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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 1 Unfolds

Yes but wasn't that all a part his creepy agent Poston? Now that he fired Potson I think he's looking for something a little more solid in a contract, not a huge super pay day like they were asking. He's grown tired of the Rams and has pretty much worn out his welcome. Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.
 
I think Carr will sleep alot more soundly knowing that his backside is protected. The price is steep but hey thats the tuffest position in football.. We need someone to go against the dwight freeney's of the world. Their is no clear cut 1st rounder this year. I say bring him in. Here is what i have been hear

1st this year
Sharper which i doubt that signed to LB's already
1st next year
2nd next year
 
SESupergenius said:
Yes but wasn't that all a part his creepy agent Poston? Now that he fired Potson I think he's looking for something a little more solid in a contract, not a huge super pay day like they were asking. He's grown tired of the Rams and has pretty much worn out his welcome. Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.
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The Rams would have been money ahead to let him write in his own numbers two years ago - the first time we franchised him. Now, with the huge deals Walter Jones and others have gotten, his price tag has gone up - CONSIDERABLY. He will be a serious Cap Eater. If you believe your Left OT should be the top earner on your team, then he is your man.

As far as the Rams being on the downside, I humbly disagree (naturally).
 
I apologize if this has already been posted, but this looks fresh.

By CARLTON THOMPSON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

The Texans made their boldest gesture of the offseason today, entertaining Pro Bowl left tackle Orlando Pace as part of their efforts to work out a trade to acquire him from the St. Louis Rams.

In addition, Jay Foreman was granted his release - not to mention his wish - during a meeting with Texans coach Dom Capers early Monday morning. Strong safety Eric Brown also was cut during the course of a busy day at Reliant Park.

``We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said. ``Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time.``

Pace, 29, is designated as the Rams' franchise player for the third consecutive year, but the two sides have been unable to work out a long-term agreement, which opened the possibility for a trade.

If the Rams can't strike a long-term agreement with Pace by Wednesday, they lose the right to place the franchise tag on a player next season. At the very least, the Texans will have to part with a first-round pick and probably a player currently on their roster to acquire Pace.

The Texans have been trying to solidify the left tackle position since their inception. They acquired five-time Pro Bowler Tony Boselli in the expansion draft, but he couldn't recover from multiple shoulder operations and never played a down for the team before retiring before the 2003 season.

Chester Pitts started every game at left tackle in 2002 and 2003, but was moved to left guard last season to make room in the starting lineup at left tackle for Seth Wand, a raw talent with some upside. The Texans allowed 49 sacks last season, fewer than just six teams in the league.

Foreman and fellow inside linebacker Jamie Sharper asked to be released last week, approximately a week after the team gave both players permission to seek a trade. Sharper still is in limbo and could remain that way until after next month's draft, but Foreman is free to negotiate with any team in the league.

``I respect the fact they didn't string me along,'' Foreman said. ``Whether this works out for them or for me, only time will tell. I know what I can do on the field. I know the return on their investment is way better than the return they've gotten on some of their other investments.`` The Texans signed Foreman to a five-year, $12 million contract after the 2002 season. Foreman will count $1.32 million against the 2005 salary cap, but considering he was scheduled for a $2.21 million cap hit, Monday's move will save the Texans $890,000.

``When you know how good a player you are, and your teammates know how good a player you are, and then all of sudden it doesn't mean anything, that hurts,'' Foreman said. ``But it's a business, and sometimes this is how things go in the NFL. I'm not going to let it get to me. I know I'm a good player, so it should all work out.``

Foreman finished first or second in tackles each of his three seasons with the Texans, who acquired him from Buffalo in exchange for return specialist Charlie Rogers in 2002. Despite missing the final five games of last season because of an ankle injury, Foreman trailed only Sharper in tackles.

``I'm on the downside of my rehab now,'' Foreman said. ``I'm generally a quick healer. I'm going to start running next week. Now that (the release) is official, we'll see which teams are really interested. I just want to get into the right situation. My career is not over.``
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Besides, it looks like the Rams are on the downside, while the Texans are on the up.
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Not to be a punk, and not that I totally disagree BUT we did make the playoffs last year (I know, at 8-8 not much to brag about).

If our D gets fixed we think we'll be right back in the thick of it come December next year.

I do think with the right moves this off season you will be in the playoffs. Manning and the Colts better get it done soon 'cause I see the Texans breathing down their neck soon, if not next season.
 
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......
 
royce1054 said:
I think Carr will sleep alot more soundly knowing that his backside is protected. The price is steep but hey thats the tuffest position in football.. We need someone to go against the dwight freeney's of the world. Their is no clear cut 1st rounder this year. I say bring him in. Here is what i have been hear

1st this year
Sharper which i doubt that signed to LB's already
1st next year
2nd next year
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That would be a miserably bad job of negotiating by the Texans since they can pay two 1sts and get Pace without the Rams' consent.
 
Here is the interesting part of that article:

"We are in discussions with the Rams,'' Texans vice president of communications Tony Wyllie said to the Houston Chronicle. "Orlando and his agent are visiting Houston, but we won't have an announcement until the appropriate time."
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Makes me wonder if this is already a done deal....pending a physical.
 
You have to look at the total impact his signing would have on the salary cap.

Lets say he costs us $10 million a year and we trade our 1st round selection and whatever else we trade. You have to discount the amount that #13 selection would count against the cap as well as the amount of whatever else we trade.

I couldn't find contract info on Lee Evans (WR for the Bills who went #13 last year) but Jonathan Vilma signed a 5-year $10 million deal. So we need to deduct about $2 million from the impact it has on the cap. That leaves the net cap hit at roughly $8 million a year (assuming it is about $10 million a year average).

Would you pay $8 million a year for a perenial Pro Bowl tackle? Keep in mind we paid a non-Pro Bowl LB (Sharper) about $6 million a year to play for us the past two years.
 
Pace did not have his best year in 2004. Has his play declined? I'm not sure, but he got punked by Atlanta's RDE twice last year, FWIW.
 
Walter Jones signed a 7 year $50 mil contract so average hit of a little more than $7 mil per year. Pace's contract should be in the same ball park.
 
I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.
 
LOT is the most critical position on the OL. I would give up #13 and a couple of players (listed below) - if we can work out a good contract. But, I think we are better off trying to hold onto our draf tpicks and giving up some players that would have more value to the Rams than they have had for us.

Our defense has a few nice players (by "nice" - I mean talented players - but, we signed them as free agents, so they are not cheap - and could be replaced) (RSmith, Wong, Payne, Walker) and one that is not wanted (Sharper - who I still like). (Payne and Sharper have brought a lot of interest on their fan boards)

For whatever reason - the chemistry is not right with these guys. If it was, then our defense would have produced much better. So, shake it up. Giving up a few of these guys will not hurt (we can draft and/or sign replacements - we are planning on doing that with them already here anyway).

Anyway, my point is, I would rather give up players out of this talented, but overpaid and underproducing group, than draft picks - if we have a choice.

Maybe; Sharper, Payne, and a #2
Or, Sharper, Walker and Wong
Basically any combo of our DL/LBs is not that harmful to the team (excluding Babin) - because we can draft or sign players at close to the same cost to replace them - and even if they are less talented, they may fit the system better meaning better results.

I would even go so far as: Sharper, Walker, Payne, RSmith, Wand for Pace and their #1.
 
Jagged said:
I agree this might already be a done deal. The thing that makes me think they are pending a physical is Charlie Cass. Isn't even in town while he is visiting, if they were trying to get a deal done for a trade, don't you think the man who pulls the trades would be there? Just curious.

Anyway, My guess is Sharper, and our First this year "should" get the deal done. The offense starts with the O-Line, if they have a great day, "WE" have a great day. Signing him would be our Boselli "craving" that we never got to fix. Pull the trigger on this guy, sign him long term and watch our offensive production pick-up.
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CC has a cell phone and I'm sure it works in Hawaii. Mine did when I was over there. RT2
 
ccdude730 said:
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......
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I agree.. If this gets done, I'm just hopeful that your assessment and mine are both wrong.
 
Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?
 
Texans Pride said:
3. Is a me player, not a team player
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Honest question, can someone please explain to me how a Left Tackle cannot be a team player??? It's not like he can demand the ball or more playing time.
 
Why is Pace a big selfish baby?
Because he wanted to get paid what he was worth and get a long term contract?????????
Anyone out there not trying to get paid what they are worth is crazy - especially when the team can trade the player to some frozen wasteland (Cleveland comes to mind).

Sounds to me like he has a little sense. If the team had taken care of him, then he would never have been called selfish or had to take the steps he did.
If Casserly is able to work out a contract, it means one of two things; either STL lowballed or Pace has come down to a reasonable number (I have too much faith in Casserly to believe he will overpay). Either way, the "selfish" tag should not carry over to Houston.
 
Texans Pride said:
Ok, I am hearing a few things about Pace the are raising my eyebrows:

1. Big baby, cries ALOT
2. Tries to get out of training camp
3. Is a me player, not a team player

These are some pretty troubling things to hear. . . Anyone else hear these things and think they have merit, or are these just the grunts of Rams fans that have had enough?
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I also hear that he's keeping the Dunkin' Donuts chain alive in St. Louis.
 
ccdude730 said:
i guess im the minority here that wants to give wand another year before we start throwing cash and high draft picks away for a franchise LT. i still believe the weakness of the line was the middle (stevie boy anyone?).

pace is obviously an upgrade, but if he were a free agent - this would be a different story. im not ready to trade players and day 1 picks for him.

go on, lemme hear it......
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You may indeed be in the minority, but you are not alone. I feel the same way you do. If they weren't serious about developing Wand for left tackle, then why didn't just leave Pitts there.

I'm not going to like the terms of his contract, and I'm not going to like who we are going to have to give up.

Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . . :thumbup
 
We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.
 
Marcus said:
Now. . . if they made McKinney part of the trade, and move Pace to center . . . :thumbup
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I do believe you might be on to something here. I second the motion. Or we could teach Pitts to hike the ball and move Wand to LG. :party:
 
Just reading about his abilities from Football Scouts Inc. and it says he not only is rated as the 9th best player in the NFL (score of 96 out of 100), but the 2nd best OT in the league!

Just imagine if we lost a couple of players on defense, but the offense got going and scored more points than the defense gives up, doesn't that mean a win?

Give Carr this and see what happens, I think we would like the results, give em' the house for the #9 best player in the League!

By the way, Shaper is rated the best on our team and he is rated a 75 out of 100. :hmmm:
 
Talon_stl said:
We in St. Louis are so sick of Pace and his sheninigans you can have him. We will definatly want your first round pick and possibly third plus another Olineman. But I don't think Sharper would be involved. We just signed Chris Claiborne to play the middle. Personally I think Sharper hasn't played as good since he was next to Ray Lewis anyway. Sure he lead the league in tackles a few seasons ago but who else on your team was tackling? Pace isn't the player he used to be. Most likely because his lazy *** skips camp every season and it takes him 2-3 games to get back into regular playing style. Our line last year was just patched up but he looked just as bad as the other linemen. He looked like a rookie most of the year and I have no clue how he made the Pro Bowl. Name recoginition is my guess. So take Pace, maybe he will make your line better but beware he has been looking his age.
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As has been asked earlier in this thread: What shenanigans can you point out that didn't involve bitter contract negotiations between Pace/Postons and the Rams? Skipping camp when you are franchised is not a big deal. In fact, it is a smart way of dealing with the possibility of injury and the only leverage a franchised player has. Heck, if the Rams just would've gotten off the money in the first place, they could have had Pace for less than what they ahve paid him the last 3 seasons and still have him for a couple more seasons.

Now, I am concerned that at 30, without the benefit of training camp for the last 3 seasons, Pace may be losing some edge. I know the current draft lacks blue chippers and all, but I'd hate to give up that 13. Then again, Pace makes Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Davis and Hollings better. On top of that, if he improves our run game, he helps the D big time.
 
I think Pace turns 30 in November.

OL play a lot longer than most.

So, we shuld get a good 6 years out of him. Then maybe another three decent years (which would still be better than most OTs out there):

Roaf is 35 and still a pro bowler - I think Pace will hold up even better than Roaf.

Since we won't give him a contract much longer than 5 years, it won't matter how old he is.
My prediction - Pace will still be playing when DDavis is done.
 
Man i hope we get this guy, but i have to admit, I DON'T WANT TO LET GO OF SHARPER!!!!!!.....It seems though he wants out so i wish the best for him.
 
One of my favorite players of all time, Hall of Fame OT Jackie Slater of the Rams, played LT for 20 years (1976-1995). It can happen.
 
If this deal does go down, I'm guessing we will be seeing a former Texan play against us in Reliant next year when the Rams visit Houston.
 
once again, i don't think sharper will be part of any deal. the rams have already signed 2 LB's this offseason. i believe thier goal would be to get an LT and picks.
 
jacquescas said:
the consensus here is Wand, Sharper and a 3rd rounder. so we could probaly meet half way i wouldn't be too upset.

I think Pace will come cheaper than alot expect, although expensive he wont be looking at the huge signing bonus back when he had his previous agents (the Poston brothers) now he has an Agent that is more available to make a deal. Also he made those huge contract demands back when he was 27 and 28 years old he is 30 now and his contract will reflect that.
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Now I can live with that. I'm jus not down for giving up two people AND our #1. We need our #1. Remember, offense scores points but defense gets you to the bowl.
 
Vinny said:
I'd send them Sharper, Wand and our first pick....but that may not be enough. Give Foreman a broom and perhaps he could clean up their locker rooms too. He has some sort of value. :heh:
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It would depend... what the avg age for an O-Lineman? Do they play for a long time...my initial guess would be yeh, but just checking.
 
Last Year 25 million signing bonus
Two Years Ago I think it was like 7 year 145 million contract

Your managment can get off the money and pay this.

Like I said enjoy Pace I don't care take him.
 
From what I have gathered, we can work out a deal that is right about the same as Walter Jones got in Seattle. The only real sticking point in all this is how we compensate the Rams. I think we will know by tomorrow.
 
TEXANS84 said:
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.
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No way I do this if I was the Rams. That's not a fair deal in my book.
 
TEXANS84 said:
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.
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I know that our O-Line could really use some help, but i dont like the idea of giving away our 13th pick unless we were to pick one up from someone else.
 
TEXANS84 said:
610 is saying that this year's #13, Sharper, and next year's 2nd would be fair.
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I'd rather give up one of our 3rd's this year. A 2nd next year is worth a 3rd this year. Next year's draft is deeper.
 
MojoX said:
Then again, Pace makes Carr, Johnson, Gaffney, Davis and Hollings better. On top of that, if he improves our run game, he helps the D big time.
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We still can't forget, one person doesn't make a line. Grant it, he's helps tremendously on the left side, but we still have a half-wit making the line calls. By Half-wit I mean Steve McWhinney *cough* sorry, McKinney. If we go after Pace, are we gonna have enough in cap room to get the other pieces to this puzzle?
 
I just heard on my local news that our Front Office said we are not interested in a trade and if the Texans want him it will take 2 first round picks but thats probably just a ploy to get more than he's worth.
 
I still say NO WAY to giving them our #1. They wouldn't take Sharper. They might take Wand and some picks but I would definately not give them our #1.
 
Dionysus22 said:
I still say NO WAY to giving them our #1. They wouldn't take Sharper. They might take Wand and some picks but I would definately not give them our #1.
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Shoot it will take our #1 AND more to get him. It is unreasonable to think anything else.
 
Talon_stl said:
I just heard on my local news that our Front Office said we are not interested in a trade and if the Texans want him it will take 2 first round picks but thats probably just a ploy to get more than he's worth.
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It may be worth two 1's if that was all I had to give up as the Texans GM. This year will not have any elite linemen and if we secure Pace we are probably playoff contenders and will likely have a pick in the 20's next season. Securing one of the top 2 players in the NFL at LT is likely worth it to me.
 
I am against acquiring Pace.

My concern is that he is finally going to get his big payday and then take it easy. All these years he's been franchised he has only received his salary and not one of the big signing bonuses that is the only guaranteed part of a long term contract. Once he gets that big bonus, and he has been demanding $15-20 million as a signing bonus, he can put that in the bank and just sit on his ample (that means really big) behind and keep collecting paychecks because he would be too much of a cap hit for the Texans to cut.

Or maybe he gets injured like Boselli did. He is at the same age Boselli was when he got injured, and he has nowhere near the work ethic or integrity that Boselli did in trying to come back. If Pace gets injured the Texans will be screwed much more than they ever were with Boselli because Pace will be a bigger cap hit, the Texans have less cap space now, and now is when the Texans are trying to make a playoff move so therefore dead cap space is more meaningful. There are still quite a few "fans" who get upset at the mention of Boselli's name. There is a much bigger potential downside in acquiring Orlando Pace.

Is Pace going to work hard?
Is he going to be a cancer?

If Pace decides to rededicate himself and stays healthy, the Texans will be getting a Pro Bowl caliber player and a big piece of the playoff puzzle.

However, if Pace does like a lot of players do and coasts after finally getting his big payday or gets injured, this deal can end up being a huge disaster for the Texans.

Bigger than his ego or his posterior.
 
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