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Penn State Child Molestation Case

silvrhand said:
NCAA is supposed to deliver the death penalty today:

I disagree with this for a couple reasons, now don't shoot me cause what happened at Penn State is completely wrong and inexcusable. The people that are responsible this should be punished not the 1000's of students that will be impacted by the loss of revenue.

School should have to setup a fund that half it's revenue ever year go to for the next 10-15 years to sponsor kids of abuse. This would allow the current students to continue their tradition which has nothing to do with the cover up. I feel it's wrong to cover penalize 1000's of student for the decisions of the ones involved in the cover up.

Everyone of them should be in jail.
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I'm entirely OK with the death penalty and I think I'm on record around here somewhere as being originally against it for much the same reasons that you pointed out.

Now I think it's reasonable. I've changed my mind because I think that it is very important that no school ever again think that it's athletic program and its image be more important than doing the right thing.

Penn State will be made an example of and I promise you that after what's been revealed and what is to come no other school will be stupid enough to try and sweep a pedophile under the rug to keep their program safe and their reputation unsoiled.

....or no they won't. Just caught up and see what's happening. This works too. They're getting pounded as they should be. I still would not have minded the death penalty.
 
the penalties hurt, no doubt. but not as bad as what I was expecting.

four year bowl ban will scare off recruits, and the reduction in scholarships hurt. but no suspension of football operations and no TV ban (scared it will hurt other teams) especially make this a punishment bereft of some of the teeth it could've had.
 
Well, this way hopefully every school they play will beat the living crap out of them. Maybe this is better than the death penalty? If the program had gone into hibernation it would possibly have come out of "hibernation" with all these Penn State JoPa fans having their day in the sun when football returned. Now they get to do the four years of sucking like nobody there could possibly imagine. Losing is hard on fans and a program. Losing like they're going to lose will keep recruits away a lot longer than just the limits on scholarships. They'll carry that stink with them for a while and maybe that will hurt those people up there as much as any death penalty might.
 
Good points Herv. PSU will not be able to hang their heads in shame in private, the humiliation will be public for everyone to see.
 
Not really a death penalty (Certainly not worse than a death penalty) but it is harsher than what USC got. No decent recruit is going to want to play there for the next few years.
 
b0ng said:
Not really a death penalty (Certainly not worse than a death penalty) but it is harsher than what USC got. No decent recruit is going to want to play there for the next few years.
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Yep. They got the Walking Dead penalty. It's best for the NCAA, the school and their conference to keep them somewhat alive during their sentence. This way they field a team, get reamed for a few years, keep the program together, and after a half dozen or so years of terrible football they will be able to rebuild.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
They should be forced to pay for student transfers and any losses those students may have incurred having/wanting to do so.
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Agreed

They should've gotten the death penalty. This tells me no team will ever get the death penalty again.

NCAA thought process, Paying players> Child molestation

Glad to see Paternos win record taken away tough. May all involved in this mess spend many yrs in jail. Paterno got the easy way out by dying. IMHO
 
Dutchrudder said:
Yep. They got the Walking Dead penalty. It's best for the NCAA, the school and their conference to keep them somewhat alive during their sentence. This way they field a team, get reamed for a few years, keep the program together, and after a half dozen or so years of terrible football they will be able to rebuild.
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What if they're team is back to being a championship contender in 5 yrs?

I wanted them to have to go the 2 and a half decades of suck that SMU has had to go through. The death penalty certianly changed SMU's priorities and would've done the same to Penn St.
 
steelbtexan said:
What if they're team is back to being a championship contender in 5 yrs?

I wanted them to have to go the 2 and a half decades of suck that SMU has had to go through. The death penalty certianly changed SMU's priorities and would've done the same to Penn St.
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Im not sure the issues at Penn St and SMU can be compared at all. Even more so when you talk about NCAA rule violations and what not. While Im not against punishment in the Penn case the NCAA certainly changed the rules it opperates by in order to do anything in this case and lets not forget its better for the NCAA for Penn not to get wipped off the map for 20+ years
 
steelbtexan said:
What if they're team is back to being a championship contender in 5 yrs?

I wanted them to have to go the 2 and a half decades of suck that SMU has had to go through. The death penalty certianly changed SMU's priorities and would've done the same to Penn St.
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Why does it matter if they compete in 5 years? If they can do it, great, but the penalties aren't meant to hurt them beyond the 4 years stipulated.

The NCAA just laid a beatdown on the football program, they will have exactly 3 more scholarships than D2 schools at any given time. No one will want to go there after this, besides PSU alums children and local kids. Not only that, they now have a 60 million dollar fine and a loss of bowl revenue (13 million) to deal with. This football program will not be on its feet any time soon. I think the punishment was appropriate.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Why does it matter if they compete in 5 years? If they can do it, great, but the penalties aren't meant to hurt them beyond the 4 years stipulated.

The NCAA just laid a beatdown on the football program, they will have exactly 3 more scholarships than D2 schools at any given time. No one will want to go there after this, besides PSU alums children and local kids. Not only that, they now have a 60 million dollar fine and a loss of bowl revenue (13 million) to deal with. This football program will not be on its feet any time soon. I think the punishment was appropriate.
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I get what you're saying.

but I want the penalty to be the harshest in NCAA history. I would set a prescedent that an NCAA institution that knowingly allows children to be molested will suffer the worst consequences possible. This would be the ultimate deterrent in keeping an act like this from happening again.

The tought of a coach raping a child in the showers, (At the fielhouse or not) sickens me to no end. If this isn't the worst case of institutional control possible, I cant imagine a worse case, hence the death penalty.
 
steelbtexan said:
I get what you're saying.

but I want the penalty to be the harshest in NCAA history. I would set a prescedent that an NCAA institution that knowingly allows children to be molested will suffer the worst consequences possible. This would be the ultimate deterrent in keeping an act like this from happening again.

The tought of a coach raping a child in the showers, (At the fielhouse or not) sickens me to no end. If this isn't the worst case of institutional control possible, I cant imagine a worse case, hence the death penalty.
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I've got to agree with you, SMU's violations were worse than allowing 20yrs of pedophilia? I'm sorry, they should tear the stadium down!
 
Playoffs said:
I heard that $60 million is about what the football program clears in just one year.
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I dont think that is profit I think its revenue however either way taking away a full years worth a greatly impacting their ability to generate future revenue certainly makes the final financial impact greater
 
Playoffs said:
I heard that $60 million is about what the football program clears in just one year.
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Pretty close.

college-football-top-revenue-programs.jpg


Those numbers are just revenue (no expenses).
 
Penn St. raised 200 mil. from alumni last year alone, during the scandal. A 60 mil. penalty is nothing.


They should have gotten the death penalty.
 
2012Champs said:
Im not sure the issues at Penn St and SMU can be compared at all. Even more so when you talk about NCAA rule violations and what not. While Im not against punishment in the Penn case the NCAA certainly changed the rules it opperates by in order to do anything in this case and lets not forget its better for the NCAA for Penn not to get wipped off the map for 20+ years
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It's not about what's right for Penn St or the NCAA.

It's about a football legend letting little boys being raped and instead of doing the right thing and turning Sandusky into the police, he allows no telling how many more children to be molested.

Lack of institutional control.

If I were SMU I would start putting players back on the payroll starting next yr. If you aren't even going to lose TV time for letting little boys get raped.

The NCAA is a hypocritical joke. I'm not normally one to want congress to look into sports orgs. But in this case Cogress should not only look into the NCAA as a sanctoining body. It should also do away with the NCAA's rights to be judge and jury over its member institutions.

What do you think would've happened to an institution like UH in a situation like this? You can bet that it would've been far worse for UH.

The NCAA is a joke. But atleast one of the untouchables (Penn St) got a little bit of what should've been coming to them along time ago.
 
Death penelty. Only acceptable punishment.

I was watching one of the sports channels at lunch. The channel focused on a group of students as the penelties were announced. Each student had a look of horror and shook his/her head in disbelief during the announcements. One young lady even cried. I find this attitude hard to accept. These folks need to get thier priorities straight.
 
Bobby Bowden takes the lead as the most winning NCAA football coach. Joe Paterno falls back to #12.

Paterno loses 111 wins, cedes title to Bowden

John Swofford gave his state of the ACC address on Sunday morning at the ACC Kickoff in Greensboro, NC. “Currently, the winningest active FBS coach-Frank Beamer-and basketball coach-Mike Krzyzewski-reside in the ACC.”

Monday morning, NCAA president Mark Emmert announced penalties against Penn State, and former coach Joe Paterno, that strengthen Swofford's statement.

The NCAA vacated all of Penn State's wins from 1998 to 2011. The program will lose 112 victories. Joe Paterno's record got hit hard, too. He will lose 111 victories as a coach, going from 409 career wins to 298, and dropping from first to 12th on the all-time wins list. Former Florida State coach Bobby Bowden is now the all-time leader in FBS coaching wins. Coupled with Duke's Krzyzewski, who passed Bob Knight on the basketball wins list last November, the winningest all-time football and basketball coaches spent much of their careers competing in the ACC.

Bowden coached the Seminoles from 1976 to 2009, following six seasons at the helm of West Virginia. He won 389 games at the FBS level, 377 of which are recognized by the NCAA. He leads the ACC in all-time victories, conference wins, winning percentage, and won twice as many ACC titles as any other coach.

....
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steelbtexan said:
It's not about what's right for Penn St or the NCAA.

It's about a football legend letting little boys being raped and instead of doing the right thing and turning Sandusky into the police, he allows no telling how many more children to be molested.

Lack of institutional control.

If I were SMU I would start putting players back on the payroll starting next yr. If you aren't even going to lose TV time for letting little boys get raped.

The NCAA is a hypocritical joke. I'm not normally one to want congress to look into sports orgs. But in this case Cogress should not only look into the NCAA as a sanctoining body. It should also do away with the NCAA's rights to be judge and jury over its member institutions.

What do you think would've happened to an institution like UH in a situation like this? You can bet that it would've been far worse for UH.

The NCAA is a joke. But atleast one of the untouchables (Penn St) got a little bit of what should've been coming to them along time ago.
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Did you attend SMU or have some ties to the school? What happend at SMU was something that was a direct violation of the rules that the NCAA had. What happend at Penn St really has nothing to do with the football program or certainly not the football program as it stands today. Sandusky is in jail, Joe is dead and I think the other two officials should have charges being filed if they havent already. What happend at Penn St is criminal and is being delt with as such, however the NCAA changing its rules and power to level punishment in this case is purely because of public outcry. I have no dog in the fight and couldnt care less if Penn never held another football game but its clear this topic is beyond the emotional boundry to talk about the situation in a rational manner.


I totally missed your rant that the govt should get involved. The govt has no business in the matter you are speaking about.
 
2012Champs said:
Did you attend SMU or have some ties to the school? What happend at SMU was something that was a direct violation of the rules that the NCAA had. What happend at Penn St really has nothing to do with the football program or certainly not the football program as it stands today. Sandusky is in jail, Joe is dead and I think the other two officials should have charges being filed if they havent already. What happend at Penn St is criminal and is being delt with as such, however the NCAA changing its rules and power to level punishment in this case is purely because of public outcry. I have no dog in the fight and couldnt care less if Penn never held another football game but its clear this topic is beyond the emotional boundry to talk about the situation in a rational manner.


I totally missed your rant that the govt should get involved. The govt has no business in the matter you are speaking about.
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What? Programs get hit all the time for stupid stuff regarding this:


PRINCIPLES OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL
AS PREPARED BY THE NCAA COMMITTEE ON INFRACTIONS

A. "CONTROL" IS DEFINED IN COMMON-SENSE TERMS.

In determining whether there has been a lack of institutional control when a violation of NCAA
rules has been found it is necessary to ascertain what formal institutional policies and procedures
were in place at the time the violation of NCAA rules occurred and whether those policies and
procedures, if adequate, were being monitored and enforced. It is important that policies and
procedures be established so as to deter violations and not merely to discover their existence
after they have taken place. In a case where proper procedures exist and are appropriately
enforced, especially when they result in the prompt detection, investigation and reporting of the
violations in question, there may be no lack of institutional control although the individual or
individuals directly involved may be held responsible.

In a situation in which adequate institutional procedures exist, at least on paper, a practical,
common-sense approach is appropriate in determining whether they are adequately monitored
and enforced by a person in "control." Obviously, general institutional control is exercised by the
chief executive officer of a member institution. However, it is rare that the chief executive officer
will make decisions specifically affecting the operations of the institution's athletics program.
Instead, the day-to-day duties of operation, including compliance with NCAA rules, will have been
delegated to subordinates either by specific action or by the creation of appropriate job
descriptions. Moreover, it is usually left to senior subordinates, such as the director of athletics,
further to delegate various duties regarding compliance with NCAA rules.

...
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http://compliance.pac-12.org/thetools/instctl.pdf

And yes, reporting known criminal matters to the police is a policy within all universities.
 
Dutchrudder said:
What? Programs get hit all the time for stupid stuff regarding this:




http://compliance.pac-12.org/thetools/instctl.pdf

And yes, reporting known criminal matters to the police is a policy within all universities.
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Lack of instl control is widely worded but the first link is an article I read that talked about the move Mark made that were certainly not what the NCAA does. The NCAA's actions here are not precedented. I will post two paragraphs those for those whom have a hard time with the SMU/Penn comparison



http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf-...te-sanctions-joe-paterno-graham-spanier-.html


The decision came almost solely from Emmert, sources say. He used the significance of the scandal to allow the NCAA Board of Directors to provide him with powers not seen since the iron-fisted Walter Byers ran the organization from 1951-1988.

"Unprecedented," said one NCAA source. "This is just unprecedented."

[Related: Charles Robinson: Staggering penalties likely for Penn State]

Rather than allowing the tedious infractions process to churn on for years, there was no NCAA investigation, no hearings, no letter of inquiry, no reports, no chance for formal response, no nothing. Rather than wait for criminal cases and every last bit of evidence to trickle in, this was Emmert reading the school's own Freeh Commission report and deciding enough was enough







Current NCAA rules limit the penalty to colleges already on probation that commit another major violation. But NCAA leaders have indicated in recent months they are willing to use harsher penalties for the worst offenses. That includes postseason and TV bans, which haven't been used extensively since the 1980s.




""This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like (what) happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal," Emmert told PBS. "Well, it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/22/ncaa-penn-state-punishment-sandusky-abuse_n_1692814.html
 
^ yeah, I don't know where you are going with all that. Anyways, the NCAA decree on the Ped State ruling can be found here: http://a.espncdn.com/pdf/2012/0723/pennstateconclusions.pdf

...

1. A failure to value and uphold institutional integrity demonstrated by inadequate,
and in some instances non-existent, controls and oversight surrounding the
athletics program of the University, such as those controls prescribed by Articles
2.1, 6.01.1, and 6.4 of the NCAA Constitution.

2. A failure to maintain minimal standards of appropriate and responsible conduct.
The NCAA seeks to foster an environment and culture of honesty, as exemplified
by NCAA Bylaws 10.01.1 and 11.1.1, and by Bylaw 10.1 on ethical conduct.
Indeed, NCAA Bylaw I 0.1 enumerates a non-exhaustive list of examples of
inappropriate conduct. In addition, Article 2.4 of the NCAA Constitution requires
athletic programs to adhere to fundamental values of respect, faimess, civility,
honesty and responsibility.

3. A lack of adherence to fundamental notions of individual integrity. An
institution's head coach should promote an atmosphere for compliance and
monitor the activities of all assistant coaches and other administrators involved
with the program who report directly or indirectly to the coach. Further, NCAA
Bylaw 19.01.2, consistent with Article 2.4 of the NCAA Constitution, demands
the employees associated with intercollegiate athletics to serve as positive moral
models for students in order "for intercollegiate athletics to promote the character
development of participants, to enhance the integrity of higher education and to
promote civility in society."

...
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2012Champs said:
Show me what the results of the NCAA investigation were not the decree
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What are you talking about? They didn't do their own investigation, they used the Freeh investigation as their source of information for determining the punishment. Freeh was hired by Penn State to do the investigation and obviously wasn't doing the university any favors given his results, so I don't see an issue with it. That document I linked has signatures from the president of the NCAA and the president of PSU. They accepted that punishment as a semi-plea deal, because it could have been much worse.
 
Dutchrudder said:
What are you talking about? They didn't do their own investigation, they used the Freeh investigation as their source of information for determining the punishment. Freeh was hired by Penn State to do the investigation and obviously wasn't doing the university any favors given his results, so I don't see an issue with it. That document I linked has signatures from the president of the NCAA and the president of PSU. They accepted that punishment as a semi-plea deal, because it could have been much worse.
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What am I talking about? Thats exactly my point they didnt do any investigation. Tell me the last time the NCAA handed down punishment in any larger fashion without doing an investigation, without doing much work at all and having a single person decide what was going to happen? You cant because this isnt something that happend even with the SMU issues. PSU accepted the deal because any fight would be prolonged and continue the issue and thats what would have been worse not the punishment.
 
2012Champs said:
What am I talking about? Thats exactly my point they didnt do any investigation. Tell me the last time the NCAA handed down punishment in any larger fashion without doing an investigation, without doing much work at all and having a single person decide what was going to happen? You cant because this isnt something that happend even with the SMU issues. PSU accepted the deal because any fight would be prolonged and continue the issue and thats what would have been worse not the punishment.
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Is it really necessary to spend the money and resources to conduct the same investigation that is already being done by an independent firm, the FBI and other government organizations? I really don't think so in this case. It's pretty well known, and they did wait for the court to rule on the charges against Sandusky himself before instituting these penalties.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Is it really necessary to spend the money and resources to conduct the same investigation that is already being done by an independent firm, the FBI and other government organizations? I really don't think so in this case. It's pretty well known, and they did wait for the court to rule on the charges against Sandusky himself before instituting these penalties.
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Like I said the NCAA acted in a manner that it had not before. No investigation(which for them typically takes forever) and a single person deciding how the punishment should go. You said programs get hit for stupid stuff like this all the time but no they dont. There usually is a process for the NCAA and its punishment.
 
2012Champs said:
Like I said the NCAA acted in a manner that it had not before. No investigation(which for them typically takes forever) and a single person deciding how the punishment should go. You said programs get hit for stupid stuff like this all the time but no they dont. There usually is a process for the NCAA and its punishment.
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I think Dutch's and the NCCA's point is.....why commit more resources, man power, and time into another report when the Freeh is already independent of both Penn State and the NCAA? Do you think an NCAA investigation would've come up with anything substantially different?

In the case of Penn State...I think they got off better using the Freeh Report and the subsequent punishment handed out better than another full blown investigation by the NCAA. Which might have come up with even worse results now that the lid was blown off and people might be more willing to come forward with any additional knowledge. It might have also given even more time for an even larger growing public backlash. I think "plea bargain" with the Freeh Report is accurate.

I am curious as to what the Big 10 conference itself decides to do.
 
Goldensilence said:
I think Dutch's and the NCCA's point is.....why commit more resources, man power, and time into another report when the Freeh is already independent of both Penn State and the NCAA? Do you think an NCAA investigation would've come up with anything substantially different?
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I personally think it would be the same outcome however that doesnt change my opinion of the process or how it went.


Goldensilence said:
In the case of Penn State...I think they got off better using the Freeh Report and the subsequent punishment handed out better than another full blown investigation by the NCAA. Which might have come up with even worse results now that the lid was blown off and people might be more willing to come forward with any additional knowledge. It might have also given even more time for an even larger growing public backlash. I think "plea bargain" with the Freeh Report is accurate.

I am curious as to what the Big 10 conference itself decides to do.
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Im not sure I am confident in NCAA's ability to do anything with consistency so Im dont know how their investigation would go or what the outcome would be from a prolonged timeframe. I do know that PSU is probably better off accepting anything that came their way asap to start the road to putting this somewhat behind them.
 
2012Champs said:
Like I said the NCAA acted in a manner that it had not before. No investigation(which for them typically takes forever) and a single person deciding how the punishment should go.
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Ok, so do you want to argue that the football program of Penn State had nothing to do with the coverup of Jerry Sandusky's child molestation over the past 14 years? If not, then move on to something else, because you're wasting everyone's time in this thread.

You said programs get hit for stupid stuff like this all the time but no they dont. There usually is a process for the NCAA and its punishment.
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Lack of institutional control is a common sanction from the NCAA, Ohio State was the most recent one to be hit with it. Usually it's with regard to recruiting players or improper benefits being given to players. USC was hit with it for the Reggie Bush stuff. It really is quite common if you pay attention to NCAA football news. It's usually for stupid little things that add up, this instance with Penn State is much more severe and warrants the harsh punishment.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Ok, so do you want to argue that the football program of Penn State had nothing to do with the coverup of Jerry Sandusky's child molestation over the past 14 years? If not, then move on to something else, because you're wasting everyone's time in this thread.



Lack of institutional control is a common sanction from the NCAA, Ohio State was the most recent one to be hit with it. Usually it's with regard to recruiting players or improper benefits being given to players. USC was hit with it for the Reggie Bush stuff. It really is quite common if you pay attention to NCAA football news. It's usually for stupid little things that add up, this instance with Penn State is much more severe and warrants the harsh punishment.
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My stance certainly isnt that the football program didnt have anything to do with it. Two of the coaches had something to do with the cover up. What they were covering up wasnt football related. Also of note no one in the program now was responsible for this mess, all four involved are now gone.


Again getting hit with punishment isnt the point its how they came to that resolution. I pay attention to football news and thats how I can tell you the NCAA doesnt hand out punishment without investigating and deciding as an organization how it will proceed.
 
Hagar said:
Death penelty. Only acceptable punishment.
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I agree.

This wasn't about buying student/athletes cars or shaving points, this was an intentional conspiracy to protect the money inflow ... whose direct and expected result was the continued sexual assault of more little boys.

Football monies > child molestation. No program has done worse.

NCAA should have killed the program and spread temporary scholarships around to cover the student-athletes caught in the middle of this.
 
2012Champs said:
My stance certainly isnt that the football program didnt have anything to do with it. Two of the coaches had something to do with the cover up. What they were covering up wasnt football related. Also of note no one in the program now was responsible for this mess, all four involved are now gone.
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Umm, yeah it was football related. They were covering up a former coach's transgressions and enabled him to continue to rape children. Personally, I hope the sanctions go well beyond just the stupid football program. But to argue that it has nothing to do with the football program, protecting JoePa's legacy, allowing him to keep pushing for the most wins in NCAA history, and whatnot is just foolish. The football program was the heart of it. The football program made Sandusky a local celebrity and enabled him to create a charity that essentially became a child escort service for this guy. They were enablers, and they deserve to have it all burnt to the ground.

That university has built a cult-like following where their people actually think that the school and its students are the real victims in this case. I would be just fine with it losing accreditation and allowing everyone to transfer away from that cesspool of morals. Get them into some normal schools and maybe that will break the spell of insanity.

Again getting hit with punishment isnt the point its how they came to that resolution. I pay attention to football news and thats how I can tell you the NCAA doesnt hand out punishment without investigating and deciding as an organization how it will proceed.
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Well yeah, because in every other case there hasn't been a criminal investigation from the FBI and other enforcement agencies. In those cases, there weren't independent investigations being commissioned by the school, because NONE of them were anywhere near as bad as this! How is it that hard to understand? Nothing in the history of the NCAA has been this bad. Period. So when they rule in a way that is unprecedented in response to acts that are also unprecedented, don't be so surprised.
 
2012Champs said:
My stance certainly isnt that the football program didnt have anything to do with it. Two of the coaches had something to do with the cover up. What they were covering up wasnt football related.
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it was more of an individual concern...until they decided to protect the football program instead of the kids. Then it became a coverup for the football program. There was no other reason to not call in the authorities and give up control of your secret knowledge...about things going on inside the Penn St. Football shower room. Covering up the information makes it your problem.

anyway, I came here to post this link to the Sean Pendergast opinion piece from the Houston Press. Its in response to the Paterno family spewage.

Since it appears that the Paterno family is only capable of speaking in the age old language of Released Statement-ese, allow me to release my statement to them:

Shut the **** up. Seriously, shut the **** up.
Unless you have something of substance to add to the allegations against Jerry Sandusky or have a fat six figure check you wish to donate to a charity helping the victims of child sexual abuse heal, nobody gives a rat's ass what you think about the removal of your father's statue, the removal of scholarships from Penn State's program, or the removal of dog **** from your front yard.
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http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2012/07/penn_state_scandal_my_statemen.php?ref=trending
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2012/07/penn_state_scandal_my_statemen.php?ref=trending
 
Vinny said:
it was more of an individual concern...until they decided to protect the football program instead of the kids. Then it became a coverup for the football program. There was no other reason to not call in the authorities and give up control of your secret knowledge...about things going on inside the Penn St. Football shower room. Covering up the information makes it your problem.

anyway, I came here to post this link to the Sean Pendergast opinion piece from the Houston Press. Its in response to the Paterno family spewage.


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2012/07/penn_state_scandal_my_statemen.php?ref=trending
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2012/07/penn_state_scandal_my_statemen.php?ref=trending
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Well Joe's family certainly arent helping his cause or case or theirs, however you want to put it.
 
2012Champs said:
Well Joe's family certainly arent helping his cause or case or theirs, however you want to put it.
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They are behaving in a similar way that Joe behaved. They seem to think that the end justifies the means or that you can somehow excuse Joe's behavior with his good deeds. Dude did a lot of good things, but as I tell my 16yo kid...you can ruin a good reputation far faster than building a good one. It just takes a little bit of poor judgement.
 
Vinny said:
They are behaving in a similar way that Joe behaved. They seem to think that the end justifies the means or that you can somehow excuse Joe's behavior with his good deeds. Dude did a lot of good things, but as I tell my 16yo kid...you can ruin a good reputation far faster than building a good one. It just takes a little bit of poor judgement.
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very true its crazy to see the amount of support Joe has from alum and those around the school
 
I still think these Penn State sanctions are weak ass ****. I hear Herbstreit talking about Penn State is going to be a weak football team for years to come even after the 4 years. But when I look at USC, I see them still winning a PAC10 title, and next year looking to contend for a NC and a heisman QB.

Yeah, those sanctions are really hurting USC. /sarcasm
 
Blake said:
I still think these Penn State sanctions are weak ass ****. I hear Herbstreit talking about Penn State is going to be a weak football team for years to come even after the 4 years. But when I look at USC, I see them still winning a PAC10 title, and next year looking to contend for a NC and a heisman QB.

Yeah, those sanctions are really hurting USC. /sarcasm
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What were the terms of USCs punishment ?
 
Blake said:
I still think these Penn State sanctions are weak ass ****. I hear Herbstreit talking about Penn State is going to be a weak football team for years to come even after the 4 years. But when I look at USC, I see them still winning a PAC10 title, and next year looking to contend for a NC and a heisman QB.

Yeah, those sanctions are really hurting USC. /sarcasm
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USC had a 2 year bowl ban, Penn State has a 4 year bowl ban. In my mind, that is way more powerful. They won't be able to effectively recruit for at least 2 years with a 4 year post season ban. With a 2 year ban, you still are able to recruit, most players expect to be redshirted anyway their first year. With a 4 year ban, you have nothing to offer. Not to mention most current players who can, will more than likely jump ship. 2 other factors will come into play, the scholarship hit was bigger and the shame factor cannot be discounted.

I think this penalty will have much harder sting than USC had. Dead team walking.
 
Blake said:
I still think these Penn State sanctions are weak ass ****. I hear Herbstreit talking about Penn State is going to be a weak football team for years to come even after the 4 years. But when I look at USC, I see them still winning a PAC10 title, and next year looking to contend for a NC and a heisman QB.

Yeah, those sanctions are really hurting USC. /sarcasm
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Really? (Not being a smartass here) but how can you compare the two situations? Recruits (albeit less scholarships) would go to SC becuase the infractions that SC ware penalized for are far less then the stigma of a program that one that covered up pedophilia (By the one of the most powerful people in the state of Pennsylvania) in a conference where a lot of teams are on equal playing ground

Conversely, SC will continue to draw great recuits with or without bowl sanctions because they are the "cream and crop" of the PAC 37. *EDIT* Also SC plays in a conference where sometimes OSU, Stanford or anyone else once in a while stands up and makes a play... The Big 10??? Way more comp...

In a novel called, 'Oklahoma Vs Texas: When Football Becomes War' by Robert Heard there are way more egregious NCAA infractions than USC or even many years later SMU..

At PSU, I think their penalty is far harsher (as it should be) than SMU's "Death Penalty". Why?? Again, that program will have such a long lasting negative stigma that they will lose a lot, let me say this again, A LOT of PA kids that wanted to play there.

I also think it's a harsher penalty in the sense that while they continue to play football (and remain in the minds of college football fans) that their legacy will falter and their indiscrentions will be recognized..

SMU on the other hand has their program under control and even built a beautiful Gerald Ford Stadium... (no dumbasses, not that Gerald Ford)
 
Texan_Bill said:
Really? (Not being a smartass here) but how can you compare the two situations? Recruits (albeit less scholarships) would go to SC becuase the infractions that SC ware penalized for are far less then the stigma of a program that one that covered up pedophilia (By the one of the most powerful people in the state of Pennsylvania) in a conference where a lot of teams are on equal playing ground

Conversely, SC will continue to draw great recuits with or without bowl sanctions because they are the "cream and crop" of the PAC 37. *EDIT* Also SC plays in a conference where sometimes OSU, Stanford or anyone else once in a while stands up and makes a play... The Big 10??? Way more comp...

In a novel called, 'Oklahoma Vs Texas: When Football Becomes War' by Robert Heard there are way more egregious NCAA infractions than USC or even many years later SMU..

At PSU, I think their penalty is far harsher (as it should be) than SMU's "Death Penalty". Why?? Again, that program will have such a long lasting negative stigma that they will lose a lot, let me say this again, A LOT of PA kids that wanted to play there.

I also think it's a harsher penalty in the sense that while they continue to play football (and remain in the minds of college football fans) that their legacy will falter and their indiscrentions will be recognized..

SMU on the other hand has their program under control and even built a beautiful Gerald Ford Stadium... (no dumbasses, not that Gerald Ford)
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Really,

Little boys getting a** raped and Penn St isn't even kicked off TV for a yr.

Meanwhile all SMU did was pay a few players and their program was shut down and all of their players transfered immediately. They had to rebuild their program from scrath.

Penn St players can but probably wont transfer. So they wont have to start from scratch. I will bet you that in 5-7 yrs Penn St will be a top tier big 11 team. Meanwhile SMU still hasn't recovered 25 yrs later.
 
steelbtexan said:
Really,

Little boys getting a** raped and Penn St isn't even kicked off TV for a yr.

Meanwhile all SMU did was pay a few players and their program was shut down and all of their players transfered immediately. They had to rebuild their program from scrath.

Penn St players can but probably wont transfer. So they wont have to start from scratch. I will bet you that in 5-7 yrs Penn St will be a top tier big 11 team. Meanwhile SMU still hasn't recovered 25 yrs later.
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I want them on TV, I get the Big 10 network and I will enjoy seeing them lose 77-12 each week. It will be quite amusing, as will the announcers who may have to be careful of what they say about the school and its sanctions.
 
In reply to all... yes, Penn State will be bad, ...for 2 years. In 2 years once PSU recruits realize as USC recruits did that they can sign on with PSU, redshirt a year and position themselves to be starters when the bowl ban is over they will go right back to Linebacker U and all the amenities and perks that a school like PSU are powerful enough to offer these kids.

PSU president just said that they were faced with either their current sanctions, or a 4 year death penalty. I think they deserved the latter.
 
steelbtexan said:
Really,

Little boys getting a** raped and Penn St isn't even kicked off TV for a yr.

Meanwhile all SMU did was pay a few players and their program was shut down and all of their players transfered immediately. They had to rebuild their program from scrath.

Penn St players can but probably wont transfer. So they wont have to start from scratch. I will bet you that in 5-7 yrs Penn St will be a top tier big 11 team. Meanwhile SMU still hasn't recovered 25 yrs later.
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Im not sure I would say all SMU did was pay a few players. That certainly doesnt acknowledge what was going on at SMU for a long time.
 
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