infantrycak
Hall of Fame
To ignore the difference between what he did and average is even more specious.
Pick either D or Wilson and get rid of one, or make it average, and the Seahawks don't sniff the SB.
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Russell Wilson
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To ignore the difference between what he did and average is even more specious.
Pick either D or Wilson and get rid of one, or make it average, and the Seahawks don't sniff the SB.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
An average QB doesn't make $20M. Neither should he. He is competent and above average. But so are many on the TEAM.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pardon me if I ignore the opinion of the little boy with his eyes shut and his fingers in his ears yelling nah, nah, nah because no QB is worth $20 mil.
Stick Staubach in a time machine and start him and the Texans are top 4 contenders. That's worth $20 mil.
"Wilson's average, average, average! QBs suck!"
Is this where the thread has gone? I think the only way anyone's convinced that Wilson's any good is if he gets injured and the Seahawks go 6-10. Which in that division, they probably would.
There's only 46 on game day.
Others believe if a team loses their starting QB they're in dire straits. Im guessing you don't believe that's true, concerning Russell Wilson. If he weren't in Seattle, that #1 defense & Marshawn Lynch would have carried them to two Super Bowls?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
No, it is not.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I know that to be true during the regular season, but I don't recall seeing a list of inactive players during the playoffs. But I could be wrong there.
Truth of the matter, IMHO, is that all three components, good D, strong running game (of which Wilson was a key component), and smart triggerman were all critical components to their success.
And, right or wrong, smart, winning trigger men are awarded big salaries in today's modern day, offense-obsessed, QB-worshipping NFL.
In addition to those "smart, winning trigger men" getting paid, Jay Cutler, Tony Romo, & Andy Dalton are also lining their pockets.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ummm, Romo is a damn good QB. He led the league last year in TD%, YPA, rating, QBR and completion %.
Last year, but he was paid before he accomplished any of that. He was struggling to get them to the play-offs when he got paid.
& still, I'm not arguing he shouldn't have... only that Wilson is just as, if not more deserving.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
The team was struggling. He had already been to the probowl 3 times when he got his big payday.
I know. I just don't think Romo belongs in the Cutler/Dalton crowd.
I agree. The elite tag is way over-emphasized. IMO, "elite" is reserved for players who you know will be in the HoF. With regards to QBs, there are only three playing right now that are undoubtedly first ballot HoF.
Player salaries are based on the metric of comparison of same position.
You do understand how the franchise tag works, yeah? It actually matters what other players at the same position make when negotiating salaries. Your little arbitrary fantasy land is not applicable here.
You sound like a Marxist. Not all players are created equal. The fifty-third player on a roster is not the same as a starting QB regardless of how hard you squint your eyes.
I agree. $20M for one person is ridiculous & kudos to the first GM/Franchise who can get a proven Super Bowl winning QB at 26 years old for less.
But it is the nature of the business. The players have negotiated a certain portion of profits should go to the players. It's not a very efficient method, but they use the salary cap to kinda get there. Unfortunately, QBs get the lion's share.
Seattle is going to have to draw a line in the sand, if they truly don't believe Russell Wilson is worth $20M & let him walk. Some other team will pay & we'll see if he can/can not justify that money.
I don't like what we've agreed to pay Jj Watt... again, no one player is worth that kind of money. But as long as he continues to play the way he has the last 3 or 4 years, it takes the sting away... a little.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Pretty much how I see this thread spiraled.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Russell Wilson, QB,Seattle Seahawks
Wilson and the Seahawks are reportedly at an impasse in contract negotiations. According to anonymous sources, the Seahawks have offered Wilson in the neighborhood of $80 million over four years.
Wilson can make a case that he should be the highest-paid player in football where his new deal eclipses the extensions signed by Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. Rodgers, who signed his extension with the Green Bay Packers in 2013, averages $22 million in yearly salary. Roethlisberger recently received a four-year, $87.4 million extension from the Pittsburgh Steelers that includes $64 million in contract guarantees.
Being in the best quarterback discussion isn't a prerequisite for becoming the NFL's highest-paid player. Wilson has just as many Super Bowl victories with better statistics and more accolades than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning had when their big deals made them, at the time, the league's highest-paid player.
Flacco signed a six-year, $120.6 million contract, including $51 million in guarantees, after capping off a stellar postseason in 2012, his contract year, by being named Super Bowl XLVII MVP. Nobody was considering Flacco as an elite quarterback at the time. Eli Manning was arguably a top-10 quarterback when the New York Giants gave him a six-year, $97.5 million contract extension in 2009.
Contract structure could be as big of an issue as the overall compensation for Wilson. Seattle contracts typically are structured where the guaranteed money consists of base salary guarantees and a signing bonus. Approximately 30 percent of the guarantees are signing bonus with the team's best players on long-term deals. Base salary guarantees after the first contract year are for injury only initially at signing in most instances, but become fully guaranteed five days after the start of the waiver period in each specific year. The waiver period always begins the day after the Super Bowl.
It may be necessary for the Seahawks to make structural concessions so Wilson is treated like quarterbacks with lucrative contracts. $40 million to $45 million is fully guaranteed at signing in top quarterback deals. These dynamics make Wilson playing out the final year of his four-year rookie contract for $1.542 million a distinct possibility. Wilson is the NFL's biggest bargain. He has made a little under $2.2 million in his three NFL seasons.
The Seahawks would have to decide whether to use a non-exclusive or an exclusive franchise tag on Wilson in 2016 if he plays out his contract. It would be a huge risk to place a non-exclusive franchise tag on Wilson because a team potentially in dire need of a quarterback with an abundance of salary cap room might be willing to give up two first-round picks by signing him to an offer sheet that the Seahawks could have a hard time matching. Negotiating with other teams is prohibited when the exclusive franchise tag is used.
Under the exclusive franchise tag, a player will receive a one year offer from his team that is the greater of the average of the top five salaries at his position once the restricted free agent signing period of the current year has ended (April 24 for 2015) or 120 percent of his prior year's salary. The exclusive franchise tag currently projects to $25.18 million in 2016 but will decrease if any of the quarterbacks with the five highest 2016 salaries are released or rework contracts to lower salary cap numbers before the 2016 franchise tag designation period ends (March 2 this year). Based on the projected number, a second franchise tag for Wilson in 2017 would be $30.216 million, a 20 percent increase over his 2016 franchise number. A third franchise tag with a 44 percent increase over the 2017 figure would be unrealistic. The average of franchising Wilson twice exclusively, especially if he has another good season in 2015, could be used as justification for a long-term deal in excess of $25 million per year next offseason.
The Seahawks don't have to worry about Wilson holding out. A year of service towards free agency isn't earned when a player doesn't report to his team at least 30 days prior to NFL's first regular season game (August 11 reporting date this year). Missing this deadline and playing out his rookie deal would make Wilson a restricted free agent in 2016. The Seahawks would likely give him a restricted free agent tender where they would get a first-round pick, which will be between $3.522 million and $3.689 million next year, from a team signing him to an offer sheet that isn't matched. Getting the year of service isn't a concern for holdouts with four or more years of service. These players already have enough service time to qualify for unrestricted free agency.
Wilson can make a case that he should be the highest-paid player in football where his new deal eclipses the extensions signed by Aaron Rodgers and Ben Roethlisberger. Rodgers, who signed his extension with the Green Bay Packers in 2013, averages $22 million in yearly salary. Roethlisberger recently received a four-year, $87.4 million extension from the Pittsburgh Steelers that includes $64 million in contract guarantees.
Being in the best quarterback discussion isn't a prerequisite for becoming the NFL's highest-paid player. Wilson has just as many Super Bowl victories with better statistics and more accolades than Joe Flacco and Eli Manning had when their big deals made them, at the time, the league's highest-paid player.
Flacco signed a six-year, $120.6 million contract, including $51 million in guarantees, after capping off a stellar postseason in 2012, his contract year, by being named Super Bowl XLVII MVP. Nobody was considering Flacco as an elite quarterback at the time. Eli Manning was arguably a top-10 quarterback when the New York Giants gave him a six-year, $97.5 million contract extension in 2009.
Contract structure could be as big of an issue as the overall compensation for Wilson. Seattle contracts typically are structured where the guaranteed money consists of base salary guarantees and a signing bonus. Approximately 30 percent of the guarantees are signing bonus with the team's best players on long-term deals. Base salary guarantees after the first contract year are for injury only initially at signing in most instances, but become fully guaranteed five days after the start of the waiver period in each specific year. The waiver period always begins the day after the Super Bowl.
It may be necessary for the Seahawks to make structural concessions so Wilson is treated like quarterbacks with lucrative contracts. $40 million to $45 million is fully guaranteed at signing in top quarterback deals. These dynamics make Wilson playing out the final year of his four-year rookie contract for $1.542 million a distinct possibility. Wilson is the NFL's biggest bargain. He has made a little under $2.2 million in his three NFL seasons.
The Seahawks would have to decide whether to use a non-exclusive or an exclusive franchise tag on Wilson in 2016 if he plays out his contract. It would be a huge risk to place a non-exclusive franchise tag on Wilson because a team potentially in dire need of a quarterback with an abundance of salary cap room might be willing to give up two first-round picks by signing him to an offer sheet that the Seahawks could have a hard time matching. Negotiating with other teams is prohibited when the exclusive franchise tag is used.
Under the exclusive franchise tag, a player will receive a one year offer from his team that is the greater of the average of the top five salaries at his position once the restricted free agent signing period of the current year has ended (April 24 for 2015) or 120 percent of his prior year's salary. The exclusive franchise tag currently projects to $25.18 million in 2016 but will decrease if any of the quarterbacks with the five highest 2016 salaries are released or rework contracts to lower salary cap numbers before the 2016 franchise tag designation period ends (March 2 this year). Based on the projected number, a second franchise tag for Wilson in 2017 would be $30.216 million, a 20 percent increase over his 2016 franchise number. A third franchise tag with a 44 percent increase over the 2017 figure would be unrealistic. The average of franchising Wilson twice exclusively, especially if he has another good season in 2015, could be used as justification for a long-term deal in excess of $25 million per year next offseason.
The Seahawks don't have to worry about Wilson holding out. A year of service towards free agency isn't earned when a player doesn't report to his team at least 30 days prior to NFL's first regular season game (August 11 reporting date this year). Missing this deadline and playing out his rookie deal would make Wilson a restricted free agent in 2016. The Seahawks would likely give him a restricted free agent tender where they would get a first-round pick, which will be between $3.522 million and $3.689 million next year, from a team signing him to an offer sheet that isn't matched. Getting the year of service isn't a concern for holdouts with four or more years of service. These players already have enough service time to qualify for unrestricted free agency.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
The Looming Standoff: Russell Wilson vs. Seattle
By Peter King
By Peter King
Doubts are starting to grow about the QB’s long-term future with the Seahawks. Here are three reasons I think contract talks may be in trouble. Plus, examining the Niner exodus, a Fathers Day preview and commencement speech snippets
In my last column for a spell—hooray! (your emotion, not mine)—I’ve got a couple of annual events. First: My collection of commencement speech snippets, from the Self-Deprecating Graduation Line of the Year by former President Bush (the younger) at the Southern Methodist University graduation, to the best advice I’ve read from any speaker this year, by ABC News correspondent Martha Raddatz to the Kenyon College grads in Ohio. Second: Part one of the annual Fathers Day book review section, a really interesting book by St. Louis Cardinals manager Mike Matheny on the crisis in youth sports and his little-engine-that-could recipe to fix it.
I always love those two sections; usually I have them in different columns, but the way the calendar worked this year they’ll appear in the same week. Now, I didn’t want a 12,000-word June column, so the Matheny review is today and I plan to cover the rest of the books Wednesday in my weekly mailbag column.
Of course, I could lead this week with the continued dissolution of the 49ers, with another premature retirement and the trade of three-time all-pro punter Andy Lee. While I’ll address the Niners here, I’m leading with another ominous note regarding an NFC West team that’s not getting much attention. And maybe it shouldn’t. Yet.
But something about the dragged-out and apparently fruitless negotiations between Seattle and quarterback Russell Wilson is starting to raise alarm bells. And the new deal between Carolina and quarterback Cam Newton just exacerbates the issue, whether the Seahawks see it that way or not.
In April, general manager John Schneider was asked on KIRO radio about the Wilson negotiations. The Seattle quarterback is due $1.542 million this year, the final season of his four-year rookie contract. It’s been thought for some time that 2015 would be when a new Wilson deal would get done, seeing that the first opportunity to re-do the contract of a third-round player who has monstrously outperformed his deal is in year four. That’s now.
What Schneider said is something he’s said a thousand times, in various forms. No one is bigger than the team. Basically, that’s what he said on KIRO. “Every negotiation is unique in and of itself, and this is no different,” Schneider said. “He’s our quarterback. We’d love him to be our quarterback. But the thing is, we need to keep as many of these guys together as we possibly can … We have to be able to protect ourselves as we go and make smart decisions in trying to keep this whole thing together as long as we possibly can.”
Any general manager worth his salary would say that. And Schneider is one of the best in the game—maybe the best. He believes in his eye for players and has been right on so many beyond the first round who became the infrastructure of a two-time Super Bowl team: Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, K.J. Wright.
I still don’t think it was a body blow to the negotiations, but imagine you’re Wilson.
At North Carolina State, in each of your freshman and sophomore and junior years, you lead the Atlantic Coast Conference in touchdown passes, and in the spring before your senior season, while you’re playing minor-league baseball, your football coach, Tom O’Brien, releases you from your scholarship so he can have backup Mike Glennon start for the last two years of his eligibility.
At Wisconsin, where Wilson transfers, he earns one of the Badger captain nods after just 19 days of summer practice. He throws 33 touchdown passes and four interceptions, completes 73 percent of his throws, leads Wisconsin to the Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl berth … and is the 75th player picked in the 2012 NFL Draft. Five spots after the quarterback-needy Jaguars take a punter.
I walk into Wisconsin in July, learn the offense in about 10 minutes, set the NCAA passing-efficiency record for a season, get the Badgers to the Rose Bowl, and five quarterbacks get picked before me? Brandon Weeden goes 53 picks before me? I’ll show the NFL.
At Seattle, Wilson wins the starting job in his rookie training camp over high-priced free agent Matt Flynn. He quarterbacks his team to the playoffs in each of his first three years, to the NFC title in two seasons, and to the Super Bowl title in one of those seasons. In all three years, he’s in the top 10 in the league in passer rating. He quarterbacks his team to more wins, overall, than any other quarterback in football—Wilson 42, Tom Brady 41, Peyton Manning 40—including playoffs. (I know quarterback wins can be a misleading stat. But if you play well enough to win big, and Wilson has, is that a number that should be ignored?) And by all accounts, Wilson and the Seahawks aren’t close to a deal. Oh, and Cam Newton, four games over .500 in the same three years that I’m 28 over, just signed a contract with $56 million coming in the first two years.
My franchise had finished below .500 four straight years before I got here, and we’re 42-14 with two trips to the Super Bowl in my time, and we can’t get a deal done? I’ll show management.
There’s an interesting factor at work here. Wilson’s representative, Mark Rodgers, is a baseball agent, a lawyer who got to know Wilson in his fledgling career as a minor-league second baseman in the Rockies’ system. We’ve had several conversations about the differences between baseball and football contracts. He’s never had any fear taking his baseball clients to the market. At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.
Of course, free agency in the NFL is far different from baseball free agency. In the past 10 years, one quarterback with legitimate franchise potential—Drew Brees, in 2006—hit the market, and that came in large part because of a serious shoulder injury in 2005 in San Diego. Quarterbacks of value always re-sign with their teams.
There’s little question, to me, that Wilson will be the Seattle quarterback through the end of the 2016 season. If no deal gets done this year, he’ll play for $1.5 million in 2015, and if the two sides can’t agree after the season, Seattle’s very likely to franchise him the exclusive-rights number of about $24.5 million for 2016. That’s a best guess. The exclusive-rights tag would be vital, of course, because in unrestricted free agency Wilson could get stolen for two first-round picks by some team.
Rodgers was mum on terms or any detailed state of the negotiations when we spoke over the weekend. Rodgers said he didn’t think Newton’s deal was one that would force Wilson’s deal to get done, the same way he said Ryan Tannehill’s extension in Miami (he was drafted the same year as Wilson) wouldn’t be a spur to get Wilson’s deal done. Rodgers sounded conciliatory when I asked about the state of the talks. “There’s no deadline, no pressure,” Rodgers said. “Russell has a contract for this season, and he is fully prepared to play the season out if he does not sign another contract. It’s early June. They don’t report to camp till late July. I’ve always assumed this contract would take a while to get done.”
But beyond that, as we sit here a year and a half before that Molotov cocktail could be lobbed into the Pacific Northwest, I have some growing doubts about Wilson’s long-term Seattle future.
Three reasons why I think the talks between Wilson and the Seahawks could be in trouble:
I always love those two sections; usually I have them in different columns, but the way the calendar worked this year they’ll appear in the same week. Now, I didn’t want a 12,000-word June column, so the Matheny review is today and I plan to cover the rest of the books Wednesday in my weekly mailbag column.
Of course, I could lead this week with the continued dissolution of the 49ers, with another premature retirement and the trade of three-time all-pro punter Andy Lee. While I’ll address the Niners here, I’m leading with another ominous note regarding an NFC West team that’s not getting much attention. And maybe it shouldn’t. Yet.
But something about the dragged-out and apparently fruitless negotiations between Seattle and quarterback Russell Wilson is starting to raise alarm bells. And the new deal between Carolina and quarterback Cam Newton just exacerbates the issue, whether the Seahawks see it that way or not.
In April, general manager John Schneider was asked on KIRO radio about the Wilson negotiations. The Seattle quarterback is due $1.542 million this year, the final season of his four-year rookie contract. It’s been thought for some time that 2015 would be when a new Wilson deal would get done, seeing that the first opportunity to re-do the contract of a third-round player who has monstrously outperformed his deal is in year four. That’s now.
What Schneider said is something he’s said a thousand times, in various forms. No one is bigger than the team. Basically, that’s what he said on KIRO. “Every negotiation is unique in and of itself, and this is no different,” Schneider said. “He’s our quarterback. We’d love him to be our quarterback. But the thing is, we need to keep as many of these guys together as we possibly can … We have to be able to protect ourselves as we go and make smart decisions in trying to keep this whole thing together as long as we possibly can.”
Any general manager worth his salary would say that. And Schneider is one of the best in the game—maybe the best. He believes in his eye for players and has been right on so many beyond the first round who became the infrastructure of a two-time Super Bowl team: Wilson, Bobby Wagner, Richard Sherman, Kam Chancellor, Doug Baldwin, K.J. Wright.
I still don’t think it was a body blow to the negotiations, but imagine you’re Wilson.
At North Carolina State, in each of your freshman and sophomore and junior years, you lead the Atlantic Coast Conference in touchdown passes, and in the spring before your senior season, while you’re playing minor-league baseball, your football coach, Tom O’Brien, releases you from your scholarship so he can have backup Mike Glennon start for the last two years of his eligibility.
I threw 76 touchdown passes for him in three years, but O’Brien thinks Mike Glennon’s better than I am? I’ll show Tom O’Brien.
At Wisconsin, where Wilson transfers, he earns one of the Badger captain nods after just 19 days of summer practice. He throws 33 touchdown passes and four interceptions, completes 73 percent of his throws, leads Wisconsin to the Big Ten title and a Rose Bowl berth … and is the 75th player picked in the 2012 NFL Draft. Five spots after the quarterback-needy Jaguars take a punter.
I walk into Wisconsin in July, learn the offense in about 10 minutes, set the NCAA passing-efficiency record for a season, get the Badgers to the Rose Bowl, and five quarterbacks get picked before me? Brandon Weeden goes 53 picks before me? I’ll show the NFL.
At Seattle, Wilson wins the starting job in his rookie training camp over high-priced free agent Matt Flynn. He quarterbacks his team to the playoffs in each of his first three years, to the NFC title in two seasons, and to the Super Bowl title in one of those seasons. In all three years, he’s in the top 10 in the league in passer rating. He quarterbacks his team to more wins, overall, than any other quarterback in football—Wilson 42, Tom Brady 41, Peyton Manning 40—including playoffs. (I know quarterback wins can be a misleading stat. But if you play well enough to win big, and Wilson has, is that a number that should be ignored?) And by all accounts, Wilson and the Seahawks aren’t close to a deal. Oh, and Cam Newton, four games over .500 in the same three years that I’m 28 over, just signed a contract with $56 million coming in the first two years.
My franchise had finished below .500 four straight years before I got here, and we’re 42-14 with two trips to the Super Bowl in my time, and we can’t get a deal done? I’ll show management.
There’s an interesting factor at work here. Wilson’s representative, Mark Rodgers, is a baseball agent, a lawyer who got to know Wilson in his fledgling career as a minor-league second baseman in the Rockies’ system. We’ve had several conversations about the differences between baseball and football contracts. He’s never had any fear taking his baseball clients to the market. At one point last year, the Red Sox were offering a client, lefty reliever Andrew Miller, what seemed to be a mint (three years, $19 million), but Rodgers was convinced he could get more on the market. Sure enough, the Yankees signed Miller for four years and $36 million—and that wasn’t even the highest offer out there for Miller. Ditto, with different numbers, for client Jeff Samardzija, who waited and didn’t get the multiyear offer Rodgers thought was right; Samardzija signed for a year and $9.8 million, and he will play this deal out and hit the market again if the Chicago White Sox don’t pay something very close to what Rodgers thinks he can get for his player on the market.
Of course, free agency in the NFL is far different from baseball free agency. In the past 10 years, one quarterback with legitimate franchise potential—Drew Brees, in 2006—hit the market, and that came in large part because of a serious shoulder injury in 2005 in San Diego. Quarterbacks of value always re-sign with their teams.
There’s little question, to me, that Wilson will be the Seattle quarterback through the end of the 2016 season. If no deal gets done this year, he’ll play for $1.5 million in 2015, and if the two sides can’t agree after the season, Seattle’s very likely to franchise him the exclusive-rights number of about $24.5 million for 2016. That’s a best guess. The exclusive-rights tag would be vital, of course, because in unrestricted free agency Wilson could get stolen for two first-round picks by some team.
Rodgers was mum on terms or any detailed state of the negotiations when we spoke over the weekend. Rodgers said he didn’t think Newton’s deal was one that would force Wilson’s deal to get done, the same way he said Ryan Tannehill’s extension in Miami (he was drafted the same year as Wilson) wouldn’t be a spur to get Wilson’s deal done. Rodgers sounded conciliatory when I asked about the state of the talks. “There’s no deadline, no pressure,” Rodgers said. “Russell has a contract for this season, and he is fully prepared to play the season out if he does not sign another contract. It’s early June. They don’t report to camp till late July. I’ve always assumed this contract would take a while to get done.”
But beyond that, as we sit here a year and a half before that Molotov cocktail could be lobbed into the Pacific Northwest, I have some growing doubts about Wilson’s long-term Seattle future.
Three reasons why I think the talks between Wilson and the Seahawks could be in trouble:
- Rodgers is a baseball guy, and it’s clear he loves the prospect of his players maximizing their value on the open market … some day. As does Wilson. I don’t know what Rodgers wants, but I can assume it must be close to making Wilson the highest-paid quarterback in football. This is a little complicated. The highest-paid player in football today, in average compensation, is Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers, at $22.0 million. He signed the contract in 2013, when the league’s salary cap was $123 million. Suppose Wilson signed a deal averaging $22 million per. This year the cap is $143.3 million. Rodgers’ deal, in year one, was for 17.8 percent of the Packers’ cap. Wilson’s $22 million average deal, if that’s anything near what he wants, would be for 15.4 percent of the Seahawks’ 2015 cap. I only say that because it’s fair to think Mark Rodgers would be taking into account the fact that teams have $20 million more to spend this year, and the cap is only going to go up.
- Schneider is a football guy, schooled in the Ron Wolf/Ted Thompson way of personnel management. All three understand you don’t win without a quarterback. But Schneider watched Wolf make cold-hearted decisions when needed. He watched Thompson stick with the unproven Aaron Rodgers when the momentarily retired Brett Favre wanted to come back to the Packers in the summer of 2008. Schneider is proud as heck of sticking his neck out for Wilson, but his “we’d love him to be our quarterback but…” statement this spring sounds very much like a man who believes in sticking to the value the team sets for a player, whatever it is.
- This opinion from Mark Rodgers: “Sometimes, the best deal is the deal you don’t do. For me, there would be a greater disappointment in taking a below-market deal than there would be in honoring the fourth year of a contract.” This is not how an agent talks if he’s thinking of taking a hometown-discount deal for his client.
All I’m trying to do is read tea leaves. I don’t know where this is headed. And Seahawks fans, a lot can happen in two years. But I’d ask you this: What if Wilson wants Aaron Rodgers money now, and a deal doesn’t get done, and what if Wilson in 2015 simply does what he’s done in each of his first three seasons—have a passer rating near 100, make the playoffs and get the team in or close to the Super Bowl? What happens then, when the cap will be at least $30 million higher than it was when Aaron Rodgers signed his deal? Let’s just say I doubt the asking price will be the same next year as it is now. It’ll be higher. So that’s a spur for the Seahawks to get something done this offseason.
I would have liked to get Schneider’s point of view on this. But he declined comment when I reached out Sunday.
Many of you might be wondering why I’m writing about Wilson and not Andrew Luck, who, like Wilson, doesn’t have a new long-term deal either. The difference is, as a first-round pick, Luck can have a fifth year automatically added to the contract at a pre-set number, which the Colts did two months ago. Luck will make $3.4 million this year and $16 million next year, and owner Jim Irsay—who absolutely, categorically, will not let Luck out the door—said earlier this year it’s likely the Colts will get serious on trying to get a long-term deal done with Luck early in 2016. Contracts for players taken after the first round do not have fifth-year options. So for Wilson, it’s either a new deal or some form of free agency in 2016.
I don’t often write about contract stuff, and I’m not convinced in any way that Wilson and the Seahawks are headed for splitsville. But I find it a compelling story, and an important one for the future of the NFC’s flagship franchise today.
I would have liked to get Schneider’s point of view on this. But he declined comment when I reached out Sunday.
Many of you might be wondering why I’m writing about Wilson and not Andrew Luck, who, like Wilson, doesn’t have a new long-term deal either. The difference is, as a first-round pick, Luck can have a fifth year automatically added to the contract at a pre-set number, which the Colts did two months ago. Luck will make $3.4 million this year and $16 million next year, and owner Jim Irsay—who absolutely, categorically, will not let Luck out the door—said earlier this year it’s likely the Colts will get serious on trying to get a long-term deal done with Luck early in 2016. Contracts for players taken after the first round do not have fifth-year options. So for Wilson, it’s either a new deal or some form of free agency in 2016.
I don’t often write about contract stuff, and I’m not convinced in any way that Wilson and the Seahawks are headed for splitsville. But I find it a compelling story, and an important one for the future of the NFC’s flagship franchise today.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He'll get paid. This is all just media filler until then.
When was the last time a top QB in his prime was allowed to walk?
When was the last time a top QB in his prime was allowed to walk?
I don't think walking is part of the equation. He's got a year left on his deal, then the Seahawks have the exclusive rights franchise tag.
That's what I'm waiting to see. If he plays 2015 for $1.5M, & how close, if at all, they get to tagging him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
My question is about ultimate outcome not this season. Name a young top tier QB who didn't get a deal and ended up leaving?
There's only two possible results here - huge trade and huge deal.
I agree with you. I don't think "allowed to walk" is even a remote possibility. I think the Seahawks are going to be cheap, like McNair, & not pay Wilson until they absolutely have to. They're not going to pay him more money this year, then try to get him to sign something next year to avoid a $24M cap hit.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
PFF @PFF
In his career, Russell Wilson has faced pressure on 43.2% of his dropbacks, more than any other QB over that span. http://t.co/tN0ictkj2Q
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Game manager.
Wait, I thought all those high draft picks on the OL were what made that team.
No it was the secondary and Lynch that carried that team
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's not the plot from some around here. You can spot them in the draft section - there are only 5 OL and 4 DL positions ever worthy of being selected in the 1st.
The Seahawks' greatest advantage was a coaching brilliance - a gamble the refs would only throw so many flags a game. It was a classic Jimmy Johnson type move (he did it with Irvin 'creating' separation. Morris could be Sherman if we would suck up a penalty or two a game. All the sudden Smith would be hailed as a hero when it had nothing to do with him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
MMQB/SI: Robert Klemko
...
3. I think the Seahawks ultimately will franchise Russell Wilson in 2016 after his rookie contract expires, then let him walk in free agency. Based on the numbers I’m hearing out of the current contract talks, Wilson wants to be paid like the type of quarterback who would excel in any offense, without a world-class defense and an All-Pro running back. And despite all of Wilson’s successes, I don’t think John Schneider and his coaches are convinced he’s that kind of quarterback.
3. I think the Seahawks ultimately will franchise Russell Wilson in 2016 after his rookie contract expires, then let him walk in free agency. Based on the numbers I’m hearing out of the current contract talks, Wilson wants to be paid like the type of quarterback who would excel in any offense, without a world-class defense and an All-Pro running back. And despite all of Wilson’s successes, I don’t think John Schneider and his coaches are convinced he’s that kind of quarterback.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Who was the last top half of the league QB who was allowed to walk?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
The Seahawks would be stupid not to sign him long term.
welsh texan
You may say I’m a dreamer but I’m not the only one
Peyton more recently.
Both with huge injury questions hanging over them at the time though (although I think Brees was pretty much out of the door before the injury).
I'd tend to agree with the system argument. Wilson has benefitted from being schemed incredibly well, and benefitted from a lot of help on D and on the ground.
I don't think it makes sense for either side to want to move on, could take the Seahawks straight to the basement if they suddenly get shoddy QB play, and if Wilson lands in the wrong spot his career is on the line.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This was the 2nd time I asked this question and I forgot to include "young/in their prime" in the question. Manning is out at 36. Brees is the closest example (was 27) and he (a) had a career threatening injury and (b) had effectively been replaced once the 4th pick was spent.
Dr. Andrews said:
So I guess if we add the qualifier "reasonably healthy" to the question the answer becomes - none.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I'll say it right now - Russell Wilson is not a system QB. He would excel in any system. If you've watched him at all, you know how he stymies defensive pressure. He scrambles instead of running. He picks up yardage and TDs with his legs when the situation is appropriate and/or when he has to, but he's a pass-first QB. He's smart, mobile, and he frustrates defenses. Honestly, there are a couple QBs I'd rank right there with him (for different reasons), but there isn't one I'd take ahead of him. He's my favorite QB in the game right now, and I think will prove out to be one of the two best QBs of his generation. I think he and Luck will be the next Manning-Brady, in terms of competing contemporaries.
If you want to talk about a "system", let's talk about Brady. He's put up his best career numbers in what is basically the R&S. Put Russell Wilson in a system and I think he'd excel.
I agree with you. I think Wilson is the special kind of QB that has intangibles that will excel in any system. I do not consider him "elite" right now, but I do agree that he and Luck are right behind Brady/Manning/Rodgers to take the mantle when the first two retire.
A great QB can get you in the playoffs every year. A great QB + running game + great defense = championships. But having a great running game and defense should not diminish what a great QB can accomplish. We just saw last season with the Texans what a great running game and good defense does without a good QB. They go 9-7 and miss the playoffs.
If I got to choose our QB of the future, it would either be Luck or Wilson right now. I wouldn't be shocked if they are the starting QBs in next season's Super Bowl.
texan279
Hall of Fame
Agent doesn’t deny notion that Russell Wilson wants to be NFL’s highest-paid player
As Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson enters the final year of his rookie contract, the team and Wilson’s agent have embarked on an awkward negotiation that could result in Wilson leaving the Seahawks. Part of the problem is that Mark Rodgers works as a baseball agent who hasn’t actively represented NFL players in years; his relationship with the Seahawks lacks the immediate trust that would arise from the regular back-and-forth associated with repeated negotiations and communications on behalf of multiple clients, from potential draft picks to existing clients to looming unrestricted free agents to street free agents.
Part of the problem is that Wilson wants to be paid a lot of money. Apparently a lot more than the Seahawks want to pay him.
According to Jason Cole of Bleacher Report (via CBSSports.com), Rodgers does not deny the perception/rumor/speculation that Wilson wants to be the highest paid player in all of football. That title currently belongs to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, who signed more than two years ago a five-year, $110 million extension, an average of $22 million per year.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-wilson-wants-to-be-nfls-highest-paid-player/
As Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson enters the final year of his rookie contract, the team and Wilson’s agent have embarked on an awkward negotiation that could result in Wilson leaving the Seahawks. Part of the problem is that Mark Rodgers works as a baseball agent who hasn’t actively represented NFL players in years; his relationship with the Seahawks lacks the immediate trust that would arise from the regular back-and-forth associated with repeated negotiations and communications on behalf of multiple clients, from potential draft picks to existing clients to looming unrestricted free agents to street free agents.
Part of the problem is that Wilson wants to be paid a lot of money. Apparently a lot more than the Seahawks want to pay him.
According to Jason Cole of Bleacher Report (via CBSSports.com), Rodgers does not deny the perception/rumor/speculation that Wilson wants to be the highest paid player in all of football. That title currently belongs to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers, who signed more than two years ago a five-year, $110 million extension, an average of $22 million per year.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-wilson-wants-to-be-nfls-highest-paid-player/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Thirded.
I really hate "did not deny" headlines.
"texan279's lawyer did not deny he stopped beating his wife in 2014"
texan279
Hall of Fame
Funding rule hovers over Russell Wilson talks
Apart from the significant gap in the raw dollars between what Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson currently wants and what the team currently is willing to pay, another major issue looms over the negotiations.
Per multiple sources, Wilson is looking for a considerable portion of the contract to be fully guaranteed. While he’s not asking for the entire deal to be fully guaranteed, it’s a larger portion than traditional veteran contracts.
It’s become a stumbling block not because of the guarantee itself but because of the league’s funding rule, which requires almost every penny of any future payments guaranteed for skill, injury, and cap to be paid into escrow upon signing. While Seahawks owner Paul Allen, the richest of the very rich men who control NFL franchises, can afford to put the money aside ahead of time, multiple sources tell PFT he doesn’t want to.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/27/funding-rule-hovers-over-russell-wilson-talks/
Apart from the significant gap in the raw dollars between what Seahawks quarterback Russell Wilson currently wants and what the team currently is willing to pay, another major issue looms over the negotiations.
Per multiple sources, Wilson is looking for a considerable portion of the contract to be fully guaranteed. While he’s not asking for the entire deal to be fully guaranteed, it’s a larger portion than traditional veteran contracts.
It’s become a stumbling block not because of the guarantee itself but because of the league’s funding rule, which requires almost every penny of any future payments guaranteed for skill, injury, and cap to be paid into escrow upon signing. While Seahawks owner Paul Allen, the richest of the very rich men who control NFL franchises, can afford to put the money aside ahead of time, multiple sources tell PFT he doesn’t want to.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/27/funding-rule-hovers-over-russell-wilson-talks/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
From the Mike Florio, aka Captain Obvious files:
From the Twilight Zone theater - you know a trade that could actually make sense? - Peyton for Wilson.
The Seahawks are built to not "need" an elite QB...for now...and are at the definition of precipice for winning the SB in the next couple years (Lynch is 29). Peyton wants a 2nd ring and nothing would get him closer.
The Broncos have a great, fairly young team moving to a system built to a T for Wilson.
Not a prediction.
From the Twilight Zone theater - you know a trade that could actually make sense? - Peyton for Wilson.
The Seahawks are built to not "need" an elite QB...for now...and are at the definition of precipice for winning the SB in the next couple years (Lynch is 29). Peyton wants a 2nd ring and nothing would get him closer.
The Broncos have a great, fairly young team moving to a system built to a T for Wilson.
Not a prediction.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Pursuit of big-money contract comes at a cost for Seahawks QB Russell Wilson
Seattle Times
Seattle Times
For the first time, the Wilson image is absorbing some serious puncture wounds. That’s what happens when money and contract negotiations rear their ugly headlines.
Russell Wilson always has been the Unassailable One, presented as the total package of athletic greatness, impeccable decorum and a never-ending reservoir of charm.
The personal narrative is compelling — deemed too small to play quarterback yet persevering through adversity and skepticism by dint of self-confidence and a legendary work ethic (first to arrive, last to leave).
He backed it up not only with unparalleled success on the field, but also with admirable, highly visible community involvement. How can you not love a guy with the highest NFL winning percentage ever after three seasons who also visits sick kids every Tuesday?
That too-good-to-be-true aura was nicked somewhat in April 2014 when Wilson divorced his wife. But in many ways, that merely made him seem more human.
By every measuring stick, Wilson was regarded almost universally among Seahawks fans as a humble overachiever, imbued with an overriding team-first sensibility.
The phrase “Go Hawks!” resonated a clear and distinct image. It’s no wonder that in a survey announced in mid-May by Public Policy Polling, Wilson received a nearly perfect favorability rating from Washington state residents. He got just one unfavorable response, making him, to paraphrase Mary Poppins (which may never have been done before in a sports column), practically perfect in every way.
Now, however, for the first time, the Wilson image is absorbing some serious puncture wounds. That’s what happens when money and contract negotiations rear their ugly headlines.
I’ve heard and read more Wilson backlash in the past three weeks than in the previous three years combined. When it came to throwing an interception on the decisive play of the Super Bowl, Wilson largely got away blame-free. But when a story leaked last week that he wanted to become the highest-paid player in the NFL, well, the notion of a greedy Wilson began to be put forth on talk shows and comment threads.
I’ve even begun to hear some comparisons with Alex Rodriguez, which in these parts is the unkindest cut of all. A-Rod also started out with a too-good-to-be-true reputation in his very early Mariners days, only to slowly be revealed as a fraud in almost every way — most dramatically, in the estimation of Seattle fans, when he took the Rangers’ money and ran.
As these Wilson negotiations drag out, some people seem to be wondering if Wilson is not just a slick, well-packaged mercenary in his own right.
Sure, there also is a contingent of people — perhaps even a majority — who blame the Seahawks for the roadblock: Just pay the man. But when you begin with a positivity rating roughly equal to Mother Teresa, as Wilson did less than two months ago, any erosion of support is noteworthy.
Seems to me much of the criticism is unfair. First of all, none of this talk about his salary demands has come from his own lips (though in some cases his silence has spoken volumes). The media has filled the void with endless debates about Wilson’s contract, fueling heated debates about Wilson’s motivation and worthiness.
That’s not to say Wilson doesn’t believe he should be the highest-paid player. But other than a series of cryptic tweets and ambiguous comments, his true intentions remain hazy. This negotiation seems to be heavy on trying to establish leverage; there’s still time, however, for an amicable, mutually satisfying conclusion that will make all the teeth-gnashing and fretting seem unnecessary, in retrospect.
But there’s also the possibility that this all blows up, or that an impasse carries into the season, and that can’t be just dismissed. In such a case, the increasing deterioration of Wilson’s carefully crafted image would be collateral damage.
The biggest issue is that Wilson has been set up to an impossible standard — some of it by his own doing. His goody-two-shoes reputation might have been unassailable, but it also was unsustainable. Not when real life is sure to intercede. It had to happen eventually.
Wilson is merely doing what the vast majority of athletes do — trying to maximize his earning potential. But for someone who has been portrayed as such a staunch team-first guy, that can seem almost like a betrayal. And particularly in a league with a salary cap, where every financial decision has ramifications far beyond just that transaction. That is ramped up exponentially when you’re talking about an elite quarterback who commands a disproportionate share of the payroll.
So these negotiations will continue to have a cost for Wilson, in terms of image and public perception. But I predict the hits will be merely temporary for most people, as long as the contract is resolved before the season starts and Wilson keeps performing to the same standard as he has been.
The months of unpleasant, messy negotiations eventually will fade in our brains. You know how it is in this age of the 24-hour news cycle. We’ll move on to the next “hot take,” and Wilson will go right back to being what he was before: a great quarterback with a giving heart.
But if these contracts talks get acrimonious, and the impasse rages on? Well, those Wilson favorability ratings inevitably would take a plunge. It’s the cost of doing business.
Russell Wilson always has been the Unassailable One, presented as the total package of athletic greatness, impeccable decorum and a never-ending reservoir of charm.
The personal narrative is compelling — deemed too small to play quarterback yet persevering through adversity and skepticism by dint of self-confidence and a legendary work ethic (first to arrive, last to leave).
He backed it up not only with unparalleled success on the field, but also with admirable, highly visible community involvement. How can you not love a guy with the highest NFL winning percentage ever after three seasons who also visits sick kids every Tuesday?
That too-good-to-be-true aura was nicked somewhat in April 2014 when Wilson divorced his wife. But in many ways, that merely made him seem more human.
By every measuring stick, Wilson was regarded almost universally among Seahawks fans as a humble overachiever, imbued with an overriding team-first sensibility.
The phrase “Go Hawks!” resonated a clear and distinct image. It’s no wonder that in a survey announced in mid-May by Public Policy Polling, Wilson received a nearly perfect favorability rating from Washington state residents. He got just one unfavorable response, making him, to paraphrase Mary Poppins (which may never have been done before in a sports column), practically perfect in every way.
Now, however, for the first time, the Wilson image is absorbing some serious puncture wounds. That’s what happens when money and contract negotiations rear their ugly headlines.
I’ve heard and read more Wilson backlash in the past three weeks than in the previous three years combined. When it came to throwing an interception on the decisive play of the Super Bowl, Wilson largely got away blame-free. But when a story leaked last week that he wanted to become the highest-paid player in the NFL, well, the notion of a greedy Wilson began to be put forth on talk shows and comment threads.
I’ve even begun to hear some comparisons with Alex Rodriguez, which in these parts is the unkindest cut of all. A-Rod also started out with a too-good-to-be-true reputation in his very early Mariners days, only to slowly be revealed as a fraud in almost every way — most dramatically, in the estimation of Seattle fans, when he took the Rangers’ money and ran.
As these Wilson negotiations drag out, some people seem to be wondering if Wilson is not just a slick, well-packaged mercenary in his own right.
Sure, there also is a contingent of people — perhaps even a majority — who blame the Seahawks for the roadblock: Just pay the man. But when you begin with a positivity rating roughly equal to Mother Teresa, as Wilson did less than two months ago, any erosion of support is noteworthy.
Seems to me much of the criticism is unfair. First of all, none of this talk about his salary demands has come from his own lips (though in some cases his silence has spoken volumes). The media has filled the void with endless debates about Wilson’s contract, fueling heated debates about Wilson’s motivation and worthiness.
That’s not to say Wilson doesn’t believe he should be the highest-paid player. But other than a series of cryptic tweets and ambiguous comments, his true intentions remain hazy. This negotiation seems to be heavy on trying to establish leverage; there’s still time, however, for an amicable, mutually satisfying conclusion that will make all the teeth-gnashing and fretting seem unnecessary, in retrospect.
But there’s also the possibility that this all blows up, or that an impasse carries into the season, and that can’t be just dismissed. In such a case, the increasing deterioration of Wilson’s carefully crafted image would be collateral damage.
The biggest issue is that Wilson has been set up to an impossible standard — some of it by his own doing. His goody-two-shoes reputation might have been unassailable, but it also was unsustainable. Not when real life is sure to intercede. It had to happen eventually.
Wilson is merely doing what the vast majority of athletes do — trying to maximize his earning potential. But for someone who has been portrayed as such a staunch team-first guy, that can seem almost like a betrayal. And particularly in a league with a salary cap, where every financial decision has ramifications far beyond just that transaction. That is ramped up exponentially when you’re talking about an elite quarterback who commands a disproportionate share of the payroll.
So these negotiations will continue to have a cost for Wilson, in terms of image and public perception. But I predict the hits will be merely temporary for most people, as long as the contract is resolved before the season starts and Wilson keeps performing to the same standard as he has been.
The months of unpleasant, messy negotiations eventually will fade in our brains. You know how it is in this age of the 24-hour news cycle. We’ll move on to the next “hot take,” and Wilson will go right back to being what he was before: a great quarterback with a giving heart.
But if these contracts talks get acrimonious, and the impasse rages on? Well, those Wilson favorability ratings inevitably would take a plunge. It’s the cost of doing business.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Why don't people record their conversations with God? I mean when people see a UFO they whip out the camera. When you and God are chewing the fat bust out your Iphone and start recording. Hell, while you're at it ask him if you can FaceTime.
I guess I'm a little disappointed in Wilson for being such a narcissist when chatting with God. He could have asked him about the meaning of life, or the nature of evil, or why good people suffer, or heck even simple stuff like evolution, Big Bang, or why did He make mosquitoes?
Noooooo, he just had to ask him about stupid football. Jeez, Russell, think BIG!!
Noooooo, he just had to ask him about stupid football. Jeez, Russell, think BIG!!
texan279
Hall of Fame
Seahawks reportedly make huge contract offer to Russell Wilson
The Seahawks have offered quarterback Russell Wilson a contract offer worth $21 million per year, according to Pro Football Talk.
Wilson is entering the final year of his rookie contract, which would pay him $1.54 million this season. With his new deal, the 2012 third-round pick from Wisconsin would be the NFL's third-highest paid quarterback behind Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers ($22 million per season) and Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger ($21.85 million).
The Seahawks want to get a new deal in place before the team opens training camp on Thursday. Wilson has said he would play out the final year of his contract and has yet to agree to Seattle's latest offer.
If the two sides cannot come to an agreement, Seattle does have the option of placing a franchise tag on Wilson next year, which would pay the quarterback who helped Seattle reach the last two Super Bowls more than $20 million for one season.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-07-25/russell-wilson-contract-seahawks-extension-seattle
The Seahawks have offered quarterback Russell Wilson a contract offer worth $21 million per year, according to Pro Football Talk.
Wilson is entering the final year of his rookie contract, which would pay him $1.54 million this season. With his new deal, the 2012 third-round pick from Wisconsin would be the NFL's third-highest paid quarterback behind Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers ($22 million per season) and Pittsburgh's Ben Roethlisberger ($21.85 million).
The Seahawks want to get a new deal in place before the team opens training camp on Thursday. Wilson has said he would play out the final year of his contract and has yet to agree to Seattle's latest offer.
If the two sides cannot come to an agreement, Seattle does have the option of placing a franchise tag on Wilson next year, which would pay the quarterback who helped Seattle reach the last two Super Bowls more than $20 million for one season.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-07-25/russell-wilson-contract-seahawks-extension-seattle
texan279
Hall of Fame
Pete Prisco @PriscoCBS 5h5 hours ago
If Russell Wilson turned down $21 million a season, he's nuts. Talked with GM who thinks going over $20 million is absurd.
Pete Prisco @PriscoCBS 5h5 hours ago
Manage the Game is not worth $21 million a season. Sorry.
Pete Prisco @PriscoCBS 5h5 hours ago
With that type of foolishness, the Seahawks should just let him play and then tag him. Let him play for $1.2 this season.
If Russell Wilson turned down $21 million a season, he's nuts. Talked with GM who thinks going over $20 million is absurd.
Pete Prisco @PriscoCBS 5h5 hours ago
Manage the Game is not worth $21 million a season. Sorry.
Pete Prisco @PriscoCBS 5h5 hours ago
With that type of foolishness, the Seahawks should just let him play and then tag him. Let him play for $1.2 this season.
I remember when the Jets were in this position with Mark Sanchez. They screwed up & made the wrong decision.