Save us Savage!!!!!!!

[Carr Bombed]

You only tag him and bring him back if u can't get at least a 2nd for him. Bringing him back for 20 + million off the strength of 1 season is shortsighted. Watson, Foreman, Nuk, Fuller and a young stud LT taken in the 1st or 2nd next year with a pick we could get potentially get for Savage is the future.

Go ahead and get the future started.

If Savage has a breakout season how do you know the future isn't now and by trading him away that you're not trading away the future? Teams don't trade away QBs that have years like that. I know Brees was allowed to go, but he also just wrecked his shoulder too. There was absolutely nothing that Watson did during the preseason that showed me anything more than he's a work in progress, so until he actually looks and performs like he's the future, I wouldn't part ways with a QB coming off a top 10 year. I'd gladly give him one more look and see what he could do.

 

[Mr teX]

If Savage has a breakout season how do you know the future isn't now and by trading him away that you're not trading away the future? Teams don't trade away QBs that have years like that. I know Brees was allowed to go, but he also just wrecked his shoulder too. There was absolutely nothing that Watson did during the preseason that showed me anything more than he's a work in progress, so until he actually looks and performs like he's the future, I wouldn't part ways with a QB coming off a top 10 year. I'd gladly give him one more look and see what he could do.

That's just it. The road leads to the same place no matter what. All we've done is just prolong the inevitable decision of having to decide when the future wil begin.

Ok, so what if Savage does it again then what? You either: tag him again in which case he won't be happy...or you go ahead and offer him a ridiculous contract when he's around 30 years old that he likely won't finish out or live up to.....in which case we most likely get stuck with a **** ton of it counting against our cap that'll hurt us later.

Meanwhile Watson will be on the bench rotting away for 2-3 years without us still not really knowing what we have in him......just like we did with Savage.

 

[Hervoyel]

I think upon a repeat performance in the top ten I'd sign Savage to a long term contract and then start looking for suitors for Watson. I'd do that with the expectation that I could most likely get a 1 or a pair of 2's for him from somebody provided he hasn't **** the bed in public up until that point.

Savage at that point will be 29 years old going into the 2019 season. Now, the "But he'll be 30!" panic sets in but at that point you got 2 great seasons in the bag and your expectations should be for at least another 4-6 of those.

When Savage is 29 guys like Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers will be 34 and still playing. Matt Ryan will be 33. Most importantly Savage's "peers" will be as follows: Bradford-30, Stafford-30, Cousins-30, Wilson-29, Newton-29, Luck-28, Carr-27, Mariota-24.

Now some of those ages might be off one direction or the other depending on what time of year their birthdays fall but Savage is right in the there with guys you would certainly expect to have a good amount of time left in football barring injury.

If Savage could string together a pair of 4,000 yard seasons with 25 or so TD's and 10 or so INT's and all the rest of the stats that were originally cited as a "successful season" then I think walking away from that is the kind of dumb ass move that I would just hate to see the Texans make.

Of course this is the NFL and one minute you think you got your franchise QB and the next he's not back from shoulder surgery for the opener and you're starting to wonder how bad things really are. There's no telling what could happen once you make that decision. Teams can do everything right and make informed decisions and still come up empty handed. Happens all the time (and more often than that in Cleveland).

 

[steelbtexan]

That's just it. The road leads to the same place no matter what. All we've done is just prolong the inevitable decision of having to decide when the future wil begin.

Ok, so what if Savage does it again then what? You either: tag him again in which case he won't be happy...or you go ahead and offer him a ridiculous contract when he's around 30 years old that he likely won't finish out or live up to.....in which case we most likely get stuck with a **** ton of it counting against our cap that'll hurt us later.

Meanwhile Watson will be on the bench rotting away for 2-3 years without us still not really knowing what we have in him......just like we did with Savage.

Brilliance isn't it.

I doubt it works out this way, even if Savage is really good.

Because one way or the other BOB will gone after this yr.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think upon a repeat performance in the top ten I'd sign Savage to a long term contract and then start looking for suitors for Watson. I'd do that with the expectation that I could most likely get a 1 or a pair of 2's for him from somebody provided he hasn't **** the bed in public up until that point.

Savage at that point will be 29 years old going into the 2019 season. Now, the "But he'll be 30!" panic sets in but at that point you got 2 great seasons in the bag and your expectations should be for at least another 4-6 of those.

When Savage is 29 guys like Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers will be 34 and still playing. Matt Ryan will be 33. Most importantly Savage's "peers" will be as follows: Bradford-30, Stafford-30, Cousins-30, Wilson-29, Newton-29, Luck-28, Carr-27, Mariota-24.

Now some of those ages might be off one direction or the other depending on what time of year their birthdays fall but Savage is right in the there with guys you would certainly expect to have a good amount of time left in football barring injury.

If Savage could string together a pair of 4,000 yard seasons with 25 or so TD's and 10 or so INT's and all the rest of the stats that were originally cited as a "successful season" then I think walking away from that is the kind of dumb ass move that I would just hate to see the Texans make.

Of course this is the NFL and one minute you think you got your franchise QB and the next he's not back from shoulder surgery for the opener and you're starting to wonder how bad things really are. There's no telling what could happen once you make that decision. Teams can do everything right and make informed decisions and still come up empty handed. Happens all the time (and more often than that in Cleveland).

People citing Savage age are just looking for reasons to get rid of him IF he puts up those kinds of numbers.

Yes the Texans are stupid enough to make this kind of move even if Savage plays really well this season.

 

[DocBar]

I think upon a repeat performance in the top ten I'd sign Savage to a long term contract and then start looking for suitors for Watson. I'd do that with the expectation that I could most likely get a 1 or a pair of 2's for him from somebody provided he hasn't **** the bed in public up until that point.

Savage at that point will be 29 years old going into the 2019 season. Now, the "But he'll be 30!" panic sets in but at that point you got 2 great seasons in the bag and your expectations should be for at least another 4-6 of those.

When Savage is 29 guys like Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers will be 34 and still playing. Matt Ryan will be 33. Most importantly Savage's "peers" will be as follows: Bradford-30, Stafford-30, Cousins-30, Wilson-29, Newton-29, Luck-28, Carr-27, Mariota-24.

Now some of those ages might be off one direction or the other depending on what time of year their birthdays fall but Savage is right in the there with guys you would certainly expect to have a good amount of time left in football barring injury.

If Savage could string together a pair of 4,000 yard seasons with 25 or so TD's and 10 or so INT's and all the rest of the stats that were originally cited as a "successful season" then I think walking away from that is the kind of dumb ass move that I would just hate to see the Texans make.

Of course this is the NFL and one minute you think you got your franchise QB and the next he's not back from shoulder surgery for the opener and you're starting to wonder how bad things really are. There's no telling what could happen once you make that decision. Teams can do everything right and make informed decisions and still come up empty handed. Happens all the time (and more often than that in Cleveland).

Savage doesn't have the wear and tear that those other guys have, either.

 

[gafftop]

Did they move the team to California today because this thread has gone to LaLa land.
1. Savage hasn't thrown as many passes in real games as many college QB's.
2. With this OL Savage is not mobile enough to be successful.
3. I don't think Savage is durable enough to be an NFL QB.
4. To indecisive or lack of confidence or inability to read defense.....not good for success.
Just my opinion.
I sure hope the plan is to bring back Weeden later because I don't want Watson to be forced to play when Savage goes down.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Did they move the team to California today because this thread has gone to LaLa land.
1. Savage hasn't thrown as many passes in real games as many college QB's.
2. With this OL Savage is not mobile enough to be successful.
3. I don't think Savage is durable enough to be an NFL QB.
4. To indecisive or lack of confidence or inability to read defense.....not good for success.
Just my opinion.
I sure hope the plan is to bring back Weeden later because I don't want Watson to be forced to play when Savage goes down.

No this is not LaLa land.. did you not read the OP that posed this question..especially the last paragraph?

Hypothetical question - What if Savage stays healthy and plays well this season?

Lets say 4000+ YDs, 25+ TDs, +/-10 INTs, +/-65% CP, which would make him a top 10 QB; not a MVP candidate, but much better than we have had and better than the odds say you will get from a 1st round QB (less than 1 in 3 1st round QBs become a top 10 QB).

Do we pay Savage a 20+ M/YR contract (meaning we would likely not be able to sign Clowney), franchise tag Savage at +/-$22M and delay decision, or let Savage go and risk taking a chance that Watson beats the odds and becomes a quality starter the following season?

With good QB play so hard to find, I would franchise tag Savage and hold off on offering Clowney a long term contract until after his 5th year option, thus delaying the decision a season. If both stayed healthy and played well I would give Savage the long term contract. If either are injured or play poorly the decision is easy.

Please don't reply with your absolute certainty that this couldn't happen, I am aware the odds are not in Savages favor, just curious what most think we should do if it does happen. Seems like most fans are dead set on Watson being the future and Savage just being a place holder, regardless of how Savage performs this season.
Either way Rick Smith will probably be blamed for doing the wrong thing 3 years down the road

People are simply answering his hypothetical question, that's all.

 

[gafftop]

Okay I guess I am just a little upset that after all the years with BOB the QB guru, Savage is the best we have on the roster.

 

[TexansBull]

Aaron Wilson‏@AaronWilson_NFL 11m11 minutes ago

Tom Savage on QBs coach Sean Ryan: 'i can't say enough about Sean and what he's done for the quarterback room. He's simplified it'

Holy Smokes! Our complicated offense went to simple offense! Give that man a raise!

 

[OptimisticTexan]

You only tag him and bring him back if u can't get at least a 2nd for him. Bringing him back for 20 + million off the strength of 1 season is shortsighted. Watson, Foreman, Nuk, Fuller and a young stud LT taken in the 1st or 2nd next year with a pick we could get potentially get for Savage is the future.

The whole putting our eggs in basket thing...that's what we're essentially doing now as neither Savage or Watson has thrown a TD pass in the regular season...collectively 2 starts between them.

Go ahead and get the future started.

What is the backup plan if the Texans FT Savage after a really strong season in order to possibly gain a 2018 RD2 pick by trading him and Watson fails to deliver? If Savage were to deliver that type of season, you get him signed and let Watson try and dethrone him as QB1. Heck, you're getting that type of season from a QB in the NFL while playing an NFL schedule....versus a hot college QB -a year removed- who's biggest success came while playing a Division I schedule. After everything the Texans have been through QB wise....this sounds like a sane move?

Heck, if Savage had that kind of success, I might be more inclined to move Watson for an early draft pick in order to get an couple of OL to make this unit better...which should have been done this year so the team could've drafted a QB in 2018 while addressing other areas of need.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Okay I guess I am just a little upset that after all the years with BOB the QB guru, Savage is the best we have on the roster.

....and? 1,2 or 3 years...does it really matter how long he's been here? The biggest thing to realize, it's never been discussed by the FO during his time on the roster that he be traded, released, or relegated to the PS. That tells me more about the RD4 QB than posters who think they kept a lame-duck QB on the roster to help O'Brien save face.

The biggest failure in 2017, RS giving what he did to draft Watson while leaving the holes in the OL unanswered and better yet, having no earthly idea that DB was upset enough about his contract that the best OL on this team was going to hold-out and jeopardize the 2017 season offensively. Thanks again RS for your brilliant insight.

 

[Texansballer74]

I can believe it considering that we haven't had a qb skill or tenure-wise here to execute what OB may want to try to do on offense. Every qb he's had here seems as if they've had to pair the offense down to either make it easier for them to grasp or execute b/c they've lacked 1 or both of the elements above. Savage is actually the 1st qb to start a game for us in Ob's time here who has at least 1 of those elements - tenure in it to learn it's nuances. If he can bring a modicum of skill to add to the tenure, our offense may just be watchable.

Both Hoyer and Mallett played in this system for years in New England. This is where Bill O'Brien adopted this type of offensive system from. Both of those players new the system very well. Unfortunately Hoyer chokes up in big games and Mallett was a hot head.

 

[Texansballer74]

Apparently not some of us. Some of us are dead set on Watson no matter what Savage does.

That's called being a real special kind of stupid and is also a good way to get yourself a gig as a GM of the Cleveland Browns.

And if Watson goes somewhere else starts and win the Superbowl while we are one in done in the playoffs. Then are those fans that wanted to keep Watson still labeled as, " real special kind of stupid"?

If Savage does produce on that level, you keep him. You also continue to groom Watson as well. Just in case Savage gets struck with the injury bug in 2018.

 

[Texansballer74]

& hauling off to pay a guy who hasn't shown that he can stay on the field top 5 money off the strength of 1 season b/c we're so qb starved just sounds knee jerk to me

That's the Texans way. They did it for Brock Osweiler. Seen a few positive games in Denver and said, " that's our guy, make it happen no matter the cost".

 

[Carr Bombed]

That's the Texans way. They did it for Brock Osweiler. Seen a few positive games in Denver and said, " that's our guy, make it happen no matter the cost".

If this hypothetical question takes place it won't be remotely comparable to the Osweiler situation...

First of all it wouldn't just be a few positive games, it would be a entire season and 2 full seasons before he's offered a multi year deal.

And second, unlike Brock all those great starts came on your team and in your system and not someone else's before he's offered a long term deal.

This would be a entire different situation than Houston signing Osweiler in free agency.

 

[Mr teX]

You guys are losing sight of a few things here. You're assuming that a top 10 season automatically means that the qb is good & we're winning. Those things don't necessarily go hand & hand....See Bortles' 2015 campaign and various other guys like Ryan Tannehill & Tony Romo who over the years have posted a top 10...& in some cases top 5 passing seasons......... yet their teams don't even make the playoffs or exit 1st round. Last year Derek Carr had the 14th best passing season by statistics. Would any of you take Kirk Cousins (#3 best passing season) or Andy Dalton (#11) over him right now? Probably not. The reality is the bottom 1/2 of top 10 passers in the league on any given year changes & most times its a mix of really good qbs (Brady was #20th, Rothlisberger #17 last year) and a few mediocore to not-so good qbs who may not even be in the league in a few years.....(Josh Freeman, RG3 anyone?). In other words, unless you have skins on the wall like Brady & Rothlisberger, 1 or even a couple of top 10 passing seasons don't mean **** in terms of the long term viability of a qb and the overall success of the team.

The 2nd thing is, our run game is slightly above pedestrian & our o-line is looking real suspect. Why would you commit long term to a statue qb with injury concerns when the 2 things that can protect him most are not in good shape? Especially with our ability to improve those things around him being hampered due to no 1st or 2nd round picks for the next few years? Sure you could hit FA, but you plan to extend a long term contract to Savage so any cap space we do have would likely get eaten up by his contract or FA tag if you choose to FA tag him to death........Furthermore does anyone at this point have any confidence in Smith's ability to land a solid FA on offense?

Meanwhile you'd have a younger, more dynamic talent with more potential sitting on the bench.....................for the next 3-4 years...................that could mask some of those deficiencies for a bit..................at a bargin. It's a no brainer honestly.

The minute the Texans moved up to take Watson, they committed to him & at this point, I doubt Savage is thinking he's gonna be around much longer. This is his opportunity to cash in & if he puts good tape out there, best believe he's gonna go where he can get the most money and not have to look over his shoulder, neither of which the Texans are in a position to really offer him. Franchising him only hurts this organization in the long run, unless they do it and get picks in return.

 

[76Texan]

You guys are losing sight of a few things here. You're assuming that a top 10 season automatically means that the qb is good & we're winning. Those things don't necessarily go hand & hand....See Bortles' 2015 campaign and various other guys like Ryan Tannehill & Tony Romo who over the years have posted a top 10...& in some cases top 5 passing seasons......... yet their teams don't even make the playoffs or exit 1st round. Last year Derek Carr had the 14th best passing season by statistics. Would any of you take Kirk Cousins (#3 best passing season) or Andy Dalton (#11) over him right now? Probably not. The reality is the bottom 1/2 of top 10 passers in the league on any given year changes & most times its a mix of really good qbs (Brady was #20th, Rothlisberger #17 last year) and a few mediocore to not-so good qbs who may not even be in the league in a few years.....(Josh Freeman anyone?). In other words, unless you have skins on the wall like Brady & Rothlisberger, 1 or even a couple of top 10 passing seasons don't mean **** in terms of the long term viability of a qb and the overall success of the team.

The 2nd thing is, our run game is slightly above pedestrian & our o-line is looking real suspect. Why would you commit long term to a statue qb with injury concerns when the 2 things that can protect him most are not in good shape? Especially with our ability to improve those things around him being hampered due to no 1st or 2nd round picks for the next few years? Sure you could hit FA, but you plan to extend a long term contract to Savage so any cap space we do have would likely get eaten up by his contract or FA tag if you choose to FA tag him to death........Furthermore does anyone at this point have any confidence in Smith's ability to land a solid FA on offense?

Meanwhile you'd have a younger, more dynamic talent with more potential sitting on the bench.....................for the next 3-4 years...................that could mask some of those deficiencies for a bit..................at a bargin. It's a no brainer honestly.

If the Oline is suspect and the run game pedestrian as you said, a true top ten season by a QB (not due to garbage time like Bortles, nor because the receivers gain huge YAC), then the franchise tag might be justified.
I'm not sure I would want to do it, but I would have to consider it strongly.
I would try to find a good trade for Watson though. It's likely you can find some "homers" to trade him for 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

 

[Mr teX]

If the Oline is suspect and the run game pedestrian as you said, a true top ten season by a QB (not due to garbage time like Bortles, nor because the receivers gain huge YAC), then the franchise tag might be justified.
I'm not sure I would want to do it, but I would have to consider it strongly.
I would try to find a good trade for Watson though. It's likely you can find some "homers" to trade him for 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

Here's what it comes down to though 76...10+ years of potential stability at the position in Watson vs. 2-7 years of potential stability with Savage? I think Savage could be a very good middle of the road starter for a team, but much like Schaub, I don't see the ability to "overcome" if things aren't just right for him. With Watson, I do. People think he's in the mold of RG3, VY and other run-1st qbs but he's not...he's closer to the McNabb & Wilson types. Athletes who can make plays with their legs but would prefer to pass the ball. Houston has never had a qb with such dynamic ability.

 

[76Texan]

Here's what it comes down to though 76...10+ years of potential stability at the position in Watson vs. 2-7 years of potential stability with Savage? I think Savage could be a very good middle of the road starter for a team, but much like Schaub, I don't see the ability to "overcome" if things aren't just right for him. With Watson, I do. People think he's in the mold of RG3, VY and other run-1st qbs but he's not...he's closer to the McNabb & Wilson types. Athletes who can make plays with their legs but would prefer to pass the ball. Houston has never had a qb with such dynamic ability.

I don't expect a true top ten season for Savage, so it's really a moot point.
We were just discussing the "what if".
If a Savage were to do it, he could be the next Kurt Warner for all we know.
And if that's the case, getting draft picks for Watson in a class supposedly full of OT prospects isn't such a bad idea, I don't think.

 

[frethack]

If the Oline is suspect and the run game pedestrian as you said, a true top ten season by a QB (not due to garbage time like Bortles, nor because the receivers gain huge YAC), then the franchise tag might be justified.
I'm not sure I would want to do it, but I would have to consider it strongly.
I would try to find a good trade for Watson though. It's likely you can find some "homers" to trade him for 2 firsts and 2 seconds.

Hypothetically, I'd be good with the FT or a short contract with guaranteed money for Savage (If he plays very well) and hold on to Watson for another year or two.

Two 1sts and two 2nds would be way too much to pass up though, if someone would offer it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

 

[Mr teX]

Hypothetically, I'd be good with the FT or a short contract with guaranteed money for Savage (If he plays very well) and hold on to Watson for another year or two.

Two 1sts and two 2nds would be way too much to pass up though, if someone would offer it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Agreed about the picks being offered for him but i doubt he takes a short term contract If he plays well b/c he'll likely have suitors offering him more & he'll likely pick a place where he won't have to look over his shoulder

 

[Texansballer74]

If this hypothetical question takes place it won't be remotely comparable to the Osweiler situation...

First of all it wouldn't just be a few positive games, it would be a entire season and 2 full seasons before he's offered a multi year deal.

And second, unlike Brock all those great starts came on your team and in your system and not someone else's before he's offered a long term deal.

This would be a entire different situation than Houston signing Osweiler in free agency.

It still doesn't matter, if you over spend for a thought, you over spent. And most of you fans will blame it on Ricky McNair.

Oh and it could be a few games.
Two scenarios:

1. He gets hurt but showed potential to be really good.

2. He have a few good games but played terrible in a few as well.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Agreed about the picks being offered for him but i doubt he takes a short term contract If he plays well b/c he'll likely have suitors offering him more & he'll likely pick a place where he won't have to look over his shoulder

That's where the franchise tag comes in..if we tag him and if he does sign another team's off, we either match it or don't and automatically receive 2 1st round picks from that team. That's what the tag is for and that's why other team's rarely negotiate with players who are tagged.

If he plays well he isn't going to want a short term contract unless he's Kirk Cousins who keeps signing one year contracts with the Redskins and actually loves them because it makes him one of the highest paid QBs every year.

So if the Texans do offer him a contract that he's happy with I doubt he wouldn't sign it out of fear of looking over his shoulder, because it'll be a long term investment where he'll be highly compensated vs a QB who's on a cheap rookie deal. He wouldn't have to look over his shoulder unless he crapped the bed the way Osweiler did.

 

[Carr Bombed]

It still doesn't matter, if you over spend for a thought, you over spent. And most of you fans will blame it on Ricky McNair.

Oh and it could be a few games.
Two scenarios:

1. He gets hurt but showed potential to be really good.

2. He have a few good games but played terrible in a few as well.

Well 1. and 2. don't fall under this hypothetical scenerio do they?

So no, if this hypothetical situation happens it wouldn't be signing him based off of a few games and it wouldn't be a overspend for a thought either. It would be a contract offer based on the full body of work of two seasons..one season played under the franchise tag.

If he gets injured again for a significant amount of time again or only has a few great games mixed with a terrible ones he's not going to get starters money from anyone. If that happens we might even be able to get him back here under contract to keep doing what he's been doing here the past few seasons...backup.

 

[Mr teX]

That's where the franchise tag comes in..if we tag him and if he does sign another team's off, we either match it or don't and automatically receive 2 1st round picks from that team. That's what the tag is for and that's why other team's rarely negotiate with players who are tagged.

If he plays well he isn't going to want a short term contract unless he's Kirk Cousins who keeps signing one year contracts with the Redskins and actually loves them because it makes him one of the highest paid QBs every year.

So if the Texans do offer him a contract that he's happy with I doubt he wouldn't sign it out of fear of looking over his shoulder, because it'll be a long term investment where he'll be highly compensated vs a QB who's on a cheap rookie deal. He wouldn't have to look over his shoulder unless he crapped the bed the way Osweiler did.

I suppose you're right, but Cousins is the exception, not the rule. & you said it right, If he's happy with it. There's at least a high probability that he may not like it if: A.) he knows that he could get more guaranteed out on the market as a UFA......... whenever that time comes, B.) He bets on himself, takes the franchise tag, plays well and then ups his stock. The FT for a qb in 2017 is already around 22 million...Once you factor in the extension Stafford just got we could very well be looking to pay this dude 24 million for 2018......based on 1 season of work. I won't even entertain how much we'd have to pay him if they franchised him twice b/c the payday would be ridiculous and at that point the texans would lose any leverage they may have had. if they did want to sign him long term...they'd likely have to pony up a helluva lot more then.

& like i said, all the while you've got Watson sitting on the bench getting paid relative pennies

 

[TexansBull]

I think it's fun to talk about uncertainties with certainty.

 

[thunderkyss]

That's where the franchise tag comes in..if we tag him and if he does sign another team's off, we either match it or don't and automatically receive 2 1st round picks from that team. That's what the tag is for and that's why other team's rarely negotiate with players who are tagged.

Depends on the tag... I think. I don't believe Kirk Cousins can negotiate with another team.

However, when the Falcons tagged Schaub they allowed the Texans to talk to him, then after we were sure he was our guy, they removed the tag, which required a first round pick, & agreed to trade him for two 2nd round picks.

& maybe that's the Texans plan. Who knows? Schaub only started two games played in four, I think, & we gave up two 2nds.

But if Savage plays well enough someone wants to give up two 2nds... why wouldn't we want him? It's not like Watson is Michael Vick.

If he plays well he isn't going to want a short term contract unless he's Kirk Cousins who keeps signing one year contracts with the Redskins and actually loves them because it makes him one of the highest paid QBs every year.

I don't think Cousins has much a choice. He either signs or he doesn't play for the season.

So if the Texans do offer him a contract that he's happy with I doubt he wouldn't sign it out of fear of looking over his shoulder, because it'll be a long term investment where he'll be highly compensated vs a QB who's on a cheap rookie deal. He wouldn't have to look over his shoulder unless he crapped the bed the way Osweiler did.

I think it would depend on what his agent thinks they can get & how badly he wants to stay in Houston.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

If this hypothetical question takes place it won't be remotely comparable to the Osweiler situation...

First of all it wouldn't just be a few positive games, it would be a entire season and 2 full seasons before he's offered a multi year deal.

And second, unlike Brock all those great starts came on your team and in your system and not someone else's before he's offered a long term deal.

This would be a entire different situation than Houston signing Osweiler in free agency.

I recently read somewhere where the article concluded that there are only 2 NFL starters that are not a product of the system...i.e., system QBs. Don't ask me who those 2 are because I didn't read the entire article.

 

[Carr Bombed]

I don't think Cousins has much a choice. He either signs or he doesn't play for the season.

Kirk Cousins did have a choice, the Redskins were willing to make him one of the top paid players in league history, but he actually prefers the one year deals.. I don't get it, but to each his own.

Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins eschewed his agent for a higher power when it came time to put pen to paper on a contract.

Cousins spoke at Liberty University's convocation last Friday and detailed how he decided against signing a long-term deal with the team, opting instead for a one-year contract with Washington. He said he prayed about his decision and that he didn't "feel at peace" with signing the multiyear extension.

Liberty University transcribed Cousins' interview:

"I prayed about it, and I do believe that the Lord, at least in my life, likes to use one-year contracts and not long-term contracts. He likes to take me to the edge of the Red Sea and have me see there is water in front of me, there are mountains on either side, and there are Egyptians chasing me from behind. And He wants me to sit there for a moment and go, 'God, You better show up.' And then He parts the Red Sea and He's done that time and again in my life, on the football field and off the football field."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...o-sign-1-year-contract-with-redskins.amp.html

Here's the team's response..

 

[thunderkyss]

Kirk Cousins did have a choice, the Redskins were willing to make him one of the top paid players in league history, but he actually prefers the one year deals.. I don't get it, but to each his own.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...o-sign-1-year-contract-with-redskins.amp.html

Here's the team's response..

Sorry, I thought we were talking about in relation to the tag. I meant he couldn't negotiate with other teams.

 

[thunderkyss]

So... can Savage be as good as Alex Smith?

 

[Corrosion]

My biggest issue with Schaub was that due to his extremely limited physical skills everything had to go right on a play for him to be successful.. He didn't have the physical ability to overcome a broken play very often and in order to consistently beat winning teams you need a QB who can do that and Schaub couldn't. He didn't have the feet to escape preasure and he didn't have the arm strength to fire into tight windows, it also cost us huge plays down field (reason why Andre a HOF caliber WR never had 10+ TDs in his career)

Between the ears Schaub was as good as anyone in the NFL. He was extremely smart, knew where to go with the football, and was accurate as hell. However after his injury and his physical skills slipped even further his mental strength/accuracy could no longer mask/overcome his deficiencies and the wheels completely fell off.

Very accurate description of Schaub and his decline ....

 

[Uncle Rico]

Tommy better have his head on a swivel. He doesn't need to be good ... Just average. Let the defense do its thing, protect the ball. Bam! Lombardi trophy. It's easy don't make it complicated.

 

[Corrosion]

That's the Texans way. They did it for Brock Osweiler. Seen a few positive games in Denver and said, " that's our guy, make it happen no matter the cost".

In their defense .... Kubiak made Brock look more than competent - OB couldn't get the same production out of him.

I have to give them a little credit for taking that risk because that roster aside from the QB position is capable of competing for all the marbles. Had they got it right, it coulda brought a Lombardi Trophy to Houston.


Also have to give them credit for moving on from that mistake tho I would have just cut him and eaten the cap hit rather than giving up the pick to save ~$9m.

 

[TexanBorn51]

"Winning isn't everything it's the only thing" Vince Lombardi. Texans 1 Jags 0 with or without Brown

 

[Texas Jake]

The Texans have been a QB thirsty team for years... now you want to get rid of one they finally hit on?

Quite a few people on this board seem overly enamored with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good prospect and could turn out to be a really good QB, but some seem to think this is a guarantee (which it is not). If Savage had a top 10 year, there is no way I would ditch him for Watson, just like I would not ditch Watson for Tom if it was Watson who had the top 10 year. If you got a top ten QB, you stick with them over an unproven commodity.

I have seen a lot of comments about Watson having X times the talent/upside of Savage. This is probably primarily do to Watson's athleticism (i.e. ability to run). IMO, running it a nice bonus, but the great NFL QBs beat you with their arm not their legs. Of the two, Savage has the stronger arm and has demonstrated better accuracy. The most important asset a QB has is that gray matter between his ears, that is where the truly great ones beat you (provided they have the physical tools to go along with it). Peyton is a good example of a QB who had the football IQ, but his last year the physical tools just weren't there anymore and he struggled. Neither of our two QB's have proven they have the necessary football IQ and can process the game in the heat of battle. That is yet to be seen and can only be discovered on game day and it takes a few of those to find out if a QB has got it or can get it, at least a season worth of them, I think.

My point? When I look at Savage and Watson I don't see two QBs of vastly different potential, I see two QBs with different skillsets. Watson is the flashy, dual threat type QB that is easy to get excited about. Savage is the classic NFL drop back passer. It is exciting to think about how Watson can burn the defense with his feet when the protection breaks down, but I would rather have a QB who can get the ball out quickly and accurately into tight windows to burn the blitz with his arm. Ideally, you would like someone who can do both, but if you can do the latter you don't have to be able to do the former. When analyzing Watson and Savage I believe both have potential, either could be the answer, either could fail, both are unproven. If either one, when given the opportunity, runs away with it - you stay with the hot hand, not the candidate you are enamored with.

 

[badboy]

Agreed about the picks being offered for him but i doubt he takes a short term contract If he plays well b/c he'll likely have suitors offering him more & he'll likely pick a place where he won't have to look over his shoulder

Would Savage want to go to a team that is not in chase and just put his life at risk or even if team can keep him in vertical position just for bucks?

 

[badboy]

[QUOTED="thunderkyss, post: 2745969, member: 4189"]So... can Savage be as good as Alex Smith?[/QUOTE]
SOLD oh I have to wait and see right?

 

[badboy]

Quite a few people on this board seem overly enamored with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good prospect and could turn out to be a really good QB, but some seem to think this is a guarantee (which it is not). If Savage had a top 10 year, there is no way I would ditch him for Watson, just like I would not ditch Watson for Tom if it was Watson who had the top 10 year. If you got a top ten QB, you stick with them over an unproven commodity.

I have seen a lot of comments about Watson having X times the talent/upside of Savage. This is probably primarily do to Watson's athleticism (i.e. ability to run). IMO, running it a nice bonus, but the great NFL QBs beat you with their arm not their legs. Of the two, Savage has the stronger arm and has demonstrated better accuracy. The most important asset a QB has is that gray matter between his ears, that is where the truly great ones beat you (provided they have the physical tools to go along with it). Peyton is a good example of a QB who had the football IQ, but his last year the physical tools just weren't there anymore and he struggled. Neither of our two QB's have proven they have the necessary football IQ and can process the game in the heat of battle. That is yet to be seen and can only be discovered on game day and it takes a few of those to find out if a QB has got it or can get it, at least a season worth of them, I think.

My point? When I look at Savage and Watson I don't see two QBs of vastly different potential, I see two QBs with different skillsets. Watson is the flashy, dual threat type QB that is easy to get excited about. Savage is the classic NFL drop back passer. It is exciting to think about how Watson can burn the defense with his feet when the protection breaks down, but I would rather have a QB who can get the ball out quickly and accurately into tight windows to burn the blitz with his arm. Ideally, you would like someone who can do both, but if you can do the latter you don't have to be able to do the former. When analyzing Watson and Savage I believe both have potential, either could be the answer, either could fail, both are unproven. If either one, when given the opportunity, runs away with it - you stay with the hot hand, not the candidate you are enamored with.

If Savage is top 10 we don't have to do anything pay wise for Watson for five years. We pay Savage and see what Watson develops into. Tom turns 32 and is able to play top 10 or so we extend him and trade Watson..unless Watson is a top 10 or so..

 

[Corrosion]

Quite a few people on this board seem overly enamored with Watson. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a good prospect and could turn out to be a really good QB, but some seem to think this is a guarantee (which it is not). If Savage had a top 10 year, there is no way I would ditch him for Watson, just like I would not ditch Watson for Tom if it was Watson who had the top 10 year. If you got a top ten QB, you stick with them over an unproven commodity.

I have seen a lot of comments about Watson having X times the talent/upside of Savage. This is probably primarily do to Watson's athleticism (i.e. ability to run). IMO, running it a nice bonus, but the great NFL QBs beat you with their arm not their legs. Of the two, Savage has the stronger arm and has demonstrated better accuracy. The most important asset a QB has is that gray matter between his ears, that is where the truly great ones beat you (provided they have the physical tools to go along with it). Peyton is a good example of a QB who had the football IQ, but his last year the physical tools just weren't there anymore and he struggled. Neither of our two QB's have proven they have the necessary football IQ and can process the game in the heat of battle. That is yet to be seen and can only be discovered on game day and it takes a few of those to find out if a QB has got it or can get it, at least a season worth of them, I think.

My point? When I look at Savage and Watson I don't see two QBs of vastly different potential, I see two QBs with different skillsets. Watson is the flashy, dual threat type QB that is easy to get excited about. Savage is the classic NFL drop back passer. It is exciting to think about how Watson can burn the defense with his feet when the protection breaks down, but I would rather have a QB who can get the ball out quickly and accurately into tight windows to burn the blitz with his arm. Ideally, you would like someone who can do both, but if you can do the latter you don't have to be able to do the former. When analyzing Watson and Savage I believe both have potential, either could be the answer, either could fail, both are unproven. If either one, when given the opportunity, runs away with it - you stay with the hot hand, not the candidate you are enamored with.

Really good post ....

 

[Texas Jake]

If Savage is top 10 we don't have to do anything pay wise for Watson for five years. We pay Savage and see what Watson develops into. Tom turns 32 and is able to play top 10 or so we extend him and trade Watson..unless Watson is a top 10 or so..

Even if you have a top 10 QB, you always should have a plan B. Plan A is just one injury away from not being Plan A anymore.

 

[Corrosion]

Even if you have a top 10 QB, you always should have a plan B. Plan A is just one injury away from not being Plan A anymore.

That's why I believe Tricky Rick shoulda been the one fired for 2-14. We had known (at least those on this forum from Doc's diagnosis) for an entire year that Schaub wasnt ever gonna be Good Schaub again - like CB pointed out earlier , he cold no longer makeup for his physical shortcomings with accuracy and smarts. Tricky Rick had nothing behind Schaub and did nothing to fix going forward. Here we are several years later and the problem still exists as neither of the current QB's has done diddly (Yet).

 

[Texecutioner]

That's why I believe Tricky Rick shoulda been the one fired for 2-14. We had known (at least those on this forum from Doc's diagnosis) for an entire year that Schaub wasnt ever gonna be Good Schaub again - like CB pointed out earlier , he cold no longer makeup for his physical shortcomings with accuracy and smarts. Tricky Rick had nothing behind Schaub and did nothing to fix going forward. Here we are several years later and the problem still exists as neither of the current QB's has done diddly (Yet).

Well a ton of people in Houston and in this forum believed we did have that guy in Keenum at the time.

 

[Texas Jake]

That's why I believe Tricky Rick shoulda been the one fired for 2-14. We had known (at least those on this forum from Doc's diagnosis) for an entire year that Schaub wasnt ever gonna be Good Schaub again - like CB pointed out earlier , he cold no longer makeup for his physical shortcomings with accuracy and smarts. Tricky Rick had nothing behind Schaub and did nothing to fix going forward. Here we are several years later and the problem still exists as neither of the current QB's has done diddly (Yet).

The Texans have always been lousy at grooming backup QBs.

 

[OptimisticTexan]

Kubiak always thought OL were replaceable with the success of his Zone-Blocking schemes or better known back then as the legal Chop-Block scheme. Fortunately, the NFL addressed this scheme's attack and it has forced teams into finding actual OL who can fit the new version of this old system. Kubiak and RS both allowed the best OL the Texans possessed to be disbanded instead of signed in favor of drafted OL or cheap replacements...that philosophy hasn't paid dividends since then. The point being made, I don't think RS ever let go of this philosophy (Broncos & Texans) and remains under the influence of that old way of thinking....OL just aren't that high of a priority and holes can filled with just about any OL willing to play the position for the right price.

I'm more than a little curious in regards to the DB situation. Since O'Brien was adamant about not starting RS's rookie QB right away, I wonder if RS decided now was a good time to play the ultimate game of hardball with the teams best OL. Had O'Brien been willing to trot Watson out as QB1 for the opener, I wonder if RS would've allowed his prized pick to play QB behind this current OL....my guess, no!

As a fan, you can only hope that this OL can figure out how to find a little success and Savage finds a way to take advantage. Otherwise, RS may finally get an opportunity to put his final stamp (not good so far) on this team by hiring a HC and staff he covets....I just hope that McNair comes to his senses and realizes the direction RS has taken his franchise. If this season goes flop....it'll really be time for McNair to set aside friendships and drain the "entire" swamp on Kirby and start over with a seasoned group.

 

[Hervoyel]

Well a ton of people in Houston and in this forum believed we did have that guy in Keenum at the time.

As happens a lot in the NFL the way the transition was handled and the circumstances at the time it happened kind of screwed up whatever chance it had of working. Kubiak was (I believe) being pushed by McNair towards Keenum and he was loyal as hell to Schaub. I'm not going to say Kubiak didn't want Keenum but I don't believe (again) that he saw anything remotely like what McNair saw in him. He understood the difference between college highlights and the professional game and so while I don't doubt he liked Case Keenum (it's hard to find someone who doesn't like him as a person) I don't think he wanted him at all in his QB room. The owner was in love with the local hero so Gary had to make it happen somehow.

Tucked safely into the 3 spot and calling Keenum and Yates 2A and 2B appeased the owner which was all Kubiak really needed to do at the time. So Gary goes about his business trying to get Schaub right again. That doesn't work though and before long the epic series of pick six passes happens and Schaub gets hurt. Enter Keenum at Kansas City and exit Arian Foster's hamstring for the year.

I'm 99% sure Kubiak never intended to play Keenum going into 2013 and I'm slightly more sure that if he did he never wanted to do it without Foster who was the best friend of everyone to play QB for this team for the duration of his time here. A week later Kubiak goes down with a mini-stroke and we're in complete free-fall. I do to this day still believe that Kubiak is one of the people in the league who could make a Case Keenum led offense productive but not under those circumstances and not without a really powerful running game. Also there are easier ways to skin that cat and Kubiak probably understood that better than anyone.

Water under the bridge. Until we see what Savage can do Sunday we just don't know much of anything at this point.

 

[Hervoyel]

The Texans have always been lousy at grooming backup QBs.

We don't exactly have a real shining record when it comes to preparing starters either.

 

[thunderkyss]

Kubiak was (I believe) being pushed by McNair towards Keenum and he was loyal as hell to Schaub. I'm not going to say Kubiak didn't want Keenum but I don't believe (again) that he saw anything remotely like what McNair saw in him.

I feel like Kubiak was on board with developing Keenum. He & McNair's disagreement was over timing. Keenum was our 3rd string QB, the scout team QB. Never actually played/practiced in our offense.

I think part of all the hoopla was that Kubiak wanted to go to Yates after Schaub, but since he waited so long, McNair made the decision to go with Case.

Of course I have nothing to back this up. Just what makes the most sense to me. I think Kubiak liked Case, just wasn't ready to start him.

 

[Texas Jake]

As happens a lot in the NFL the way the transition was handled and the circumstances at the time it happened kind of screwed up whatever chance it had of working. Kubiak was (I believe) being pushed by McNair towards Keenum and he was loyal as hell to Schaub. I'm not going to say Kubiak didn't want Keenum but I don't believe (again) that he saw anything remotely like what McNair saw in him. He understood the difference between college highlights and the professional game and so while I don't doubt he liked Case Keenum (it's hard to find someone who doesn't like him as a person) I don't think he wanted him at all in his QB room. The owner was in love with the local hero so Gary had to make it happen somehow.

Tucked safely into the 3 spot and calling Keenum and Yates 2A and 2B appeased the owner which was all Kubiak really needed to do at the time. So Gary goes about his business trying to get Schaub right again. That doesn't work though and before long the epic series of pick six passes happens and Schaub gets hurt. Enter Keenum at Kansas City and exit Arian Foster's hamstring for the year.

I'm 99% sure Kubiak never intended to play Keenum going into 2013 and I'm slightly more sure that if he did he never wanted to do it without Foster who was the best friend of everyone to play QB for this team for the duration of his time here. A week later Kubiak goes down with a mini-stroke and we're in complete free-fall. I do to this day still believe that Kubiak is one of the people in the league who could make a Case Keenum led offense productive but not under those circumstances and not without a really powerful running game. Also there are easier ways to skin that cat and Kubiak probably understood that better than anyone.

Water under the bridge. Until we see what Savage can do Sunday we just don't know much of anything at this point.

The wheels seemed to fall off after that mini-stroke. It appeared to have a big affect on Kubiak and the team that year. I wonder how differently that season goes if that incident doesn't happen?