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Ragone Watch (NFL Europe)

ragone is too good to play the last game of the season. they have the world bowl next sunday, so they're keeping him on the sideline.
 
yeah, i turned it on hoping to see ragone play. then i see him standing on the sidelines with the clipboard. guess he's getting ready to be back with the texans.
 
atxcoolguy said:
yeah, i turned it on hoping to see ragone play. then i see him standing on the sidelines with the clipboard. guess he's getting ready to be back with the texans.
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Ragone started the game and played most of the 1st quarter. He was only scheduled to play a couple series, but he stayed in longer.
 
yeah, thats what i heard after i tuned in in the second half. the world bowl should be a good game to watch. just to see what dave's made of.
 
nunusguy said:
While I'm glad that Ragone is having a good year in Europe and getting some
recognition which will help his career and boost his chances of playing for someone, if we trade him and don't get more than a second round pick for him, I don't think it would even be breakeven transaction for us. In other words, a 2006 2nd rounder in exchange for a 2003 3rd round would not be a good deal for the Texans when you consider the origional pick has done nothing to add value to the Texans team. Better for us to have used that pick in '03 on someone we would have hoped would play like Wand or Peek, instead of going with Cass's dubious strategy about you can never have too many QBs. Now if we woudl somehow get a first round pick, but of course that's highly unlikely.
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Why is it unlikely we would get a 1st rounder for Ragone? - Ive said all along that if Ragone were able to go to play in Europe and establish some experience he would show he could be a starter in this league and would be good trade bait if he did well.

Now that it's happened - Ragone has put on a show for the league front offices for us along with putting together an MVP and World Bowl performance. To me thats great audition time for a lot of teams who will play this year with some ??? at QB. I know some GM's and Coaches watch those games too and when a guy lights things up like Ragone has this season in Europe - Trust me they will notice too. IMO if Ragone wins the MVP and the World bowl, he will have shown he could and should be competing for a starters spot on somebodies squad and IMO could easily turn into a first rounder or good trade for the Texans in the future. I honestly would hate to see Ragone come back to the Texans and get relegated to the bench again asa back-up. He's a good guy and I think he has shown alot of people in the league and in Europe the skills he has and that he wants to compete at the top tier.

MY Prediction : Ragone wins MVP and Berlin wins World bowl. Get's the phone ringing in Charlies office about trade ideas for a great tight end or next year's draft choices. Could be a good mid-season trade for a team that looses it's starting QB or at the beginning of the Off-season to a team that is looking for a starting QB to build with who has experience for a decent price.
 
If a team were in need of a QB, what would make more sense. Draft a college QB and hope he does well at the next level, or take someone like Rags who has shown that they can do well in the next level up from college (NFLE) and has NFL training camp experience? I would think they would/should be more comfortable using a first round pick on Dave than some kid fresh out of college.
 
U4ikrob said:
MY Prediction : Ragone wins MVP and Berlin wins World bowl. Get's the phone ringing in Charlies office about trade ideas for a great tight end or next year's draft choices. Could be a good mid-season trade for a team that looses it's starting QB or at the beginning of the Off-season to a team that is looking for a starting QB to build with who has experience for a decent price.
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I can only hope that you're prediction comes true, because as well as he's
playing he stands very little chance of making a contribution to our team as
long as DC remains healthy. I'm very sketical about us getting a first round
pick for DR, but will be delighted to admit I was mistaken about that if I am.
 
My prediction: Ragone to the Ravens after Boller costs them the shot at a Superbowl they otherwise really ought to have this year.
 
-- Ragone Excelling in Europe --
Sun Jun 5, 2005 --from FFMastermind.com

The Houston Chronicle reports Texans QB Dave Ragone, 25, is the highest-rated passer in NFL Europe with a rating of 97.1, 15 points higher than the closest competitor. He also leads the league in passing yards (1,698), touchdown passes (13) and completion percentage (62.9). Ragone has thrown just two interceptions in a league-high 178 pass attempts and has a streak of 131 passes without a pick. Ragone needs to extend his streak by 25 passes to tie QB Ron Powlus' five-year-old league record. Ragone will get his chance June 11 in the World Bowl, where his Berlin Thunder will play for the league championship.
 
Mr Shush said:
My prediction: Ragone to the Ravens after Boller costs them the shot at a Superbowl they otherwise really ought to have this year.
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I can see him going somewhere like Miami or Cleveland that doesn't have a very good starter at QB, or maybe even a team like Tennessee, Arizona, Kansas City, or even Oakland that have older guys and might need a good starter in a year or two. Of course there is also a chance of him going to compete for the starting job with a team like Detroit that has a young guy that isn't living up to the hype.
 
We obviously need a good backup considering our potential weekness at left tackle DC could spend some time on the sidelines this year. Besides... We could ship Banks off and keep Ragone. Look at David Garard at Jacksonville. He is an excellent backup... I have to look at the number on his jersy to know that it's him inthe game and not leftwich. I say... keep Ragone and ditch Banks.
 
When Ragone hits FA he will be gone. He does not plan to stay a 2nd string player for the duration of his career. If the Texans don't trade him, then they will have developed a QB and got nothing in return other than a 3rd string QB for a few years. If Ragone lights up the opposition in the World Bowl and does well in preseason, then there is a chance he is traded early int he season. Personally, I would not mind trading him to GB for Bubba Franks, but they picked Alex Smith. Can anybody think of a feasible trade for a TE/LT that is worth trading away Ragone?
 
rittenhouserobz said:
When Ragone hits FA he will be gone. He does not plan to stay a 2nd string player for the duration of his career. If the Texans don't trade him, then they will have developed a QB and got nothing in return other than a 3rd string QB for a few years. If Ragone lights up the opposition in the World Bowl and does well in preseason, then there is a chance he is traded early int he season. Personally, I would not mind trading him to GB for Bubba Franks, but they picked Alex Smith. Can anybody think of a feasible trade for a TE/LT that is worth trading away Ragone?
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We should certainly keep him this year. He could be valuable for us. Also, if he does get playing time and does well then his stock goes up. He'll be a RFA after this season. Surely the way things look we can offer him at least a moderate tender, maybe even the top tender. Then we'll either keep him or receive a good pick in return.
 
I will pose a couple scenarios.

1. Ragone starts a couple games this year and plays well. The Texans offer him the top tender and trade him for a 2nd or 1st.
2. Ragone starts a couple games and plays poorly or gets hurt. The Texans offer him the mid or low tender. The Texans get less than they hoped.
(Risk and return are both greater)
3. The Texans trade Ragone for a pick or a player before the season starts.
(They reduce the risk with a tradeoff for value by either getting an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick or equivalent player to fill a spot)

I would be satisified with a 2nd if it were offered right away, but if all we could get is a 3rd before the season, then I would wait and see. Of course, CC is liable to surprise us all.
 
rittenhouserobz said:
1. Ragone starts a couple games this year and plays well. The Texans offer him the top tender and trade him for a 2nd or 1st.
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A mid tender carries 1st round compensation so if you are only hoping at most to get a 1st for him there is no point in offering more than a mid tender.
 
You don't trade him. You keep him that is what he is here for. You don't trade until you have someone who is at least as good to take his place. That is what you do with backup QB's. You might trade Banks or even cut Banks but you keep Ragone until you have someone who is better and younger. JMHO
 
HowBoutThemCowboys! said:
Just wondering, do you think David Carr should be scrared of Dave Ragone?
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Haha. Good question. But seriously, he has nothing to worry about. Carr is the face, and leader of the houston texans franchise. Seriously, he has nothing to worry about.

Joey on the other hand, might want to look over his shoulder from time to time for Garcia.
 
HowBoutThemCowboys! said:
Just wondering, do you think David Carr should be scrared of Dave Ragone?
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David doesn't really have much to be worried about when it comes to Ragone. If he becomes a starter in the NFL it will likely be with another team whether it be via trade or free agency.
 
He will, and it will be via trade. Finding a quarterback who can start other than by developing your own is extremely difficult. When you can do so, it's an older FA from whom you can hope for a couple of seasons at best. When an exception comes up, which is what Ragone will be, it will be very hard for teams with a hole at the position to resist. I do not for the life of me understand why Garrard signed an extension in Jacksonville. The choice (for us) is simple one more year of good back-up play at QB, or a first-day pick (probably at least a high second). Which would you rather have?
 
The Patriots had the same scenario with this QB out of Europe (MVP)
last year, but seem content on keeping him at NO 2--should be interesting
to see what each team does with their back up...
 
I think the difference is probably in the attitude of the players: Ragone really wants to start somewhere; Davies may be happier to sit. If Ragone wants out and someone's willing to give him a crack at starting (which I think they will) he'll be gone.
 
LINK

DUESSELDORF, Germany (AP) - Dave Ragone is exactly the kind of player NFL teams want to see proving themselves in NFL Europe.

After being taken in the third round of the 2002 draft, the Louisville quarterback spent two years struggling behind David Carr on the Houston Texans' scout teams, where his passes were often intercepted.
Ragone has changed his image since the Texans allocated him to the Berlin Thunder. He threw just two interceptions in 251 pass attempts this season and his 97.5 passer rating was best in the league.

"I don't know where he got the rap he isn't accurate. He's just a very good quarterback and I say that as someone who coached that position in the NFL," said Amsterdam Admirals coach Bart Andrus.

Andrus, who used to be the QBs coach for the Tennessee Titans, will coach his team against Ragone and the Thunder in Saturday's World Bowl.

Ragone, voted the league's best offensive player, won't be the only one on the field Saturday with a shot of making an NFL roster next season. The league's graduates include Jake Delhomme, Kurt Warner, La'Roi Glover and Dante Hall although the percentage of NFL Europe players who have made it big in the NFL is relatively low.

Texans' general manager Charley Casserly pushed Ragone to Berlin coach Rick Lantz.

"Sure some things are different, but they get to see them in 10 games, they get to see them in pressure situations," Lantz said.


:highfive:
 
this is looking pretty ugly for dave. havent really got anything going and his guys are dropping some balls.

kittner might have the lead and made some plays right now but its looking like his receivers are the ones making the plays. he looks like the passes are bad decisions but his receiver gets it
 
TexanExile said:
Go, Rags, go. Become awesome! Prove me--errrrr, I mean, the doubters--wrong about you!!!


By the way, lol@"Hamburg Sea Devils." Why not Hamburg Lars?
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Just thought I'd call myself out on my quote from back in March. Yes, I was a doubter and a Ragone-basher. He did almost everything he could over there to prove me wrong and I congratulate him. He still has a lot to prove at the NFL level, but I no longer think he was a bust as a draft pick. Nice season, Other Dave. I'm very happy to have been wrong about that!


Final note: ominous, ominous post #5 by Grid in this thread. I burst out laughing when I read that one again just now.
 
what a awesome worldbowl, nice comeback from berlin, ragone is a leader on the field. lets see in at camp how he will do with the big boys.
 
TexanExile said:
Just thought I'd call myself out on my quote from back in March. Yes, I was a doubter and a Ragone-basher. He did almost everything he could over there to prove me wrong and I congratulate him. He still has a lot to prove at the NFL level, but I no longer think he was a bust as a draft pick.
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I've never understood people who bash picks before they develop. Nobody expected Ragone to step in and set the world on fire but he was called a loser and a bust by many of you guys for years. Now you all want to ride his success (limited as it is). Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
 
Vinny said:
I've never understood people who bash picks before they develop. Nobody expected Ragone to step in and set the world on fire but he was called a loser and a bust by many of you guys for years. Now you all want to ride his success (limited as it is). Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
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I'd agree with you on that one :thumbup

my critque is not on Ragone but how he compliments Carr as his back-up. I just don't understand that a big lefty with counter clockwise spin on the ball is the right fit with a smaller, quicker righty with tight clockwise spin on the ball. as a receiver its very difficult to adjust to the spin. Ragone seems more like a pocket passer (reminds me of Rothelisberger) Carr moves outside the pocket more like Plummer.
 
I'm not calling their talent the same but that was the exact situation that Joe Montanna had with Steve Young. Their team ended up OK. I don't get the spin logic argument. I see it over and over and don't know why in the heck it matters. As long as the ball isn't coming end over end it really isn't a problem.
 
have you every played football and caught passes from both? it is a little different. not drastic, but definitely a change when you see it.
 
With Ragone's performance & desire to be a starter in the NFL, I'm going to assume that he'll be traded at some point. So, the question I have to ask is, will he get us a #1 draft pick, or a 2nd rounder/other considerations? With the quality 1st round talent this year, an extra 1st round pick could net us 2 solid starters. How'd you like to have the chance of coming out of this next draft with a future All-Pro LT & a future All-Pro NT, or possibly a Franchise RB? It's going to be interesting.
 
Vinny said:
Seems like there is a lesson here somewhere.
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The lesson is in acknowledging that someone's earned a break from the criticism, even if you've been one of the critics--kinda like last summer, when you acknowledged that you'd been too tough on a young developing QB named David Carr and wanted to give him a "fresh start."

It's not so bad to say you're going to ease up on someone--right?
 
Didn't say it was bad to 'get right', but every year we seem to knock someone who is developing for no real reason other than to complain. This last off-season it has been Wand.

I never considerd Carr a bust if thats what you are getting at. I just critiqued his play and most of you guys just got defensive when someone was objectively breaking down his weaknesses.
 
No, I was just making a comment on the specific post--no implication of previous "bust" claims intended. (In fact, I'm a little surprised that when you look at the outright assaults on Palmer and Capers we sometimes see here, that there aren't more Carr-is-a-bust threads.)

I guess I can't agree that this offseason's critiques of guys like Seth Wand were/are just for complaining's sake. I can't speak for others, but if I see a problem area and I don't see management or coaches trying to address it, I'm going to comment on it. And I think that's a fair thing to do, as long as the critique is balanced and not just a rant. I definitely disagree with anyone who says that legitimately critiquing an underperforming player or a questionable team move is "complaining" or "whining."

To use the Wand example, I think he's a weakness--BUT, the Texans have, in my opinion, tried to solve the serious LT problem this offseason, and also have avoided jumping off some bad free-agent cliff to fix the situation in a way that would've created other problems. So hey, if Wand's the best we can do, and they seriously tried to find a better answer, it's all I can ask for.

And to bring that back to Ragone, the guy wasn't ready to play in the NFL and I thought he failed to show any improvement at all in the last offseason. The Texans sent him to the developmental league to get the kind of reps he never would've gotten elsewhere. And it worked well! I think he'll contend for the #2 job now. So props to him and to the Texans for the NFLE experiment. That was another example of the team seeing a problem and doing something about it.
 
Vinny said:
Didn't say it was bad to 'get right', but every year we seem to knock someone who is developing for no real reason other than to complain. This last off-season it has been Wand.

I never considerd Carr a bust if thats what you are getting at. I just critiqued his play and most of you guys just got defensive when someone was objectively breaking down his weaknesses.
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Well, I still critique Carr and probably always will while he is an NFL QB. I think Carr has the potential to be a Hall of Fame Caliber QB, but like I said during the season, he doesn't make the best decisions all the time, but then a again who does.

I also think that Wand is going to be a pretty good LT for us. He just needs more experience.

As far as Ragone goes, I've been arguing with my dad for the past two seasons and this offseason, that Ragone is better than what he and everyone else was giving him credit for. Ragone's season over in Europe has gone a long way to vindicate my belief in Ragone to my dad and others. Now I'm not saying that Ragone is better than Carr, but I have believed that he was a good draft pick ever since we picked him and that he will make a decent starter for some team in the future.
 
Vinny said:
I don't get the spin logic argument. I see it over and over and don't know why in the heck it matters. As long as the ball isn't coming end over end it really isn't a problem.
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Ball rotation is a legitimate physical factor along with velocity & pitch that directly affects its catchability. But if you think its a non-factor then it makes a little more sense Casserly thought the same thing since he drafted him. Or could Ragone be in fact trade fodder?
 
Vinny said:
I'm old but we had footballs back when I was a kid. ;)
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Now I wouldn't quite call them footballs. They were basically stones shaped like a football. How bout those cave women cheerleaders? :drool:
 
texasguy346 said:
Now I wouldn't quite call them footballs. They were basically stones shaped like a football. How bout those cave women cheerleaders? :drool:
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Remember, he's half Japanese so they probably used coconuts. :jk: (I'll be honest, I don't even know if Japan has coconuts on it)

Anyone else see the video shot of those NFL Europe cheerleaders? It took me awhile just to find one that didn't hurt my eyes.
 
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