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Preseason GM 3: the 49ers

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Apparently you didn't see Cooks catching a pass for a TD from Brady to beat the Texans in Foxboro. He didn't look like his best days were behind him last yr. If he can keep from getting concussed then I expect Cooks to put up similar numbers like he did last yr.
Cooks has always been a very productive wr. The Saints should've kept him because he was the only one who scared a defense opposite of Thomas. Those concussions are probably the biggest concern with him.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I’m telling you what a coach would tell you. You’re looking at it the wrong way. Those I mentioned will have a chance to show their worth in this new offensive scheme. Will they actually pan out, we shall see. And come on don’t put yourself out there like that. Try out and Make the team first lol.
So I'm confused, are you talking about being a weapon for Mills or being a weapon for the Texans because yes there is a difference. If we are talking about Mills then he has nobody of note, except MAYBE Cooks, if we are talking about the Texans...well they still have nobody of note but there are a few more options especially if they go run heavy.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
So I'm confused, are you talking about being a weapon for Mills or being a weapon for the Texans because yes there is a difference. If we are talking about Mills then he has nobody of note, except MAYBE Cooks, if we are talking about the Texans...well they still have nobody of note but there are a few more options especially if they go run heavy.
Nevermind
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
No arguing there. I simply said you can evaluate a qb without having every skill position loaded.
I agree you can but the QB position is so valued and so hard to fill that teams are very gun shy about losing a good one just because he had no targets. Its why guys like Cousins and Carr are kept around and why teams bring in guys like Wentz. Everything about them says they're not the guy but then you look at a QB like Brady was in his last year with the Pats. He looked horrible and if he wasn't who he was everyone would have said he's washed up, but since it was Brady they realized that he had absolutely no one to throw to. You talk about evaluating QBs as though anyone can do it but frankly history has shown that almost no coach or GM can do it with any kind of continued success. It why guys like Ryan Leaf get drafted high while Brady is drafted in the 6th round. Its why guys like the Blunder of Oz is drafted by one of the all time greats to play QB, sits behind another all time great to play QB, is signed to a mega contract and still bombs.
 
I think we see marked improvement in many areas of our team but we still will be lucky to win at least 6 games. I expect a slow start. Having Will Fuller back in the mix would go a long way to giving us a few more wins than we are projected to win.

When it comes to this season I have no false illusions that we will make the playoffs, aka "shock the world," but I will be happy if we play an exciting brand of football and compete in most of the games we play! I see that as the best scenario for us! As things appear to be, I see 6 wins as a real possibility. Any more wins than that will be icing on the cake!
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Why is it that everyone that doesn't agree with your exact wording is 'looking at it the wrong way'?
Because he’s looking at it wrong. That’s why and I don’t give two F’s if a member doesn’t agree with me or not. Let’s go ask Lovie and Pep about whose their weapons on offense.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Because he’s looking at it wrong. That’s why and I don’t give two F’s if a member doesn’t agree with me or not. Let’s go ask Lovie and Pep about whose their weapons on offense.
Don't take it so personal, it's just his opinion so how can it be wrong?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Don't take it so personal, it's just his opinion so how can it be wrong?
Normally I agree. But considering who he’s talking to I consider it charity. We should make a point to help those with inferior mental acumen
 

vtech9

Veteran
Will Fuller will not draw double coverage. He doesn't scare defenses. Granted, he is better than some of what is currently on our roster, but that's not saying much. If I'm going to bring someone in, I want them to be able to draw enough attention to themselves to open up the other receiving options.

Let me be clear, I do NOT want OBJ on the Texans, but I want someone that can draw double coverages like he can. However, if Cooks stays at the WR1 spot, I want someone that can break down coverages underneath. Beasley does that. Fuller does neither. If he did, Miami would have kept him, but I guess 4 catches last season didn't exactly equate to him being a weapon for them.
 

vtech9

Veteran
Anybody that can be 30 yards down field before the defense even realizes they have taken off is a threat. There are very few defenders that could keep up with Fuller's speed so you had to keep someone back deep field and hope they could get to him before he caught the ball. As far as OBJ goes I've always thought he was overrated frankly. He had that amazing catch against Dallas but after that he was good but didn't help the Giants and later the Browns all that much. Plus he's a diva and we just got rid of our diva.
Fuller has speed. That's it. Jalen Camp, Dorsett, and Cooks have Speed. Fuller has never had great hands. I just don't see him as much of an upgrade over what we have already, and not worth the price.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Will Fuller will not draw double coverage. He doesn't scare defenses. Granted, he is better than some of what is currently on our roster, but that's not saying much. If I'm going to bring someone in, I want them to be able to draw enough attention to themselves to open up the other receiving options.

Let me be clear, I do NOT want OBJ on the Texans, but I want someone that can draw double coverages like he can. However, if Cooks stays at the WR1 spot, I want someone that can break down coverages underneath. Beasley does that. Fuller does neither. If he did, Miami would have kept him, but I guess 4 catches last season didn't exactly equate to him being a weapon for them.
OBJ hasn't been doubled in years. I'm not saying Fuller is the answer, but to say he doesn't scare defenses is false. Fuller can take the top off the defense. Even the Texans offense looked alot better when Fuller was healthy with Hopkins. I'm not saying they should or will sign Fuller, but he's more of a threat with Cooks than anyone else available.
 

vtech9

Veteran
OBJ hasn't been doubled in years. I'm not saying Fuller is the answer, but to say he doesn't scare defenses is false. Fuller can take the top off the defense. Even the Texans offense looked alot better when Fuller was healthy with Hopkins. I'm not saying they should or will sign Fuller, but he's more of a threat with Cooks than anyone else available.
We'll have to disagree here. I think we are better off developing one of the young guys than bringing in a guy that we have already kicked to the curb.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
OBJ hasn't been doubled in years. I'm not saying Fuller is the answer, but to say he doesn't scare defenses is false. Fuller can take the top off the defense. Even the Texans offense looked alot better when Fuller was healthy with Hopkins. I'm not saying they should or will sign Fuller, but he's more of a threat with Cooks than anyone else available.
Not only that, Fuller’s route running was pretty darn good as well. It’s the injuries for me.
 
man we def got some HATERS on here...

1. OBJ is not only clutch but a huge threat on ANY route he runs and is a willing blocker down the field....Dont believe me? Go back and re-watch his stint with the Rams on their way to the SB...he was so damn good that the league drug tested him thinking there was no way he could be playing that well w/o cheating...turns out he was CLEAN and eating every DB's lunch and taking their lunch money. You can dislike him for whatever reason (hookers and blow come to mind) but the guy has turned it around since and has played LIGHTS OUT. His combination of Speed, Hands, Body control, Route running and experience make him one of the biggest threats EVERYTIME he steps on a football field.

2. Will Fuller is also a threat...anytime you have that kind of speed on the field YOU HAVE TO PLAN AND DEFEND against that speed and the threat of taking the top off the house and your defense. His hands and route running improved over the years, but yes his durability and ability to stay healthy has ALWAYS been the ? with him. But to sit there and try to flat out deny that he is a skillful threat at the WR position is just ASSININE. PRETTY PLEASE show me one example JUST ONE EXAMPLE of when a defense just left him alone uncovered and let him run around freely since he was sooooo feeble and such a crappy receiver.

3. Cooks.....wow I am really surprised at how many "Texans fans" crap on this guy....He may be smaller than your IDEAL WR1, but all of yall denying his skill and game are LUDICROUS. Maybe yall should go back and see just how many 1k yard seasons he's had, what teams he has done with with, what qb's he's had throwing him the ball, and ALL THE OTHER WR'S he's OUTPERFORMED year in and year out....yall are just FREAKING SAD....just b/c he's been snubbed of pro bowls doesnt mean he's not a GREAT WR...at any position WR1, 2 or the slot...he so damn good he can play them all and does it without ever complaining. Just goes to work and does his job and whatever is asked of him
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
We'll have to disagree here. I think we are better off developing one of the young guys than bringing in a guy that we have already kicked to the curb.
What young guys? No seriously what young guys are you talking about? The only young guys we have at the WR position is Wedington, acquired off of waivers, Johnson III, an UDFA, or Collins who is the only one that actually might be a starter and we are already developing him with or without Fuller. Everyone else has been in the league for multiple years and have been on multiple teams. So again I ask which young guys are you referring to?
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
man we def got some HATERS on here...

1. OBJ is not only clutch but a huge threat on ANY route he runs and is a willing blocker down the field....Dont believe me? Go back and re-watch his stint with the Rams on their way to the SB...he was so damn good that the league drug tested him thinking there was no way he could be playing that well w/o cheating...turns out he was CLEAN and eating every DB's lunch and taking their lunch money. You can dislike him for whatever reason (hookers and blow come to mind) but the guy has turned it around since and has played LIGHTS OUT. His combination of Speed, Hands, Body control, Route running and experience make him one of the biggest threats EVERYTIME he steps on a football field.
First no the league didn't drug test him because he was so good, his big game against the cardinals honestly was way overhyped. He caught four passes for a combined 54 yards, 1 TD and then threw a pass in a trick play. Throwing out the trick play, which they did when they were up 21-0 and really who cares if a WR can throw, 4 catches for just a little more than half the field and 1 TD isn't that impressive. You add in his high price, diva attitude and yeah he's not worth the effort. There has also been questions about how much effort he put into playing when he was in Cleveland because he didn't want to be there, can't blame him on that. Still a good player and would be an instant WR1 on the Texans but he's no where near the pro bowl level player he was in 2014-2016

2. Will Fuller is also a threat...anytime you have that kind of speed on the field YOU HAVE TO PLAN AND DEFEND against that speed and the threat of taking the top off the house and your defense. His hands and route running improved over the years, but yes his durability and ability to stay healthy has ALWAYS been the ? with him. But to sit there and try to flat out deny that he is a skillful threat at the WR position is just ASSININE. PRETTY PLEASE show me one example JUST ONE EXAMPLE of when a defense just left him alone uncovered and let him run around freely since he was sooooo feeble and such a crappy receiver.
Mostly I agree with this but the fact remains that Fuller breaks or tears something if someone looks at him to hard. For the Texans purposes that would be fine as we just need him as a target for Mills but for other teams the lighting fast speed doesn't make up for the glass durability. Sometimes the best ability is availability.

3. Cooks.....wow I am really surprised at how many "Texans fans" crap on this guy....He may be smaller than your IDEAL WR1, but all of yall denying his skill and game are LUDICROUS. Maybe yall should go back and see just how many 1k yard seasons he's had, what teams he has done with with, what qb's he's had throwing him the ball, and ALL THE OTHER WR'S he's OUTPERFORMED year in and year out....yall are just FREAKING SAD....just b/c he's been snubbed of pro bowls doesnt mean he's not a GREAT WR...at any position WR1, 2 or the slot...he so damn good he can play them all and does it without ever complaining. Just goes to work and does his job and whatever is asked of him
Sure, ok lets do that. Here's how they break down.

2015 - Saints were the team and Drew Brees the QB
2016 - Saints were the team and Drew Brees the QB
2017 - Patriots were the team and Tom Brady the QB
2018 - Rams were the team and Jared Goff the QB
2020 - Texans were the team and Deshaun Watson the QB
2021 - Texans were the team and Tyrod Taylor and later David Mills the QB

So that breaks down to first two seasons with a future HoF QB, one season with the GOAT, one season with Goff on his second pro bowl year in row, one season with Watson, I'll let you draw your own opinions on ability but it was his best statistical year and then last year where he was pretty much the only WR worth throwing to. I'm sorry was your point that he has had crappy teams and QBs or that he has had amazing teams and QBs? If its the former might want to do some research first and if its the latter then doesn't that just hurt your argument? Look no one is saying Cooks isn't a good WR but be honest, if he is the only threat on the field and other teams know that and they start double covering him like they use to do Hopkins do you really think he's going to win those match ups? Add to that Mills is a rookie QB with still questionable ability who is going to default back to his first target, Cooks, and it makes for a bad situation overall.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
First no the league didn't drug test him because he was so good, his big game against the cardinals honestly was way overhyped. He caught four passes for a combined 54 yards, 1 TD and then threw a pass in a trick play. Throwing out the trick play, which they did when they were up 21-0 and really who cares if a WR can throw, 4 catches for just a little more than half the field and 1 TD isn't that impressive. You add in his high price, diva attitude and yeah he's not worth the effort. There has also been questions about how much effort he put into playing when he was in Cleveland because he didn't want to be there, can't blame him on that. Still a good player and would be an instant WR1 on the Texans but he's no where near the pro bowl level player he was in 2014-2016

Mostly I agree with this but the fact remains that Fuller breaks or tears something if someone looks at him to hard. For the Texans purposes that would be fine as we just need him as a target for Mills but for other teams the lighting fast speed doesn't make up for the glass durability. Sometimes the best ability is availability.



Sure, ok lets do that. Here's how they break down.

2015 - Saints were the team and Drew Brees the QB
2016 - Saints were the team and Drew Brees the QB
2017 - Patriots were the team and Tom Brady the QB
2018 - Rams were the team and Jared Goff the QB
2020 - Texans were the team and Deshaun Watson the QB
2021 - Texans were the team and Tyrod Taylor and later David Mills the QB

So that breaks down to first two seasons with a future HoF QB, one season with the GOAT, one season with Goff on his second pro bowl year in row, one season with Watson, I'll let you draw your own opinions on ability but it was his best statistical year and then last year where he was pretty much the only WR worth throwing to. I'm sorry was your point that he has had crappy teams and QBs or that he has had amazing teams and QBs? If its the former might want to do some research first and if its the latter then doesn't that just hurt your argument? Look no one is saying Cooks isn't a good WR but be honest, if he is the only threat on the field and other teams know that and they start double covering him like they use to do Hopkins do you really think he's going to win those match ups? Add to that Mills is a rookie QB with still questionable ability who is going to default back to his first target, Cooks, and it makes for a bad situation overall.
When it comes to Cooks

Any rookie who puts up 1,000 yds is rare. Well not as rare as it used to be in Godell's NFL.

1,000 with Goff at QB is an accomplishment. I don't suspect Goff will be making anymore pro bowls. Hope I'm wrong since I've got him on my FF team.

He was getting those double teams you are talking about last yr and putting up 1,000 yds with Taylor and Mills as your QB is an accomplishment. But I can see how you're looking at things.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What young guys? No seriously what young guys are you talking about? The only young guys we have at the WR position is Wedington, acquired off of waivers, Johnson III, an UDFA, or Collins who is the only one that actually might be a starter and we are already developing him with or without Fuller. Everyone else has been in the league for multiple years and have been on multiple teams. So again I ask which young guys are you referring to?
Metchie was meant to be the other young guy.

Man, I really wanted Caserio to draft Kyle Phillips.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
Metchie was meant to be the other young guy.

Man, I really wanted Caserio to draft Kyle Phillips.
And that would be fine if he could play this season and I don't think I'd be near as in favor of bringing a guy like Fuller in but it didn't work out that way. I can't fault the Texans on Metchie being out the season after being drafted either because cancer isn't exactly something that you can look at the medical history and see coming. For Metchie its got to be heartbreaking and scary as Hell but hopefully he makes a full recovery, for the Texans well once again we get to be the football gods punching bag.
 

vtech9

Veteran
What young guys? No seriously what young guys are you talking about? The only young guys we have at the WR position is Wedington, acquired off of waivers, Johnson III, an UDFA, or Collins who is the only one that actually might be a starter and we are already developing him with or without Fuller. Everyone else has been in the league for multiple years and have been on multiple teams. So again I ask which young guys are you referring to?
I don't see a big difference between Fuller and Camp or Dorsett. AND...since the Texans have ALREADY kicked Fuller to the curb, I do NOT see them bringing him back. Especially after he only played 4 games last season with 4 catches TOTAL in those 4 games, before he got a hangnail, and was out for the year. I know, it wasn't a hangnail, I was being facetious, but still it was another injury that kept him out for the whole year.
 

maverick512000

Hall of Fame
I don't see a big difference between Fuller and Camp or Dorsett. AND...since the Texans have ALREADY kicked Fuller to the curb, I do NOT see them bringing him back. Especially after he only played 4 games last season with 4 catches TOTAL in those 4 games, before he got a hangnail, and was out for the year. I know, it wasn't a hangnail, I was being facetious, but still it was another injury that kept him out for the whole year.
Ok yeah @thunderkyss is right, this is pointless. Fuller must have kicked your dog or something because you aren't even being anything close to objective. Thats fine and I doubt Texans will sign him anyway but I doubt its for any of the reasons you say as they could offer him a contract that basically has some guaranteed money and the rest is incentives and per game pay outs for when he does get injured.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I will grant you that and as a WR2 he would be perfect but not as WR1. He's turned in a lot of yards but you can't really say that he's gone out and won games for his team. On top of that he's been in the league almost 10 years now so you know that has taken its toll and his best days are behind him.
It's hard for a WR to go out and win games on a team as devoid of talent as the Texans have been the last couple of years. Especially as bad as the defense has been.
 

Xopher

Noob
See thats exactly what I said, he's perfect for WR2 but the problem is we need him to be WR1. Yeah he looked good last year but he's no Cooper, Hopkins, Hill or Fitzgerald to do that all the time. Now I will grant you those guys are superstars and no not every team is going to have a superstar, in fact most won't, and they can also make a QB look better than he is because they are so good. But there has to be a happy middle ground between all pro and "just making do with what we have" that we could find and sign. Said it before but I think Metchie was suppose to be that guy and him having to be out for the season has left the team scrambling.
I don't think Metchie was going to be that guy this year. Usually rookie WRs need at least a year. That's fine, but I'm not sure he would have been truly full speed and confident in his knee until next year.
 

Lucky

Trust Me. I Know What I'm Doing.
Staff member
Ok we all know that Lovie and Pep are run first guys. My concern is that since Pierce has played so well that they will get fixated on him and run him to death. He runs so hard, I could see him not lasting very long. If they try to run him for 300 times plus in the season, we will need to remember him, because he won't be around for long.
The 2008 Bears, with Lovie as HC and Pep an assistant, rookie RB Matt Forte had 379 touches. 23.7 touches/game. So there's precedent for your concern.

We saw what can happen to a RB that carries the load for a team. And I'm not even talking about Earl. Domanick Davis averaged 23.1 touches his first 3 seasons in the NFL. They were also the only seasons in Domanick's career. On the flip side, Matt Forte continued to carry a heavy load and had a 10 year career, with 1000+ scrimmage yards in 9 seasons.

There's no reason for the Texans to give Pierce 20 touches/game. This is not a contending team. Keep the number between 200-250 for the year and have Pierce ready when it's time to make that playoff push.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
The 2008 Bears, with Lovie as HC and Pep an assistant, rookie RB Matt Forte had 379 touches. 23.7 touches/game. So there's precedent for your concern.

We saw what can happen to a RB that carries the load for a team. And I'm not even talking about Earl. Domanick Davis averaged 23.1 touches his first 3 seasons in the NFL. They were also the only seasons in Domanick's career. On the flip side, Matt Forte continued to carry a heavy load and had a 10 year career, with 1000+ scrimmage yards in 9 seasons.

There's no reason for the Texans to give Pierce 20 touches/game. This is not a contending team. Keep the number between 200-250 for the year and have Pierce ready when it's time to make that playoff push.
Why do that when you can just draft another back?
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
Why do that when you can just draft another back?
That's easy to say, but not necessarily easy to do for a really good back, plus we would use up a draft pick when we wouldn't have to if we manage his carries for a year or so. Personally, I would rather have the known good back (assuming he is one) and have the draft pick to use for another need.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
That's easy to say, but not necessarily easy to do for a really good back, plus we would use up a draft pick when we wouldn't have to if we manage his carries for a year or so. Personally, I would rather have the known good back (assuming he is one) and have the draft pick to use for another need.
Backs are a dime a dozen. Now special backs or transcendent ones aren't, but if they drafted Pierce in the 4th, why cant they draft another Pierce in 4 years? It happens all the time. I wouldn't give a rb a 2nd contract unless he's truly special because its a waste of money. C-Mac is special, look what happened to him. So is henry, he got hurt. Elliot hasn't been the same since his 1st 3 years in the league,but they drafted that kid from Memphis 3 yrs ago who is pushing Elliot out the door.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's easy to say, but not necessarily easy to do for a really good back, plus we would use up a draft pick when we wouldn't have to if we manage his carries for a year or so. Personally, I would rather have the known good back (assuming he is one) and have the draft pick to use for another need.
While I agree with your theory Lovie's history doesn't suggest that he agrees with us. Good thing is Caserio is good at drafting RB's and next yrs RB class is very deep. Charbonnet out of UCLA is my favorite. His running style is alot like Pierce's and he should be available in the 3rd rd. So that will take a load off of Pierce. Anyways, I dont want to turn this into another draft thread.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I'm thinking he gets close to 300 touches next yr. Then Caserio drafts another RB to help take a load off of Pierce starting his Soph yr.
I mean, they can bring in Sony this year and have him split carries like Chubb and Hunt. Don't really understand why Burkhead is here as a vet guy, but right on
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I mean, they can bring in Sony this year and have him split carries like Chubb and Hunt. Don't really understand why Burkhead is here as a vet guy, but right on
I'm for this and letting Michel get 10 or so touches a game. What WR do you think Caserio will bring in off of the WW?
 

vtech9

Veteran
Ok yeah @thunderkyss is right, this is pointless. Fuller must have kicked your dog or something because you aren't even being anything close to objective. Thats fine and I doubt Texans will sign him anyway but I doubt its for any of the reasons you say as they could offer him a contract that basically has some guaranteed money and the rest is incentives and per game pay outs for when he does get injured.
You don't agree. It doesn't bother me in the least. You like Fuller, I never have. It is what it is.
 

Sindicated

Practice Squad
I know people hate spencer tillmans commentary but im not gonna lie I typically watch the games faded out of my mind (losses are alot more exciting this way)

And his spencerism is comedy and the fact that hes dead serious makes it even funnier lightens up disappointment, but im a glass half full person anyway ive had to be to last the carr,green,reed,and especially the “one who shall not be spoken of” years.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
I know people hate spencer tillmans commentary but im not gonna lie I typically watch the games faded out of my mind (losses are alot more exciting this way)

And his spencerism is comedy and the fact that hes dead serious makes it even funnier lightens up disappointment, but im a glass half full person anyway ive had to be to last the carr,green,reed,and especially the “one who shall not be spoken of” years.
There was one thing that he said that I thought was just a Tillmanism but then I looked it up, and it's an actual old-time saying: Hell bent for election. There was even an FDR campaign film based on the saying. It basically means you'll do anything to get elected, or do anything to win.

I thought he was just screwing up the saying "Hell bent for leather." Which means moving quickly and with determination and generally fits more what Tillman is using the phrase to mean I think.
 


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