be afraid to say anything at all, or ever voice an opinion, because you "might" insult someone ... that is what we have become. Cant stand up for yourself, cant disagree, just go along with everyone else or feel the wrath of the masses.

Exactly!

 

[ObsiWan]

To intentionally insult someone is one thing. But to be afraid to say anything at all, or ever voice an opinion, because you "might" insult someone ... that is what we have become. Cant stand up for yourself, cant disagree, just go along with everyone else or feel the wrath of the masses.

Well I doubt PC really means a person cannot stand up for themselves. If I called you - or anyone else - something they really objected to, I doubt that you've hesitate for a moment in getting me straight.

We need to grow up out of the "can't disagree" thing. We'll never progress as a civilization if we can't voice and work through our differences. And if someone or some group respectfully asks "Hey I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't call me that". Why is that so hard to do?

 

[Double Barrel]

To intentionally insult someone is one thing. But to be afraid to say anything at all, or ever voice an opinion, because you "might" insult someone ... that is what we have become. Cant stand up for yourself, cant disagree, just go along with everyone else or feel the wrath of the masses.

[IMGwidthsize=600]http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-sufficiently-advanced-political-correctness-is-indistinguishable-from-sarcasm-erik-naggum-255325.jpg[/IMG]

 

[infantrycak]

Not really.

What is called political correctness used to be just plain old, everyday, good manners and common decency. I mean it was just good manners to avoid insulting folks you don't even know for no good reason.

At least that's the way I was raised.

Maybe you were raised differently.

Yup, and the whining about PC has gotten ridiculous.

 

[htownfan32]

Yup, and the whining about PC has gotten ridiculous.

It's also usually accompanied by the equally ridiculous "good ole days" hand wringing.

 

[infantrycak]

It's also usually accompanied by the equally ridiculous "good ole days" hand wringing.

"Back in the good ol' days you people knew better than to be offended."

 

[Hookem Horns]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o1KNpOFudOY

I saw this is airing tonight in many major cities during the NBA Finals.

Edit, didn't open up that previous link with this.

Anyway, I have made my opinion known on this. If Redskins is OK then the Confederate flag should be OK and schools like Ole Miss, Baytown Lee, etc should bring it back because it's meant to honor southern heritage and those men who lost their lives defending their homes during the War Between the States.

Again this is if we shouldn't care that a race of people sees it another way because I personally am not offended by the Confederate flag.

 

[toronto]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o1KNpOFudOY

I saw this is airing tonight in many major cities during the NBA Finals.

Edit, didn't open up that previous link with this.

Anyway, I have made my opinion known on this. If Redskins is OK then the Confederate flag should be OK and schools like Ole Miss, Baytown Lee, etc should bring it back because it's meant to honor southern heritage and those men who lost their lives defending their homes during the War Between the States.

Again this is if we shouldn't care that a race of people sees it another way because who are they to be offended?

Have to give them credit, very well done. Too long IMO but good ad.

 

[Byrds Man]

Great commercial! Sums it up very well.
BTW full disclosure: my ancestry includes Shawnee.

 

[TEXANRED]

I like being male and white. It makes it so much easier to judge other folks shortcomings since I obviously don't have any.

did you just say being Native American is a short coming?

 

[ObsiWan]

did you just say being Native American is a short coming?

No, no... not at all.
Thorn said he can readily spot other folks' shortcomings since he's had so many years of experience dealing with all those he has


...or words to that effect....



for the record, so can I. And for the same reason(s).

 

[htownfan32]

No, no... not at all.
Thorn said he can readily spot other folks' shortcomings since he's had so many years of experience dealing with all those he has


...or words to that effect....

But Thorn says he has NO shortcomings. He's always right and we're always wrong!

Just messing with ya, Thorn.

 

[Thorn]

I am as perfect as any alien being from another planet can be. And I'm retired as of this Friday.

I will now be able to sit at home, smoking pot, and ponder upon my perfection all day long. And reflect upon other's faults as well.

 

[kingtexan]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o1KNpOFudOY

I saw this is airing tonight in many major cities during the NBA Finals.

Edit, didn't open up that previous link with this.

Anyway, I have made my opinion known on this. If Redskins is OK then the Confederate flag should be OK and schools like Ole Miss, Baytown Lee, etc should bring it back because it's meant to honor southern heritage and those men who lost their lives defending their homes during the War Between the States.

Again this is if we shouldn't care that a race of people sees it another way because I personally am not offended by the Confederate flag.

The Confederate flag should be ok.

The Civil War wasn't fought over slavery, although the only reason that the slave owner himself Abe Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation was to win it. Those colors on that flag have nothing to do with racism or slavery.

 

[Thorn]

The Confederate flag should be ok.

The Civil War wasn't fought over slavery, although the only reason that the slave owner himself Abe Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation was to win it. Those colors on that flag have nothing to do with racism or slavery.

One of the two brain cells you have left is shorting out. I'd get that checked if I was you.

 

[Cerberus]

With all the talk of the Redskins changing their name, and me being born and raised in the D.C. area in a family full of 'Skins fans, I bought some Redskin gear today. The first time ever! And while I agree the name is racist, I apparently felt a greater need to buy some of their gear before Snyder is made to change the name. I'll be storing it next to my 50th Anniversary T-Shirts for the Raiders. Maybe one day they'll go along with my Washington Senator and Seattle Pilot baseball cards.

 

[ObsiWan]

I am as perfect as any alien being from another planet can be. And I'm retired as of this Friday.

I will now be able to sit at home, smoking pot, and ponder upon my perfection all day long. And reflect upon other's faults as well.

You're not going back home?

The plans for planetary rendezvous fell out of your pocket...

 

[Playoffs]

ThinkProgress ‏@thinkprogress

U.S. Patent Office cancels trademark for Redskins because the name is “disparaging to Native Americans” http://thkpr.gs/1r6Y9ps

Mina Kimes ‏@minakimes

Good primer on the Redskins trademark battle (and what might happen next) http://usat.ly/SfYolW

MarkMaske ‏@MarkMaske

Daniel Snyder declined to comment on the ruling in the Redskins name case as he left the practice field today at the team's mincamp.

Bruce Allen when asked whether the Redskins can continue to use their name: "Did you read it?... We're fine. We're fine."

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet

#Redskins trademark attorney Bob Raskopf said they’’ll appeal the ruling. “We are confident we will prevail once again”

#Redskins: “Evidence in the current claim is virtually identical to the evidence a federal judge decided was insufficient more 10 years ago”

 

[Dread-Head]

The Confederate flag should be ok.

The Civil War wasn't fought over slavery, although the only reason that the slave owner himself Abe Lincoln made the Emancipation Proclamation was to win it. Those colors on that flag have nothing to do with racism or slavery.

Most people don't know what the confederate flag looked like. By "Confederate Flag" I mean the one that flew over Richmond not the one that was on the battle field with Lee's army of Northern Virginia. The FORMER in my opinion IS a symbol of racism and oppression the later is merely the banner of some guys who had their asses handed to them in this nation's bloodiest conflict. It can be seen as a symbol for those whose families fought for that cause and that is their their right; however, the fact that the Ku Klux Klan adopted the flag is why so many people of color loathe it.

The 3/5th compromise effectively said that slave states received congressional representation based on the number of slaves one could purchase. In other words a wealthy man with lots of land could BUY a large number of people and 3/5ths of that number would be added into his state's census and he would have in fact BOUGHT a congressional seat.
We can quibble about the balance of power and how at the end of the day it was industrialists versus agrarians but the fact of the matter remains, agrarians could PURCHASE human beigns to bolster their representation in congress against the industrialists and that was a HUGE bone of contention. Even if the North didn't make ANY gestures towards getting rid of slavery (which they did at the end of the war out of PURE SPITE) had they merely stopped awarding congressional representation based on slave populations the war would have happened anyway.

 

[disaacks3]

ThinkProgress ‏@thinkprogress
U.S. Patent Office cancels trademark for Redskins because the name is “disparaging to Native Americans” http://thkpr.gs/1r6Y9ps

Mina Kimes ‏@minakimes

Hmm - So, Redskins is out but these are in? http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield

HILLBILLY DISTILLERY

FIGGAS OVER NIGGAS

TROPHY ***** (beatch)

RUG MUNCHER

REDNECKPECKERWOOD

ROUNDEYES

AUTHENTIC WHITE TRASH

KRAUT KAP

DAGO SWAGG

Nope, none of these could possibly offend.

 

[htownfan32]

Hmm - So, Redskins is out but these are in? http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield

Nope, none of these could possibly offend.

I don't like the name but I agree that the PTO should not show inconsistency if it rules this way. Also leery of gov't action to influence a name change but I'm also wondering if there are any lawyers willing to enlighten (Cak?) what effect this would have on the team name.

 

[StarStruck]

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet #Redskins trademark attorney Bob Raskopf said they’’ll appeal the ruling. “We are confident we will prevail once again”

If they appeal, is it legal to sell bootleg merchandise while the process is going on?

 

[Dan B.]

Hmm - So, Redskins is out but these are in? http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield

Nope, none of these could possibly offend.

That link is broken.

Some of those do not yet have trademarks, by the way. They are pending approval. And that's not a guarantee. The status for Figgas over Niggas is Non Final Action -- Mailed. This means the examiner has found issues with the application and outlining them in written form. Such issues can range from simple changes to the application to outright refusals for various reasons.

 

[disaacks3]

That link is broken.

Some of those do not yet have trademarks, by the way. They are pending approval. And that's not a guarantee. The status for Figgas over Niggas is Non Final Action -- Mailed. This means the examiner has found issues with the application and outlining them in written form. Such issues can range from simple changes to the application to outright refusals for various reasons.

Meh - Shows live on the Patent Office Site - that's what I went with. If any of them are approved and not yet revoked, there's a double-standard in play.

Amusingly, I went back and determined that REDNECKPECKERWOOD is registered to someone in the Woodlands.

 

[Double Barrel]

Hmm - So, Redskins is out but these are in? http://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield

Nope, none of these could possibly offend.

From my perspective, it seems like this is beyond simply 'being offended'.

It concerns a sordid history of indigenous peoples who were systematically slaughtered by the U.S. government through various genocidal policies in order to dishonor all treaties to steal and exploit their lands.

The term speaks to a very ugly past and racial attitudes in this country for many people.

But, just my two cents, fwiw.

 

[EllisUnit]

Both my grandparents were full blooded indian, so my dad was full blooded my mother was white/mutt. So that makes me half.

Should the redskins change their names ? I dont think so, everything in the world could offend one person. People these days are to soft and get their feelings hurt over nothing IMO.

 

[Playoffs]

 

[Marshall]

No.

 

[Hookem Horns]

Both my grandparents were full blooded indian, so my dad was full blooded my mother was white/mutt. So that makes me half.

Should the redskins change their names ? I dont think so, everything in the world could offend one person. People these days are to soft and get their feelings hurt over nothing IMO.

So I guess the bottom line here is we only have to be super sensitive when it comes to black Americans. If this were about their race the name would have been changed years ago.

BTW, being technically half NA doesn't really put you in their shoes. Now if you were posting from a reservation in North Dakota and dealing with racial tension daily for being Indian that would be another story.

 

[Dread-Head]

As the descendant of African slaves, the French bastards who owned them and the Indians from whom they stole the land in the first place...I don't like ANYBODY! I aint too crazy about my DAMN self!

 

[eriadoc]

BTW, being technically half NA doesn't really put you in their shoes. Now if you were posting from a reservation in North Dakota and dealing with racial tension daily for being Indian that would be another story.

So the one drop rule only applies to blacks.