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Realistically, is AJ going to the hall of fame??

Realistically, will AJ get a yellow jacket based on his career to date

  • Yes

    Votes: 112 62.9%

  • No

    Votes: 66 37.1%
  • Total voters
    178
During recent games (for sure the last game), I've heard announcers lay the groundwork for it by saying things like "and now the future, no-doubt Hall of Famer Andre Johnson" or something like that.

I think they're laying the narrative. Andre is the best WR I've seen not named Jerry Rice. Maybe not in accomplishments or statistics, but ability. The dude is just...words can't describe how special he is as a player.
 
Whether or not Andre should go into the HOF based purely upon his resume (and I'm with most Texans' fans who think his resume more than qualifies him), he'll get in on politics as much as any reason because when he's eligible (atleast 5 years from now), the Texans will have been in league competition by then for atleast 15 years and still without a single member in the Hall.
 
IDEXAN said:
Whether or not Andre should go into the HOF based purely upon his resume (and I'm with most Texans' fans who think his resume more than qualifies him), he'll get in on politics as much as any reason because when he's eligible (atleast 5 years from now), the Texans will have been in league competition by then for atleast 15 years and still without a single member in the Hall.
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This.
 
Maddict5 said:
We all love him and for a while there it seemed like he was destined for canton but when you see guys like carter and reed cant make it, does aj have a realistic shot at getting in esp with the way the league is getting pass happy and more wrs are putting up prolific numbers

carter: 1101 rec, 13,899 yds, 130 tds
aj: 706 rec, 9656 yds, 52 tds

tbh eventhough he should have a few good seasons left, i cant see him making it (as much as I want him to). imo his lack of tds will hurt him when its all time to make his case.....
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I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.
 
Mr teX said:
I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.
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Chris Carter didn't get in right away because he's an ******* who pissed off too many people on his way up.

Part of Tim Brown's issue was the way he played three lousy seasons at the end of his career. (Same thing with Isaac Bruce & Andre Reed) Andre is on pace to crush all but Brown's TD numbers.

Isaac Bruce also has a dearth of All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections to contend with.

Andre Reed's total yds might be considered low for the seasons played when all is said & done as well.

Randy Moss makes it easy.
Marvin Harrison does as well.
Terrell Owens makes it, but maybe not on 1st go-round for attitude.

Andre's biggest fault will be lack of TDs. The best cure for that is a lot of late-career TDs so that the last years are fantastic in the voters minds. We can also hope they factor in the non-pass-happy offenses he's played in (Unlike Moss, Bruce and Harrison)
 
disaacks3 said:
Chris Carter didn't get in right away because he's an ******* who pissed off too many people on his way up.

Part of Tim Brown's issue was the way he played three lousy seasons at the end of his career. (Same thing with Isaac Bruce & Andre Reed) Andre is on pace to crush all but Brown's TD numbers.

Isaac Bruce also has a dearth of All-Pro and Pro Bowl selections to contend with.

Andre Reed's total yds might be considered low for the seasons played when all is said & done as well.

Randy Moss makes it easy.
Marvin Harrison does as well.
Terrell Owens makes it, but maybe not on 1st go-round for attitude.

Andre's biggest fault will be lack of TDs. The best cure for that is a lot of late-career TDs so that the last years are fantastic in the voters minds. We can also hope they factor in the non-pass-happy offenses he's played in (Unlike Moss, Bruce and Harrison)
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The point is, most of those guys will be & should be in before him imo. & you know how the HOF is with WR's...he'll be waiting a long time.
 
The one thing no one ever mentions about whether guys get into the HOF has to do with their personality. It is, in fact, a personality contest as well as a look at ones productivity. EVERYONE LOVES AJ! He is like Jerry Rice in that way. Even people who are not Texans fans are AJ fans. It is kind of like Peyton Manning, it is hard not to like the guy except when he is playing you. For that reason, he will get in.

You look at guys like TO that are polarizing and mouthy, and there are plenty of guys that don't like them. They have a MUCH harder time getting the votes than someone like AJ who has borderline numbers but everyone likes because, lets face it, he is an awesome person, not just an awesome player.
 
Well, a great poster from the past called this a long time ago so I'm thinking that Andre Johnson will just have to make do without a HoF jacket. Shame really. Think what AJ could have done with Carr throwing to him if only his hands weren't limiting his physical ability.

Ibar_Harry said:
I hope AJ and Carr become great as a duo, but I think AJ's hands are going to limit his great physical ability. I think you will find that Davis has very good hands along with Miller and Carr did dump a lot of passes in this senior year to people coming out of the back field.....
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Texans Talk circa 2004 :spit:
 
One of the issues today is the old-timers - the HoF players who vote - look at today's pass-happy game with a bit of disdain. The perceive QBs as having official-sanctioned "protection bubbles" around them. And they see receivers no longer scared to go across the middle and rule changes that clearly favor offensive players.

I think AJ should go in first ballot, but I'm not a voter. What the voters think is what matters, and there is no doubt that they think today's NFL is watered down and gaudy stats reflect those changes.

How often have we seen multiple 5000+ passing yards for QBs? How long did the record stand for 7 TDs in a game before TWO QBs have already tied it this season (one of them being some unknown dude at that?).

400 yards passing in a game is no longer special. Check this out:

There was a time in the NFL when a quarterback who passed for 400 yards in a game had done something really special. That time has passed.

Consider this: In 2005, there were only two 400-yard passing games all season, both by Marc Bulger of the Rams. In 2013, that total has already been surpassed, and Week One isn’t even over. Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Colin Kaepernick all topped 400 yards this week.

NFL quarterbacks have picked up this season right where they left off in the last couple of seasons. Over the last 35 weeks of the regular season, stretching back to Week One of 2011, there have been 36 quarterbacks who threw for 400 yards in a game. Basically, in the NFL these days, we average a 400-yard passer a week.

And when you see something every week, it stops being special. In the 1970s, there were five 400-yard passing games for the entire decade.

Source
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I'm not arguing against AJ in the HoF.

Rather, I am seeing a clear trend that will be taken into account by HoF voters. You simply cannot compare raw numbers of Art Monk to a modern receiver, because the game is drastically changing to favor offenses.

From the same article:

Quarterbacks are protected from hits. Wide receivers are protected from hits. Pass interference, illegal contact and defensive holding are called much more stringently.

What has also changed is that young quarterbacks come into the league ready to command an NFL offense immediately. In the old days, it took years for quarterbacks to make the transition from the college game to the NFL. Now young quarterbacks can do it immediately. In NFL history, there have only been four 400-yard passing games by rookie quarterbacks, and all four of them happened in the last two years.
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Just food for thought. Hopefully voters take into account AJ's career with an expansion team, the dignity that he has represented, and of course his consistently amazing talent that just got showcased the past couple of weeks with some spectacular TD catches.
 
Double Barrel said:
400 yards passing in a game is no longer special. Check this out:
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Been harping on that for a while re: Schaub. Wasn't especially impressed with Schaub's 4000 yard seasons and by extension, receivers collect a lot of that yardage. I personally value TDs over yardage. TDs and turnovers affect the final score way, way more than yardage. Yardage still matters, of course, but in the same way that 1000 yards is no longer impressive for a running back, the metric needs to be adjusted for inflation. The fact that AJ is one of only two or three receivers with three seasons of 1500 yards is impressive. So context matters.

I'd vote him in just because he makes plays that other WRs can't make, even those with better numbers at times.
 
eriadoc said:
Been harping on that for a while re: Schaub. Wasn't especially impressed with Schaub's 4000 yard seasons and by extension, receivers collect a lot of that yardage. I personally value TDs over yardage. TDs and turnovers affect the final score way, way more than yardage. Yardage still matters, of course, but in the same way that 1000 yards is no longer impressive for a running back, the metric needs to be adjusted for inflation. The fact that AJ is one of only two or three receivers with three seasons of 1500 yards is impressive. So context matters.

I'd vote him in just because he makes plays that other WRs can't make, even those with better numbers at times.
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I agree with you.

I think 'cak's argument is a good one, as well, because it's relative to the times (like you said, context). AJ has been an elite receiver his entire career and he has led the league in stats for individual seasons. It's not like the HoF is going to completely blacklist all WRs, so in that regard, AJ has a body of work, a reputation as non-showboating workhorse, and I also think his loyalty to the franchise should be considered in voting, as well.

I'm just hoping he retires a Texan many years from now and the next regime uses him effectively to win games (i.e. score TDs!).
 
TheMatrix31 said:
During recent games (for sure the last game), I've heard announcers lay the groundwork for it by saying things like "and now the future, no-doubt Hall of Famer Andre Johnson" or something like that.

I think they're laying the narrative. Andre is the best WR I've seen not named Jerry Rice. Maybe not in accomplishments or statistics, but ability. The dude is just...words can't describe how special he is as a player.
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not seen many Detroit lions games eh? not a slight at aj who is great but megatron is on pace to be an all-timer.. think most objective Texans fans would agree with that
 
Mr teX said:
I think he'll get in, but it's gonna take a good while for him to get in...sort of like it took for Art Monk.

But it's more than just his lack of TD's. Too many guys with the same impact & better career numbers have created a log jam at the position.

Tim Brown isn't in yet
Andre Reed still isn't in yet..
Issac Bruce isn't in yet
Randy Moss will be coming eligible soon
Terrell Owens will be coming elgible soon


& this isn't even counting guys in his generation...guys like Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Steve Smith & Larry Fitzgerald who all will be at least as deserving as well.

& If guy like Chris Carter didn't get in on the 1st ballot you know AJ's gonna have a hard time getting in.


Snacks..aka John McClain is gonna have his hands full trying to argue for AJ to get in amongst all these guys that will become elgible in the next 10 years.
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Tim Brown and Andre Reed are not in the same conversation with Andre Johnson.

Johnson has finished top two in receiving yards per game five different times in his career.
Brown did this once.
Reed only finished in the top 10 three times, never higher than number 5.

Brown and Reed are accumulators. They played a long time and accumulated a lot of stats. They were never the greatest in the game like Andre.

Yards per game and where you finished amongst your peers is the on ly fair way to look at it. It takes out the difference in offenses you may see over different eras.

Heck Randy Moss only finished top two once.

Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson are the only two guys in the last 40 years with a career as impressive as Andre's.
 
Hervoyel said:
Well, a great poster from the past called this a long time ago so I'm thinking that Andre Johnson will just have to make do without a HoF jacket. Shame really. Think what AJ could have done with Carr throwing to him if only his hands weren't limiting his physical ability.



Texans Talk circa 2004 :spit:
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NICE FIND! I completely forgot about ibar harry. I used to love reading his posts for comic relief.
 
Doubt he will be in on the first ballot but eventually he will get in. The man has a number of NFL receiving records and ironically this season has shown he probably could have had more with a better QB or different system.

Andre Johnson, along with Larry Fitzgerald with or without rings are Hall of Fame receivers, doubt either gets in before Randy Moss or Terrell Owens or even Reggie Wayne but they will eventually get in as they have been superb players and represented the league well on and off the field.
 
Spencer Tillman said that AJ is the ONLY player in NFL history to have 20 games of 10+ catches and 100+ yards.

And he is only one of two players in history to have 10 games of 10+ catches and 150+ yards. The other WR is Jerry Rice, who caught the majority of his passes from HoF QBs Joe Montana and Steve Young. AJ, meanwhile, has hit the milestones with guys like David Carr, Tony Banks, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, and Case Keenum.

AJ is building a solid case for a HoF career, and he's still going strong! :texflag:
 
Double Barrel said:
Spencer Tillman said that AJ is the ONLY player in NFL history to have 20 games of 10+ catches and 100+ yards.

And he is only one of two players in history to have 10 games of 10+ catches and 150+ yards. The other WR is Jerry Rice, who caught the majority of his passes from HoF QBs Joe Montana and Steve Young. AJ, meanwhile, has hit the milestones with guys like David Carr, Tony Banks, Sage Rosenfels, Matt Schaub, TJ Yates, and Case Keenum.AJ is building a solid case for a HoF career, and he's still going strong! :texflag:
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I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?

If AJ can play another 2-3 years at a high level, he'll have every stat needed but TD receptions. That will always be a knock against him, especially since he's spent his entire career in the pass-happy era.
 
DocBar said:
I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?
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They handicap voting on all sorts of crap. If all they went by was numbers, a fair number of inductees wouldn't be in and a fair number of players who aren't in would make it. One of the knocks against Brazile is that "enough" players from that LYB team have been inducted despite them not winning anything. Never mind all the no brainer arguments for him being inducted.

AJ's best chance at the HoF is to continue making the case that he's one of the top 3 WRs to play during his career. The more crazy stats they can pull up where he's the only one to do it (or just he and Rice) the better.
 
eriadoc said:
They handicap voting on all sorts of crap. If all they went by was numbers, a fair number of inductees wouldn't be in and a fair number of players who aren't in would make it. One of the knocks against Brazile is that "enough" players from that LYB team have been inducted despite them not winning anything. Never mind all the no brainer arguments for him being inducted.

AJ's best chance at the HoF is to continue making the case that he's one of the top 3 WRs to play during his career. The more crazy stats they can pull up where he's the only one to do it (or just he and Rice) the better.
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My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.
 
DocBar said:
I don't think they handicap HoF voting by the quality of talent around a player, do they?
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The voters are human, so I would think so. Probably not advertised or part of official voting policy, but I have little doubt that they consider intangibles like playing for an expansion team, loyalty, and/or quality of teammates could be parts of big picture analysis.

Regardless of TD numbers, AJ has clearly been a leading receiver - sometimes clearly no. 1 - at different points in his career.

And while it is a pass dominant lead, the same thing was said in the '80's when the rules for protecting QBs and making it a more pass friendly league were being implemented. I vividly remember the 49ers taking a lot of flak because they played "finesse" football and were often accused of being scared to get hit. Now we look in hindsight and see a dominant dynasty, but at the time, there was a lot of criticism from the old guard.

I used to be a bit jaded like you, but talking with 'cak, I think AJ will be cream of the crop of this generation. They certainly will not boycott all WRs.
 
DocBar said:
My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.
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It is tougher, but as DB said, the HoF won't abandon all WRs. And since AJ came in, he's the only WR to accomplish some of the things he's done, even against other WRs in the same era. AJ has been better than Fitzgerald for the duration of their careers, better than Roddy White, better than Reggie Wayne, better than anyone, really. In any given year, a WR may outperform him, but over the 11 years he's been in, he's been the best.

Calvin Johnson will probably end up being just as good, but no one else has been better than AJ even in this pass happy era.
 
DocBar said:
My heart agrees with you, but my brain says it's gotten much tougher for WR's since the NFL became a pass-dominant league.
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Double Barrel said:
And while it is a pass dominant lead, the same thing was said in the '80's when the rules for protecting QBs and making it a more pass friendly league were being implemented. I vividly remember the 49ers taking a lot of flak because they played "finesse" football and were often accused of being scared to get hit. Now we look in hindsight and see a dominant dynasty, but at the time, there was a lot of criticism from the old guard.
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Some of what we have talked about in this thread norms for the different time periods, particularly how many times did someone lead the league for a season in receptions, yards, TDs, ypg. Failing to do that points towards accumulated stats and away from being the best of their era so is relative to the time period. So for example, some of the guys commonly talked about as log jamming AJ:

Tim Brown led the league in 1 category in 1 season in a 17 year career.
Isaac Bruce 1 in 16 seasons.
Andre Reed 0 in 16 seasons.
Reggie Wayne 1 in 13 seasons.

A higher group:
Tory Holt 4 in 11 seasons.
Terrell Owens 4 in 15 seasons.
Randy Moss 5 in 16 seasons.
Marvin Harrison 6 in 13 seasons.

AJ 8 in 11 seasons.

and

The GOAT 20 in 21 seasons.
 
infantrycak said:
Some of what we have talked about in this thread norms for the different time periods, particularly how many times did someone lead the league for a season in receptions, yards, TDs, ypg. Failing to do that points towards accumulated stats and away from being the best of their era so is relative to the time period. So for example, some of the guys commonly talked about as log jamming AJ:

Tim Brown led the league in 1 category in 1 season in a 17 year career.
Isaac Bruce 1 in 16 seasons.
Andre Reed 0 in 16 seasons.
Reggie Wayne 1 in 13 seasons.

A higher group:
Tory Holt 4 in 11 seasons.
Terrell Owens 4 in 15 seasons.
Randy Moss 5 in 16 seasons.
Marvin Harrison 6 in 13 seasons.

AJ 8 in 11 seasons.

and

The GOAT 20 in 21 seasons.
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Very good points.
 
andre can look forward to being traded off the the waste land teams of the NFC

take yo pick

Redskins

Chicago

St Louis

Da BUcs
 
Norg said:
andre can look forward to being traded off the the waste land teams of the NFC

take yo pick

Redskins

Chicago

St Louis

Da BUcs
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Out of that bunch I figure he would pick Chicago. Imagine Andre Johnson, Brandon Marshall, and Alshon Jeffery!
 
AJ may sign somewhere as a FA at age 36, but he will not go anywhere until then. If he even decides to play after that. I'd be interested in the numbers if we traded him since he's restructured about 7 times, but i hope to god that never happens.

He is going to the HOF in my opinion. People universally in the broadcasts when talking about him now say "future hall of famer" which they hadn't before. There is an avid respect for him.
 
February, 2015: AJ scores 3 TDs and is MVP of the Superbowl, sealing his fate as a 1st ballot Hall of Famer. :koolaid: :koolaid: :koolaid:
 
eriadoc said:
It is tougher, but as DB said, the HoF won't abandon all WRs. And since AJ came in, he's the only WR to accomplish some of the things he's done, even against other WRs in the same era. AJ has been better than Fitzgerald for the duration of their careers, better than Roddy White, better than Reggie Wayne, better than anyone, really. In any given year, a WR may outperform him, but over the 11 years he's been in, he's been the best.

Calvin Johnson will probably end up being just as good, but no one else has been better than AJ even in this pass happy era.
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Sounds very homerish to decisively suggest that AJ has been better then all of these guys. You could make a strong argument for each one being better in some form depending on what stats you use. They are all great receivers. Some have had better advantages in certain seasons and some have had lesser advantages.

I highly doubt that you would find anyone outside of Houston that would suggest that Calvin might be as good as AJ when most people consider Calvin to be the better receiver now and for several years now. AJ is an all time great in my eyes, but so are several others you just mentioned.
 
Texecutioner said:
Sounds very homerish to decisively suggest that AJ has been better then all of these guys. You could make a strong argument for each one being better in some form depending on what stats you use. They are all great receivers. Some have had better advantages in certain seasons and some have had lesser advantages.

I highly doubt that you would find anyone outside of Houston that would suggest that Calvin might be as good as AJ when most people consider Calvin to be the better receiver now and for several years now. AJ is an all time great in my eyes, but so are several others you just mentioned.
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AJ has been better over the course of his career than those guys I mentioned. That's not taking away from those guys at all. Any of them may have a season or even two that are arguably better than AJ, but none of them are as high in yards, yards/game, and catches as AJ over the course of a career. The only point to that is it's a pass happy era, but even within that framework, AJ has more yards, yards/game, and catches than his contemporaries in the same era. And he's done it with a significant part of his career being hurt by subpar QBs. AJ did better with Carr than Fitzgerald did with Leinart, for example, and Fitz is the best comparison to AJ.

As for the homerish comment, I've argued both sides of the AJ HOF debate, so neither side ever wants to believe what I type at various times LOL. So whatever.
 
I think the perception across the league is that Andre is a future HOF'er. I think many people wonder what his TD #'s would look like with better quarterbacking in his career.
 
eriadoc said:
AJ has been better over the course of his career than those guys I mentioned. That's not taking away from those guys at all. Any of them may have a season or even two that are arguably better than AJ, but none of them are as high in yards, yards/game, and catches as AJ over the course of a career. The only point to that is it's a pass happy era, but even within that framework, AJ has more yards, yards/game, and catches than his contemporaries in the same era. And he's done it with a significant part of his career being hurt by subpar QBs. AJ did better with Carr than Fitzgerald did with Leinart, for example, and Fitz is the best comparison to AJ.

As for the homerish comment, I've argued both sides of the AJ HOF debate, so neither side ever wants to believe what I type at various times LOL. So whatever.
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It seems to me that you are only using yards as a barometer which makes AJ look better than a lot of guys in that respect. However, there are a ton of other things to measure a receiver by one of which is a stat that AJ lacks big time which is TD's. AJ has never gotten over 10 while several of these other guys we're discussing have done it routinely along with a lot of yards. Now a lot of that I'll admit was due to coaching with Capers and Kubiak's awful RZ plays that didn't feature AJ well. I think all of us have always believed that AJ's lack of TD's have not really been his fault and more on the coaching staff, but it doesn't change the fact of what his stats say in that category and his whole career of only playing in 4 playoff games between two seasons. I could pull of every stat sheet of those guys mentioned and probably break down a very sound argument for why each one of those WR's were better than the other or why they should be in the HOF, but the fact is that there will probably be several including AJ that don't get it at least for a very long time. I don't think AJ gets in for probably at least 15 years or so and it will have to be in a season where there aren't a ton of "first ballot" shoe in players. I'd say it's about a 50/50 shot that AJ ever gets in.
 
Brian T. Smith ‏@ChronBrianSmith
Irvin also said he thinks it will be difficult for Johnson to finish his career in Houston.

....no telling what Andre Johnson would have done."

Michael Irvin on Andre Johnson: "If you give him a whole career with Peyton Manning or a whole career with Troy Aikman, then there's ...

And Irvin believes Johnson should be HoF lock because he's never played with a QB who'll be remembered once their career is over.

Michael Irvin made two strong points about Andre Johnson: Best WR in Miami history -- better than Irvin, Wayne...
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Just an observation - AJ is now routinely referred to as "future hall of famer Andre Johnson." Not possible, potential, if he keeps this up - no qualifiers.
 
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