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Rumor: VY scores a 6

DFAN

DFAN

Waterboy
According to Pro Football Talk, the word at the Combine is that Vince Young scored a 6 out of 50 on the Wonderlic.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

Said the source, who knows a thing or two about evaluating college players:

"I predict he'll fall all the way out of the first round."

That's a bold statement, and we're not saying that we agree with it -- primarily because our guess is that there's someone almost dumb enough to get a six on the Wonderlic, who'll overlook Young's low score along with any other concerns that might come to light over the next two months.
 
That's hard to believe. I don't think it's true either, but that's just a gut feeling. That site doesn't look like the most reliable one in the world either...
 
Probably someone in the bottom half of the top 10 trying to create doubts about his intelligence to see if he drops a few spots.
 
Just to help some people here out. ProFootballTalk is not just a "tabloid site". Don't take that as personal, but I just wanted to let you know.

Mike Florio started the site after his initial site was bought by ESPN. It is now called ESPN Insider. So, it's certainly far from a flash in the pan site.

He has alot of legitimate contacts in the NFL. Now keep in mind, alot of those contacts are agents. So, if Jay Cutler's agent wants to stir the pot a bit he could spread a rumor through Florio and others that Young scored a 6 on the Wonderlic.

I know alot of Longhorns fans will dismiss it as BS, but from listening to Vince in interviews I wouldn't be surprised if he had a lower score. If he had a 6 then I'm sorry, but that should really hurt his status. A 6 is so pathetic I can't imagine he really scored it though. That's just really, really bad.

Guys like Donovan McNabb and Dan Marino scored in the 13-15 range so, there's some ammunition for you if he scores there and people rip on him.

If he scored a 6, I don't know what to say.
 
Matt_Alkire said:
Just to help some people here out. ProFootballTalk is not just a "tabloid site".
Click to expand...


Imagine if this site did not exist, we'd never have heard of Ron Mexico .... I have to admit that I visit it quite often myself ....
 
I got 13 out of 15 correct on the sample test, giving myself about 10 seconds for each answer, using no paper. This is child's play. I could have gotten at least 10 out of 15 using paper as a 5th grader. It's really kind of embarrasing how our HS's and Colleges are turning out people with rocks for brains. OTOH, there is "normal" smart, and football smart. I am more concerned about football smarts myself. Granted a QB is generally going to need to be intelligent, but knocking him out of the first rd? Come on now.
 
Just a little more info on the Wonderlic to put things in perspective:

Some teams consider the test results critical. Others say they dismiss the results, except for players who score at the extremes. What's an extreme? Well, former Bengals punter and Harvard grad Pat McInally scored a perfect 50 -- the only NFL player known to do so -- while at least one player, it is rumored, scored a 1. Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say."If that's the case, more than a few pros are being delivered the Books-on-Tape version of the playbook.

Each year, about 2.5 million job applicants, in every line of work, take the Wonderlic. The average NFL combiner scores about the same as the average applicant for any other job, a 21. A 20 indicates the test-taker has an IQ of 100, which is average.

link
 
Here is some more interesting info. These are some scores of past QB's, including David Carr. Young, if this is true, would be the lowest of any of these.


Tom Brady has a wonderlic score of 33, second highest to Stanford's Todd Husac of 39 in the 2000 draft. The surprising thing is that Mr. Rhodes Scholar Chad Pennington only has a 25 score. Tee Martin has an awful 11 score, which makes you wonder how any team could have chosen him ahead of Tom.

Michigan's Brian Griese and Drew Hensom have two of the higest scores, Griese at 39 and Henson at an eye-popping 42, second highest in history.

Here are some other interesting historical scores:

Dan Marino 14
Steve Young 33 (just like Tommy)
Vinny Testaverde 18
Randall Cunningham 15
Rich Gannon 27
Troy Aikman 29
Bret Favre 22
Drew Bledsoe 37 (Smarter than Tom!)
Kordell Stewart 12
Michael Bishop 10
Donovan McNabb 12
Dante Culpepper 15
Chris Redman 16 (picked ahead of Tom)
AJ Feeley 19
Michale Vick 20
David Carr 24
Ben Rothlisberger 25


These scores are certainly reflective of the players' intelligence. I always thought McNabb and Culpepper play dumb, and their scores confirm it. I also thought Michael Vick, though not smart, is still smarter than McNabb and Culpepper, which is again confirmed by the scores.

I always thought Marino used his brawn rather than his brain, not like Joe Montana and Steve Young. Again, their scores confrim it.

Randall Cunningham, Vinny Testaverde, Kordell Stewart always make stupid plays. Which again is confimed by the score.

The one surprising score is Drew Bledsoe. I also thought he was dumb, always making those stupid decisions. But, surprisingly, Drew has a very high score.

link

Also this site has the wonderlic on most of the modern day QB's, going back as far as 1982. The lowest scores I can find are a few 10's and 11's. So, if Young's 6 is confirmed, it does have to make you wonder at least a little bit.
 
If true it pretty much sinks Vince's boat. Are these numbers going to become public knowledge? I mean, do they come out with the rest of the combine measurements?

What were Cutler's and Leinart's scores, anybody know?
 
if true yes ive seen what he can do on the field but more than vince young i just want another QB hell offer me jesse palmer he would be and upgrade.:twocents: it does not have to be vince young for me just someone else.
 
I would dismiss those scores.

Forrest Gump was an absolute terror for the Crimson Tide, and I doubt IQ slowed his game.
 
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.
 
edo783 said:
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.
Click to expand...

Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."
 
edo783 said:
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.
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OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Sucks for him, but I must say he/his managment team have done very little to help him get drafted #1. It all really kinda sad.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!

Sucks for him, but I must say he/his managment team have done very little to help him get drafted #1. It all really kinda sad.
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Have you heard the guy talk?

If I was his agent, I would not be letting him talk in public until he is drafted. He would be throwing at the combine also.
 
When I heard him yelling, "Who's the Heismann now?!" I knew 2 things immediately:

1) The hype on him would be HUGE.

2) His IQ is definitely below average.

I can't say how that translates in terms of his ability to play in the NFL. Obviously, he succeeded at the college level.

That's about all I can say, except that I'm shocked that Marino scored so low. Just out of curiosity, I wonder how Carr did.

I have to mention, also, that I think it's apalling that it's necessary for employers to give people wonderlic tests to find out if they are even partially competent, when they've just spent several years in college, especially major universities. They need to start paying people to play sports and stop giving them scholarships for being physically gifted. The two things are just so different that they are almost opposites.
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Have you heard the guy talk?
Click to expand...

Yes, I have because there plenty of guys who sound really stupid when speaking, yet they all managed to score above a 6.

I don't put much credance in how people talk for being the determinig factor in their intellegence.
 
HJam72 said:
When I heard him yelling, "Who's the Heismann now?!" I knew 2 things immediately:

1) The hype on him would be HUGE.

2) His IQ is definitely below average.

I can't say how that translates in terms of his ability to play in the NFL. Obviously, he succeeded at the college level.

That's about all I can say, except that I'm shocked that Marino scored so low. Just out of curiosity, I wonder how Carr did.
Click to expand...

Carr scored a 24. Go back and read my original post. Not exactly Einsteinesque, but a little better than pet rockish as VY seems to be.
 
@Porky....

I don't know where you get that Donovan McNabb is unintelligent, but I couldn't disagree more with someone. McNabb managed to graduate from the highly regarded SI Newhouse School of Communications at Syracuse. If you're not familiar with Newhouse, it's one of, if not the most elite Communications school in the United States. I know many people in the business that had to wait a year or two to even get into Newhouse. He is the founder of a diabetes foundation that he runs helping thousands nationwide. He was the youngest member ever on the Syracuse Board of Trustees. They don't let dumbies onto any BOT regardless of there athletic ability.
 
edo783 said:
They are reporting that they have confirmed that he did in fact do a 6 for his score. THAT is beyond comprehension. Just go take the test yourself. Anyone that isn't a pet rock can get 15 or better.
Click to expand...

Wow. If true, that is really, really, really bad. That is like Lester Hayes and Dexter Manley bad. That is Manny Ramirez bad. Damn.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Yes, I have because there plenty of guys who sound really stupid when speaking, yet they all managed to score above a 6.

I don't put much credance in how people talk for being the determinig factor in their intellegence.
Click to expand...

While most of the time, neither do I, his speech and lack of vocabulary and basic comprehension of reporters questions...along with picking his agent and taking his advice, ALONG with this now confirmed test score of a 6...I will lable VY now.

My NFL Comparison:

Vince Younge intelligence = Pig used to make football.
 
Matt_Alkire said:
@Porky....

I don't know where you get that Donovan McNabb is unintelligent, but I couldn't disagree more with someone. McNabb managed to graduate from the highly regarded SI Newhouse School of Communications at Syracuse. If you're not familiar with Newhouse, it's one of, if not the most elite Communications school in the United States. I know many people in the business that had to wait a year or two to even get into Newhouse. He is the founder of a diabetes foundation that he runs helping thousands nationwide. He was the youngest member ever on the Syracuse Board of Trustees. They don't let dumbies onto any BOT regardless of there athletic ability.
Click to expand...

There are many factors that may lead to such a spot, and while I am not saying he is not intelligent, I am saying that he is dedicated.

Some of the kids with the best grades are the ones who score in the middle range on the SAT's and the ACT's and the Wonderlics, while kids with mediocre grades surprise everyone and score in the top percentile of the aformentioned tests.

Why you ask? Overachieving vs. laizness. Some people simply dedicate themselves to the books, but lack actual intelligence that they can recite without refering to a text book. Some people will only skim the chapters looking for pictures, never turn in their homework, but still do well on tests due to an actual "intelligence" level.

Intelligence is not really something that can be improved on to a certian point. You can work hard to hide your deficiencies, but you will never actually be as intelligent as the other given person.

Hope that made sense and helped.
 
Profootballtalk has updated their site, saying they confirmed VY got a 6. That's a dreadful score. I'm not too concerned about it, but then again I hold his game in much higher esteem than most.

If this is true, then the plot certainly thickens. Tough to believe a guy can get a qualifying SAT score and drop a 6 on this.
 
Dr. Toro said:
If this is true, then the plot certainly thickens. Tough to believe a guy can get a qualifying SAT score and drop a 6 on this.
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Yes, I demand an IQ test and a CAT scan of his head.

I also demand he pass a litercy test.
 
Honestly I feel really bad for Vince if this is true. I'll wait to see if some more mainstream media report on this.

I can't say I am shocked he scored low on the test, but a "6" by any player is a head scratcher.

His choice of agent and several of his post Rose Bowl decisions made it clear he was not the smartest guy.

He is still an amazing athlete, with a ton of leadership skills, the heart of a champion and a guy that play with instinct.

If I was him I would retake the test, also a score that low screams learning disability, anyways something isn't right. You can probably guess better than a "6".
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."
Click to expand...
Excuse me... Not every HS student can get into UT.....Actually, It is difficult to get into UT, especially School of Business.
I was accepted into UT but I got my engineering degree somewhere else. It is a very good school considering all the money it receives from PUF fund.
Everyone knows athlete's courseload can be (ahem) adjusted.
If his score is true; this will hurt him some...He will still get drafted in 1st round.
 
He's a professional now... so the kid gloves are off, but I hope this doesn't get blown out of proportion. He's been a very successful and efficient college quarterback. Being a QB requires plenty of homework, pattern recognition, focus, memorization, and on the fly decision making. It does not require brilliance; dedication can overcome most deficiencies. The Wonderlic isn't the be-all end-all for quarterback decision making. He could have scored that 6 and knock the socks off the Texans' brass with his ability to read a defense and man a white-board today in an interview. There's no telling, but I imagine that if this is true, it will A) badly hurt his draft status and B) stick with him until he gets to a Super Bowl.

Profootballtalk is the best NFL scoop site, but what they post doesn't always turn out to be true. I would like to see it from something other than an anonymous source.

Isn't the test multiple choice, pick all C's and you're bound to get between a 10 and 15.

*The General obviously isn't unbiased in all this... but if it's true he knows it and has an obligation to report it (unless these tests are bound by confidentiality agreements). He's in Indy, he's got contacts, he should have something about this tomorrow.
 
texman8 said:
Excuse me... Not every HS student can get into UT.....Actually, It is difficult to get into UT, especially School of Business.
I was accepted into UT but I got my engineering degree somewhere else. It is a very good school considering all the money it receives from PUF fund.
Everyone knows athlete's courseload can be (ahem) adjusted.
If his score is true; this will hurt him some...He will still get drafted in 1st round.
Click to expand...

Most of that post was meant as sarcasm. I'll post a :sarcasm: next time I assume something is blatently obvious.
 
Good article from SB 33 on the Wonderlic

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/sbxxxii/news/wond12198.stm

"Brett could score a 10 on the test but he's still a real instinctive player and has a feel for everything on the field," one executive in personnel said. "So you can't get too carried away with it."

Neil Smith, the Broncos' six- time Pro Bowl defensive end, scored only a 4 in 1987 but still was the second player selected in the draft. However, Smith is dyslexic, a major factor that scouts take into consideration.

"If you run into a low test score then what you're probably going to do is spend some time to find out more," one scout said. "Probably try to meet him and talk to him. Can he carry on a conversation? Is he obviously dumb? Maybe it's a dyslexic thing."

Or, as Wolf put it: "To me all it is is an indicator. If it's low, then you have to discover the reason why it's low. I don't pay that much attention to it."
 
YoungTexanFan said:
Well, this give every HS student in America a viable chance to get into UT.

"But I scored double digits on my wonderlic test..."
Click to expand...

You act suprised.

Any of the better football players in the state of Texas can get admitted to UT.

The graduation rate of these athletes should be embarassing to any T-sip graduate.

It's been that way since the great DKR would sign up every football player in the state of Texas to play or sit the bench at UT. I don't think there were scholorship limits at the time. That way he didn't have to play against them at other SWC schools.

Buckle up....Here they come. :redtowel:

:coffee:
 
The results of the Wonderlic are meant to be confidential, I assume that means not shared outside of the NFL. So I doubt we'll see any major outlet pick this story up.
 
Wow, thats very, very low.

I guess the 6 he got right were questions about football. Maybe thats all he knows.

No wonder Mack has such a good graduation rate at UT!

So, do these scores ever become public for certain or is it just a PFT "confirmation"?
 
The NFL does not release the scores, they are leaked.

Interestingly enough, there is this academic study about the Wonderlic.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp

In short the findings were, "This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation."

The gist is, after you control for passing ability, intelligence (as measured by the Wonderlic) doesn't matter in the NFL. Good passers are good passers regardless of the Wonderlic.

"My mama always used to say..."
 
cuppacoffee said:
I think the word you are looking for is literacy. :)
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haha, yeah...spelling was never one of my best subjects.

I do, however, have an excellent vocabullary and can communicate intelligently with superiors.

...but thanks...:rolleyes:
 
DFAN said:
Said the source, who knows a thing or two about evaluating college players:

"I predict he'll fall all the way out of the first round."
Click to expand...

maybe we can get both Young & Bush :stirpot:
 
beerlover said:
maybe we can get both Young & Bush :stirpot:
Click to expand...

I've got it!!!

We get both of them, Ahmad Brooks in the Sup. draft, and then we can reach for M. Vick in the 3rd. We still have a third round pick to improve our O-line right?
 
A score of 6 makes me wonder if he prepared at all, which is mind boggling considering the consequences of getting a really bad score on the test (aside from the debate whether there's any correlation between score and perfomance on the field).

I'm really beginning to wonder if Vince is getting the proper advice and guidance from his close personal friend/lawyer/agent. Even if you're not an Einstein, there are tutorials for this type of test where you can 'coach someone up' to at least low normal just by reviewing concepts and of the type of questions you see on the test. Get a 14 which is still well below average and you can answer critics by saying "Dan Marino got a 14, so what?" Get one of the lowest scores ever for such a high profile guy and - right or wrong - it can cost millions.

I just received an email from someone who's at the combine and apparently the score of 6 (at least the rumor if not the real score) is true. It will be interesting to see how Vince and Major handle the fallout from this one. First he misses Tag's party at the Super Bowl, then he forgets his jacket and tie, now this... Maybe it's his way of standing up against the system - but being a hero can be costly.
 
Dr. Toro said:
The NFL does not release the scores, they are leaked.

Interestingly enough, there is this academic study about the Wonderlic.

http://www.thesportjournal.org/2005Journal/Vol8-No2/mac-mirabile.asp

In short the findings were, "This article presents empirical evidence that within the modern draft era, there exists no statistically significant relationship between intelligence and quarterback performance at either the collegiate or professional level. Likewise, more intelligent quarterbacks are neither selected earlier nor compensated more for their mental abilities. Since no statistically significant relationship exists between tested intelligence and performance within the data examined in this study, NFL franchises might better utilize resources by focusing on other aspects of quarterback evaluation."

The gist is, after you control for passing ability, intelligence (as measured by the Wonderlic) doesn't matter in the NFL. Good passers are good passers regardless of the Wonderlic.

"My mama always used to say..."
Click to expand...


Don't doubt a word you wrote. Wonder why they bother to give the test if it doesn't matter in the NFL?

Maybe VY should have entered the passing drills and just skipped the wonderlic. idonno:

I imagine he will get at least $2 mil. per wonderlic point. :cool:


:coffee:
 
profootballtalk is the National Enquirer of the NFL... if everything they said was true, Carr would either be on his way out (i.e. the Texans not picked up the option) or would be in Miami for Ricky Williams and a third-rounder.

I don't doubt that it's a legitimate rumor making its way around the combine. What I doubt is that it's been confirmed. It might not be on ESPN because the results aren't ever made official, but other rumor sites would/will be all over this if that's the case. Let's wait until that happens before we make too much of a rumor from the incredibly inaccurate PFT.
 
Average scores by position:
Offensive tackles: 26
Centers: 25
Quarterbacks: 24
Guards: 23
Tight Ends: 22
Safeties: 19
Middle linebackers: 19
Cornerbacks: 18
Wide receivers: 17
Fullbacks: 17
Halfbacks: 16

The average scores in other professions look like this:
Chemist: 31
Programmer: 29
Newswriter: 26
Sales: 24
Bank teller: 22
Clerical Worker: 21
Security Guard: 17
Warehouse: 15
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I knew it, offensive lineman are the smartest position on the field. :redtowel:
 
please tell me this is a early April Fools joke and that some hyperbolic leak does not mean VY is not the Texans savior :spy:

on the other hand how else do you explain Vince could be so unaffected by events transpired on the gridiron this past season, literally unconsious :superman:
 
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