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You act like you've seen this movie beforeBecause the poll is negative on this guy, he will make the team and sit on the bench for two years while we get even more pissed about him being on the team. Then in his 3rd year he'll come totally alive and become fantastic and we then proceed to lose him in free agency. After which we'll all be going "I told you so" about what a talent we let go.
You act like you've seen this movie before
For every single one of these guys no matter who they are, until they are actually playing, no one, not even those who drafted him, knows what he'll become.This guy has terrible press but great tape. Which one you gonna believe ? What you read in the paper or what you see on the field ?
Welker has also had the benefit of playing with quite a few future HOF QBs not many WRs in NFL history can say that. So while Welker isn't bad. He has benefited from amazing QB play his entire career.O'Brien knows what he's looking for in the Welker role, so many draft grades may not even apply here. Remember, Welker wasn't even drafted.
People like to bring this up because he was inherited by Manning immediately following his time with Brady, but you conveniently forget that Welker busted his ass playing in the wastelands of the Miami Dolphins with (I can't even begin to guess who the QB at the time was)Welker has also had the benefit of playing with quite a few future HOF QBs not many WRs in NFL history can say that. So while Welker isn't bad. He has benefited from amazing QB play his entire career.
His entire career where he has been of note has been with Brady and Manning.So not really "quite a few HOF QBs" lets not make it sound like his entire career was with Brady
I think the point is that Bellichick was able to identify the talent despite the production. Perhaps we'll find our diamond in the rough.His entire career where he has been of note has been with Brady and Manning.
While in Miami in six meetings with the Pats he had 1 decent game receiving when backup Harrington played. He was a bubble guy in Miami which was their poor judgment but still true.
Heck before Miami he didn't even make the roster in San Diego.
Exactly that's my point, Welker has had QBs who make most anyone look good most of his career. Imagine what AJ could of done if that had been him.His entire career where he has been of note has been with Brady and Manning.
While in Miami in six meetings with the Pats he had 1 decent game receiving when backup Harrington played. He was a bubble guy in Miami which was their poor judgment but still true.
Heck before Miami he didn't even make the roster in San Diego.
^^^^what is with rick smith's obsession with undersized and SLOW wide receivers???????
we need a burner damnit!!!
Didn't this kid run a 4.5 forty?What's with () folks calling 4.4 slow?
Go become Raiders fans. Stop watches have worked out so well for them.
The comment I quoted was on Strong and Hopkins.Didn't this kid run a 4.5 forty?
Both are good but not difference makers. Fast but not real fast. Not sudden in and out of their breaks. Sorry for the differing opinions. Of course on the positive side of things both Strong/Nuk are very Brandon LaFell like and he was good enough to start on a SB winner.The comment I quoted was on Strong and Hopkins.
Nothing to be sorry about with a philosophical difference discussion. I've said I like speed as much as the next guy but as part of the equation. You like speed for speed.Both are good but not difference makers. Fast but not real fast. Not sudden in and out of their breaks. Sorry for the differing opinions. Of course on the positive side of things both Strong/Nuk are very Brandon LaFell like and he was good enough to start on a SB winner.
There is a small cadre of posters that can't have a discussion beyond that level, regardless if the subject is the draft or the quality of the NRG hot dogs. Unfortunately they are also power posters.But I'd rather have this kind of discussion than "AJ is slow because McNair is cheap and Smith sucks at the draft" or "we'd have someone who can run 4.1 is only the Texans had picked someone with no character who was rising up "the" charts while trading down to get 10 7th round draft picks."
Nothing to be sorry about with a philosophical difference discussion. I've said I like speed as much as the next guy but as part of the equation. You like speed for speed.
Frankly I think you speed freaks have an amazing overlap with dradtniks - both caught up in the biggest baddest new toy on paper.
I've also observed over the years that some fans assume a lot of **** (everyone coming off injury is slower, everyone gets slower every year until they are combine OL speed at 30) repeat it often enough and it becomes true regardless of reality. Then they "observe" exactly what they predicted on game day. AJ could blow by a 4.4 CB last year, get overthrown and folks like you say - see he's slow.
But I'd rather have this kind of discussion than "AJ is slow because McNair is cheap and Smith sucks at the draft" or "we'd have someone who can run 4.1 is only the Texans had picked someone with no character who was rising up "the" charts while trading down to get 10 7th round draft picks."
I don't think they neglected speed . Coates who folks are talking about being a burner ran a 4.43 and Strong ran a 4.44 . We drafted Keo one year late and he was a 4.7 safety . This year we picked a 4.4 LB .Who are the difference makers in this draft? McKinney has the best chance to be a difference make and I hope I'm wrong about Strong who couldn't even make it through a full college season without missing games due to concussions. That doesn't bode well for the future, IMHO and to think they traded up for him.
I've always thought that speed kills and not just at the WR position, obiviously Rick disagrees with my philosophy, hopefully he's right, so far I would have to say the jury is out on that.
Who are the difference makers in this draft IYO?I don't think they neglected speed . Coates who folks are talking about being a burner ran a 4.43 and Strong ran a 4.44 . We drafted Keo one year late and he was a 4.7 safety . This year we picked a 4.4 LB .
The only concussion I'm aware of is his November 2014 event.Who are the difference makers in this draft? McKinney has the best chance to be a difference make and I hope I'm wrong about Strong who couldn't even make it through a full college season without missing games due to concussions. That doesn't bode well for the future, IMHO and to think they traded up for him.
I've always thought that speed kills and not just at the WR position, obiviously Rick disagrees with my philosophy, hopefully he's right, so far I would have to say the jury is out on that.
That's the concussion that cost him games. If that's the Ore St. game.The only concussion I'm aware of is his November 2014 event.
I don't know about "people" calling him a burner. I think he looks faster. I'm calling him a burner. Dude looks dynamic to me.I don't think they neglected speed . Coates who folks are talking about being a burner ran a 4.43 and Strong ran a 4.44 . We drafted Keo one year late and he was a 4.7 safety . This year we picked a 4.4 LB .
I referring to Strong and yes I do have friends in the Pheonix/Tuscon areas.Steelbtexan is on the street in Michigan. He hears all the words
People act like a 5th round selection is going to make or break our organization. IT'S THE 5TH ROUND. Players picked lower than 3rd-4th round are going to be 'incomplete' players. And if you're going to take a risk, better to do it in the 5th round than the earlier rounds. This should not be a surprise to anyone.Agreed. And over a 5th round pick.
some of these knees jerk so fast it's a wonder they still have intact knee ligments
We need to start hitting on some of these late round picks, at least get solid starters... like Crick (4th round I think). But we can't keep pissing in the wind here.People act like a 5th round selection is going to make or break our organization. IT'S THE 5TH ROUND. Players picked lower than 3rd-4th round are going to be 'incomplete' players. And if you're going to take a risk, better to do it in the 5th round than the earlier rounds. This should not be a surprise to anyone.
Being in this thread messed me up. Still my point remains, I don't place much value in the "word on the street". I'd rather have some documented infoI referring to Strong and yes I do have friends in the Pheonix/Tuscon areas.
[imgwidthsize=300]http://funday24.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Funny-cards-Someecards-new-4.jpg[/IMG]As a side note, mu UK iPad constantly wants to change Mumphery to "mum puberty"
I'm probably in the same boat as you when it comes to speed, it's just a part of the equation. But, something I haven't seen mentioned in this discussion is the other side of that equation, the QB! When we had a "noodle armed" QB like Schaub speed didn't matter as much in the long game because Matt would more than likely under throw the WR, especially in his last few years when his arm seemed to be getting weaker and weaker. Now, with Mallet and Savage (Not sure about Hoyer's arm strength.) speed could be a great weapon for the long game and maybe this is what a lot of fans (speed-freaks) were hoping for with a pick like a Dorsett. It's not that Nuk or Strong won't be able to catch the long ball that Mallet or Savage throw it's just not "the biggest baddest new toy on paper" in their eyes. They want the Ferrari not the Mustang!Nothing to be sorry about with a philosophical difference discussion. I've said I like speed as much as the next guy but as part of the equation. You like speed for speed.
Frankly I think you speed freaks have an amazing overlap with dradtniks - both caught up in the biggest baddest new toy on paper.
I've also observed over the years that some fans assume a lot of **** (everyone coming off injury is slower, everyone gets slower every year until they are combine OL speed at 30) repeat it often enough and it becomes true regardless of reality. Then they "observe" exactly what they predicted on game day. AJ could blow by a 4.4 CB last year, get overthrown and folks like you say - see he's slow.
But I'd rather have this kind of discussion than "AJ is slow because McNair is cheap and Smith sucks at the draft" or "we'd have someone who can run 4.1 is only the Texans had picked someone with no character who was rising up "the" charts while trading down to get 10 7th round draft picks."
You know what man those are very much my own sentiments ? So I'm puzzledSeemed strange to grab a 2nd WR in this draft. Could have grabbed a nice Center or tackle with this pick.
I am not giving the player a thumbs down, but I am giving the position choice a thumbs down.
No doubt we need to make some of these later round picks count. I guess what I'm trying to say is that later round picks have question marks, that's the reason they were drafted later.We need to start hitting on some of these late round picks, at least get solid starters... like Crick (4th round I think). But we can't keep pissing in the wind here.
It's better for our team if we can get a starter out of these rounds every now & again (yes, Arian Foster counts).
This should be a clue that Cal/Eick are still in charge of the draft.You know what man those are very much my own sentiments ? So I'm puzzled
because the Texans have talked so much about improving team speed and in particularly at WR. So then they go use a pick on a receiver who is by most accounts neither fast or quick/twichy. And he is truly an under the radar prospect 'cause word is we are the one and only team to work out Mumphery. Looks like it's just gonna have to be a 'in Billy we trust" pick.
How so ?This should be a clue that Cal/Eick are still in charge of the draft.
Obviously because he hates the picks and thinks only those two would make such bad choices.How so ?
Maybe they are looking for a different kind of speed. Foster is one example of a player that doesn't look fast, but when you see him on the field, he can outrun many defenders.You know what man those are very much my own sentiments ? So I'm puzzled
because the Texans have talked so much about improving team speed and in particularly at WR. So then they go use a pick on a receiver who is by most accounts neither fast or quick/twichy. And he is truly an under the radar prospect 'cause word is we are the one and only team to work out Mumphery. Looks like it's just gonna have to be a 'in Billy we trust" pick.
Quicker than fast is the way I've heard it described. Can he make a subtle move that gives him the leverage to break a tackle? The One Cut back is another description with a similar description though we are probably talking about facing DBs and LBs with similar descriptions.Maybe they are looking for a different kind of speed. Foster is one example of a player that doesn't look fast, but when you see him on the field, he can outrun many defenders.
He ran a 4.69 at the combine.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33673&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB
Maybe they liked the way Mumphery ran his routes.
I think when OB talked about increasing team speed, most of us wanted a burner at WR to stretch the field, and a DB that could run with Hilton. We didn't get that burner on either side of the field, but I'm not convinced that a 4.3 guy that doesn't necessarily play to that speed is much more effective than a 4.4 guy that can catch the contested ball.Maybe they are looking for a different kind of speed. Foster is one example of a player that doesn't look fast, but when you see him on the field, he can outrun many defenders.
He ran a 4.69 at the combine.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=33673&draftyear=2009&genpos=RB
Maybe they liked the way Mumphery ran his routes.
Steve Tasker
Bill Bates
Larry Izzo
Are a few I can think of.
(is Porky's quote showing in this post for y'all? I'm not seeing it in the post on Tapatalk, but when I try to edit, the quote is there. Weird)