Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Pitre makes ALL ROOKIE D!

beerlover

Hall of Fame
That's awesome for Pitre, but it sure burns my ass to see Gardner all over every defensive award sheet and Stingley ending the season on IR.
Texans front office must of still been in recovery mode after finally unloading Watson. Think that severely tarnished their judgment, bypassing character concern prospects, even before seriously vetting to confirm those suspicions. They’re not gonna come out and say it, but you see posts reflecting raciest, selfish player, all about the money and endorsements concerns from fans who are frustrated with this franchise’s player talent acquisitions and terrific young players that are moved dirt cheap or just not resigned (Ross Blacklock, Charles Ohmenihu, Justin Reed, Zach Cunningham, D’Onta Forman, DJ Reader).
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Stingley ending the season on IR should have surprised no one. You draft a player who spent most of his college career being injured, and that's what you get.
I'm not the least bit surprised. I wanted Gardner from the beginning. I've heard all along that Stingley was a Smith pick, but Caserio should've pulled rank and taken the best talent over the HC's favorite pick. The injury concerns alone should've kept Stingley from being drafted in the 1st round, not to mention the "fall off a cliff" decline in his play due to the injuries.
 

Double Barrel

Clown Hunter
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Congrats, Pitre!! :texflag:

Texans front office must of still been in recovery mode after finally unloading Watson. Think that severely tarnished their judgment, bypassing character concern prospects, even before seriously vetting to confirm those suspicions. They’re not gonna come out and say it, but you see posts reflecting raciest, selfish player, all about the money and endorsements concerns from fans who are frustrated with this franchise’s player talent acquisitions and terrific young players that are moved dirt cheap or just not resigned (Ross Blacklock, Charles Ohmenihu, Justin Reed, Zach Cunningham, D’Onta Forman, DJ Reader).
John McClain said last year in a radio interview that the following factored into the pick:

SauceGardner.jpg
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Recognition is good, but FYI, the two guys drafted ahead of Pitre got injured early and played few games.

Pitre gets the nod as the next in line is par for the course.

He needs to become a better tackler somehow; the accolades aren't going to help him in that regard.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
This is going to be a lesson in what it felt like to be a Detroit Lions fan after they took Charles Rogers and then had to watch Andre Johnson tear it up for years.

"So that's what that feels like"

Way to go Pitre!
Quoted for truth.
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
I'm not the least bit surprised. I wanted Gardner from the beginning. I've heard all along that Stingley was a Smith pick, but Caserio should've pulled rank and taken the best talent over the HC's favorite pick. The injury concerns alone should've kept Stingley from being drafted in the 1st round, not to mention the "fall off a cliff" decline in his play due to the injuries.
Hey it’s the Texans way. They’re always drafting players coming off an injury or had numerous injuries throughout their collegiate careers.

I wanted Sauce as well. They should’ve went a different direction with the Metchie pick.
 

SnakeEyes

Under NRG
I'm not the least bit surprised. I wanted Gardner from the beginning. I've heard all along that Stingley was a Smith pick, but Caserio should've pulled rank and taken the best talent over the HC's favorite pick. The injury concerns alone should've kept Stingley from being drafted in the 1st round, not to mention the "fall off a cliff" decline in his play due to the injuries.
I did too. I had them 1a and 1b BUT I said I would never take 1a over 1b if they had any medical issues. Had we taken him in say the 3rd, I'd be ok with that. But, Lovie wanted his guy and Cal gave him the power of 1 pick...Stingley (still injured) or Sauce (looking like a shutdown CB in the NFL). He took Stingley 🙄. Side note, I understand Harris was also a Lovie pick. Pretty much Lovie was making the D picks and Caserio the O. To be fair both scored some good talent but Lovie crapped the bed with Stingley
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
It was all about personality. Gardner was loud and brash and Wrongly isn't. They want guys who will toe the line and Gardner won't be that kind of guy. I don't agree with it, but I understand why they want to avoid controversy and public attention. Gardner reminds me of Me angel o hall. Its all about making a splash and building brand. Yes they are very good corners, but not the most controllable guys. Selfish and looking for headlines.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Never had any doubts of Jalen Pitre. No brainer pick.
I still wish Sam Williams was the pick at 35.
Hey it’s the Texans way. They’re always drafting players coming off an injury or had numerous injuries throughout their collegiate careers.

I wanted Sauce as well. They should’ve went a different direction with the Metchie pick.
If Neal wasn't going to be the pick then I wanted Sauce. I put Sauce #1 in my last mock

I was with Texian and LeeBig in wanting Pickens over Metchie.

How would you have felt about a draft of

Sauce
Davis
Williams
Pickens
Pierce
Harris

It could've and should've happened. Although I still liked the last draft, it could've been better.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
Recognition is good, but FYI, the two guys drafted ahead of Pitre got injured early and played few games.

Pitre gets the nod as the next in line is par for the course.

He needs to become a better tackler somehow; the accolades aren't going to help him in that regard.
Of the three safeties taken ahead of Pitre - one made all-rookie (K Hamilton), one played 15 games (D Hill), and one was limited to 3 games due to injury (L Cine).
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Of the three safeties taken ahead of Pitre - one made all-rookie (K Hamilton), one played 15 games (D Hill), and one was limited to 3 games due to injury (L Cine).
My mistake.
Must have been a CB I looked at.

At any rate, Daxton Hill played behind two guys that were having a good year.

His PFF grade was still higher than Pitre, 58.1 to 54.7
The other two guys had way better PFF grades.

It says more about the Bengals than the Texans.

No telling how Hill would have done if he was with the Texans.
Pitre would ride the bench if he was with the Bengals just the same.

What I know is that I don't like my safety to be that weak in tackling.

If he doesn't improve on that end, he needs to be upgraded if you're aspired to win the big one.
 

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
My mistake.
Must have been a CB I looked at.

At any rate, Daxton Hill played behind two guys that were having a good year.

His PFF grade was still higher than Pitre, 58.1 to 54.7
The other two guys had way better PFF grades.

It says more about the Bengals than the Texans.

No telling how Hill would have done if he was with the Texans.
Pitre would ride the bench if he was with the Bengals just the same.

What I know is that I don't like my safety to be that weak in tackling.

If he doesn't improve on that end, he needs to be upgraded if you're aspired to win the big one.
He was tackling just fine out of the gate.....it was getting weaker as the season progressed. I believe the physicality of tackling at the NFL was a wakeup call for Pitre. Off-season to heal and add some quality weight will make a big difference.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
He was tackling just fine out of the gate.....it was getting weaker as the season progressed. I believe the physicality of tackling at the NFL was a wakeup call for Pitre. Off-season to heal and add some quality weight will make a big difference.
Pitre led the NFL in missed tackles after the 1st 2 weeks.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
He was tackling just fine out of the gate.....it was getting weaker as the season progressed. I believe the physicality of tackling at the NFL was a wakeup call for Pitre. Off-season to heal and add some quality weight will make a big difference.
Let’s give the lion’s share of the blame to the Texans paper thin defensive front. The worst in the league.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm not the least bit surprised. I wanted Gardner from the beginning. I've heard all along that Stingley was a Smith pick, but Caserio should've pulled rank and taken the best talent over the HC's favorite pick. The injury concerns alone should've kept Stingley from being drafted in the 1st round, not to mention the "fall off a cliff" decline in his play due to the injuries.
Amen !
Many of us have also "heard" that Stingley was the head coachs pick and I sure hope it's the truth because if so it would lessen my concerns about Casserio who I initially assumed was the ultimate decision maker in the Draft because given the alternatives that
were on the Board at #3 Stingley has to be viewed as a significant disappointment, at least at this point but admittedly it's early
in the evaluation process.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
Amen !
Many of us have also "heard" that Stingley was the head coachs pick and I sure hope it's the truth because if so it would lessen my concerns about Casserio who I initially assumed was the ultimate decision maker in the Draft because given the alternatives that
were on the Board at #3 Stingley has to be viewed as a significant disappointment, at least at this point but admittedly it's early
in the evaluation process.
After one year, the Stingley pick is an obvious bust. But after next year, will that evaluation change? We shall have to wait and see.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Amen !
Many of us have also "heard" that Stingley was the head coachs pick and I sure hope it's the truth because if so it would lessen my concerns about Casserio who I initially assumed was the ultimate decision maker in the Draft because given the alternatives that
were on the Board at #3 Stingley has to be viewed as a significant disappointment, at least at this point but admittedly it's early
in the evaluation process.
It doesn’t lessen my concerns about Caserio. Why would a GM let a HC who wasn’t going to be there for very long and who wasn’t even supposed to be the HC in the first place if not for the 2nd consecutive HC search screw up, make a pick as important as that one?
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
It doesn’t lessen my concerns about Caserio. Why would a GM let a HC who wasn’t going to be there for very long and who wasn’t even supposed to be the HC in the first place if not for the 2nd consecutive HC search screw up, make a pick as important as that one?
Caserio made the pick, whether it was Lovie's idea or not, and he bears the responsibility for it.

Unless Cal made him do it, but that's a whole different can of worms.
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
Lots of people have questions about why Nick is still here. I tend to think a handful of decisions were made that he was opposed to ,and maybe he was right? I think cal liked the way he handled the Watson ordeal and sees promise in most of his drafts. Jmo.
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
I remember a few years back hearing an ex nfl defensive player now in the media talk about tackling. He mentioned the reason a lot of guys don't form tackle is because they're trying to save themselves from shoulder and arm injuries. I don't even remember if I saw this on TV or heard it on the radio ,but it kinda made sense. Kinda.

Trouble is, this is a me first attitude and not a team first attitude. With JP specifically being a safety, he's often the last line of defense. He HAS TO make a lot of critical tackles. It can effect the game if he doesn't.

He's got great range and instincts ,if he can commit to sound tackling technique he can be an all-pro. Better hands would help to.
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
It seems me that a bunch of them are trying the highlight reel blast and wind up not actually making the tackle. Just put your dang head down, wrap up and make the tackle. Justifying to bowl over someone causes a lot of misses
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
It seems me that a bunch of them are trying the highlight reel blast and wind up not actually making the tackle. Just put your dang head down, wrap up and make the tackle. Justifying to bowl over someone causes a lot of misses

These guys aim for ankles at high speed because it's sexy. Form tackling someone and being dragged another yard or two isn't. But that's the kinda tackle a safety sometimes needs to make.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
They aim for ankles partly b/c of NFL targeting rules, but also b/c thats the best way for these undersized guys to get these bigger offensive guys down without getting concussed and/or run over.

the offensive guys know where they’re going..the defensive guys have to guess, react and then position themselves appropriately for the tackle. That takes on new meaning when you’re 197 lb db positioning yourself to tackle a 247 lb RB running with a full steam of Newton’s 3 laws of motion and force HEAVILY in their favor.

Like Deion says…this is a Game of business decisions.
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
They aim for ankles partly b/c of NFL targeting rules, but also b/c thats the best way for these undersized guys to get these bigger offensive guys down without getting concussed and/or run over.

the offensive guys know where they’re going..the defensive guys have to guess, react and then position themselves appropriately for the tackle. That takes on new meaning when you’re 197 lb db positioning yourself to tackle a 247 lb RB running with a full steam of Newton’s 3 laws of motion and force HEAVILY in their favor.

Like Deion says…this is a Game of business decisions.

And somehow every dB we start is anatomically missing arms to insure all ball carriers break tackles and gain yards? Don't argue for a second throwing a blind shoulder at full sprint is more effective then wrapping up.

Pitre isn't a linebacker. He's literally the last line of defense and should be the most sure tackler on the field.

He isn't.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
It doesn’t lessen my concerns about Caserio. Why would a GM let a HC who wasn’t going to be there for very long and who wasn’t even supposed to be the HC in the first place if not for the 2nd consecutive HC search screw up, make a pick as important as that one?
Because ownership promised Lovie pick # 1-3, why do you think Lovie was the guy that worked out both Sauce and Stingley? Lovie chose Stingley over Sauce. Not that Stingley will be a bad player, but he will never be as good as Sauce. I wont consider Stingley a bust if he's a top 10 CB in 3 yrs, even if Sauce is the better player.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They aim for ankles partly b/c of NFL targeting rules, but also b/c thats the best way for these undersized guys to get these bigger offensive guys down without getting concussed and/or run over.

the offensive guys know where they’re going..the defensive guys have to guess, react and then position themselves appropriately for the tackle. That takes on new meaning when you’re 197 lb db positioning yourself to tackle a 247 lb RB running with a full steam of Newton’s 3 laws of motion and force HEAVILY in their favor.

Like Deion says…this is a Game of business decisions.
Quoted for truth
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And somehow every dB we start is anatomically missing arms to insure all ball carriers break tackles and gain yards? Don't argue for a second throwing a blind shoulder at full sprint is more effective then wrapping up.

Pitre isn't a linebacker. He's literally the last line of defense and should be the most sure tackler on the field.

He isn't.
the most sure tacklers on the field should be your LBs. & Even the worst defenses
shouldn’t have your safeties as your leading tacklers….yet who is the Texans leading tacklers? You guessed it, Pitre 1 and Owens 2. that’s pretty telling right there. Your safeties shouldn’t be making more tackles than your damn LBs…those guys just aren’t built to take that type of punishment. Throwing their shoulders at guys without fully wrapping up at times is more of a fatigue/protective response to the abuse they had to undergo more than them just sucking at making tackles. They’re supposed to be more run support for anything 10 yards and in as opposed to primary tacklers in run support like they were too often in our shitty defense.
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
the most sure tacklers on the field should be your LBs. & Even the worst defenses
shouldn’t have your safeties as your leading tacklers….yet who is the Texans leading tacklers? You guessed it, Pitre 1 and Owens 2. that’s pretty telling right there. Your safeties shouldn’t be making more tackles than your damn LBs…those guys just aren’t built to take that type of punishment. Throwing their shoulders at guys without fully wrapping up at times is more of a fatigue/protective response to the abuse they had to undergo more than them just sucking at making tackles. They’re supposed to be more run support for anything 10 yards and in as opposed to primary tacklers in run support like they were too often in our shitty defense.

You do realize safeties line up BEHIND the linebackers as a last line of defense and their title as a position really lays it out clearly, right?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
You do realize safeties line up BEHIND the linebackers as a last line of defense and their title as a position really lays it out clearly, right?
Not always..but even if they are, They’re still 10-12+ yards off the LOS & they’re the last line of defense period..run or pass. that doesn’t mean they‘re supposed to be sure “tacklers”…just the last line of defenders that can stop a play…which could mean any number of things..

In any event its hella tougher to get a guy down running damn near full speed in open field than its when he’s still in the tackle box. Thats why you see many times db’s just force those guys out of bounds as opposed to trying to form tackle them when they get past the 2nd level. Use the sideline to your advantage.
 

powda

It's like a tsunami of love in your mouth.
In any event its hella tougher to get a guy down running damn near full speed in open field than its when he’s still in the tackle box. Thats why you see many times db’s just force those guys out of bounds as opposed to trying to trying to form tackle them when they get past the 2nd level. Use the sideline to your advantage.

Maybe I'm reading between the lines ,but you're encouraging an entire defense full of Deion "buisness decision" Sanders's?

See how far that goes.

If I see a fireman, I expect he'll know how to put out a fire.

If I see a guy starting for just one of thirty two teams in pro football - just 1 percent of 1 percent, I expect he'll know how to tackle and try.

Practice your craft. Do what you get paid to. Make a f'ing tackle.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Maybe I'm reading between the lines ,but you're encouraging an entire defense full of Deion "buisness decision" Sanders's?

See how far that goes.

If I see a fireman, I expect he'll know how to put out a fire.

If I see a guy starting for just one of thirty two teams in pro football - just 1 percent of 1 percent, I expect he'll know how to tackle and try.

Practice your craft. Do what you get paid to. Make a f'ing tackle.
like it or not, thats what the league is these days for DB’s. They get the big bucks to cover guys, not to tackle. They’re not getting drafted top 5 for their tackling skills. Its 1 thing to “know” how to tackle. Its another to be asked to be a Psuedo-LB play in play out.

Top db’s of yester year wore pads everywhere and as big of pads as their frame could accommodate to brace for all that physicality.

1674281483792.jpeg
1674281675750.jpeg

today’s top db’s? Direct opposite. Wear as little pads & the smallest they can get away with. Which is funny b/c these guys on average are smaller period.

1674281291864.jpeg
1674281792397.jpeg
 
Last edited:

OptimisticTexan

2022 Rebuilding Block 2 / Go Texans
These guys aim for ankles at high speed because it's sexy. Form tackling someone and being dragged another yard or two isn't. But that's the kinda tackle a safety sometimes needs to make.
This is why I want MLB, Jack Campbell (Iowa) on this defense in 2023. He’s a 6-5 246 lb form tackling machine who could take a lot of work off Pitre’s plate. This could be further improved by adding physical but big safety types like a SS, Antonio Johnson (Texas A&M / 6-3 @ 200 lbs) or a SS, JL Skinner (Boise State / 6-4 @ 220 lbs). Stingley and Pitre could become far more effective with 2 additions like this.

On a side note, Sauce Gardner made 75 tackles with 51 being solo. Jalen Pitre made 147 tackles with 99 being solo. He missed 21 tackles, which still put him in the play from a physical standpoint. Just wondering how Sauce’s season would’ve gone had he been required to play MLB like Pitre did?
 
Last edited:

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
This is why I want MLB, Jack Campbell (Iowa) on this defense in 2023. He’s a 6-5 246 lb form tackling machine who could take a lot of work off Pitre’s plate. This could be further improved by adding physical but big safety types like a SS, Antonio Johnson (Texas A&M / 6-3 @ 200 lbs) or a SS, JL Skinner (Boise State / 6-4 @ 220 lbs). Stingley and Pitre could become far more effective with 2 additions like this.

On a side note, Sauce Gardner made 75 tackles with 51 being solo. Jalen Pitre made 147 tackles with 99 being solo. He missed 21 tackles, which still put him in the play from a physical standpoint. Just wondering how Sauce’s season would’ve gone had he been required to play MLB like Pitre did?
more apple to apples comparison with Pitre, Harrison Smith only made 85 total tackles (66 solo) with the Vikings….clearly not anywhere near the 147 total tackles Pitre endured.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
It doesn’t lessen my concerns about Caserio. Why would a GM let a HC who wasn’t going to be there for very long and who wasn’t even supposed to be the HC in the first place if not for the 2nd consecutive HC search screw up, make a pick as important as that one?
C'mon Speedy you know a plausible answer to that question so I'm gonna assume you are just messing with me here.
Anyway if the owner usurps the GMs authority and delegates the authority to the coach then we've got the owner
atleast temporarily making the HC the GM and therefor making him the personnel decision-maker as Cal had already done previously with Bill O'Brien. So I think we've found out that the learning curve can be extremely steep for Cal.
That could have been how the Texans '22 Draft went down but I can't say with
certainty it's what happened, it's just an explanation for what could have happened.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
C'mon Speedy you know a plausible answer to that question so I'm gonna assume you are just messing with me here.
Anyway if the owner usurps the GMs authority and delegates the authority to the coach then we've got the owner
atleast temporarily making the HC the GM and therefor making him the personnel decision-maker as Cal had already done previously with Bill O'Brien. So I think we've found out that the learning curve can be extremely steep for Cal.
That could have been how the Texans '22 Draft went down but I can't say with
certainty it's what happened, it's just an explanation for what could have happened.
So you're telling me Lovie ran to Cal and told him he wanted Stingley but Nick wants Sauce, do something? If that's the case then this franchise is worse off than the most pessimistic of us could even dream of. Why is Nick even here then? And Cal says he's going to be more involved? This has such a Lions of the last 50 years feel to it.

It's much more believable to me that Nick tried to show off his smartness, overthought it and ignored all the red flags and went with Stingley. I mean this is the same guy who has given up 6 picks to draft 2 WRs the last 2 drafts, moved up twice to get a LB who can't even get on the field with as bad as the Texans LBs have been. He's also yet to draft a player from a non-power 5 school, which Sauce was from. So I'm not convinced Sauce was even on their board. They were going with Stingley no matter what. Lovie may have wanted that too, but I don't believe for a second he was the difference maker or the one running to Cal to decide.
 


Top