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Quarterback Quandary?

What do the Texans need to do?:-

  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .
Number19 said:
Anytime you talk about a positional pick this is to be assumed. I would hope that those who frequent a forum such as this have enough football smarts not to think otherwise.
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I don't know... we talked about the weakness of OL in the 2016 draft, but all you hear now, is that we should have drafted one of them. Don't trade up... but draft the best OL in the entire draft at 21.

Guess how many offensive tackles were taken between Will Fuller (21) & Nick Martin (50)..


One. Jason Spriggs (17) by the Green Bay Packers two spots ahead of ours.
 
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thunderkyss said:
I don't know... we talked about the weakness of OL in the 2016 draft, but all you hear now, is that we should have drafted one of them. Don't trade up... but draft the best OL in the entire draft at 21.

Guess how many offensive tackles were taken between Will Fuller (21) & Nick Martin (50)..


One. Jason Spriggs (17) by the Green Bay Packers two spots ahead of ours.
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In the end, the Patriots and others drafting strategy is key here…best player available at position of need. And if you cant' fill it via the draft, then you have a plan via FA. The Patriots often double dip at positions of need. They'll grab a kid in the draft and bring in 2 FAs. Or, draft 3 kids and 1 FA. One piece of spaghetti will stick at the end of camp.
 
thunderkyss said:
#BelieveInBrock


Osweiler looked pretty accurate Saturday. Showed quite a bit of arm talent actually. IMO he looked better than at anytime last year, when he looked better overall.

Maybe he & O'b are on the same page & we'll finally see why O'b & Rick gave him $37M guaranteed.
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Really? His 56% completion rate Saturday wasn't even as good as his 59% for the season. What are some of you people watching? Or drinking/smoking?
 
Speedy said:
Really? His 56% completion rate Saturday wasn't even as good as his 59% for the season. What are some of you people watching? Or drinking/smoking?
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He was 2-7 in the second half when they turtled. He was 12/18 for 67% and 146 yards in the first half. So yes, he was much more accurate and productive when the game plan wasn't sticking their heads up their ass.
 
I'm perfectly fine going into the 2017 season with the 3 QB's we now have on the roster, especially if there is an honest and open (looking at you closed practice sessions) competition based on performance and not on salary.

If Os loses out to both Savage and Weeden, I'd designate him a June 1st cut and let him take his "talents" elsewhere instead of being an albatross and distraction to the team.
 
I agree; but, and someone might verify this, I believe Weeden is currently under a 1 year contract and would need to resign. If I were Weeden, I wouldn't. I'd want to go to a team where I might start or at least be #2.

If this is the case, we might have to draft a low round QB to be #3, or sign another FA.
 
sandman said:
He was 2-7 in the second half when they turtled. He was 12/18 for 67% and 146 yards in the first half. So yes, he was much more accurate and productive when the game plan wasn't sticking their heads up their ass.
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Brock had a passer rating of 90.1 and a QBR of 85.4 in the WC game. The QBR (which is supposed to rate overall play - not just passing) was his highest rating of the season, and better than any other QB playing in the WC round except for Roethlisberger (And yes, that means it was higher than Aaron Rodgers). The passer rating was his third highest of the season behind the Packers game (97.6), and the second Indy game (90.7).

FWIW, his QBR was also higher than any game he played in last season. He did have a couple of games in 2015 with passer ratings over 100.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Brock had a passer rating of 90.1 and a QBR of 85.4 in the WC game. The QBR (which is supposed to rate overall play - not just passing) was his highest rating of the season, and better than any other QB playing in the WC round except for Roethlisberger (And yes, that means it was higher than Aaron Rodgers). The passer rating was his third highest of the season behind the Packers game (97.6), and the second Indy game (90.7).

FWIW, his QBR was also higher than any game he played in last season. He did have a couple of games in 2015 with passer ratings over 100.
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Sorry , but rating means very little in a non-competitve game.

It's like trying to evaluate a QB in practice.

No.
You do that when the lights are on, fully bright.
 
76Texan said:
Sorry , but rating means very little in a non-competitve game.

It's like trying to evaluate a QB in practice.

No.
You do that when the lights are on, fully bright.
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Meh...

Okay, then we'll just leave it at the fact that this past Saturday, Brock played QB for the Texans in a game that they won in a non-competitive fashion.
 
76Texan said:
Yes, that and he played well enough.
No need for stats.
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Why not? We are quick to throw out his stats and where he ranks against everyone else when he is playing bad.

Well enough. LOL. If Rodgers had gone 12-18 for 146 and a TD in one half with four scoring drives, against the Texans, we would be talking about how one of the Elites are torching the Texans again.

It's OK to say it. He played very well in that first half. That doesn't make him Rodgers or even the long term answer for this team.
 
sandman said:
Why not? We are quick to throw out his stats and where he ranks against everyone else when he is playing bad.

Well enough. LOL. If Rodgers had gone 12-18 for 146 and a TD in one half with four scoring drives, against the Texans, we would be talking about how one of the Elites are torching the Texans again.

It's OK to say it. He played very well in that first half. That doesn't make him Rodgers or even the long term answer for this team.
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I never count much on stats for any QB.

If Rodgers were playing, it would have been a massacre.

:swatter:
 
Brock's two best games were against the same team: The Raiders. Other than that he hasn't been very good. We can't say he played good finally so he may be turning the corner. The common denominator here is the opposing team who just let go their secondary coach for an under performing secondary. Let's not David Carr this thing and rush to give him an extension after a good game.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/report-raiders-fire-db-coach-marcus-robertson/
 
Double Barrel said:
The old saying about you can take a horse to water but can't make him drink comes to mind.

O'Brien seemed to improve the games of the previous 7 QBs before Brock arrived here.
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Did he?

Hoyer & Fitzpatrick, yeah.

But the young guys; Mallett, Keenum, Yates.... even Weeden didn't really have a record to improve.

Being able to win with has been QBs he gets an A. Even winning with unproven QBs... A & Osweiler would be included in that group.

But he's never developed a QB. & that's what we're asking him to do.
 
thunderkyss said:
Did he?

Hoyer & Fitzpatrick, yeah.

But the young guys; Mallett, Keenum, Yates.... even Weeden didn't really have a record to improve.

Being able to win with has been QBs he gets an A. Even winning with unproven QBs... A & Osweiler would be included in that group.

But he's never developed a QB. & that's what we're asking him to do.
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The odd thing is that OB has shown that he can tailor a good game plan that suits a particular QB's skill sets. He hasn't done that with Os this season, with the exception of the WC game.
 
DocBar said:
The odd thing is that OB has shown that he can tailor a good game plan that suits a particular QB's skill sets. He hasn't done that with Os this season, with the exception of the WC game.
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Was it the Tennessee game that O'b scripted the first bunch of plays & Brock came out looking great... then fell back to earth again?
 
thunderkyss said:
Was it the Tennessee game that O'b scripted the first bunch of plays & Brock came out looking great... then fell back to earth again?
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Sounds right. I remember him looking good early and the play action touchdown pass which I believe was on the first drive. It was the first (and last) time I remember Brock looking like he may have actually handed the ball off on a play action pass.
 
Max said:
Sounds right. I remember him looking good early and the play action touchdown pass which I believe was on the first drive. It was the first (and last) time I remember Brock looking like he may have actually handed the ball off on a play action pass.
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Maybe thats the problem. Brock can only do well with scripted plays and highly practiced plays and sucks at improvising or changing on the fly. Kubiak scripted plays too so there's that.
 
thunderkyss said:
Did he?

Hoyer & Fitzpatrick, yeah.

But the young guys; Mallett, Keenum, Yates.... even Weeden didn't really have a record to improve.

Being able to win with has been QBs he gets an A. Even winning with unproven QBs... A & Osweiler would be included in that group.

But he's never developed a QB. & that's what we're asking him to do.
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If Savage can stay healthy we could see of OB can develop a QB...he has looked as good as Os so far.
 
DocBar said:
The odd thing is that OB has shown that he can tailor a good game plan that suits a particular QB's skill sets. He hasn't done that with Os this season, with the exception of the WC game.
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Not really.

I think HC do try to adjust to each QB, but one cannot abandon the system.

In my eyes, OB isnt bad; he is just mediocre. He wants his QB to play clean and let the D takes care of biz.

With Fitz, he reigned in the QB to minimize his errors. There's plus and minus there.
Previously, Fitz was allowed to try to make plays more, like when he was with the Titans, but he also made more mistakes.
(There were balls thrown right into the laps of DBs that were either dropped or had a good chance of being intercepted.)

With Hoyer, he gave the QB more freedom, but Hoyer just doesn't have enough of an arm.

With Osweiler, he wants the QB to get the ball out sooner (since Osweiler can make mistake when he holds on to the ball) but still take a shot down field here and there.

It's just Mediocre on Mediocre and there never was a win-win solution.

The guy that can get the ball out on time in his system (Hoyer) doesn't have the arm.

Osweiler is the opposite.

Savage, to me, is a better medium than Fitz, but he's
Texansphan said:
Perhaps not a high draft pick, premier type guy but I think he's done a good job with Savage.
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TexansBull said:
Maybe thats the problem. Brock can only do well with scripted plays and highly practiced plays and sucks at improvising or changing on the fly. Kubiak scripted plays too so there's that.
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Maybe. It's hard to know when he's checked out of the original call and how much improvising he's actually doing.

I felt like he showed promise in both Raiders games and against Indy but it seemed clear to me that those games were called differently and were more tailored to his skill set. It's hard to say if the games this season were called the way they were because of OL issues, not trusting Brock, incompetence or some combination of those factors. If the OL is addressed this off-season and Brock plays next year, we should have a better sense of what the issues were this year.
 
Texaspat said:
With the money tied up in Osweiller and Osweiller being un-tradeable, the following is a list of directions we could go….
1. Bench Osweiller, suck it up and play Savage
2. Grab a cheap draft prospect. Maybe in the middle rounds. THis year's draft is very weak at the QB position. I wouldn't trade up for Watson or anyone else..at least not this year.
3. Grab a cheap FA veteran.

We won't be able to afford Garoppolo. Even if we trade for him, he's on the last year of his contract and will want starter money. Can't afford to pay Osweiller and him starter money.

There is of course the pull in case of emergency option still available…that option while it could work, would require no sacred elephants approach.
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Sure you can get Jimmy G if you want him. Give a 1st and a 4th and a 2018 1st and he's yours. Either let him play out his contract and franchise him, or cut Cushing/JoJo and use the $$$$ to sign Jimmy G long term. It can be done. It wont be done because Rick McNair is married to Os, which I'm sure pisses off BOB.
 
thunderkyss said:
Did he?

Hoyer & Fitzpatrick, yeah.

But the young guys; Mallett, Keenum, Yates.... even Weeden didn't really have a record to improve.

Being able to win with has been QBs he gets an A. Even winning with unproven QBs... A & Osweiler would be included in that group.

But he's never developed a QB. & that's what we're asking him to do.
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Did we?

You'd think with an alleged "QB guru" they'd pick up a QB or two in the higher rounds of the draft for him to actually develop instead of getting other teams' leftover scraps and giraffe boy.

I've always been a bit dubious about the whole guru tag, but that's he label the media kept using about him, regardless if his history supports it or not.
 
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steelbtexan said:
You cant guru accuracy.

Best you can do is try to limit your crappy QB's mistakes. Which is what BOB has been ttrying to do all season. Which leads to an incredibly boring offense when coupled with a terrible OL.
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He looked pretty accurate Saturday & on several drives throughout the season. Instead of tucking his tail OB should have been focusing on what Brock does well.

Again, he's had a good drive or two or three in every game. Figure out how to get more per game.
 
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Double Barrel said:
Did we?

You'd think with an alleged "QB guru" they'd pick up a QB or two in the higher rounds of the draft for him to actually develop instead of getting other teams' leftover scraps and giraffe boy.

I've always been a bit dubious about the whole guru tag, but that's he label the media kept using about him, regardless if his history supports it or not.
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So you agree he's not a guru?
 
thunderkyss said:
So you agree he's not a guru?
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I've never thought so, but I keep reading and hearing that he is from the media.

I'm not even convinced that he's an above-average offensive coordinator. I guess his NE pedigree accounts for something, but if we're honest, Brady & Belichick make everyone look better.

I think he's a solid head coach from a motivational perspective, but we still need to see him get this team over the hump to compete with the consistently good teams in the NFL before I crown his ass.
 
Double Barrel said:
I've never thought so, but I keep reading and hearing that he is from the media.

I'm not even convinced that he's an above-average offensive coordinator. I guess his NE pedigree accounts for something, but if we're honest, Brady & Belichick make everyone look better.

I think he's a solid head coach from a motivational perspective, but we still need to see him get this team over the hump to compete with the consistently good teams in the NFL before I crown his ass.
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Would he be able to check his ego enough to change OCs and philosophies to keep the HC job or is so egotistical that he'll try his luck elsewhere, base on MSM perceptions?
 
Double Barrel said:
I'm not even convinced that he's an above-average offensive coordinator. I guess his NE pedigree accounts for something, but if we're honest, Brady & Belichick make everyone look better.
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I wonder how involved Belichick is on the offensive side including play calling. I always thought he was more of a defensive guy.
 
thunderkyss said:
I wonder how involved Belichick is on the offensive side including play calling. I always thought he was more of a defensive guy.
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His background is defense, but watching some of the documentaries like A Football Life (his was two episodes), he breaks down film with Brady. I believe he's in on the overall strategy, but let's his OC call the actual plays during the game unless he wants something specific.

Here's an article from 2011 where he talks about his role: Belichick offers glimpse into his role
 
Double Barrel said:
I've never thought so, but I keep reading and hearing that he is from the media.

I'm not even convinced that he's an above-average offensive coordinator. I guess his NE pedigree accounts for something, but if we're honest, Brady & Belichick make everyone look better.

I think he's a solid head coach from a motivational perspective, but we still need to see him get this team over the hump to compete with the consistently good teams in the NFL before I crown his ass.
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I think OB is still learning how to be a HC and I am OK with that as long as he is learning and improving. I think he has improved the "toughness" of this team and that is a big factor in winning the games we lead at halftime. If we can solve the problems on the offense, we can become a real juggernaut. I do not want to make a HC change at the moment - it would set us back too far and I have haven't come to the conclusion that OB is not/can't be the HC we need. We have yet to see the coach that OB can become. I don't want to cut him loose and let another team find out he is a gem.
 
Thorsson said:
Start Brandon Weeden; he is the best QB on this team. BOB should be fired for "giving" the starting job to Osweiler, rather than having him earn it. Anyone in the cheap seats can see that Osweiler is the worst free agent signing in NFL history!
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Gee, the Fake News is even on this Forum.
 
bigmck said:
Gee, the Fake News is even on this Forum.
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Not fake news. There are legitament arguments for believing that Weeden could execute our offense as well, or superior to, both Oz and Savage. The big knock on him is his age. But this is a non-issue now at the end of the season. We will never know how he would have performed.
 
Texas Jake said:
I think OB is still learning how to be a HC and I am OK with that as long as he is learning and improving. I think he has improved the "toughness" of this team and that is a big factor in winning the games we lead at halftime. If we can solve the problems on the offense, we can become a real juggernaut. I do not want to make a HC change at the moment - it would set us back too far and I have haven't come to the conclusion that OB is not/can't be the HC we need. We have yet to see the coach that OB can become. I don't want to cut him loose and let another team find out he is a gem.
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I agree. I'm not black & white/for or against with regards to O'Brien. I recognize his shortcomings and hope he improves in that regard. But, I also see a lot of potential and there are some things that make me smile as a Texans fan. His three winning seasons mean something, and I cannot help but dig the 19-0 record his teams have when leading at halftime. That tells me his teams are tough and know how to close games, which was not always the case with previous head coaches.

Hopefully, O'Brien is evolving as an offensive coach and learns from his mistakes. I predict this division is going to be very competitive next year, and 9-7 might not be good enough to win it. The next evolution for this team is competing and beating the consistently good teams, as well as getting past the second round of the playoffs.
 
Double Barrel said:
I agree. I'm not black & white/for or against with regards to O'Brien. I recognize his shortcomings and hope he improves in that regard. But, I also see a lot of potential and there are some things that make me smile as a Texans fan. His three winning seasons mean something, and I cannot help but dig the 19-0 record his teams have when leading at halftime. That tells me his teams are tough and know how to close games, which was not always the case with previous head coaches.

Hopefully, O'Brien is evolving as an offensive coach and learns from his mistakes. I predict this division is going to be very competitive next year, and 9-7 might not be good enough to win it. The next evolution for this team is competing and beating the consistently good teams, as well as getting past the second round of the playoffs.
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Sorry, I think you give O'Brien to much credit. That should go to RC and his staffs.

O'Brien's offense continues to plummet. It's getting worse in the redzone. That's not something I'd call tough.
 
Texecutioner said:
He doesn't. Josh calls the plays.
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Yep, but Belichick is still in on it according to his own words:

From an interview in 2011 when O'Brien was OC (source article linked above):

"Call [O'Brien] whatever you want to call him, it doesn’t matter. Whoever is calling plays, if the head coach is involved with the play-calling or the organization of the play-calling, then I’m going to talk to the person that calls the plays. If I’m not, then he calls them and you know, there’s no input from the head coach, that’s alright, too. I’m not saying it has to be one way or the other, but however you’re structured to set it up, that’s how it's set up. But the way it’s structured here is, I’ll take responsibility for all the plays that are called. I have the final say on it. If I don’t want to run the play, then I can call it off – that’s my right as a head coach. Any of the bad ones, you can blame me for because ultimately I could change them if I wanted to."
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