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Re: Dunta & Smithiak
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
How Gary Kubiak doesn't receive his share of culpability for these decisions is what's boggling to me.
First off i'm not a falcons fan i'm a Texans fan that was born & raised in Texas i'm in Atlanta due to my career!!! I was just pointing out the impact that he made on joining the falcons organization and you guys on this board are still crying behind Dunta wanting to get paid by the team that drafted him and now you blame him for getting paid the dollars that the top CB in the free agent market commands by the current CBA unreal!! I don't understand why this is even a subject of discussion when this guy isn't on our roster and we had the worst season that a secondary can have in the history of the league and now it's Dunta Robinson's fault wow. I think that the head coach & GM that you guys support so blindly are at fault for letting him leave and not getting the right players in secondary to help the team win.
It has been 5 years of the same stupid choices and you guys want to blame a player who laid it on the line while playing here and no one can deny that!!! Then tore up his knee worked his ass off to get back the next year and was still the best player in our secondary and we let him walk out the door hmmm I guess that was smart because you guys can't get over the guy saying pay me Rick. I would have said the thing if I had went through that and then the organization try to low ball you on the new contract and the guy leave get his due now you guys are still hating on the guy please get a life!!!
gary
Hall of Fame
texanchris
Waterboy
If Dunta was on the Texans right now he woud immediatley be our best cornerback which isnt really saying much. He might of won us a couple of games by just not making stupid mistakes like the rest of our incompentent secondary. He wanted top 5 cornerback money when hes not even one of the top 10 cornerbacks. When we look back now the decision to go young was a disastrous mistake but back then i thought it was a good move to not pay him that big of a paycheck.
Yes I do know the situation and you don't have to put up a stupid timeline to try to prove me wrong or to go along with your chronies on this topic. The way I look at this situation is i'm tired of watching the Texans loose games like we have been since the franchise began and excuse me if I disagree with you guys who like to disagree just for the sake of not liking outspoken players. The guy was our best CB and we let him walk out the door when we had no better options and all you guys can say he wasn't worth it when other teams did so your point on if he was worth it is just plain stupid IMO when the guy made an impact on a team that went 9-7 in 2009 and missed the playoffs and they vastly improved to 13-3 even though they lost to green bay in the playoffs.
Wolf
100% Texan
The Texans were very fair to D-Rob.. esp after the devastating injury he suffered and hadn't been on the field for about a year. no team was going the throw the bank at him until they see him in action.It was bad timing
he hasn't even come close to his 2004 season. He wants to be paid like an impact player, well he has to make the impact plays when they present themselves.
my thoughts. Could the Texans have used him? hell yeah, who couldn't that have used? but, the writing was on the wall that D-Rob wanted to leave and it was his right and he was gone. no one can blame him for trying to better himself
I hope I am wrong, but Nate clements II .. weak free agent class and he was the cream of the crop.
he hasn't even come close to his 2004 season. He wants to be paid like an impact player, well he has to make the impact plays when they present themselves.
my thoughts. Could the Texans have used him? hell yeah, who couldn't that have used? but, the writing was on the wall that D-Rob wanted to leave and it was his right and he was gone. no one can blame him for trying to better himself
I hope I am wrong, but Nate clements II .. weak free agent class and he was the cream of the crop.
burro
probably drunk
On the contrary, I think many throw all the blame at Kubiak (much of which is deserved) without taking too much notice of Rick Smith and his failures. Then again, seeing as how Smith is one of Kubiak's hand picked people...perhaps you're more on the right track than I am. Either way "Smithiak" is a package, they'll probably be jointly terminated should Uncle Bob decide to remove Kubiak sometime in the 2020s.
gary
Hall of Fame
Did that have anything to do with Matt Ryan and some of their other young talent coming of age?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
again, replace him with who ? who was available that would've made an impact? this is what you guys dont seem to grasp.
gary
Hall of Fame
Are you saying that there wasn't any vet out there so they would not have to have a first rookie staring at number one corner? They also needed safety help and got that a little bit after signing Jason Allen.
Other than Bodden, what CB was on the market Gary?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
& Josh Wilson was also eaten alive by the texans & was only vindicated b/c he made an easy interception on the last play of that baltimore game. and are you seriously saying that you would've been okay with Smithiak & co. handing over our 2nd rounder over to SD for Cromartie? That's worse than overpaying for Dunta imo. Furthermore, Cromartie & Dunta are pretty much the same guy. Cromartie had 1 unbelievable season that he hasn't been able to live up to. In addition to that, he's also afraid to hit guys & he's a little bit of a turd off the field.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The point is there was noone of note out there that was going to provide anything remotely close to the impact you guys are speaking of...Dunta was the top guy at his position in FA for a reason & he's not remotely as bad of a cb as you guys claim he is.
gary
Hall of Fame
Even if that was so, let's say the Texans franchised him again without signing him long term he would have just been unhappy in the lockeroom. Plus with the way the entire D sucked this year keeping him would not have made a huge differenc.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Complete speculation on your part gary. I don't recall any player in the texans locker room coming out & saying that Dunta or his contract situation was a distraction and/or he was a malcontent. No player likes to be franchised but that doesn't mean he was likely to go TO on the locker room. In fact, all i ever heard from dunta was that he wanted to be here. & Again, If Dunta wouldn't have made a difference in our secondary this year, then bringing in bailey isn't likely going to do much either.
All he did was make the game winning play. For his team. Unlike the corners the Texans currently employ.
In addition to that, he's playing in the AFC Championship game today.
Yes, I would have traded a 2011 2nd round pick for Cromartie. Then, I would not have had to reach in the 2010 1st round for Kareem "Falls Down" Jackson. A win-win scenario if I ever saw one.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1 play dude, that fell into his lap at that...That hardly makes him special. what was he doing as we were making our comeback to send it to OT? & the jets made it to the championship game without cromartie last year. He's been nothing special; not nearly worth what the jets gave up for him especially when you consider that they went cb in round 1 anyway. He might very well be on the market next year.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Denver's defensive ranking against the pass disagrees with you..
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
One player does not complete the whole defense.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Exactly, but according to some in here, he'd make that much of an impact that he'd be worth dropping 57 million on. I'm merely debunking that by showing what denver's pass defense was ranked with him right now. He's good, but he's on the very backside of his prime at age 32, he's injury prone & he's no longer that elite guy we think he is. & with all of this against him, he likely won't be worth whatever he winds up getting in FA.
This post is a perfect example of my observation that as fans, we can pick & choose which decisions we "would have" made & forget the ones that weren't very good ideas.
"We should have kept Dunta...... " the assumption is that this would have improved our defense, because Dunta was "our best corner."
As if our secondary was good in any other year Dunta was the senior Corner.
The truth is that our pass defense has never been good. With or without Dunta Robinson. We have never been dead last, I don't believe, though I am reminded of the first 4 games of the 2006 season, when we gave up 300 yards in every game..... Dunta was a part of that. I'm also reminded of Alex Smith's first TD pass in the NFL.... Dunta was on the field when that happened, & every other game in which we allow rookie QBs, or QBs that just aren't any good to look like Pro Bowlers. Dunta was around for much of that.
I also,for the life of me, can't remember Dunta Robinson being a game changer. So, even though our defense may have performed better, giving up less than 30 points a game, or actually winning more games is not really a logical result of paying Dunta millions of dollars for "avg (if you want to believe he's that good)" CB play.
But we'll never know, so "said" fans can continue on this type of tirade garnering support for an ill conceived conclusion.
Same post, here, the idea is that firing the DC, going to a new system will set us back as much as if we fired the HC, implementing new systems on both sides of the ball.
I don't know where Second Honeymoon's is on this, but McNair was recently lambasted for publicly stating changing the HC would be too traumatic for where this team is right now. The popular opinion, is that a new coach could walk into Houston & the Texans would be winners instantly.
Now..... changing the DC is setting us back.
Take the money out of it... have we never seen Dunta fall down? I have, several times.
Have we never seen Dunta wave his hands & wonder where the fuch the safety is? I have, several times.
Would this team have been better with Dunta? I don't believe so, not in the least bit.
When we signed Reeves, Reeves played better than Dunta. Bennett was better than Dunta his rookie year. Quin is better than Dunta.
For years, we looked at Dunta's tackles to point to how "good" he is. Using those same stats, KJac had a better year than Dunta, but since that doesn't fit some peoples opinion, those stats are now meainingless.
Dunta sucks. period.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Talk about ill concieved conclusions...
i'll never understand how some fans count Bob Mcnair's money like its their own. who really cares that dunta isn't worth 57 million? I wasn't gonna get any of the money that McNair saved by not giving him the contract he wanted. Furthermore, If mcnair ultimately felt that he wanted to keep Dunta at that price for avg. cb play all it would've meant was that we would've been better this year in the secondary as we weren
t even avg back there.
& If you felt that way about overpaying him, then what the texans have been doing for the most part in FA should sit well with you b/c overpaying is the name of the game. It just boggles my mind how some in here use that as the crux for a "right" decision but in the same breath advocate paying at least that or more for a player that is either comparable or on the backside of their career.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
now you're just flat out wrong...Reeves better? really? The same guy who can't get a job right now? Lol
I don't know that they "had to" reach..... Kyle Wilson & 2010 probowler Devin McCourty were there for the taking.
Well, this is the Texans organization we're talking about.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I did not want to sign Dunta to a long-term contract but I sure wanted us to franchise him once again. That would have definitely not affected us financially in the future.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I think I have been pretty consistent re: Kubiak. He should be fired.
As for setting us back, my point was that one of the arguments to not change HC was that it would be starting over and set us back especially with rumored Cowher interest and people saying he would have to nuke the defensive roster due to assumed change to 3-4 under Cowher.
I just feel that bringing in Wade, who is a good DC, presents us with new challenges without fixing the real problem, Kubiak. As a matter of fact, Wade's awwshucks blahblah demeanor only reinforces Kubiak's blahblah demeanor.
This team needs a kick in the pants and neither guy is equipped to do so.
The Texans are the literal Tin Man without a heart and the ownership is too naive to realize this. To him, this regime has us on the right track.
Yeah, right Bob. Whatever you say....
TheCD
Rookie
Maybe McNair is actually smarter than we thought? Cowher wasn't hired, which means unless Kubiak lives up to expectations (and by our standards I would say a deep playoff run, not just one-and-done) he could get axed. Wade is a good 3-4 coach so that would make a transition pretty easy with him identifying talent.
Keep the coaching stable during uncertain year. Fire them afterwards and bring in Cowher after 1 year of a transitional defense. Maybe Phillips stays on a coordinator.
Nah. McNair ain't that smart...
This is the same crap people were saying after the Kubiaks extension
There's only 3 reasons that Rick and Gary are still here
1. BoB was unwilling to admit that the contract extention was a mistake.
2. BoB didn't want to pay for said mistake.
3. BoB's delusional and actually thinks Gary is the guy to lead this team to a SB.
TheCD
Rookie
Not sure if you caught it, my post wasn't serious by any means...I was playing the sarcasm card.
TheCD
Rookie
I think a proper plan of succession would have negated this whole topic. However, I'm hoping that Kubiak and Smith just didn't see anything out there last year and didn't want to overpay for a player who wasn't worth it.
With the crop of DBs that are FAs this year, not being aggressive is going to kick their butts. As everyone else is, I'm hoping for Nnamdi or Champ, but I do like what I have seen out of Ike Taylor this postseason if the Steelers let him go.
RagingBull
Hall of Shame
Dunta got paid 57 million over 6 years (9.5 Million per year)
Revis makes 46 million over 4 years (11.5 Million per year)
If we sign Nmandi for ~60 million for 5 years (12 Million per year), don't you think that would be a much better use of 60 million bucks? Even if we only sign him for 4 years/60M (15M per year) it would be a much better use of that much money. Maybe Smithiak knew that there would be several good corners this year that are worth a lot more than Dunta and were planning on paying one of them? We will have to wait and see.
Revis makes 46 million over 4 years (11.5 Million per year)
If we sign Nmandi for ~60 million for 5 years (12 Million per year), don't you think that would be a much better use of 60 million bucks? Even if we only sign him for 4 years/60M (15M per year) it would be a much better use of that much money. Maybe Smithiak knew that there would be several good corners this year that are worth a lot more than Dunta and were planning on paying one of them? We will have to wait and see.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Call me when we have Nmandi signed. Until then, I will sit here waiting for hell to freeze over.
if Bob pays Nmandi the money, then he will have put his money where his mouth is....but we all know that aint gonna happen. Bob already knows we are on the right track and that we only needed to make a few additions to the team and we will back to being a 9-7 and all the homers around here can throw another parade and Bob can extend Gary for another decade.
bottom line is that barring a 2-14 type season, Gary will be back in 2012. after all, they already have excuses built in ready to go...per usual.
my money on the excuse du jour will be 'we made a move to a 3-4 and it takes a year or two to get that in place, and Gary is really nice and did you hear that he is from Houston and went to A&M'
whoopty freaking doo...The Texans are a joke and no amount of excuse farming can change those facts.
FACT. Gary is a losing head coach. FACT. Rick Smith has failed to find quality defensive talent to help turn things around. FACT. Bob McNair thinks the Texans are on the right track even though last time I checked 6 wins is just about what we had 5 years ago with Kubiak's first year...and with Carr at QB to boot.....but yeah, we are on the right track.
This fanbase and its commitment to mediocrity and its penchant for championing blatant losers like Carr and Kubiak when the inconvenient truth is staring him in the face is really sickening and pathetic...is it just this city that builds statues to choke artists like Bagwell and just looks for excuse after excuse on why their teams suck?....but at least we have tailgating, which is about all this franchise good for.
Why not build a statue outside of Reliant for 9-7. After all, that is the highwater mark of Texans football.
FIRE BOB, GARY, RICK, and all the other losers responsible for this
GO TEXANS IN 2020
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Jesus H. Christ..I gotta hand it to you, You really know how to take something & run with it....