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Re: Dunta & Smithiak
- Thread starter Playoffs
- Start date
aussie_texan
Veteran
Who was out there? Leigh Bodden??
Kicking the tires on a corner ain't going to help the other 3 DB spots. That's why I said in retrospect, I have no problems with Baptizing Jackson by throwing him into the fire. Look, now he's got a full season under his belt. I would rather see us address the Safety position(s).
spot on!!!!
You guys are basing this off of one game which I think is silly I live in atlanta and I watched a lot of games and before Dunta laid the big hit on that wr he was hurt for sometime throughout the season but he played through it. This guy transformed there secondary into a pretty decent unit that was quite young to be honest a new starting safety in William Moore which was an issue as well so this wasn't all on him but trust me he made a huge deference in their secondary this season.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
And I'm stationed near there and catch alot of their games. The guy wasn't a difference maker and wasn't remotely worth the money they gave him. He was J.A.G. and nothing more. As far as elevating the secondary...well that's not that hard when you have a secondary as bad as the Falcons had a year ago....still doesn't make Dunta a decent player. He sucked and isn't worth the money he's being paid. He's paid though, and has a high Madden rating, so that's all that matters.
P.S.
The link I posted was started in October...people have been saying that this guy sucks since the season started (mainly because he has and DOES suck), not just after watching him play one game.
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Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
edit
There were several people who had a clue. Those that had been pointing to the real problem in the secondary for years. I thought Wilson would play as well as he did in 2009, I was wrong. I thought Barber was coming along nicely as a replacement, I was wrong. I thought Nolan was the real thing, I was wrong.
Our corners suck, but not nearly as bad as our safeties and LBs.... The veterans of our pass defense (or lack thereof)
Who was out there? Leigh Bodden??
Kicking the tires on a corner ain't going to help the other 3 DB spots. That's why I said in retrospect, I have no problems with Baptizing Jackson by throwing him into the fire. Look, now he's got a full season under his belt. I would rather see us address the Safety position(s).
& I thought you were just a pretty face.
Best post in this whole thread.
We are on the right track! Just no one knows if we are going in the right direction on that track.
I agree with this. We never made an attempt to sign vet leadership at the position.
Well looking at stats , he did better in Houston
More tackles(64-55), couple more pass defended(9-7), one forced fumble.. But he had more ints in Atlanta ( one there to zero here)
Yeah he would have made a difference and be worth all that money
Http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=5535
ESP being he didn't want to be here anyway
Did he finally have an INT? I thought he was still 0fer. They were gonna have a Dumbta INT watch, like when the panda bears get pregnant.
Again, which corner back was available this offseason that could have provided leadership?
It wasn't Dunta... not with what he did in 2009 on the field & off.
It wasn't Cromartie... the guy's a bum. A playmaker, but a bum.
Bodden? I could buy that. Should have gone all in for Bodden.... make him an offer New England would have been stupid to match..... with our luck, he would have got hurt in the preseason (like he did for the Patriots) & not played a down (like he didn't for the Patriots).
What else were they supposed to do?
Even an average guy to play nickle and teach the young guys would have helped. Reeves would have helped. Allen came in and KJ got better each week, because he had a guy to help him learn. You don't have to get a stud to mentor young guys.
I don't know that you can credit Jason Allen with whatever improvement KJac may have made.... his being on the field less may have been the biggest help he got.
With Reeves' twitters and comments, I'm thinking he wasn't all that as a locker room guy.
Just seemed like when a guy with some experience came in, the DB's got a little better.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
I really wish Reeves would tell the truth about Rick Smith but he's still trying to get a job in the NFL so... be a while before he does.
Our biggest problem at DB, was our veteran safeties. Quin was solid all year & IMO KJac played as well at the beginning of the season as he did at the end of the season.
Our biggest problem in pass coverage, was the LBs....
And again, Jason Allen's arrival is in direct contrast to your assertation that Rick Smith refused to make any move whatsoever & supports the "there wasn't much out there" argument.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Cromartie wasn't on the market. The Jets traded a 3rd round pick which will become a 2nd round pick based on his playing time to get the last year of Cromartie's contract.
As far as I'm concerned, he's either too tight with Bob's money, or he can't sell the Houston Texans.
If it's the money thing, I have to believe Bob is in on it..... but I've seen that man throw money away (David Carr, Dunta Robinson, Al Weaver, Robaire Smith, Morlon Greenwood....... ) so I don't believe that's the issue.
Then, there are basically three types of FAs.
1) the solid, consistently good player looking for a championship..
we don't have much to offer this guy.
2) the bum who puts up one good season looking for a payday
we don't need this guy & since Rick has been here, we've managed to stay away from them.
3) the guy with something to prove
I think we've done fairly well with these guys... Myers, Walter, Smith, Pollard....
But I believe this team was at a point in the 2009-2010 offseason that if it meant overpaying for a guy like Leigh Bodden, we should have done it.
How much would that have helped though?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
http://life.atlantafalcons.com/topic/3903742-robinson-sucks-in-coverage/
The guy is J.A.G. I realize we sucked in pass coverage this year, but Dunta is not and WAS NEVER the answer for our struggles or our problems.....he sucks. Kudos to him for suckering a team/owner out of that money though. He got paid.
Lol, did you even read the thread before you posted it? From the same thread:
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1. Robinson has yet to give up a TD.
2. Chris Houston (who he replaced if you forgot) has allowed at least 3 already (that I have seen)
3. Robinson has yet to give up a TD.
4. He is part of the reason our defense is top ten.
5. Not to mention, HE HASN'T ALLOWED A TD YET!
***************************************
You guys have to stop over-analyzing everything he does. There are going to be completed passes to the guy he's covering.
This is another week where we didn't give up a TD to any of their WR's, the longest catch was 19 yards, their leading receiver had 55 yards, and their QB's were 24/38 for 236 yards, 1 TD (to their RB), and 2 INT's.
If any of our DB's were playing bad, we would be giving up TD's. Short patterns have a high completion percentage. We have not given up any deep passes.
You guys act like the man he's covering is blowing it up with TD's and yards. If you think he has "sucked", you guys must not remember what suck really is.
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Basically alot of the same mis-analysis about cb play that goes on here & every other sports MB in america. LMAO at you pulling a falcons messageboard thread to try & prove your point & it doesn't even do that effectively. Why don't i just go to clutchfans & pull a thread that talks about how talented & good the rockets are? We just KNOW there's no bias & idiotic statements being made over there LOL.
& i never insinuated that he alone was the answer to our secondary woes..we still need athletically competent safeties.
Ok.... I'm getting him mixed up with someone else then.
Was Jammer on the market? Did we talk to him?
Deltha Oneil?
Dunta still sucked.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
He's deion sanders compared to what we ended up with here...
TheCD
Rookie
No sure how old the article is, but I know for a fact Dunta gave up a TD in that playoff loss. I was very amused that he got burned as badly as our guys off of a very short TD throw.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Not really considering our guy was a rookie and Dunta is a 7 year vet. In fact our guy doubled Dunta's interceptions, defended 3 more passes, had 16 more (combined) tackles and all the while having shittier safeties behind him..
NEXT!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The thread he put in there was from wk. 5 at which point he hadn't given up a TD.
& yes he did give up a TD in the playoff game against GB to jordy nelson. I watched the game again on NFL replay last night & really it was sort of an adlib play on Nelson's part b/c Nelson attempted to run the slant (which gb likes to do in the red zone), Dunta jumped it & Nelson pushed off & reversed out to the sideline.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
:kubepalm: Dunta has more passes defensed, ints & tackles than Aso. Does that mean he's better than him? I mean really, how many times are we going to prove that these kinds of stats for a db are virtually useless?
When you have those kinds of stats, it usually means that you're really not that good.
No he's not. He would only slightly have been an upgrade here. He is at his very best an average to below average CB. That's not a 10 million a year CB. We had an awful secondary that wouldn't have been that much better with him here.
lol! Or better yet, we're on the right track, but our train is stuck at the station!
Or we're on the right track..... but the road to the Super Bowl is on the left..
So then let's watch the game, & make up our own conclussion.
We've watched him play in Houston since 2004...... & we say he sucks.
So sorry you don't agree.
But he sucks.
Ok, he doesn't suck. But he's not a #1 corner. Period....
That's what we mean to say. He wanted to be paid like a #1. Rick Smith was dumb enough to offer it to him one time. Most of us are happy that he got his head out of his butt & let the man walk.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
but..but..all we needed was veteran leadership & KJ would've been fine....we should've kept Jacque Reeves....:wadepalm: yeah, that same Jacque reeves we gave 20 million to as the cowboys laughed at us & who currently can't even make a roster right now.
& if a solid cb like dunta couldn't have made a difference in our secondary, what kind of a difference do you think Aso & Champ would make by themselves if we brought them here? History tells us...not much either, if we come back with the same cast of characters we had this year. We've seen the raiders secondary, they've look like garbage for the last few years with a shut down guy that they broke the bank on.
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buddyboy
Rookie
I think it's pretty obvious that having Dunta this year would have made a difference.
But for the money he wanted? Not even remotely worth it. Plus that guy obviously didn't want to be in Houston, he wanted a check.
I know it's difficult to have a conversation on the internet. But I'm one of the guys who doesn't believe that "veteran leadership" was our biggest deficit. I also don't believe that just any veteran can provide "veteran leadership"
I agree with this as well. Reeves couldn't beat McCain out for the nickel job in 2009... he was dead weight, didn't have **** to teach anyone & I think he was a locker room cancer.
Aso/Champ would pretty much shrink the field for us. Allowing us to run more 1 safety formations, & send that extra person to pressure the QB.
Dunta doesn't & has never done that for us. He's not a cover corner.... he's a run support corner. He's like Bernard Pollard with the body of a 15 year old girl.
burro
probably drunk
Considering that it's not my money, I would have had no problem with McNair spending 57$ million to keep Dunta around. After this season, it's hard to say that his departure wasn't a loss. Not to say that Dunta is HOF worthy or anything, but he was certainly miles ahead of anything that we had this year.
There is one more thing about Drob. He might be overrated but he has one thing our defense was lacking badly this season and thats fire. That cocky confidence that our defense had towards the end of drobs last season here. That our defense severly lacked this season. I dont remember seeing as many of our LBs pumping up the crowd and crashing helmets.
So true but still.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I give Pollard credit for that last season....he brought the swagger. He regressed this season and the entire defense went into the crapper. That and a deflated Cushing. (The other guy who brought alot of swagger last season)
gary
Hall of Fame
This not my money arguement is weak IMHO. While I'd like to see Bob pay an impact player Dunte is not that payer anymore nor did he want to play here. Why pay him? He is not light years better that's for sure if he is any better at all. But not light years man.
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I think the perception of Pollard's "regression" has more to do with how they utilized him. He wasn't expected to cover as much in 2009 as he was this past season, so they were placing more burden on his weakness instead of playing up his strengths in 2010. I see that as a FO/coaching failure more than an indictment on Pollard.
Yeah, coming off 7-9, it would have been real fun not being able to go after someone GOOD cause Dumbta was earning 57 million an INT...
burro
probably drunk
Who will we bring in with all the freed up Dunta money? The Texans FO doesn't seem very interested in being aggressive during free agency, which is why we don't often make huge signings. All I was trying to say was that, all things considered, letting Dunta walk didn't pay off as nothing positive came of it on the field. In retrospect I for one would liked to have had him back, along with Reeves. Is that sad to say? A little. I think most fans don't realize the legendary extent to which our defense sucked last year, and mostly because of the secondary. I guess I'm saying that two averaqe corners would have been a BIG improvement over what we saw last season and if Uncle Bob felt the need to spend 57$ million to do that, then so be it. Watching the defense may not have been so god awful.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
1st question: How much of an impact should a 57 million dollar make?
2nd question: Keeping the 1st question in mind, what caliber cb was available at the time that could make said 57 million impact?
3rd question: With Aso most likely being a pipe dream, how much do you think its gonna cost to lure bailey here..... keeping in mind that his best days are behind him at 32 & the fact that he's injury prone.
I mean, you guys keep saying Dunta wasn't worth it, & i agree he wasn't worth 57 million, but what & who the hell do you think you're going to get in FA pinching nickels? Again, you're likely going to severely overpay for whomever you bring in so even if that guy is a stud, you're still going to be paying him way more than he's worth.
Ok fine that is your opinion i think that you guys will find any reason to keep beating a dead horse in regards to Dunta Robinson and how much money he received and if he wasn't worth it and you guys are glad the Texans didn't re-sign him. Well here is the deal the guy did help upgrade Atlanta's secondary even though you guys hate to admit it that the Texans made a huge mistake by letting him hit the free agent market so at the end of the day the system is what it is and he was the top free agent CB last year and he got paid for being the top option at his position regardless if you felt he deserved that type of payout. The Texans secondary suffered and was the worst in the league and he would have made difference regardless what the haters say.
ok fine that is your opinion I think you guys will really regret signing that mediocre cb to such a huge contract when the CBA is done. You can say what you want but there is no way that you can find anyone (of respectability) say that DR performs like a top five corner, but he had to be paid like one so the Falcons were just stupid no matter what the blind may say.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah, stupid right on to the playoffs too..... while we sit here shopping in the bargain bin to patch up our secondary with guys like Reeves, Allen, Wilson & Pollard....The funny thing is you're saying it would've been cost prohibitive to sign him to that contract b/c of the CBA yet you're probably in the same group getting pissed b/c Mcnair won't get rid of Kubiak in part at least b/c of the uncertainty with the CBA.. :mariopalm:
gary
Hall of Fame
For me it is than just about his play and that whole pay me Rick ordeal was uncalled for. I understand Bailey is not the player he once was but he's still a more proven CB at this time IMHO. You want to know what caliber DB was going to make that said impact probably no one but Dunte had enough here and wanted out. I think it is safe to say the whole D sucked this year though. Add that with an happy sub par to par player at best was not needed IMHO.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
So Aaron Rodgers throws for a touchdown and all of a sudden the Texans are validated? You have got to be kidding me. Dunta has done a good job with the Falcons and although he may not be worth the huge contract, he helped them win and put a better product on the field for the Falcon's fans.
Meanwhile, the Texans have corners getting beat by any QB in the league this side of Rusty Smith. even Tebow got some against our pathetic excuse for a defense. A guy gets beat by one of the best QBs in the league and the guy is playing lights out and you want to paint Dunta as crap. That is just sad.
The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.
And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.
kjust pathetic and part and parcel of this pathetic excuse for an NFL franchise.
Meanwhile, the Texans have corners getting beat by any QB in the league this side of Rusty Smith. even Tebow got some against our pathetic excuse for a defense. A guy gets beat by one of the best QBs in the league and the guy is playing lights out and you want to paint Dunta as crap. That is just sad.
The Texans had a bad secondary in 2009. They let their best corner go to antoher team. How is that good football decisions? How is that even marginally competent management? That is on you, Smithiak.
And instead of doing the prudent thing, and firing Smithiak's pathetic act, they change defensive schemes and coaching setting us back just as miuch if we would have went ahead and made a change at head coach. So in essence, we have all the headaches and turnover of a change at head coach without changing the head coach. who, in FACT, is a losing head coach over a 5 year period and with an abyssmal divisional record to boot.
kjust pathetic and part and parcel of this pathetic excuse for an NFL franchise.
burro
probably drunk
...in addition to our second best CB (Reeves). :kubepalm:
Why Rick Smith is still here, I haven't the slightest idea.