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Rackers staying, Brown gone

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Wtf??? Kris Brown never was a cancer in the locker room or in the community. Yes, he struggled last year, but calling him a cancer is just wrong and shows a total lack of class.

edit: If I was going to neg rep someone for their opinion, this would probably call for it.
I won't neg rep anyone. So to I'll turn a negative into a positive. Somebody rep JB because I must spread it.
 

Ole Miss Texan

Hall of Fame
Well maybe if Kubiak can make the playoffs I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Parcells has won Super Bowls.
I still liked that call to this day. Brown just did the very worst thing he could have done in that situation. Every coach will tell you that if the throw isn't there, then throw it out of the back of the endzone. If you're going to miss, miss long... NOT short.

In any case... if Brown completes that pass Kubes could have had his 1st Super Bowl. :)
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I have a pretty simple view of the kicking position. You go try and find the best one you can with the understanding that the vast majority of them are about equal. They have good years and they have bad years. That's true for all of them. You try to get one of the ones who has more good than bad but any of them can miss a kick at any time. It's an inexact science.

In short you try to find the best kicker you can and then do everything in your power to make sure the outcome is never in their hands. If your kicker is always having to make a kick (let alone a long kick) to get you into overtime or in the win column then you need to improve your offense in general and your red zone performance in particular.
 

hobie

All Pro
Parcells took 3 teams to the Superbowl, but only won 1 of them.
Only won 1 SB??? I beg to differ...

# 1- Broncos
# 2- Bills

I know he also took NE to a SB, but I do not recall any other team he took...So if I am missing one, please do tell...
 

C Madd

Waterboy
I think he is trying to say that Parcells coached 2 Giants Super Bowl teams, one which defeated the Broncos in 1986 and one which defeated the Bills in 1990.
 

hobie

All Pro
Broncos? - wtf.

He also had twenty years of coaching.
I hear you on the coaching, trust me, I am a Giants fan to the hilt... Not going to derail the thread, but I know he is the first coach to take 4 teams to the playoffs, I know he has basically turned every team he took over into legit teams.....

If Kubiak stays here for close to that long, then that means he has taken this team to a real good place !!!
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Parcells took 3 teams to the Superbowl, but only won 1 of them.
No.

He took 2 different teams to the SB (Giants and Patriots). Those two teams played in 3 different Super Bowls and one 2 of them.

He took the Jets to the Conference Championship. And took the Cowboys to the Playoffs.
 

jaayteetx

All Pro
Parcells was a really good coach.
Thats better, IMO. I think you gotta reserve great for guys who excelled above and beyond their peers and won multiple championships or who instituted new ways to play the game. Like Lombardi or Walsh.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Thats better, IMO. I think you gotta reserve great for guys who excelled above and beyond their peers and won multiple championships or who instituted new ways to play the game. Like Lombardi or Walsh.
Parcells won 2 Super Bowls. He's the only coach to win a Super Bowl with one team and then take another team to the Super Bowl. (Although Vermeil did it the other way around. He lost a Super Bowl and then took the Rams to the SB and won. And then Vermeil did wonders with the Chiefs.)

Very few coaches have been as successful coaching as many different teams as Parcells has.
 

Dwade

Waterboy
Parcells won 2 Super Bowls. He's the only coach to win a Super Bowl with one team and then take another team to the Super Bowl. (Although Vermeil did it the other way around. He lost a Super Bowl and then took the Rams to the SB and won. And then Vermeil did wonders with the Chiefs.)

Very few coaches have been as successful coaching as many different teams as Parcells has.
Yes I think he is the only one to win a Super Bowl with 2 different teams.

Parcells is easily top 10 coaches of all time, IMO
 

rmartin65

Phil Kessel: Nice Guy. Tries Hard.
One thing I just remembered, Rackers was a FA acquisition. This probably knocks our Comp. pick from a 3rd/4th to a 6th/7th (if I remember what people were saying properly). Will be well worth it if he pans out, but it is something to keep an eye on.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Yes I think he is the only one to win a Super Bowl with 2 different teams.

Parcells is easily top 10 coaches of all time, IMO
He didn't win with 2 different teams. He won with the same team 2 times. He's not the only coach to do that by a long shot.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
As said...it's great to see some accountability. Thanks Kris, for all your service. You sucked (and may have cost us playoffs) last year but at the end of the day, what can ya do. Good guy, original Texan and all that. I wonder if he'd come back if Rackers ends up sucking?
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
As said...it's great to see some accountability. Thanks Kris, for all your service. You sucked (and may have cost us playoffs) last year but at the end of the day, what can ya do. Good guy, original Texan and all that. I wonder if he'd come back if Rackers ends up sucking?
The cut isn't about revenge or even accountability. It speaks to the unavoidable reality that they couldn't recreate a preseason environment that emulated the pressure he wilted under last season. As a result, regardless of how he looked in preseason, the coaches and even the players would be playing big games late in the season doubting whether their kicker would be reliable even for an extra point. All Rackers had to do is not lose the job. And, he didn't.
 
The cut isn't about revenge or even accountability. It speaks to the unavoidable reality that they couldn't recreate a preseason environment that emulated the pressure he wilted under last season. As a result, regardless of how he looked in preseason, the coaches and even the players would be playing big games late in the season doubting whether their kicker would be reliable even for an extra point. All Rackers had to do is not lose the job. And, he didn't.
Very good points. And very true.

It's also why I felt that they should have simply cut him at the end of the season and called it a day.
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Very good points. And very true.

It's also why I felt that they should have simply cut him at the end of the season and called it a day.
No they shouldn't have cut at the end of the season. The Texans actually did the right thing by keeping Kris and bringing in Neil to compete. Kris got cut, not based on his performance in this preseason, but more of a PR move, because if he were to miss a big field goal this season.... and not having been challenged, the natives would be restless.... Personally, I think Kris was better this presason. That said, it would be a PR nightmare if he missed a big kick this season....


Love ya Kris, Amy, Marcie and the kids!! Y'all will always be in my heart.

Neil, you're the man, now..... Make us proud!!!
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
No they shouldn't have cut at the end of the season. The Texans actually did the right thing by keeping Kris and bringing in Neil to compete. Kris got cut, not based on his performance in this preseason, but more of a PR move, because if he were to miss a big field goal this season.... and not having been challenged, the natives would be restless.... Personally, I think Kris was better this presason. That said, it would be a PR nightmare if he missed a big kick this season....


Love ya Kris, Amy, Marcie and the kids!! Y'all will always be in my heart.

Neil, you're the man, now..... Make us proud!!!
Damn well said! Good luck to ya Kris wherever you may go I will root for you, unless you're the enemy! Maybe someday you will return to our family as a Texan Ambassador...
 

GP

Go Texans!
No because none of them deserve to be called cancers. Chris Brown makes a good throw and Kubiak is a genius for calling that half back pass. It's asinine the way people make that out as some sort of example of his stupidity. But people don't judge the call honestly and just criticize the result. Bill Parcells made exactly the same call in the playoffs and he's in the hall of fame.
LOL.

You're wayyyyyyy wrong on this one.

First down, near the end zone, you do NOT call a halfback pass. It was FIRST down. There are just some plays that shouldn't be an option on the table when you're first down and sniffing the end zone.

I don't agree with dwade's analogy of cancer. But on your point, being that people are not judging the call "honestly," I call B.S as well.

You don't make that call right there. This is like having 3rd and 2 and the QB goes 40-yards deep to a WR and the ball is five yards long or five yards too wide, etc., etc. I love "going for the jugular," don't get me wrong, but there's a very small window of availability for those types of out-of-the-box plays.

That was a bad call before it even made it to Schaub's ears.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
LOL.

You're wayyyyyyy wrong on this one.

First down, near the end zone, you do NOT call a halfback pass. It was FIRST down. There are just some plays that shouldn't be an option on the table when you're first down and sniffing the end zone.

I don't agree with dwade's analogy of cancer. But on your point, being that people are not judging the call "honestly," I call B.S as well.

You don't make that call right there. This is like having 3rd and 2 and the QB goes 40-yards deep to a WR and the ball is five yards long or five yards too wide, etc., etc. I love "going for the jugular," don't get me wrong, but there's a very small window of availability for those types of out-of-the-box plays.

That was a bad call before it even made it to Schaub's ears.

PUKE! after we have re-hashed this argument for another hour or so, I have another topic that could be further explored:

*David Carr: was he the problem or did the lack of protection create the problem?

after that, let's talk about:

*Amobi Okoye: we could've drafted Patrick Willis instead!

then, let's break into:

*Travis Johnson! wait, we could've drafted Derrick Johnson.. Idiots!

finally, we can conclude with some more discussion about whether Kubiak should've had Schaub run a play before the 2 minute warning occurred in Indy last season.

(yes, this will be a lot of fun!)
 

GP

Go Texans!
PUKE! after we have re-hashed this argument for another hour or so, I have another topic that could be further explored:

*David Carr: was he the problem or did the lack of protection create the problem?

after that, let's talk about:

*Amobi Okoye: we could've drafted Patrick Willis instead!

then, let's break into:

*Travis Johnson! wait, we could've drafted Derrick Johnson.. Idiots!

finally, we can conclude with some more discussion about whether Kubiak should've had Schaub run a play before the 2 minute warning occurred in Indy last season.

(yes, this will be a lot of fun!)
You don't have to go drama queen on this, Dale.

It's a freaking opinion OK? LOL. You're all kinds of wound up, dude.

Look, halfback passes are dumb in the very FIRST place. They are especially DUMB on first down near the end zone. Would everyone please gather around and let us explore how many TD passes have been thrown, in the entire NFL history, by a halfback running a HB Pass Play. Please?

They are neat in high school. Not in the NFL.

That I even have to belabor this point makes me mad at some of you. Out of the 1,000 plays we have...we call a HB Pass with a guy named Chris Brown. On first down. Near the goal line.

(sigh)

Yeah, Dale, it's all about 20/20 Hindsight stuff isn't it? There are things that are true gambles (drafting Player X instead of Player Y). HB Passes in the NFL are not, IMO, considered to be the best statistical play on first down and a few yards from pay dirt. It reeks LESS of creative playcalling and more like "Oh crap, nothing else we want to do is working...why not. Let's do it."

There are a lot of things that I can see as being tough debates on here. That this is one of them is truly epic. HB Passes are for high school. Keep 'em there where they belong.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So was he really the last orginal texan ?????


is Lber Danny clark a orginal texan ????? or he was deff there during the early years right
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Look, halfback passes are dumb in the very FIRST place. They are especially DUMB on first down near the end zone. Would everyone please gather around and let us explore how many TD passes have been thrown, in the entire NFL history, by a halfback running a HB Pass Play. Please?
Lots of guys have thrown TD's on HB passes. You usually throw it when you're in a short yardage situation where the defense will sell out against the run. I've usually seen it in a goal line situation.


Last year, the following Running Backs and Wide Receivers threw a pass:
Ricky Williams (interception)
LaDanian Tomlinson (incomplete)
Reggie Wayne (interception)
Clinton Portis (incomplete)
Brian Westbrook (incomplete)
Chris Brown (interception)
Michael Clayton (incomplete)
Mewelde Moore (6 yard TD)
Braylon Edwards (incomplete)
Mark Clayton (the other one, complete for 0 yards)
Mark Bradley (complete for 26 yards)
Santonio Holmes (interception)
Joseph Addai (22 yard TD)
Brad Smith (complete for 27 yards)
Fred Jackson (complete for 27 yards)
Michael Spurlock (incomplete)
Michael Bush (incomplete)
Legedu Naanee (complete for 21 yards)
Tim Castille (incomplete)
Chris Johnson (incomplete)
Ray Rice (incomplete)

Ronnie Brown threw 6 of them, completed 2 of them and one of those was a TD.

That's just this past season. So it's not like this is some weird and unusual thing that no team has in their playbook. Everybody has the play and most teams try it at least once during the season.

It was not a stupid call.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
So was he really the last orginal texan ?????


is Lber Danny clark a orginal texan ????? or he was deff there during the early years right
Danny Clark? No. He was only here for a year back in 2007. He started out with Jacksonville back in 2000. Played with them until he went to Oakland in 2004. He was with the Saints in 2006, us in 2007, and then spent 2 years with the Giants.
 

Brisco_County

Texans worthy
I'm sorry to see Kris go. He's an outstanding football player as well as a person.

But what is standing out to me is that cutting the last original Texan will give me closure on that era. We're a different team that isn't haunted or restricted by our past. We'll see it in the 4th quarter against the Colts this year.

Carr, Casserly, TJ... Psychologically, none of that matters anymore.
 

PockyAF

Waterboy
LOL.

You're wayyyyyyy wrong on this one.

First down, near the end zone, you do NOT call a halfback pass. It was FIRST down. There are just some plays that shouldn't be an option on the table when you're first down and sniffing the end zone.

I don't agree with dwade's analogy of cancer. But on your point, being that people are not judging the call "honestly," I call B.S as well.

You don't make that call right there. This is like having 3rd and 2 and the QB goes 40-yards deep to a WR and the ball is five yards long or five yards too wide, etc., etc. I love "going for the jugular," don't get me wrong, but there's a very small window of availability for those types of out-of-the-box plays.

That was a bad call before it even made it to Schaub's ears.
That's a horrible analogy.

So, what you're trying to say is that the WR is down field and the QB throws it to him but he fails to catch it because it is overthrown? I'm assuming in this scenario that the WR is wide open? I mean, why would the QB go to him if he wasn't, because all they needed was two yards? And beside, the QB decided to go down field, instead to the closes receiver. Wouldn't that just make it a bad play on the part of the QB, and not the play called by the coach?

Maybe I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

Anyways, I agreed with that people are unfairly criticizing that play that was horribly executed by that ultimate game-day choke artist, Chris Brown.

Just curious though, why wouldn't you call a halfback pass in the RZ on first down, in your opinion? HB pass has had success before, albeit, by more talented RB. Obviously, they must have practiced several times and had to be successful at it then, or else they wouldn't had use it at all on game day. And IIRC, there was no one over the WR. The play had a chance to succeed.
 

Maddict5

Hall of Fame
That's a horrible analogy.

So, what you're trying to say is that the WR is down field and the QB throws it to him but he fails to catch it because it is overthrown? I'm assuming in this scenario that the WR is wide open? I mean, why would the QB go to him if he wasn't, because all they needed was two yards? And beside, the QB decided to go down field, instead to the closes receiver. Wouldn't that just make it a bad play on the part of the QB, and not the play called by the coach?

Maybe I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

Anyways, I agreed with that people are unfairly criticizing that play that was horribly executed by that ultimate game-day choke artist, Chris Brown.

Just curious though, why wouldn't you call a halfback pass in the RZ on first down, in your opinion? HB pass has had success before, albeit, by more talented RB. Obviously, they must have practiced several times and had to be successful at it then, or else they wouldn't had use it at all on game day. And IIRC, there was no one over the WR. The play had a chance to succeed.
agreed the playcall was working perfectly. it just wasnt executed well and while everybody wants to blame chris brown (& god knows he was to blame for a nice bit last yr) it was actually vonta that really f'ed this play up because he followed gump doubleteaming a guy & leaving the LB'er with a clean hit on brown just as he was throwing meaning he underthrew a wide open casey with a lame duck
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Personally, I don't think the Texans had a choice. If they stuck with Brown they would've been ripped apart by the fans each FG miss there after.

Good luck, Kris. You should get a new gig pretty quick.
I agree.

Another thing, If Rackers miss, and we're calling for him to be replaced... in walks Mr Klutch, Kris Brown.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Wow, he was booed? Now that's messed up. I wasn't even disappointed with that miss. 57 yards is a long FG, and he was on target, just short. Wow, that's harsh. I had no idea the "fans" did that.
I didn't make the game either, I didn't watch it till yesterday. I can't believe he was booed either.

57 yards.

If he didn't know then, that should have been all Kubiak needed to know. The fans didn't want him to be given a chance.

After reading that interview with Fox26, I can't believe he said, "the fans have been great."
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm pretty sure that a good portion of "fans" there last night were ones who bought/given tickets to the game last night who normally do not go.. Most fans know that a 57yd'r is not a high percentage kick anyway, and I for one would not have booed regardless of a preseason/postseason kick, and I would bet most season ticket holders unless they flat out hated KB would not have either.
I might be disappointed in a missed kick, but I feel like we are part of the team, especially at the stadium. I am very disappointed every time the fans boo.

You might see a player telling another player, "c'mon man!!!" after a whiff on a play, but I don't think I've ever seen the equivalent of boos played out by the players, on the field, or the locker room.

Even when Philly got rid of T.O., McNabb didn't sell T.O. out...... he was pretty classy about his attitude towards his teammate.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Not only is there accountability, but it proves that even someone who is highly thought of by the owner is held accountable. A lot of people were worried that Brown would stay because McNair likes him so much. But, McNair clearly let Kubiak do what he needed to do.
Why is being fired the only measure of accountability recognized by fans?

When I screw up at work (and believe me, they are doozies), I get a good ole fashioned butt chewin, I might get some time off, without pay.

It's not that I'm lobbying for KB, I'm just curious, there are so many other things they can do, to hold a person accountable.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Well, at least you did a credible cut & paste job to get your spam on here.

We still do not want! :pissed:
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If Brown stayed and missed ANY field goal, the fans would boo than that would be detrimental to his psyche everytime he's out there plus it would really deflate the entire team.

... I understand the frustration but it really does hit ALL the players hard...
I never really thought about it, but I wonder how the players felt, after working their butts off, when Kris Brown strutted out on the field to kick a game tying, or game winning field goal.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
If you winning or losing a football game ULTIMATELY depends on your kicker, then you need to check out your game film and figure out what you did earlier in the game that DIDN'T allow you to have a decent lead going into the 2 minute warning.
I would agree if you would add the word "frequently" in there somewhere, which was not the case. 2 out of 16 games, I wouldn't call frequent.

One of those games, he missed two kicks.

Of all the other players on this team, that guy is paid to be clutch, we hope to have the game in hand, and not "rely" on a field goal to win/tie a game. But when we do need him, we need him.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No because none of them deserve to be called cancers. Chris Brown makes a good throw and Kubiak is a genius for calling that half back pass. It's asinine the way people make that out as some sort of example of his stupidity. But people don't judge the call honestly and just criticize the result. Bill Parcells made exactly the same call in the playoffs and he's in the hall of fame.
Nobody would remember that play, if Chris Brown would have taken a tackle for a loss, giving us 2nd & Goal from the eight yard line.

Nobody called Caldwell an ***** when he had Reggie Wayne toss up a hope and a prayer that Pollard came down with.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well maybe if Kubiak can make the playoffs I will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Parcells has won Super Bowls.
What's the difference? If it's a decision that would be made by a Super Bowl winning coach, why is it ridiculous that anyone who never coached a Super Bowl would make the same decision?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
LOL.

You're wayyyyyyy wrong on this one.

First down, near the end zone, you do NOT call a halfback pass. It was FIRST down. There are just some plays that shouldn't be an option on the table when you're first down and sniffing the end zone.

That was a bad call before it even made it to Schaub's ears.
First of all, 1st down is when you want to try your riskiest plays, because you've technically got three more downs, just in case it doesn't work out.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I dont get all of the K.Brown love. He stunk at his job and was rightfully cut. Sure he is a great guy. But the NFL is a performance based business. Do your job or get cut. This isn't pee wee football. It's good to see Kubes isn't playing to the crowd anymore and has decided to keep the best player. This is a good sign that Kubes is growing as a coach.

The HB pass was stupid because Kubes let that loser C.Brown throw the pass (plain stupidity).

The minuate Dale said he would rather finish 2nd with Kubes than finish 1st with other coaches he lost all creditable objectivity with me. I want to finish 1st and dont really care who thcoaches/players are. The NFL is all about winning. It seems that McNair/Smithiak are finally starting to realize this and are making roster decisions accordingly.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Look, halfback passes are dumb in the very FIRST place. They are especially DUMB on first down near the end zone. Would everyone please gather around and let us explore how many TD passes have been thrown, in the entire NFL history, by a halfback running a HB Pass Play. Please?
Yeah they're stupid, especially near the end zone.

Signed,

LaDanian Tomlinson

12 attempts, 8 receptions, 7 TD's, 0 INT's,

PS - there wouldn't have been a peep from anyone if he threw a TD or as TK pointed out was simply tackled.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I dont get all of the K.Brown love. He stunk at his job and was rightfully cut. Sure he is a great guy. But the NFL is a performance based business. Do your job or get cut. This isn't pee wee football. It's good to see Kubes isn't playing to the crowd anymore and has decided to keep the best player. This is a good sign that Kubes is growing as a coach.
I was shocked Kubes grew the stones to fire Kris. The way he dismissed
Brown was handled with pure class, although there was no way to
keep him unless Rackers completely screwed up. That didn't happen, and
Neil repeatedly kept jumping into piles as a KICKER.

Let's see if this team can play against Indy without going "space cadet."
 


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