Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Russell Wilson

thunderkyss said:
1. Derek Carr
2. Ryan Tannehill
3. Russell Wilson

That's the way you see it?
Click to expand...

Not at all. My point is that Wilson is not elite. I'd say he is above average, but not elite. He doesn't make mistakes, but it's not like he is airing it out all over the field throwing for 4-5,000 yards a season, Without that defense and Marshawn Lynch, Seattle doesn't even sniff the super bowl.
 
texan279 said:
I can't see paying Wilson more than the 4 year/$80 mil mentioned in the article. Wilson is good, but not elite. He was 15th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in passing TD's last season. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill threw more TD passes last season than Wilson did. Seattle's defense and Marshawn Lynch are the first things I think of when I think of the Seahawks.
Click to expand...

You're completely discounting what Wilson provides with his mobility. He has averaged 40 yards rushing a game over his career. Without that, the Seahawks aren't the #1 rushing team in the league. With Wilson's 800+ rushing yards last season, his total offense was well over 4000 yards and his total TD contribution was 26.

What did the Seahawks do before Russell Wilson? They had a good defense and Marshawn Lynch then. Wilson on the Texans would be worth 3 games in the standings last season. He would turn an average team into a championship contender. He already has. I would absofreakinlutely pay Wilson as a top, winning NFL QB. Because that's who he is.
 
texan279 said:
Not at all. My point is that Wilson is not elite. I'd say he is above average, but not elite. He doesn't make mistakes, but it's not like he is airing it out all over the field throwing for 4-5,000 yards a season, Without that defense and Marshawn Lynch, Seattle doesn't even sniff the super bowl.
Click to expand...

Matt Stafford is throwing the ball around 4~5000 yards a season, Kitna had a stretch where he was doing the same... does that make him elite?


& it's not that I'm saying Wilson is elite, but I think it would be a travesty if his contract is smaller than Jay Cutler's.

Teams aren't paying these guys to throw the ball 5000 yards a season, they're paying them to manage an offense, make good decisions, & win games. He's among the best in the league doing it right now, he should get paid like it.

Then again, if I'm the Seahawks & I keep losing players & coaches... I can see why they wouldn't want to lock up so much money in any one player.
 
Lucky said:
You're completely discounting what Wilson provides with his mobility. He has averaged 40 yards rushing a game over his career. Without that, the Seahawks aren't the #1 rushing team in the league. With Wilson's 800+ rushing yards last season, his total offense was well over 4000 yards and his total TD contribution was 26.

What did the Seahawks do before Russell Wilson? They had a good defense and Marshawn Lynch then. Wilson on the Texans would be worth 3 games in the standings last season. He would turn an average team into a championship contender. He already has. I would absofreakinlutely pay Wilson as a top, winning NFL QB. Because that's who he is.
Click to expand...

That and he's very good at controlling the clock, taking care of the ball and doing what he's asked to do. He's not a Farve type gunslinger but he gets the job done when he needs to. It's not like he had a ton of weapons at receiver to be throwing all over the place.

I guess since he doesn't have the stats he doesn't deserve even what Dalton is getting paid :rolleyes:
 
texan279 said:
I can't see paying Wilson more than the 4 year/$80 mil mentioned in the article. Wilson is good, but not elite. He was 15th in the NFL in passing yards and 16th in passing TD's last season. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill threw more TD passes last season than Wilson did. Seattle's defense and Marshawn Lynch are the first things I think of when I think of the Seahawks.
Click to expand...

Wilson has led his team to the past two Super Bowls. He's led his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league. Who gives a crap what his stats were?? Did Tannehill or Carr lead their teams to the playoffs (let alone the Super Bowl)??

Pay the man.
 
JB said:
It's not like he had a ton of weapons at receiver
Click to expand...

Wilson had one of the weakest assemblages of receivers in the league. Now, he has Jimmy Graham. My guess is that Wilson's passing numbers will go

up-clip-art-up-clip-art-5.jpg
 
Lucky said:
You're completely discounting what Wilson provides with his mobility. He has averaged 40 yards rushing a game over his career. Without that, the Seahawks aren't the #1 rushing team in the league. With Wilson's 800+ rushing yards last season, his total offense was well over 4000 yards and his total TD contribution was 26.

What did the Seahawks do before Russell Wilson? They had a good defense and Marshawn Lynch then. Wilson on the Texans would be worth 3 games in the standings last season. He would turn an average team into a championship contender. He already has. I would absofreakinlutely pay Wilson as a top, winning NFL QB. Because that's who he is.
Click to expand...


Seahawks have been in the playoffs four times since 2010, in 2010 with Lynch and without Wilson, and in the last 3 seasons in a row, with Wilson and Lynch. In the last 3 seasons their defense has been ranked #1 each year in points allowed and yards allowed. Seattle's defense was ranked 25th-30th in each of the 3 years before Wilson arrived, so no Seattle did not have a good defense before Wilson got there and Lynch was there only 2 seasons before Wilson got to Seattle. Put Wilson on an average team with an average defense and average running game no way they make the playoffs.
 
ObsiWan said:
Wilson has led his team to the past two Super Bowls. He's led his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league. Who gives a crap what his stats were?? Did Tannehill or Carr lead their teams to the playoffs (let alone the Super Bowl)??

Pay the man.
Click to expand...

Wilson didn't carry the Seahawks himself. Having Marshawn Lynch and the #1 ranked defense in the NFL kinda helped.
 
texan279 said:
Seahawks have been in the playoffs four times since 2010, in 2010 with Lynch and without Wilson, and in the last 3 seasons in a row, with Wilson and Lynch. In the last 3 seasons their defense has been ranked #1 each year in points allowed and yards allowed. Seattle's defense was ranked 25th-30th in each of the 3 years before Wilson arrived, so no Seattle did not have a good defense before Wilson got there and Lynch was there only 2 seasons before Wilson got to Seattle. Put Wilson on an average team with an average defense and average running game no way they make the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Which is why we need to focus on building a team & teaching them how to win, & not drafting a QB, teaching him how to play, & having the team figure out how to work around him.

The Colts... they went 2-14 the year before, but they were sand-bagging. & they got the most NFL ready QB we've seen in a decade.
 
texan279 said:
Seahawks have been in the playoffs four times since 2010, in 2010 with Lynch and without Wilson, and in the last 3 seasons in a row, with Wilson and Lynch. In the last 3 seasons their defense has been ranked #1 each year in points allowed and yards allowed. Seattle's defense was ranked 25th-30th in each of the 3 years before Wilson arrived, so no Seattle did not have a good defense before Wilson got there and Lynch was there only 2 seasons before Wilson got to Seattle. Put Wilson on an average team with an average defense and average running game no way they make the playoffs.
Click to expand...

So you're really going to bring up 2010 when the Seahawks won the division with a 7-9 record...?
 
Lucky said:
Wilson had one of the weakest assemblages of receivers in the league. Now, he has Jimmy Graham. My guess is that Wilson's passing numbers will go

up-clip-art-up-clip-art-5.jpg
Click to expand...

And what do "elite" QB's do? Make bad to average receivers look good/great. See Manning, Brees, Brady, etc.
 
ObsiWan said:
So you're really going to bring up 2010 when the Seahawks won the division with a 7-9 record...?
Click to expand...

Fine, take that one out then. The last 3 seasons the Seahawks have made the playoffs, they still had Lynch and the #1 ranked defense in the NFL.
 
Lucky said:
You're completely discounting what Wilson provides with his mobility. He has averaged 40 yards rushing a game over his career. Without that, the Seahawks aren't the #1 rushing team in the league. With Wilson's 800+ rushing yards last season, his total offense was well over 4000 yards and his total TD contribution was 26.

What did the Seahawks do before Russell Wilson? They had a good defense and Marshawn Lynch then. Wilson on the Texans would be worth 3 games in the standings last season. He would turn an average team into a championship contender. He already has. I would absofreakinlutely pay Wilson as a top, winning NFL QB. Because that's who he is.
Click to expand...

What he said.

ObsiWan said:
Wilson has led his team to the past two Super Bowls. He's led his team to the playoffs every year he's been in the league. Who gives a crap what his stats were?? Did Tannehill or Carr lead their teams to the playoffs (let alone the Super Bowl)??

Pay the man.
Click to expand...

His stats are off the charts for what he is called upon to do.

To hit on DB's point, dude has averaged 5 fourth quarter comebacks/GWD's per season, 15 total in 3 seasons. Fitz for game manager contrast has 9 in 11 seasons. In their first 3 seasons Manning had 11 and Brady had 15.
 
texan279 said:
Seattle's defense was ranked 25th-30th in each of the 3 years before Wilson arrived, so no Seattle did not have a good defense before Wilson got there.
Click to expand...

The Seahawks had the #9 defense in 2011. #7 in points. It was the offense that was 28th. 23rd in points.

Since Wilson's arrival, the Seahawks have been top 10 in points every season. They've also been top 6 in time of possession, which keeps the defense off the field and fresh.

One more point: Wilson has only been in the league 3 seasons. He can (and probably will) get better. With a weapon like Graham, I think Wilson will have a stellar 2015. The facts are that Wilson has done nothing but excel since entering the league. We can speculate what he would do with another team. We know that he has made the Seahawks better.
 
texan279 said:
And what do "elite" QB's do? Make bad to average receivers look good/great. See Manning, Brees, Brady, etc.
Click to expand...

When has Peyton Manning ever had a naverage group of receivers? Brady did early in his career. Then he has had HOFers like Moss, then Gronk.
 
Lucky said:
The Seahawks had the #9 defense in 2011. #7 in points. It was the offense that was 28th. 23rd in points.

Since Wilson's arrival, the Seahawks have been top 10 in points every season. They've also been top 6 in time of possession, which keeps the defense off the field and fresh.

One more point: Wilson has only been in the league 3 seasons. He can (and probably will) get better. With a weapon like Graham, I think Wilson will have a stellar 2015. The facts are that Wilson has done nothing but excel since entering the league. We can speculate what he would do with another team. We know that he has made the Seahawks better.
Click to expand...


You're right, I misread. Every year though since Wilson has been there their defense has ranked #1 in the NFL, 3 years in a row. I'm not saying Wilson is bad, in fact earlier in the thread I said he was above average. I just do not think he is an elite QB. He doesn't compare to Manning, Brees, Brady, etc.
 
texan279 said:
You're right, I misread. Every year though since Wilson has been there their defense has ranked #1 in the NFL, 3 years in a row. I'm not saying Wilson is bad, in fact earlier in the thread I said he was above average. I just do not think he is an elite QB. He doesn't compare to Manning, Brees, Brady, etc.
Click to expand...

OK...but the original topic was money. $16 mil doesn't fly. Flacco is on a $20.1 mil contract. Kaep $19 mil. Fine he isn't in the top 4 in the league - Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees. But he's a franchise guy you can win SBs with.
 
Lucky said:
When has Peyton Manning ever had a naverage group of receivers? Brady did early in his career. Then he has had HOFers like Moss, then Gronk.
Click to expand...

Other than Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in Indy Manning didn't have much else at receiver. In 01 and 02 the Pats leading receiver was Troy Brown. In 03 Deion Branch. In 04 David Givens. In 05 Branch again. In 06 Reche Caldwell. In 07 it was Moss. Brady had Moss for 3 seasons, other than that, and having Welker and Gronk to throw to, Brady has pretty much been throwing to a carousel of different receivers.
 
infantrycak said:
OK...but the original topic was money. $16 mil doesn't fly. Flacco is on a $20.1 mil contract. Kaep $19 mil. Fine he isn't in the top 4 in the league - Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees. But he's a franchise guy you can win SBs with.
Click to expand...

Yeah and I said earlier in the thread I'd pay him $20 mil a year. Take away Lynch and that defense and see how many super bowls he "wins" for you.
 
texan279 said:
Other than Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison in Indy Manning didn't have much else at receiver.
Click to expand...

Did you really just start a conversation off with other than one sure HoFer and one likely HoFer...?

texan279 said:
Yeah and I said earlier in the thread I'd pay him $20 mil a year. Take away Lynch and that defense and see how many super bowls he "wins" for you.
Click to expand...

Do the Seahawks win the one they have with Flynn at QB? Not damn likely. So he's got 1 now. Not many get multiple in the 1st place.
 
infantrycak said:
Did you really just start a conversation off with other than one sure HoFer and one likely HoFer...?
Click to expand...


For the 13 years Manning was in Indy those are the only 2 receivers names I can think of off the top of my head that Manning had to throw to. And who knows how their careers would have turned out if someone other than Manning was throwing to them.
 
infantrycak said:
Did you really just start a conversation off with other than one sure HoFer and one likely HoFer...?



Do the Seahawks win the one they have with Flynn at QB? Not damn likely. So he's got 1 now. Not many get multiple in the 1st place.
Click to expand...

About as likely Wilson even sniffs one without Lynch and that defense.
 
infantrycak said:
Wilson on the Texans last year is good for 3 games, playoffs, who knows. If you don't see the difference between him and Fitz I don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...

I never compared Wilson to Fitz or said Fitz was better. Wilson is 10x the QB Fitz is. My point is that IMO Wilson is an above average, not elite QB who more than likely would not have a super bowl appearance without Lynch and Seattle's defense.
 
The word 'elite' needs to be Kavorkian'd when it comes to defining qb's. Winning football is about a lot more than just being a stat monkey.

Seattle only has to take a look at every sour puss franchise that churns through 'not good enough' qb's year after year after year after year after year after year before they decide to absolutely hook that young man up. Or they could always just see if Tarvaris Jackson's not too busy.
 
texan279 said:
I never compared Wilson to Fitz or said Fitz was better. Wilson is 10x the QB Fitz is. My point is that IMO Wilson is an above average, not elite QB who more than likely would not have a super bowl appearance without Lynch and Seattle's defense.
Click to expand...

Let me put it this way; you brought up 2010 when they had Lynch and they had a solid defense. The Seahawks finished 7-9 in both 2010 and 2011. Since Wilson has been their starter (in 2012) they have finished 11-5, 13-3, and 12-4. That's a four-win differential - minimum. I'll take that win differential over passing stats any day of the week.
 
ObsiWan said:
Let me put it this way; you brought up 2010 when they had Lynch and they had a solid defense. The Seahawks finished 7-9 in both 2010 and 2011. Since Wilson has been their starter (in 2012) they have finished 11-5, 13-3, and 12-4. That's a four-win differential - minimum. I'll take that win differential over passing stats any day of the week.
Click to expand...

They didn't have a solid defense in 2010. Their defense was ranked 25th in 2010. And since Wilson has been QB, Seattle's defense has been ranked #1 in the NFL each season.
 
texan279 said:
They didn't have a solid defense in 2010. Their defense was ranked 25th in 2010. And since Wilson has been QB, Seattle's defense has been ranked #1 in the NFL each season.
Click to expand...

I wonder if defensive players appreciate having a qb on their side who doesn't force them back on the field by turning the ball over and extending drives with his arm and his legs?
 
texan279 said:
They didn't have a solid defense in 2010. Their defense was ranked 25th in 2010. And since Wilson has been QB, Seattle's defense has been ranked #1 in the NFL each season.
Click to expand...

You think any of that defensive ranking improvement had to do with TOP moving from 29th to 4th?

Taking a wild stab here.
 
infantrycak said:
You think any of that defensive ranking improvement had to do with TOP moving from 29th to 4th?

Taking a wild stab here.
Click to expand...

Not really. In 2011, when Seattle's TOP was ranked 28th, their defense was ranked 7th in the NFL. In 2012, TOP was ranked 5th, defense was ranked #1. In 2013, TOP ranking dropped to #17, defense was still ranked #1. Last season TOP was ranked #7, defense was ranked #1. So even as TOP went up and down, defensive ranking stayed consistent, never dropping below #7.
 
texan279 said:
They didn't have a solid defense in 2010. Their defense was ranked 25th in 2010. And since Wilson has been QB, Seattle's defense has been ranked #1 in the NFL each season.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what the defense has to do with if Wilson is deserving of SB winning QB pay
 
The criticism on Wilson is silly. He gets knocked because he has a great defense and a great RB, but gets no credit for keeping his team in a position to succeed (with zero weapons at his disposal in the passing game). He doesn't put up 5000 yards because his team doesn't ask him to. Seattle plays a different type of game than everyone else right now. And Wilson is a perfect fit for that and does exactly what they need him to do.

I'm a little bit of a homer for Wilson so my take may be biased. I thought he should have been a 1st round pick when he came out. He falls all the way to the 3rd and Seattle still got absolutely blasted by the talking heads for taking him there.

Youngest Super Bowl Winners:
Roethlisberger:
23- 9/21, 123 yards, 2 INT

Brady:
24- 16/27, 145 yards, 1 TD

Wilson:
25- 18/25, 206 yards, 2 TD

Montana:
25- 14/22, 157 yards, 1 TD

-----
Funny how those other guys never got hit with the same "game manager" tag that Wilson did. But because he doesn't do it the prototypical way he is looked at as a lesser player.
 
infantrycak said:
Read your next two sentences.



Done.
Click to expand...

Re read it. You said defensive improvement was probably because of increase in TOP. When their TOP was ranked 28th their defense was ranked 7th. TOP went to be ranked 4th defense went to ranked 1st. Next year TOP dropped to being ranked 17th, defense was still ranked, you guessed it, #1. The next year TOP was ranked 7th, defense was still, that's right, #1. You implied the defensive improvement had at least something to do with the TOP ranking. Clearly Seattle's TOP ranking goes up and down over 4 seasons while defensive ranking never goes below being ranked 7th. Done.
 
texan279 said:
You implied the defensive improvement had at least something to do with the TOP ranking.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously arguing this?

I'm not implying anything. As a general matter an O which maintains possession helps ease the burden on the D.

Specifically Wilson gets 1st downs and prolongs drives. Wilson had 45 1st downs on the ground last season. Lynch had 65. Yeah that hack Wilson, just riding Lynch's coattails.
 
Wilson has already one Super Bowl and should have won a second one. I say pay him. The game is about winning more than anything else.
 
Double Barrel said:
yep. I think those that under-value Wilson do not watch him play very much.

If Joe Flacco can be a $100 million dollar man, I do not get how Russell Wilson is not worth the same.

He needs to hold out for his worth. I have no doubt that many teams would drop that kind of money on him in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

I figure someone would bring up another overpaid QB to use as a comp for Wilson. $20M/Yr is just too much for any current QB including Rogers, Brady, Manning, etc. But some will get it anyway.
 
I hope the Seahawks don't pay him so we can. He'd be the best QB we've ever had and with the way our team is building around him it would be just the thing.
 
infantrycak said:
Wilson on the Texans last year is good for 3 games, playoffs, who knows. If you don't see the difference between him and Fitz I don't know what to tell you.
Click to expand...

ANY QB who plays for 16 games is good for 3 more wins, even Fitz. It is the revolving door and injuries that hurt.

I think any of the three top QBs can get us to the playoffs this season and if one should have an AVERAGE season for a QB (16th), we could win it all. The fourth may after this year if he sticks on the PS. Rookie QBs just struggle.
 
Marshall said:
ANY QB who plays for 16 games is good for 3 more wins, even Fitz. It is the revolving door and injuries that hurt.

I think any of the three top QBs can get us to the playoffs this season and if one should have an AVERAGE season for a QB (16th), we could win it all. The fourth may after this year if he sticks on the PS. Rookie QBs just struggle.
Click to expand...

We're talking NFL here. Not sure what league you're watching. The Texans are nowhere near good enough to carry an average QB to a SB. We had average from our QBs last season. Fitz was 9th in rating, 20th in QBR and got benched.
 
infantrycak said:
Are you seriously arguing this?

I'm not implying anything. As a general matter an O which maintains possession helps ease the burden on the D.

Specifically Wilson gets 1st downs and prolongs drives. Wilson had 45 1st downs on the ground last season. Lynch had 65. Yeah that hack Wilson, just riding Lynch's coattails.
Click to expand...

Prime example I can think of is Pittsburgh game. If the offense could've sustained just a few drives that game would've been won.

I think Wilson is so undervalued because his game isn't inflated by passing numbers, but if you watch a Seahawks game it's the small things. It's the ability to scramble, the zone read runs keep defenses off guard, and the smart throw always when nothing is there don't show up in stats.

Had the Seattle staff made the no brainier call of running he'd be a two time champion already.
 
gary said:
Wilson has already one Super Bowl and should have won a second one. I say pay him. The game is about winning more than anything else.
Click to expand...

There were 53 active players that won the Superbowl. To give only the QB the credit and reward is specious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top