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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 1 Unfolds

Casserly's original maifesto on 'How to Build an NFL team' did state to "Build through the draft"

HOWEVER another major point was "Secure the Offensive Tackle position NOW"
 
ginessey said:
Well I can only think of two reasons why I would give whatever I needed to get Pace.

1. Dwight
2. Freeney
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i think thats the most rediculous thing ive read so far. maybe freeney is just good
 
Vinny said:
As to building the team, we have signed FA's as starters in 4 of the 6 line positions (if you include the TE) and Pitts was a 2nd rounder and Wand is a 3rd rounder to round out our line. On top of that the team picked up Tony Boselli in the expansion draft but obviously that didn't work out. If it did, we would have nothing but a veteran line with a second round pick in Pitts as our LG. Our goal was a veteran line with young developing, emerging skill players. Most people just don’t slow down long enough to see that. With Pace we have what we wanted in Boselli all along. A veteran line with young developing skill players.
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im just not sure that we are getting the bang for the buck on the o-line. with pace i bet we will have one of the most expensive lines in the league. and unless they do something to improve the middle of the line i think our o-oline will be middle of the pack. even with pace.

we are starting to drop a few players creating dead money and signing free agents for more than they are worth. i think we just have to be really careful signing a high priced player like pace. we had a lot more cap room when we signed boselli.
 
In some cases the pass rush up the middle flushed Carr, and Wade or Wand got credited with giving up the sack when Carr tried to run around the end. Not much a tackle can do when he doesn't know the QB is coming past him from behind and the DE can see him.

Also the stats certainly don't tell the whole story. For instance, the best pass rusher was almost always the right end, our guards and center do more double teaming (two outside rushers, two inside vs. 5 O-lineman), and the Texan scheme rarely had the right DE double teamed. This also doesn't show the number of plays each player was in for. Yada, yada, yada.

Stats are a piece of evidence, but they don't tell the whole story.
 
Pace has been good for us during the season. But with the contracts we have in addition to his, our hands are tied in free agency. I wish this would have gone through before Sharper signed but Hartwell is a good posibility with Pace gone. This is a great deal for both clubs. You will like him. He should be much more in shape after doing the training camps as well.
 
ccdude730 said:
i think thats the most rediculous thing ive read so far. maybe freeney is just good
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Nah - if he gets past Pace 2-3 times next year, Pace will be the biggest bust in Texan history and we'll have to break the bank to get John Ogden. :woot
 
Runner said:
Nah - if he gets past Pace 2-3 times next year, Pace will be the biggest bust in Texan history and we'll have to break the bank to get John Ogden. :woot
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Freeney got past Ogden twice last yr during that sunday night game with BAL and IND.
 
St. Louis local news is reporting that the Texans and OP have an agreement in principle. None of the Rams top brass have been contacted by the Texans as of 7:24PM CST. There has been no formal offer sheet. This being because the Texans don't want to give up two picks and would like to negotiate a trade. Top officials at Rams Park are saying that they will not come off of the two first picks. Looks like a Stalemate.
 
ThaShark316 said:
Freeney got past Ogden twice last yr during that sunday night game with BAL and IND.
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Oh man - does that mean Ogden can't play either? What's this league coming to if a GREAT defensive end can beat almost all tackles 1 on 1?
 
ramsfan1 said:
St. Louis local news is reporting that the Texans and OP have an agreement in principle. None of the Rams top brass have been contacted by the Texans as of 7:24PM CST. There has been no formal offer sheet. This being because the Texans don't want to give up two picks and would like to negotiate a trade. Top officials at Rams Park are saying that they will not come off of the two first picks. Looks like a Stalemate.
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well, it looks as if Pace couldn't care less about STL anymore. He'll play there another season and bolt if nothing happens
 
texansfan88 said:
well, it looks as if Pace couldn't care less about STL anymore. He'll play there another season and bolt if nothing happens
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I've been wondering about this. Could he not be slapped with the tag again next season or is there some limit to how many times a player can be f-tagged?
 
MojoX said:
I've been wondering about this. Could he not be slapped with the tag again next season or is there some limit to how many times a player can be f-tagged?
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No!!!

A team could only use the tag for 3 years in a row on one player and if they do they lose the right to franchise a player for the following year. Thats why STL wants him traded or a long term deal.
 
MojoX said:
I've been wondering about this. Could he not be slapped with the tag again next season or is there some limit to how many times a player can be f-tagged?
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He will be slapped with the tag until the Rams get tired.
 
MojoX said:
I've been wondering about this. Could he not be slapped with the tag again next season or is there some limit to how many times a player can be f-tagged?
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There would be a 20% increase to the price they would have to pay.
 
"St. Louis local news is reporting that the Texans and OP have an agreement in principle. None of the Rams top brass have been contacted by the Texans as of 7:24PM CST. There has been no formal offer sheet. This being because the Texans don't want to give up two picks and would like to negotiate a trade. Top officials at Rams Park are saying that they will not come off of the two first picks. Looks like a Stalemate."

I'm sure that the "top brass" will change their minds if the Texans offer them more than one pick this year. I wouldn't be surprise if its like our 1st and one of our 3rds and a 3rd or 4th next year.
 
You could be correct about the change of mind. Pace is not a team player and a large contract will hurt the Texans and any other team that caves in to his demands. He has been offered two contracts by the Rams. the last one being very comparable to the Walter Jones deal. If any team can afford to pay OP substantially more the Jones is getting, it is going to be a BIG cap hit for years to come. I don't know how much cap room you guys have, but I don't think Pace is worth mortaging the future of the franchise for a dozen years. My opinion only.

Jay Zigmunt, of the Rams has adamantly said that the Rams will take no less than two first picks.
 
Runner said:
Oh man - does that mean Ogden can't play either? What's this league coming to if a GREAT defensive end can beat almost all tackles 1 on 1?
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I wasn't making it sound like Odgen can't play...I'm just making a statement...its not like Odgen now sucks. Freeney is Freeney...he's gonna do that to almost anyone.
 
Just surfing the net and ran across this. CFN rated the top 100 players of all time and they have Pace at number 29.

The Pancake: Pace was so dominating with his blocks that a term was created for the way he knocked a defensive player on his back - the Pancake Block. In his junior season, Pace was credited with 80 Pancakes. As good as he was blocking for the running game, he was equally adept at pass blocking not allowing a sack in his last two years at Ohio State. One of his greatest games was his humiliation of Illinois' Simeon Rice completely shutting down the Illini star and registering ten Pancakes that day.
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http://www.collegefootballnews.com/Top_100_Players/Top_100_Players_29_Orlando_Pace.htm
 
ramsfan1 said:
You could be correct about the change of mind. Pace is not a team player and a large contract will hurt the Texans and any other team that caves in to his demands. He has been offered two contracts by the Rams. the last one being very comparable to the Walter Jones deal. If any team can afford to pay OP substantially more the Jones is getting, it is going to be a BIG cap hit for years to come. I don't know how much cap room you guys have, but I don't think Pace is worth mortaging the future of the franchise for a dozen years. My opinion only.

Jay Zigmunt, of the Rams has adamantly said that the Rams will take no less than two first picks.
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One thing that Charlie Casserly prides himself in, is that he knows the ins and outs of the salary cap and would NEVER put this team in a postion that would restrict the Texans in the future.

Casserly is one of the guys that helped make the salary cap.
 
ginessey said:
Well I can only think of two reasons why I would give whatever I needed to get Pace.

1. Dwight
2. Freeney
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We may have to add a #3, albeit a distant 3, to that list if Reggie Hayward pans out for Jacksonville.
 
ramsfan1 said:
You could be correct about the change of mind. Pace is not a team player and a large contract will hurt the Texans and any other team that caves in to his demands. He has been offered two contracts by the Rams. the last one being very comparable to the Walter Jones deal. If any team can afford to pay OP substantially more the Jones is getting, it is going to be a BIG cap hit for years to come. I don't know how much cap room you guys have, but I don't think Pace is worth mortaging the future of the franchise for a dozen years. My opinion only.

Jay Zigmunt, of the Rams has adamantly said that the Rams will take no less than two first picks.
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Yeah, they may have offered him big contracts, but maybe he just doesn't want to be tehre at all. the dome isn't exactly an ideal place
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
That's gotta be based on their college careers because Ron Dayne is ranked 12th on the list. Pace is their #1 college OT of all time. :thumbup
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Yeah, its collegefootball.com I didn't realize Pace was the one who inspired the pancake block term.
 
ramsfan1 said:
How much cap room do the Texans have?
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According to John Clayton as of March 4th - $8.9 million dollars. But that does not include the $890,000 they saved today with the 2 cuts and then Jamie Sharper will either be cut or traded and his number right now is $6.1 million dollars and the Texans would save money there after they trade or cut him.
 
texanfan2002114 said:
No!!!

A team could only use the tag for 3 years in a row on one player and if they do they lose the right to franchise a player for the following year. Thats why STL wants him traded or a long term deal.
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He will be slapped with the tag until the Rams get tired.
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???? So which is it?

If there is a limit to the number of times a guy can be tagged, then the price for Pace should be much, much lower than 2 firsts. Afterall, Pace will walk in a season for nothing anyway. So the Rams should just take a first and third and be happy.

If there is no limit, then the Texans are crazy to cough up two firsts. I know there is concern that, after 3 seasons of beatings, Carr may be getting a little gunshy. I realize that any move for Pace should be seen as protecting the team's #1 asset in Carr. But I'd rather find another way to protect Carr instead of coughing up both capspace and future picks for the Pancake.
 
There is a limit on how many times a player can get tagged.

The Texans won't have to pay the 2 first round picks because OP didn't sign the franchise tag sheet yet. The Rams will come off the two 1st rounders
 
ThaShark316 said:
I wasn't making it sound like Odgen can't play...I'm just making a statement...its not like Odgen now sucks. Freeney is Freeney...he's gonna do that to almost anyone.
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I know - I was joking - which never comes across in a forum. It's just that half the dissatisfaction people have with Wand is that Freeney made him look bad. Not a fair way to grade a player.
 
I was waiting for the Rockets game to come on, on FoX Sports Net and the reporter said that the Texans have all but signed Orlando Pace and HE SHOULD BE IN HOUSTON BY WEDNSDAY . :woot
 
BuffSoldier said:
I was waiting for the Rockets game to come on, on FoX Sports Net and the reporter said that the Texans have all but signed Orlando Pace and HE SHOULD BE IN HOUSTON BY WEDNSDAY . :woot
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IF the texans and rams can work out compensation.
 
BuffSoldier said:
I was waiting for the Rockets game to come on, on FoX Sports Net and the reporter said that the Texans have all but signed Orlando Pace and HE SHOULD BE IN HOUSTON BY WEDNSDAY . :woot
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He is in Houston with his agent right now.
 
Wait, is Pace a FA or still with the Rams because I remember coming home from the doctor one day and listening to Jim Rome talk about him being a free agent. Anyways, I dont want to give up our first round pick.
 
compensation shouldnt be a problem. The rams have until weds to complete a deal or theyll lose the right to franchise pace next yr. The pressure is on the rams, hopefully theyll lower their asking price
 
Amazing Race said:
And Pace has been around for years. The term was coined after some of his blocks in college.
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He wasn't playing football in the 80's, and I know the term was used then because I used it.
 
i just cant see it. i always saw the texans as a hard working blue collar kinda team (excuse the obvious cliches). i can understand giving bigish contracts to young, rising players (greenwood, r.smith) and i like bringing in veterans like breuner for the minimum, but i just dont see this team as in need of a "star" - read huge cap hit - lineman. we already overpay 3 of our 5 starters on the line, so why pay big for another? since when did we become a team thats one player away from a championship?

how much do the Pats pay their line? nothing. and theyre the best team in the league. now i realise that brady has a much quicker release, but still. the guy went down what, 20 times last year? there's good line play there. solid players who know the scheme. give the line another year. by all means draft a tackle at 13 and a centre in the 2nd/3rd, but dont rush and give up picks for a selfish, albeit superb, player.

when was the last time anyone heard the words 'orlando pace' and 'team player' or 'good locker room influence' in the same sentence. those are the players i want my team to be associated with. okay, he's a superb player. but i want a great team.

could we convince mcnair (bob) to give scott pioli a similar contract to the one they're offering Pace? it wouldnt count on the salary cap, and i'll guarantee success for years.

any thoughts?
 
texanfan2002114 said:
No!!!

A team could only use the tag for 3 years in a row on one player and if they do they lose the right to franchise a player for the following year. Thats why STL wants him traded or a long term deal.
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Do you have a source for this because the NFL CBA doesn't mention any three year limit?

See
Article XX.
 
IshouldbeGM said:
compensation shouldnt be a problem. The rams have until weds to complete a deal or theyll lose the right to franchise pace next yr. The pressure is on the rams, hopefully theyll lower their asking price
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You've got it mixed up. IF the Rams sign Pace after March 15 up until July 15, they lose the right to Franchise Tag ANY Player for the length of Pace's contract.

NO, the pressure is not on the Rams. If the Texans really want Pace, they can sign him to an offer sheet. Either the Rams match it, or let him go for the Texan's 2005 and 2006 #1 Picks.
 
infantrycak said:
Do you have a source for this because the NFL CBA doesn't mention any three year limit?

See
Article XX.
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From ESPN article:

The Rams have franchised Pace for three consecutive years. Under terms of that designation, the Rams have until Wednesday to work out a long-term contract and regain the ability to franchise a player in 2006. Any long agreement reached between Wednesday and July 15 would cost St. Louis its franchise tag for the length of that contract.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2012782

Good enough for you??
 
texanfan2002114 said:
From ESPN article:

The Rams have franchised Pace for three consecutive years. Under terms of that designation, the Rams have until Wednesday to work out a long-term contract and regain the ability to franchise a player in 2006. Any long agreement reached between Wednesday and July 15 would cost St. Louis its franchise tag for the length of that contract.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2012782
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Well that doesn't say it can't be used on Pace again. What they are describing is that if a long term deal is quickly worked out--i.e. no need to use the franchise tag on him--then they can franchise someone else. If a sever year deal is completed after Wednesday the Rams will not be able to franchise anyone until the 2012 season.
 
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