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Report: Texans G.M. prefers Khalil Mack to Jadeveon Clowney

I think it's important to note the consistent productivity of Mack though. Mercilus was a backup his first 2 years and then he wreaked havoc as a pass rusher his junior year and went pro. Mack put up great numbers all 4 years of his career. Even if you discount Mack's senior year and only count the first 3 years of each guy's college career you get....

Mercilus - 81 Tackles, 29.0 TFL, 18.0 Sacks, 11 Forced Fumbles, 0 INT, and 2 Passes Defended
Mack - 227 Tackles, 56.0 TFL, 18.0 Sacks, 11 Forced Fumbles, 1 INT, and 15 Passes Defended

I would also keep in mind that Mercilus was surrounded by much better talent. He played with future NFL draft picks Martez Wilson, Akeem Spence, Corey Liuget, Michael Buchanan, Tavon Wilson, and Terry Hawthorne. Mack didn't have that same luxury. The only defender I can recall getting drafted out of Buffalo is Josh Thomas.
Which should be countered by the presence of much better competition that Mercilus faced in the Big 10, don't you think ?
 
Just saying, at the time, Ryan Kerrigan, Purdue, had more Sacks, Tackles for Loss and Forced Fumbles than JJ Watt.

Which is another example of why you shouldn't put too much emphasis on stats. There are just to many variables that can skew stats.


Kerrigan turned out to be a Pro Bowl player, just saying, not like he's been an utter disappointment.


I never suggested anything about Karrigan. The point is that stats don't tell the whole story.
 
Hey Texian I have been watching replays of Buffalo games to get a better idea of Khalil Mack and correct me if I'm wrong here but does he not remind you of Mercilus back when he was at Illinois?. The only thing I can see where Mack is better than Mercilus is his coverage skills.

Mercilus is more a pin your ears back and go to the QB. That's pretty much it. Mack changes directions better, has better awareness and is really good in in the open field.
 
Which should be countered by the presence of much better competition that Mercilus faced in the Big 10, don't you think ?

Should or could? It could be countered. I wouldn't necessarily say that it should be. A team playing an opponent with one good defensive player can gameplan for that one guy without the risk of a teammate picking up the slack. A team playing an opponent with many good defensive players can't gameplan for all of them and faces a much higher risk of a teammate picking up the slack if they do gameplan against 1-2 guys.

Every situation is unique, but a guy having one great year against good competition strikes me as a bit fluky compared to a guy who had 4 great years against lesser competition.

In his one good year at Illinois, Mercilus had 2 teammates finish with 6+ sacks. In his four years at Buffalo, Mack had 2 teammates finish with 6+ sacks. Competition does matter, but so does supporting cast. Mack was a one-man show at Buffalo. Mercilus was just the next in line of a pretty solid group of pass rushers to go through Illinois.
 
I heard that interview, as well.

Except Wade chuckled during it, so that negates the entire thing. ;)

Although...Wade seems to chuckle every time he speaks.... :thinking:

While none of us really know the power structure on Kirby, we are good at speculating. I tend to think like you, that the coaching staff has traditionally had a lot of power in the draft. It's the Bill Parcells mentality: "If I'm going to be asked to cook the meal, I'd like to be able to pick the groceries."

And if this is the case with the Texans, then it is fairly obvious why Rick Smith is still around.

The Ed Reed thing was weird, though, because we can be fairly certain that Wade had very little to do with that signing based on his comments when they let Reed go. I'm still curious who was the driving force behind that one.
Well, if you're going to start a betting pool, I'd like to plunk down $20 on McNair being the driver on the Ed Reed pick.
...well, not pick but F/A move.
...you know whut I meant. :)
 
but, at least you can have confidence that he will get the 1st round right!:

His record is stellar in the first round (particularly if you assume he learned from the mistake made in his first draft: 2007-Okoye)

Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Kareem Jackson
JJ Watt
Mercilus
Hopkins

--Brown, Cushing, Jackson, Watt were all unpopular picks at the time. No GM in the NFL has a better record in the 1st round the past 6 years. If you disagree, let's see the list (also, of note, 3 picks were in the 20s, and Watt was the highest selection at 11)

I have to agree with this about Smith as far as the first round goes. He has been pretty money in the first.
 
but, at least you can have confidence that he will get the 1st round right!:

His record is stellar in the first round (particularly if you assume he learned from the mistake made in his first draft: 2007-Okoye)

Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Kareem Jackson
JJ Watt
Mercilus
Hopkins

--Brown, Cushing, Jackson, Watt were all unpopular picks at the time. No GM in the NFL has a better record in the 1st round the past 6 years. If you disagree, let's see the list (also, of note, 3 picks were in the 20s, and Watt was the highest selection at 11)

If you like drafts that equal this, and I will give Smith full credit for all of the 1st rd picks, even though we know Bown was a HOF Alex Gibbs pick.

Brown = Great pick
Cushing = Great pick if you like an ILB that plays 6-10 games a yr. Give me Matthews.

KJ= Avg to slightly above avg CB if used properly.
Watt= Great Pick
Mercilus = Borderline bust
Hopkins= Played last yr more like a 3rd rd pick than a 1st rd pick, but due to Schaub's injury I still have hopes for Hopkins.

Money, I think not,

Lets talk about Smith's 3rd/4th rd picks. Which is where competent GM's make their $$$$.
 
Not a Peter King fan by any means but what would be stupid about taking not only the best OT in the entire draft, but also arguably the best athlete?

quite simple, you don't need a LT when you A: have arguably the best LT in the NFL, B: have nothing at QB C: have far more pressing issues at other need spots.

RT is an issue, but not even top 3 on the list. If they traded back and took Robinson, so be it but not at the #1 spot just to stick him at RT...
 
Cushing = Great pick if you like an ILB that plays 6-10 games a yr. Give me Matthews.

This is kinda silly; Cushing's injuries have almost all been season-ending ones directed at his knees (ie, ones that would put anyone out). Matthews by comparison has been more prone to being nicked up and out for entire stretches.
 
:mariopalm:


Truth.jpg
 
This is kinda silly; Cushing's injuries have almost all been season-ending ones directed at his knees (ie, ones that would put anyone out). Matthews by comparison has been more prone to being nicked up and out for entire stretches.
On top of that, Matthews has never had over 60 tackles in a season. When Cush hasn't been low cut and has played the whole year he's always had over 100 tackles.
 
Here you go, Frank Bush discussing why HE wanted Cushing (all along) and had Cush targeted in the Fall prior to the drafted if Cush was still available. Bush says, Cush was MY GUY all along.
As a DC, Bush made a great GM.
 
On top of that, Matthews has never had over 60 tackles in a season. When Cush hasn't been low cut and has played the whole year he's always had over 100 tackles.
REP!!! Matthews dreams of playing like Cush. His long hair, pedigree and being on a consistently good team gets him a lot of attention. He's a good player, but I can think of several other LB's I'd rather have on my team. Cush being one of them.
 
quite simple, you don't need a LT when you A: have arguably the best LT in the NFL, B: have nothing at QB C: have far more pressing issues at other need spots.

RT is an issue, but not even top 3 on the list. If they traded back and took Robinson, so be it but not at the #1 spot just to stick him at RT...

A: Did you watch Brown last year?
B: Has nothing to do with it.
C: There is nothing wrong with making the OL a team strength especially when you know you are going to be bringing in a young QB at some point.
 
A: Did you watch Brown last year?
B: Has nothing to do with it.
C: There is nothing wrong with making the OL a team strength especially when you know you are going to be bringing in a young QB at some point.
Brown played injured for most of the year. Turf toe is hedoublehockeysticks on anyone. And he lost weight to become quicker, that backfired and he's gained it back.
Brown will be fine this year. I think he'll be better than ever.
:koolaid::shades:
 
Brown played injured for most of the year. Turf toe is hedoublehockeysticks on anyone. And he lost weight to become quicker, that backfired and he's gained it back.
Brown will be fine this year. I think he'll be better than ever.
:koolaid::shades:

I still think Brown is good and can bounce back from last year. He is still young and has the talent. I just don't agree that he is "arguably the best LT in the NFL" at this point.
 
A: Did you watch Brown last year? .

does it matter?

Aren't we all (whether we admit it or not) at least a little bit worried about how Arian will produce when we're not as "Zone" focused as we used to be?

Aren't we all (though a little more willing to admit) worried that Chris Myers may not be sufficient in a non-Zone system?

Are we kidding ourselves to believe the zone system did not help Duane? Or that Matt's ability to get the ball out quickly didn't help Brown?
 
does it matter?

Aren't we all (whether we admit it or not) at least a little bit worried about how Arian will produce when we're not as "Zone" focused as we used to be?

Aren't we all (though a little more willing to admit) worried that Chris Myers may not be sufficient in a non-Zone system?

Are we kidding ourselves to believe the zone system did not help Duane? Or that Matt's ability to get the ball out quickly didn't help Brown?

I think we will still run quite a bit of zone, and a bit of diversity may actually help our line and backs. I have faith that OB and his coaching staff will call a game plan to best utilize the talents that the team does have.

Don't most teams run a good bit of zone?
 
I think we will still run quite a bit of zone, and a bit of diversity may actually help our line and backs. I have faith that OB and his coaching staff will call a game plan to best utilize the talents that the team does have.

Don't most teams run a good bit of zone?

The last time the Texans ran a combination of a hybrid zone and a power run game brings back memories of Mike Sherman and Ahman Green
 
does it matter?

Aren't we all (whether we admit it or not) at least a little bit worried about how Arian will produce when we're not as "Zone" focused as we used to be?

Aren't we all (though a little more willing to admit) worried that Chris Myers may not be sufficient in a non-Zone system?

Are we kidding ourselves to believe the zone system did not help Duane? Or that Matt's ability to get the ball out quickly didn't help Brown?

Not sure where you are going with this. I have said I would try and get something for Arian right now if I were GM. I don't see him being a Texan after this year anyway. He's getting up in age and his contract is to big. Get something for him now if we can. We are at minimum two years away from being relevant. No need to hang on to him and his fat contract while rebuilding.

Wonder if NE would consider him as part of a package for Mallet?
 
I think we will still run quite a bit of zone, and a bit of diversity may actually help our line and backs. I have faith that OB and his coaching staff will call a game plan to best utilize the talents that the team does have.

Don't most teams run a good bit of zone?

Do you mean versatility?

If you do, then I agree. Having two really good tackles makes our OL more versatile.
 
Do you mean versatility?

If you do, then I agree. Having two really good tackles makes our OL more versatile.

I meant diversity thank you tho

di·ver·si·ty noun \də-ˈvər-sə-tē, dī-\
: the quality or state of having many different forms, types, ideas, etc.
 
I meant diversity thank you tho

di·ver·si·ty noun \də-ˈvər-sə-tē, dī-\
: the quality or state of having many different forms, types, ideas, etc.

Well in that case...

I think we will still run quite a bit of zone, and a bit of diversity may actually help our line and backs. I have faith that OB and his coaching staff will call a game plan to best utilize the talents that the team does have.

Don't most teams run a good bit of zone?

We don't need to draft anyone.
 
Do you like to argue just for the sake of argument?

Duane Brown was hand-picked by the ZBS guru. We're moving away from pure ZBS... as far away as we've ever been. While Duane Brown has been identified as one of the best LT's in the game, that designation has been made because of his play in the ZBS.

Even in the ZBS, we've never had the ability for our QB to sit in the pocket & pick a defense apart. There isn't a franchise QB in the league that hasn't had that luxury with more consistency than we've been able to provide in Houston. ("We" meaning the Houston Texans).

That's what I want for our QB. That, plus a running game that can pick up 3rd & short with regularity. That, plus the ability to run the ball in the red zone. That, plus the ability to score in the red zone.

Can we do that with a third round pick? Maybe.

Maybe as likely as solving our pass rush issues with a 3rd round pick. Or solving our QB issue with a 3rd round pick.
 
Duane Brown was hand-picked by the ZBS guru. We're moving away from pure ZBS... as far away as we've ever been. While Duane Brown has been identified as one of the best LT's in the game, that designation has been made because of his play in the ZBS.

Even in the ZBS, we've never had the ability for our QB to sit in the pocket & pick a defense apart. There isn't a franchise QB in the league that hasn't had that luxury with more consistency than we've been able to provide in Houston. ("We" meaning the Houston Texans).

That's what I want for our QB. That, plus a running game that can pick up 3rd & short with regularity. That, plus the ability to run the ball in the red zone. That, plus the ability to score in the red zone.

Can we do that with a third round pick? Maybe.

Maybe as likely as solving our pass rush issues with a 3rd round pick. Or solving our QB issue with a 3rd round pick.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't think it's gloom and doom just because we may not be a predominant zone team anymore. But we may be. We don't know yet what we will run or if it will be the same week to week. Or who is going to be the qb, rt or lg. Way too many questions to worry about right now
 
I understand what you are saying, I just don't think it's gloom and doom just because we may not be a predominant zone team anymore. But we may be. We don't know yet what we will run or if it will be the same week to week. Or who is going to be the qb, rt or lg. Way too many questions to worry about right now

Big apology if I were coming across as gloom & doom. Definitely not the way I ever want to come across.
 
I understand what you are saying, I just don't think it's gloom and doom just because we may not be a predominant zone team anymore. But we may be. We don't know yet what we will run or if it will be the same week to week. Or who is going to be the qb, rt or lg. Way too many questions to worry about right now
Obviously this is just a guess but I think we'll run some form of the NE spread; two TEs/two WRs/one RB or One TE/3 WRs/one RB. The opportunities to run the ball will come from mismatches because the defense has their nickel or dime package on the field and - and this is crucial - our QB sees that mismatch and adjusts the play call. If NE's offense gives us any clues, we're more likely to see passing sets on 3rd and 3 or 4 instead of I formations like under Kubiak. In this new offense, Foster may make his money by catching the ball out of the backfield and making the LB miss who's trying to cover him.
Like I said, just my guess.
 
Obviously this is just a guess but I think we'll run some form of the NE spread; two TEs/two WRs/one RB or One TE/3 WRs/one RB. The opportunities to run the ball will come from mismatches because the defense has their nickel or dime package on the field and - and this is crucial - our QB sees that mismatch and adjusts the play call. If NE's offense gives us any clues, we're more likely to see passing sets on 3rd and 3 or 4 instead of I formations like under Kubiak. In this new offense, Foster may make his money by catching the ball out of the backfield and making the LB miss who's trying to cover him.
Like I said, just my guess.

I like the way you guess.

I can't wait much longer to actually see it! :texflag:
 
Duane Brown was hand-picked by the ZBS guru. We're moving away from pure ZBS... as far away as we've ever been. While Duane Brown has been identified as one of the best LT's in the game, that designation has been made because of his play in the ZBS.

Even in the ZBS, we've never had the ability for our QB to sit in the pocket & pick a defense apart. There isn't a franchise QB in the league that hasn't had that luxury with more consistency than we've been able to provide in Houston. ("We" meaning the Houston Texans).

That's what I want for our QB. That, plus a running game that can pick up 3rd & short with regularity. That, plus the ability to run the ball in the red zone. That, plus the ability to score in the red zone.

Can we do that with a third round pick? Maybe.

Maybe as likely as solving our pass rush issues with a 3rd round pick. Or solving our QB issue with a 3rd round pick.

There is nothing about Duane Brown's talent or play at LT that limits time in the pocket more than any of the top LTs in the game. There are reasons for your perception, though:

1. ZBS- offensive line has wider splits which benefit the run game but it does add to pass blocking issues.

2. Usually, plays where a QB has 4+ seconds in the pocket occur for one of two reasons: maximum protection (6-7) on the play vs. 3-4 man rush, or QB mobility inside the pocket allows for OL recovery. The Texans almost never protected with more than 5 unless it was a play action pass. Also, Schaub did not have the feet and awareness to create the extended opportunities within the pocket.

3. Kubiak's protection scheme was very predictable, which allowed good defensive coordinators to be very efficient in how they schemed the pass rush.

4. Kubiak's offense was a rhythm/timing offense and almost all drop back passes were designed for the ball to leave the QB hand within 1 second after the QB took his drop.
 
4. Kubiak's offense was a rhythm/timing offense and almost all drop back passes were designed for the ball to leave the QB hand within 1 second after the QB took his drop.

I don't remember the Bronco's offense with Elway being a rhythm offense. maybe there was some element of it there, but I recall Elway having "all day" on several occasions.
 
I don't remember the Bronco's offense with Elway being a rhythm offense. maybe there was some element of it there, but I recall Elway having "all day" on several occasions.

Elway made it by using his legs to buy some time... Schaub was no Elway
 
Not sure where you are going with this. I have said I would try and get something for Arian right now if I were GM. I don't see him being a Texan after this year anyway. He's getting up in age and his contract is to big. Get something for him now if we can. We are at minimum two years away from being relevant. No need to hang on to him and his fat contract while rebuilding.

Wonder if NE would consider him as part of a package for Mallet?


Trading Arian Foster for Mallett would be one of the dumbest moves in the history of this franchise and that says an awful lot.
 
Trading Arian Foster for Mallett would be one of the dumbest moves in the history of this franchise and that says an awful lot.

Yeh trading a soon to be if not already worn out RB with serious off field issues and a huge contract who's coming off of back surgery for a young QB with all the tools the new head coach is looking for on a team who's rebuilding without a QB is just plain dumb!!! NOT!!!:mcnugget:
 
Yeh trading a soon to be if not already worn out RB with serious off field issues and a huge contract who's coming off of back surgery for a young QB with all the tools the new head coach is looking for on a team who's rebuilding without a QB is just plain dumb!!! NOT!!!:mcnugget:

Well, you won't be able to pay that QB, or your new draft picks if you did it, but other than that it's a brilliant idea.
 
Everyone's an expert........and no one knows squat.........so now the name of the game is to cover ALL possibilities......then you can look like your'e half way smart anyway no matter what.........:chef:

Texans could be down to four possible players
Posted by Mike Florio on April 26, 2014, 8:41 PM EDT

In twelve days, the Texans will have to do something with the first pick. To help fill those twelve days, let’s summarize their options.

First, they can use the pick and keep the player selected. If that happens, the prevailing thought (as articulated by John McClain of the Houston Chronicle) is that the Texans will take defensive end Jadeveon Clowney or quarterback Johnny Manziel.

Second, they can trade the pick before the draft, moving down to a lower position in the top 10. If Clowney ends up being the first pick, the Texans would take Manziel if he’s still on the board. If Manziel is gone, McClain believes the choice would be linebacker Khalil Mack or quarterback Blake Bortles.

Of course, if they drop farther than No. 4, there’s a chance all four would be gone. The Texans would need to hope that a tackle or two get drafted early, like Greg Robinson or Jake Matthews. A 2013-style run, with Robinson, Matthews, and Taylor Lewan all gone in the top five, would be the best outcome for the Texans.

Third, the Texans could take Clowney and then trade him to a team that takes the player the Texans directs them to take, with a trade being done promptly thereafter. The risk in that case would be the other team not getting a player the Texans want, and then the Texans would have to keep Clowney.

Most of the speculation for trade talk has centered on the Falcons, who hold the sixth overall pick and who have made no secret of their flirtation with Clowney. On Friday, they got the closest thing to a workout from Clowney, with a biomechanical assessment on a force plate.

The real question is whether the Texans would take Clowney if they can’t trade the pick. A decision to use the pick and take Manziel would then create a potential trade down by the Rams, who could be inclined to ship the pick to the Falcons for Clowney.

Fourth, the Texans could pass the pick. Obviously, that will never happen. Not long ago, however, when rookie contracts at the top of the draft were spiraling out of control, there was actually speculation that a team’s best move would be to voluntarily move down.
 
Everyone's an expert........and no one knows squat.........so now the name of the game is to cover ALL possibilities......then you can look like your'e half way smart anyway no matter what.........:chef:
See Roger, this is the kind of crap we'll have to read for the next two weeks thanks to you moving the damned draft. Put it back at the end of April where it belongs.

:bat:
 
Your link doesn't tell me anything. Please explain.
What it tells me is that, based on current contracts the Texans arte going to have a ton of cap space in 5 years. Of course, that's meaningless because there will be players added every year, contracts extended, etc.
 
Your link doesn't tell me anything. Please explain.

It says we can't afford to eat another $7M in dead money. If we're to cut or trade Arian, we're in a better position to do it next year. That's the way I read it anyway.
 
Yeh trading a soon to be if not already worn out RB with serious off field issues and a huge contract who's coming off of back surgery for a young QB with all the tools the new head coach is looking for on a team who's rebuilding without a QB is just plain dumb!!! NOT!!!:mcnugget:


Yeah, because we just know Mallett is going to pan out? If we really want him bad enough, we can get him without a trade next offseason. The Pats won't be able to retain him. Mallett had a ton of questions coming out, and people now according to reports have said his arm has gotten weaker.
 
Yeah, because we just know Mallett is going to pan out? If we really want him bad enough, we can get him without a trade next offseason. The Pats won't be able to retain him. Mallett had a ton of questions coming out, and people now according to reports have said his arm has gotten weaker.

At least Mallet would have a chance to be a part of this teams future. Foster on the other hand won't likely even be on the team in 2 years. Which is more than likely how long it will take for this team to really be in contention again.
 
Yeah, because we just know Mallett is going to pan out? If we really want him bad enough, we can get him without a trade next offseason. The Pats won't be able to retain him. Mallett had a ton of questions coming out, and people now according to reports have said his arm has gotten weaker.

Mallett's arm has gotten weaker?

Where did you get this info?
 
I don't remember the Bronco's offense with Elway being a rhythm offense. maybe there was some element of it there, but I recall Elway having "all day" on several occasions.

Elway extended with his athleticism.

The West Coast offense has many variations. The Shanny/Kubiak ZBS run-oriented model is distinct in some ways from other variations. The play-action and bootlegging is quite distinct from the drop back passing portion of the offense. The drop back passing game is designed to by extremely rhythmic and designed to get the ball efficiently out of the hand of the QB. Pull up some old video on youtube of Bill Walsh talking about his offense.
 
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