Sage is our man

[Ibar_Harry]

Rosenfels did better against their 2nd team D than Carr did against their 2nd team D tonight. I know Carr has had great passes in the past and great games in the past and I've defended many times before, but tonight his backup outplayed him. He has developed a habit of not throwing for anything more than 5 yds (not counting run-after-catch), unless it is an 8 yd. stop-and-turn-around catch. I want to see him throw passes like he did in the first half of year 3 or in the Cardinals game last year and stop being a take-whatever-leftovers-the-D-allows you QB.

We all know that Carr has made DD the Texans #1 all-time receiver. Now, we have a lot more legitimate receivers on the field and not just a double or triple-teamed AJ and the dump-off to DD. I want to see Carr start acting like it.

In his defense, I will say that he did alright, just not good enough. He didn't suck or anything, like last preseason.

And a quote from David in the Chronicle:

"There are still some things we have to fix," Carr said. "The Rams were bringing some funky blitzes early, and it took us some time to adjust. Once we started running the ball better, we settled down.

"We moved the pocket a little after getting the early pressure. We're not a team that's going to drop back and throw 40 yards down the field. We're going to run the ball well and then have the quarterback get on the perimeter and make things happen."

What he is saying is he is doing what they want him to do. He is not to drop back and throw bombs. I too would like to see that once in a while, but I believe he is doing what he is told to do. Yes, he made mistakes, but so did SPENCER and the O-line in the beginning of the game. They had to take Spencer out for a few plays and replace him with Wand. When they finally got their nerves calmed down they began to play well. David had 3 nice drives. One lead to a chip shot missed field goal, one was a TD, and the other lead to field goal in the final seconds of the 1st half. Actually the lead David left with was the final margin of victory. Sage did not increase the lead by his play, but he certainly made possible for us to win as we stayed even point wise with the Rams in the 2nd half.

In fact Sage was 3 and out in the last two possessions in the 4th Qtr and we were lucky to win the game. Sage and Carr are a find tandum and will do well. They each bring a different game to the field which will make it unsettling for defenses to play against us. They are quite opposite in many respects. I will wait to listen and read what Kubiak has to say. I think he has a different perspective on what is happening out there.

 

[HJam72]

D.Carr 10-17-0, 99 yards.

S.Rosenfels 6-9-0, 99 yards and 1 touchdown.

That's going to equate to one huge difference in QB rating for one game. I saw where Rosenfels had some longer passes, but he's using the same offense that Carr is. It took Carr nearly twice as many attempts to equal the same amount of yardage and then there's the 1 touchdown pass by Rosenfels.

Most of Carr's 99 yards is run-after-catch stuff, it seems to me, and that's not a good thing when only looking at Carr's performance, IMO. It is only one game though, and we'll see how the next 2 games go.

 

[Texans Pride]

I think we can safely say that if Sage is the Man, then Kubiak will start him. I think Kubiak has made his position on favortism very clear.

Ok, am four hours late to this thread, and am probably going to repeat what is said somewhere in this tread. Jerek is 100% correct. The one thing we have seen from Kubs is that he doesn't care where you were drafted, how you were acquired, or how much you make, the best person for the positions will play. I don't know which QB will prevail, but I am confident that the best QB for the job will be placed on the field.. . . I just want to win, I don't care who helps bring them in.


GO TEXANS!

 

[Doom Capers]

put carr in against a second and third string and let sage start and this thread will be deleted. no way in hell sage is a better qb than carr

 

[Ibar_Harry]

D.Carr 10-17-0, 99 yards.

S.Rosenfels 6-9-0, 99 yards and 1 touchdown.

That's going to equate to one huge difference in QB rating for one game. I saw where Rosenfels had some longer passes, but he's using the same offense that Carr is. It took Carr nearly twice as many attempts to equal the same amount of yardage and then there's the 1 touchdown pass by Rosenfels.

Most of Carr's 99 yards is run-after-catch stuff, it seems to me, and that's not a good thing when only looking at Carr's performance, IMO. It is only one game though, and we'll see how the next 2 games go.

When Sage went in he had an O-line that had calmed down and were playing well. He was playing against the 1st string and there is a difference. I'm not saying Sage doesn't have talent, but he was in a different situation. Again, he did not increase our lead, rather he kept it the same.

 

[KKHouston]

Gee, another Wonger hate the Carr thread. Same old, same old. I guess all the other QB's that were 2nd and 3rd string that had a good game against their opponents 2nd and 3rd strings should be given the starting job as well. Nice deep and thoughtout analysis.

Now all we need is SWT_BOUND to chime in, and the two smartest non-coaches on the board will have represented...

 

[BradK10]

A lot less than they did when I bought them in 2002. A lot of people lost a lot of money on him, including me. His cards are now like a stock you just hold onto because it's nearly valueless and not worth selling.

that's what you get for investing your money in a fickle commodity like sports cards

 

[BradK10]

D.Carr 10-17-0, 99 yards.

S.Rosenfels 6-9-0, 99 yards and 1 touchdown.

That's going to equate to one huge difference in QB rating for one game. I saw where Rosenfels had some longer passes, but he's using the same offense that Carr is. It took Carr nearly twice as many attempts to equal the same amount of yardage and then there's the 1 touchdown pass by Rosenfels.

Most of Carr's 99 yards is run-after-catch stuff, it seems to me, and that's not a good thing when only looking at Carr's performance, IMO. It is only one game though, and we'll see how the next 2 games go.

Take into account also that the first couple series of the game were scripted, and the Rams brought some blitzes they didn't adjust to. For the non-football people out there...scripted means "these are the first 20 plays we are running, no matter what the other team does or no matter what the situation"

 

[TK_Gamer]

D.Carr 10-17-0, 99 yards.

S.Rosenfels 6-9-0, 99 yards and 1 touchdown.

That's going to equate to one huge difference in QB rating for one game. I saw where Rosenfels had some longer passes, but he's using the same offense that Carr is. It took Carr nearly twice as many attempts to equal the same amount of yardage and then there's the 1 touchdown pass by Rosenfels.

Most of Carr's 99 yards is run-after-catch stuff, it seems to me, and that's not a good thing when only looking at Carr's performance, IMO. It is only one game though, and we'll see how the next 2 games go.

you forgot to mention one thing, in fact all you guys jumping on the dump carr bandwagon forgot to mention the fact that Carr got blitzed by first team defense repeatedly, not all out blitz every down but extra rushers almost every down, and he started with lundy who missed several pass blocks reportedly. rosenfells got the benefit of morency for the start of his shift who pass blocked better than any of our backs, no you can say thats just one blocker and only a running back. ask peyton manning if he would like to have edge back. and not because of his rushing yards. ask trent green if he would like to have tony richardson back. and priest holmes back. so dont compare apples to sour grapes. Carr is a starter and sage is an "also ran" quit trying to get Carr to choke so you can get someone esle you can turn on.

 

[HJam72]

you forgot to mention one thing, in fact all you guys jumping on the dump carr bandwagon forgot to mention the fact that Carr got blitzed by first team defense repeatedly, not all out blitz every down but extra rushers almost every down, and he started with lundy who missed several pass blocks reportedly. rosenfells got the benefit of morency for the start of his shift who pass blocked better than any of our backs, no you can say thats just one blocker and only a running back. ask peyton manning if he would like to have edge back. and not because of his rushing yards. ask trent green if he would like to have tony richardson back. and priest holmes back. so dont compare apples to sour grapes. Carr is a starter and sage is an "also ran" quit trying to get Carr to choke so you can get someone esle you can turn on.

Calm down. I'm not saying that Carr is done (yet), I'm just saying that I believe he was outplayed in this game. I don't feel that way about game 1. I just call it how I see it.

As far as scripting the first 20 plays goes, I hate to knock Kubiak, but I think that's really stupid. It seems that most coaches do these things, especially in preseason, but not deciding these things on the fly is just asking for a melt-down, if you ask me. I mean, how 'bout if I go play a game of chess and make the first 20 moves without any regard for what my opponent is doing? I won't even get through the first 20 moves, that's what. I'll get my butt handed to me. At least have the plays you want, but run them in what ever order seems appropriate for the moment. Sheesh.

I don't know about pre-determined plays and all that, but I believe Carr was out-played by his back-up in game 2 after winning game 1. If I were deciding these things, I would also make sure that Carr plays with Morency next game, although that might not be at the start of the game for either of them. We need to mix things up, start people who haven't been starting, give others a chance to prove their even better against 3rd string, etc., and see what happens.

 

[kingh99]

Carr looked bad with the panicked side arm shuttle crap. I don't think the dude can see further than 10 yards. Rosenfelds was about 4 times better so allowing for the second string defense I'll admit to him being only 3 times better.

"Originally Posted by TK_Gamer
you forgot to mention one thing, in fact all you guys jumping on the dump carr bandwagon forgot to mention the fact that Carr got blitzed by first team defense repeatedly"

Great point. And what makes you think that won't be the mode against David. It's not like it hasn't been darned effective. David will face relentless pressure because he hasn't proven he can burn it.

 

[HJam72]

Carr faced the second team D and so did Rosenfels. That is what I'm basing my decision on--how they both did against the 2nd team D. I don't care how Carr did against 1st team or how Rosenfels did against 3rd or 4th string players. Against the 2nd team D, Carr did alright and Rosenfels did better.

This is only a one game decision. The drama goes on.

 

[HJam72]

Hey, let's shut up the nay-sayers and play Mario only in the 2nd half.

 

[HJam72]

I'll tell you what else I would do:

LET CARR CALL HIS OWN FREAKING PLAYS. He's proven he can do that. I know that it's not as necesarry now....well, shoot, I guess it is if we're scripting the first 20 freaking plays. All that planning and then, oh....well, what'ya know....they're blitzin' us. I guess we'll just keep running the script and get our butts handed to us. Yeah....that'll work just fine.

 

[D-Vizzl]

Everything will be a little more clearer next week, let's just wait and see. The only thing I can say is everyone has a point, it's preseason yeah and Rosenfels went up against lesser talent but, if anyone has tivoed or taped the game go back and focus on DC go through his progressions, very crappy and he's still focusing on the primary WR, if anyone doesn't see this take off the blinders man. I believe Carr has some competitive ways about him and he will do enough to stave off Sage, not that he has to though.

 

[Hulk75]

Hey, let's shut up the nay-sayers and play Mario only in the 2nd half.

.............funny

 

[HeartofHouston]

It's kinda of funny me and my gf was talking about this last night... She was a die-hard Carr fan.. no matter all the Young talk she was all about Carr but for the first time there was another twinkle in her eye Sage Rosenfels. She said to me..

"We should consider putting that guy in instead of Carr".. I then explained to her "Look Sage plays against 2nd team players and Carr plays against 1st team players, that's a big difference".. and this is the part that caught my attention she then replies.. "Well it doesnt matter who he's playing against the guys throwing the most accurate passes that I've seen, did you see that long pass to that Lewis guy? What does it matter who you're playing against when you can throw a pass that beatiful??"

So I thought about and instead of being so "Carr-Tunnel-Visioned" that conversation open my eyes.. Sage knows how to the read defense and he's a very accurate passer. Does it really matter if it's Champ Bailey or Undrafted John Doe? if you read the defense correctly and you put the ball where only your reciever can get to it then the answer is no. Cause if you look on that long bomb to Derrick Lewis the only way that defender was getting a hand on that is if he had a jet pack strapped to him.. and I dont think they've made those legal yet..

So I'm not saying off with Carr's head or anything like that I'm saying that if Carr is not working out i'm not as hesitate to put Rosenfels in there cause i'm confident he'll do a solid job.

 

[Hookem Horns]

then get ready to lose football games

We are ready. Carr has gotten us used to that.

 

[texan279]

AMEN on the carr statement. I warned people last year and the year before that . Carr is horrible. Last year the O-line was called the problem, the year before that it was play calling and no weapons. When will people realize that carr totally sucks. He holds the ball to long and can't read a D.

Sage Rosenfels? I doubt it, but anything is better than carr. At least everyone will be able to see that his best play is run towards the sidelines.

Andre Johnson can't wait to get off this team or get a real QB.

Ah and here come the Carr bashers...On that last comment you made, do you have a link or source? Do you know Andre Johnson personally? Or is this just speculation on your part?

 

[Hulk75]

I cant wait for week one, I got my thread all ready to go.

 

[Hookem Horns]

Carr looked bad with the panicked side arm shuttle crap.

"Panicked side arm" is an excellent way to describe this guy's "mechanics" or lack thereof. It's also funny how all the Carr apologist/Vince Young bashers were bashing VY about his side arm motion before the draft. I don't think I have ever seen David Carr put a nice arch on the ball like Rosenfels did lastnight. Actually, I don't know if that is possible using the "panicked side arm" motion.

Hopefully Carr will be ready to "play well" for week one.

 

[Hulk75]

"Panicked side arm" is an excellent way to describe this guy's "mechanics" or lack thereof. It's also funny how all the Carr apologist/Vince Young bashers were bashing VY about his side arm motion before the draft. I don't think I have ever seen David Carr put a nice arch on the ball like Rosenfels did lastnight. Actually, I don't know if that is possible using the "panicked side arm" motion.

Your right he never did...................

 

[texan279]

"Panicked side arm" is an excellent way to describe this guy's "mechanics" or lack thereof. It's also funny how all the Carr apologist/Vince Young bashers were bashing VY about his side arm motion before the draft. I don't think I have ever seen David Carr put a nice arch on the ball like Rosenfels did lastnight. Actually, I don't know if that is possible using the "panicked side arm" motion.

Hopefully Carr will be ready to "play well" for week one.

Just off the top of my head I remember the pass Carr made to Bradford against the Jags last season that Bradford dropped. The pass last night from Sage got the job done, but looked like a wounded duck.

 

[beerlover]

I'm just happy that we finally have a QB debate here in Houston also wonder why it took 5 years to develop one

The Texans could have used a similar QB like Sage Rosenfels from their inception to save Carr's hide and while I see some improvement in Carrs tendancies in the pocket (forcing himself to stay inside the tackles) I beleive the affects may not be reversable. Sage only has Carr by one inch, but stands much taller in the pocket & dance's on his toes while Carr seems to drop his frame down in a bundled, croach'ed position, which has to impact his field of vision

I will close by saying if Carr becomes injured at least we can have some confidence & hope that the Texans remain competitive. Also if anyone else noticed I like the chemistry on the sidelines between coach Kubes and Sage

 

[DominickDavisFan76]

I wish one of the games would be televised around the U.S. like...are any of the preseason games gonna be on the NFL Channel?

but ya..um about the post....

David Carr is playin the first team D so i doubt that a guy who plays 2nd and 3rd team D is gonna start, and plus 10-17, 99 yards isnt bad at all, I see DC improving a lot and being possibly a Pro Bowler....in 2 years.....

 

[football freak]

Banks should have been the starter last year and Rosenfals or someone they will no doubt trade for at a later date will this year.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I'm not going to see the game until tomorrow. But... just to play Devil's Advocate...

Yeah, Sage is playing against the 2nd and 3rd stringers but he's also playing with the 2nd and 3rd stringers... and Morency who is probably going to be a 1st stringer.

Now, having said that, I think it's hard for us sitting out here watching the game to really judge the performance. We know what we "see" but we don't really know what we're looking at or what we should be looking for. The coaches know what plays were called and where the ball should have gone and how quickly it should have gotten there.

The bottom line is that with Kubiak, I really expect the best player to find his way to the field. If Sage is better, he'll be playing.

On the issue of scripted plays, it's really a strategy thing. You run a certain group of plays to set up what you're going to be doing later. Chess is a very bad analogy. Think of it more like a weird chess match. Let's say you're going to play one single person 100 times. You don't worry too much about losing the first few games because you're trying to learn how your opponent plays and thinks so that you can win more games later. So you play through certain openings and see how they react.

 

[powerfuldragon]

i'm on this bandwagon

 

[CaptainPatriot]

I thought David Carr played well. He did seem kind of jitterish but his play improved as the 1st half went on. The first two series' weren't good, but he didn't play poorly by any means. I believe Carr is the man. Kubiak probably thinks so too.

Go back and look at the only sack of the game. Carr went right into the block to the outside shoulder instead of stepping up into the pocket. He threw the same exact pass to AJ this week as last week. AJ had to become a DB both times. It is time to try Sage with the 1st team. Carr hasn`t not been accurate. Sage puts the ball right there almost every time!

 

[Vinny]

Go back and look at the only sack of the game. Carr went right into the block to the outside shoulder instead of stepping up into the pocket. He threw the same exact pass to AJ this week as last week. AJ had to become a DB both times. It is time to try Sage with the 1st team. Carr hasn`t not been accurate. Sage puts the ball right there almost every time!

Kubiak was chewing Carr out on the side right after that early sack. I thought Carr looked like he ususally does...not real impressive except for short safe passes and can't get the ball up the field from the pocket. Most of his passing yards are yac off of a short pass.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I did not like Carr almost getting sacked and fumbling in field goal range ... that ball has got to be out of there . I believe Carr has not found his happy place , he's been either to slow with his reads or he looks like a T.Rex throwing just to get rid of the ball .

To me the ? is will he settle down or is this as good as it gets . I will also give him the fact that he has taken a beating that is the equal to a mental ruptured ACL .

 

[football freak]

was our o-line so bad that Carr's beating was all their fault?

 

[skillz24]

Sage has a much better understanding of this offense and looks a lot more comfortable. He will take Carr's job before this season is over.

apparently this is sage rosenfels father and trying to talk logic with him is an exercise in futility!

 

[the wonger need food]

What were they worth? It's been decades since I've seen new rookie cards for any player worth more than lunch money.

I believe his UD SP card was going for $400 when they first came out. It's steadily dropped since. I haven't seen one on ebay recently, but you could pick one up for considerably less today.

 

[beerlover]

forget everything we know for a minute about David Carr or Sage Rosenfels & judge them as if you were scouting them as NFL prospects. 1st thing you look for is production (how well the offense produces points and moves the ball) mental alertness, competitiveness, toughness, leadership, arm strength, athletic ability & footwork. just to name a few. David displays toughness thats for sure & has arm strength he never uses because he rarely sets in the pocket or has the time to step through on the throw, as a matter of fact this should be his strength, the deep ball. A lot's been said about David's release (sidearm, sling, casting) but usually these are short, prevent the sack dumpoffs around oncoming traffic. when given time with a lane his delivery is uninhibited and smooth with excellent velocity. David needs to continue to improve his footwork, make reads and run the playbook Kubiak calls to be more effective and the offense to be more productive.

Rosenfels does not have the arm strength or athletic ability of Carr but he does impress with his leadership, reads the defense and seems more comfortable running plays. He stands tall in the pocket, bouncing on his toes, does not lock onto targets & keeps options open, understanding coverage, displaying progression with a natural feel for Kubiak's scheme.

In the end I can easily see how David would be rated higher as a prospect, but in the actual game his mechanics tend to breakdown, fails to execute & make progressions through vaious coverages.

On the otherhand Rosenfels actually reminds me a little of Kubiak when he played while a back-up to Elway, of course he never had much of a chance to play but I doubt Carr = Elway so Sage just might be the Rage in the Cage against the Machine, or something like that (poor attempt at humor)

 

[eriadoc]

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zo...php?p=412353&posted=1#post412353&postcount=52

 

[The Pencil Neck]

was our o-line so bad that Carr's beating was all their fault?

Of course not. There was enough blame to go around: poor play calling, poor protection schemes, poorly designed plays, bad blitz pickups by the RB's, receivers not getting open, Carr not getting rid of the ball quick enough, Carr not making the correct reads quick enough, Carr running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage or eating the ball instead of throwing the ball away, etc., etc.

BUT... over the years, the line also played very, very poorly.

In general, where you choose to put the majority of the blame is usually the dividing line on whether you're pro or anti Carr. I personally think that our line played so poorly and Carr took so many sacks because of bad coaching so I'm in favor of Carr getting another chance. Some people think that the sacks are mostly Carr's fault because he's a bad player, so they're anti-Carr... or pro-Sage at this point.

 

[Jwwillis]

ALERT ESPN, Houston Sports Media anyone else you can think of David Carr faces 1st team defense and Sage sees 2nd or 3rd D's, but you have him already to start against 1st team D's rest of season. I wish I was as much of a genius as you are . I think I will wait for rest of lynch mob to arrive with the torches and ropes thanks anyways

Why does everybody omit the fact Sage is playing with 2/3 talent around him on O as well? Kubiak didnt recruit Sage aggressively and pay him a 2mill signing bonus for nothing. Unless a QB starts as a rookie they are all 2/3's at some point. We are not geniuses we are just stating the obvious based on performance on the field. Tillman/Kubiak/MClain...have all mentioned the same thing. I like Carr, but im not going to put on blinders, Im sure Kubiak won't.

 

[Jwwillis]

Of course not. There was enough blame to go around: poor play calling, poor protection schemes, poorly designed plays, bad blitz pickups by the RB's, receivers not getting open, Carr not getting rid of the ball quick enough, Carr not making the correct reads quick enough, Carr running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage or eating the ball instead of throwing the ball away, etc., etc.

BUT... over the years, the line also played very, very poorly.

In general, where you choose to put the majority of the blame is usually the dividing line on whether you're pro or anti Carr. I personally think that our line played so poorly and Carr took so many sacks because of bad coaching so I'm in favor of Carr getting another chance. Some people think that the sacks are mostly Carr's fault because he's a bad player, so they're anti-Carr... or pro-Sage at this point.

I disagree, I think "most" people understand that the o-line was mainly responsible. I am one of those people. However, if the line gets better and Carr still continues to make his mistakes......Avoiding the rush is part of the QB's responsibility too.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I disagree, I think "most" people understand that the o-line was mainly responsible. I am one of those people.

Well, look at it this way, with largely the same players that have been here*, our line suddenly looks at least serviceable. To me, that points to better coaching (play calling, play design, coaching the people, personnel decisions, etc.) and tends to discount that the problem was with the personnel.

* Right now, Spencer and Winston aren't really 1st stringers so they don't really count as personnel changes, yet. The biggest 1st string change is the addition of Flanagan, the rest of the guys were here but not used correctly or put into positions to be successful.

 

[DRAMA]

I think we can safely say that if Sage is the Man, then Kubiak will start him. I think Kubiak has made his position on favortism very clear.

There's the best summary I've heard so far! Sage does look comfortable in a pocket. DC still looks jittery...and rightfully so, I must add. However, the best player for our team will eventually be the starting QB at some point in the next year.

 

[tsip]

Kubiak was chewing Carr out on the side right after that early sack. I thought Carr looked like he ususally does...not real impressive except for short safe passes and can't get the ball up the field from the pocket. Most of his passing yards are yac off of a short pass.

Exactly! Kubiak's no dummy, so I wonder what he's really thinking about his QB situation. Without question, every team is going to pressure/rattle Carr because- even w/o sacks (1 in 2 games)- he still does not have a verticle passing game. Hey, at least he's not running out of bounds with the ball behind the line of scrimmage...yet.

 

[DRAMA]

I'll do it! OK...not really.

Carr starts against Philly ...... anybody want to put their Carr 2002 rookie card on this baby?????

 

[Ibar_Harry]

It's kinda of funny me and my gf was talking about this last night... She was a die-hard Carr fan.. no matter all the Young talk she was all about Carr but for the first time there was another twinkle in her eye Sage Rosenfels. She said to me..

"We should consider putting that guy in instead of Carr".. I then explained to her "Look Sage plays against 2nd team players and Carr plays against 1st team players, that's a big difference".. and this is the part that caught my attention she then replies.. "Well it doesnt matter who he's playing against the guys throwing the most accurate passes that I've seen, did you see that long pass to that Lewis guy? What does it matter who you're playing against when you can throw a pass that beatiful??"

So I thought about and instead of being so "Carr-Tunnel-Visioned" that conversation open my eyes.. Sage knows how to the read defense and he's a very accurate passer. Does it really matter if it's Champ Bailey or Undrafted John Doe? if you read the defense correctly and you put the ball where only your reciever can get to it then the answer is no. Cause if you look on that long bomb to Derrick Lewis the only way that defender was getting a hand on that is if he had a jet pack strapped to him.. and I dont think they've made those legal yet..

So I'm not saying off with Carr's head or anything like that I'm saying that if Carr is not working out i'm not as hesitate to put Rosenfels in there cause i'm confident he'll do a solid job.

Again a lot of QB's start slow and even Payton does at times. What I'm judging by is what they did when it was all said and done. When Carr left the game we have a 7 point lead. When the game was over we had a 7 point lead. With less than 2 minutes to go Carr got us down into field goal range and we kicked a field goal with a few seconds left on the clock. That was a game winning type of drive.

His work in the 2nd QTR was quite good. The drives were quality with few mistakes. If I recall correctly the failed 1st drive that lead to the missed field goal actually had a penalty which cost us the drive when we got near the end zone. I believe it was holding by Lundy.

The Team, coaches and Carr had to adjust to what the Rams were doing at the beginning of the game. It always takes some time, especially when you have nothing to study, to figure out what is going to work against your opposition. The Rams are also under new coaching. Sage had the time to watch what was happening by the time he came into the game plus our offensive line had calmed down and was playing well.

Finally, I agree that Sage is not talentless. On the other hand he did not increase the lead but we maintained it and won. However, at the critical juncture of the game the fact is I believe he was 3 and out on the last two drives and we were lucky to win with a fine goal line stand. Yes, he began strong, but he finished weak. Carr began weak, but finished strong. I guess its all in the eyes of the beholder.

Think a little bit because there is more to this game. We all have our prejudices and I certainly have mine. I think Carr is a lot better than many of you will ever understand.

 

[tsip]

Of course not. There was enough blame to go around: poor play calling, poor protection schemes, poorly designed plays, bad blitz pickups by the RB's, receivers not getting open, Carr not getting rid of the ball quick enough, Carr not making the correct reads quick enough, Carr running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage or eating the ball instead of throwing the ball away, etc., etc.

BUT... over the years, the line also played very, very poorly.

In general, where you choose to put the majority of the blame is usually the dividing line on whether you're pro or anti Carr. I personally think that our line played so poorly and Carr took so many sacks because of bad coaching so I'm in favor of Carr getting another chance. Some people think that the sacks are mostly Carr's fault because he's a bad player, so they're anti-Carr... or pro-Sage at this point.

Ok, he's not getting sacked now plus all the new 'great' things around him, so when will we see different results on the field by Carr?...just curious.

 

[thunderkyss]

I did not like Carr almost getting sacked and fumbling in field goal range ... that ball has got to be out of there . I believe Carr has not found his happy place , he's been either to slow with his reads or he looks like a T.Rex throwing just to get rid of the ball .

To me the ? is will he settle down or is this as good as it gets . I will also give him the fact that he has taken a beating that is the equal to a mental ruptured ACL .

That wasn't even an almost fumble..... blind commentators, that's all. Even at full speed, you could see that was an incomplete pass.

 

[edo783]

just curious.

No your not. You are just interested in starting some sort of puzzing contest so you can continue to slamm Carr.

 

[Wolf]

Ok, he's not getting sacked now plus all the new 'great' things around him, so when will we see different results on the field by Carr?...just curious.

new system is taking some time, yet if it gets to say week 6 and Carr isn't making the right reads and his struggling, I could see Kubiak not afraid to put Sage in..

I am not saying this needs to be done or not be done, I am saying Kubiak seems like a guy that will do what is best for the team and not keep someone just because of their contract or status IMO..

 

[Jwwillis]

Well, look at it this way, with largely the same players that have been here*, our line suddenly looks at least serviceable. To me, that points to better coaching (play calling, play design, coaching the people, personnel decisions, etc.) and tends to discount that the problem was with the personnel.

* Right now, Spencer and Winston aren't really 1st stringers so they don't really count as personnel changes, yet. The biggest 1st string change is the addition of Flanagan, the rest of the guys were here but not used correctly or put into positions to be successful.

Sounds like all you are saying is the o-line is learning faster than Carr.

 

[tsip]

That wasn't even an almost fumble..... blind commentators, that's all. Even at full speed, you could see that was an incomplete pass.

...rule change in the NFL on QB fumble--if the QB's arm is hit BEFORE the arm comes forward and the ball is knocked out, it's a fumble even if the QB's arm continues forward