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Organized fan protest underway

SheTexan said:
What part of SUPPORTING your team do you people not understand???! Daddy Bob's gonna do what Daddy Bob wants to do, and no amount of stupid bags, dumb signs, booing your head off, or throwing things on the field, which by the way will get you kicked out of the stadium, is gonna matter. I'm just not gonna stress over what the FO is gonna do come January or March! BUT, I support my football team through the bad times, and this is definitely one of the BAD times!! I want AJ, AF, OD, Mario, Demeco, and many others to know we did not let them down. If they are out there playing the friggin game then I'm gonna be in the stands yelling for them!! Geeeeezzzzz, this thread reeks of immaturity!!
Click to expand...

This is why you are awesome.

If people are that upset, just don't go.

Coaching changes or no, if you wear bags or boo or do other nonsense, you are sending a terrible message to the good players that are on your team. If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with bag headed fans? Good players can choose to go anywhere.

I've always thought that teams need their fans more when times are tough. McNair is going to do what he is going to do. In the meantime, I am going to support the players who will likely remain no matter what changes are made.
 
Texans_Chick said:
This is why you are awesome.

If people are that upset, just don't go.

Coaching changes or no, if you wear bags or boo or do other nonsense, you are sending a terrible message to the good players that are on your team. If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with bag headed fans? Good players can choose to go anywhere.

I've always thought that teams need their fans more when times are tough. McNair is going to do what he is going to do. In the meantime, I am going to support the players who will likely remain no matter what changes are made.
Click to expand...

I feel exactly the same way.

What are the bag heads going to feel when Andre looks up at them in the stands, and gives them a look of disgust/disapproval?
 
Nothing,

I could care less about what Andre Johnson thinks of my fandom. They players need to stop worrying about what the fans are doing/saying/thinking and start doing their jobs better.
 
Shaft75 said:
I feel exactly the same way.

What are the bag heads going to feel when Andre looks up at them in the stands, and gives them a look of disgust/disapproval?
Click to expand...

Aren't these same players used to telling us fans about how much a
"business" the NFL is? Following the same logic, WINNING is the currency
the fans accept. If the players aren't upholding their end of the deal,
by generating wins, they should expect the wrath they receive from the fans
to also be part of the "business."
 
Texans_Chick said:
This is why you are awesome.

If people are that upset, just don't go.

Coaching changes or no, if you wear bags or boo or do other nonsense, you are sending a terrible message to the good players that are on your team. If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with bag headed fans? Good players can choose to go anywhere.

I've always thought that teams need their fans more when times are tough. McNair is going to do what he is going to do. In the meantime, I am going to support the players who will likely remain no matter what changes are made.
Click to expand...

Rep to both you and SheTexan. This is exactly my thinking-I am in no way satisified with how this team is performing but who here is blaming it on AJ, Foster or Schaub (okay some of you are blaming him)?? Don't you think that not being in you seats or wearing bags, etc. has a negative affect on the players?? They are the one's who have to look up and see it-I'm betting it will hurt them alot more than McNair/Kubs/coaching staff.

Ya'll do what you want but me for one will be in my normal spot watching and rooting for MY team. And yes I get ALOT of crap up here in NJ for being a Texans fan but I still proudly wear my gear everywhere and suck up the pain.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nothing,

I could care less about what Andre Johnson thinks of my fandom. They players need to stop worrying about what the fans are doing/saying/thinking and start doing their jobs better.
Click to expand...

I personally believe that Andre Johnson has earned the respect I give him. Maybe you should re-evaluate your stance. The guy has constantly rode out sinking ships with us. So I really don't know where your coming from.
 
You don't have to boo everytime but on a bad play if the team is just playing badly thus not trying hard enough. What is wrong with booing?
 
DexmanC said:
Aren't these same players used to telling us fans about how much a
"business" the NFL is? Following the same logic, WINNING is the currency
the fans accept. If the players aren't upholding their end of the deal,
by generating wins, they should expect the wrath they receive from the fans
to also be part of the "business."
Click to expand...

Sounds logical, but it's application can be a little inappropriate. I don't want to chastise one of the best wr's ever, especially one that continues to ride things out with us. I'm just not that negative of a person.
 
steelbtexan said:
Nothing,

I could care less about what Andre Johnson thinks of my fandom. They players need to stop worrying about what the fans are doing/saying/thinking and start doing their jobs better.
Click to expand...

Too right. AJ would have a nerve to think anything less of fans booing the team. Time and time again this year, he has refused to play, because of a poorly ankle, and shows little to no passion for this team and its fans.

Oh wait...

I have no problem with fans riding players who don't put the effort in (unlike a low level of ability, that ball is in their court). To boo players who are just not good enough, or are busting their gut to win is just idiotic, and will lead to us watching AJ with a Superbowl ring on, aquired somewhere other than Houston.
 
mattieuk said:
Too right. AJ would have a nerve to think anything less of fans booing the team. Time and time again this year, he has refused to play, because of a poorly ankle, and shows little to no passion for this team and its fans.

Oh wait...

I have no problem with fans riding players who don't put the effort in (unlike a low level of ability, that ball is in their court). To boo players who are just not good enough, or are busting their gut to win is just idiotic, and will lead to us watching AJ with a Superbowl ring on, aquired somewhere other than Houston.
Click to expand...

That thought just ruined what had been a pretty good day...I feel like kicking a dog now...thanks alot <sniffle>.
 
Not to derail this thread (didn't want to start a new thread about this) but anyways, I know some NFL teams allow season-ticket holders a chance to be present at meetings with HC and or management and ask them questions about the franchise as the Lions did after there 0-16 season.

Do the Texans allow this or hold a season-ticket holder meeting with the HC or GM and allow them to express there concerns? I think this is a good way for the team to allow fans to voice there opinions and make them feel that what they have to say actually counts.
 
Texas T said:
That is 1000% appropriate-an immediate response to an immediate screw-up.
Click to expand...
I'll kindly disagree. AJ, Foster, Williams, ect. They might not always deserve to be booed but if the team deserves it overall then they should know the fans are going to do so. It is all part of being fan and I bet you the players would be upset if the rolls were reversed.
 
DexmanC said:
Aren't these same players used to telling us fans about how much a
"business" the NFL is? Following the same logic, WINNING is the currency
the fans accept. If the players aren't upholding their end of the deal,
by generating wins, they should expect the wrath they receive from the fans
to also be part of the "business."
Click to expand...

Exactly and it isn't like they have exactly stepped up while being coddled and praised. I'm not for booing all game but a quick protest shows displeasure until going back to your regularly scheduled program. Finally worked for the Lions. Again, without it then McNair just sees smiling faces and nothing being wrong. "Look, we are so close, the fans love it." You pay your money and get to do what you want within the legal limits on the ticket. They get paid millions and are subject to scrutiny.
 
gary said:
I'll kindly disagree. AJ, Foster, Williams, ect. They might not always deserve to be booed but if the team deserves it overall then they should know the fans are going to do so. It is all part of being fan and I bet you the players would be upset if the rolls were reversed.
Click to expand...

So you're disagreeing with me agreeing with you???
I'm confused...

Oh well, I was just agreeing that booing after a bad screw-up is GOOD! No more specifics given. There is a difference between a bad screw-up and not making the miraculus happen (like the Texans leading in the first quarter).
Booing for an entire game because you are upset with management is BAD!
 
The Texans have wheeled out mediocre-at-best football for 9 years, and they are one of the top-10 most profitable sports franchises in the world. For a business standpoint, there is no reason to change.

For every person that makes an ass out of themselves with a bag on their head, there are 100 people looking to get their ticket into the stadium.
 
Texas T said:
So you're disagreeing with me agreeing with you???
I'm confused...

Oh well, I was just agreeing that booing after a bad screw-up is GOOD! No more specifics given. There is a difference between a bad screw-up and not making the miraculus happen (like the Texans leading in the first quarter).
Booing for an entire game because you are upset with management is BAD!
Click to expand...
OOOPS. Sorry, wrong qouote sir.
 
Texans_Chick said:
This is why you are awesome.

If people are that upset, just don't go.

Coaching changes or no, if you wear bags or boo or do other nonsense, you are sending a terrible message to the good players that are on your team. If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with bag headed fans? Good players can choose to go anywhere.

I've always thought that teams need their fans more when times are tough. McNair is going to do what he is going to do. In the meantime, I am going to support the players who will likely remain no matter what changes are made.
Click to expand...

If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with a 35-42 head coach who can't get a team to the playoffs? Do you want to be associated with perpetual mediocrity and an owner that thinks 5-9 is "on the right track"?

If these players really cared about the desires of fans, they would have showed some sack when the Dallas freakin' Cowboys rolled into town and kicked their asses all over Reliant Stadium. Instead, all we got was a bunch of mealy-mouthed pansy talk about how they aren't from Houston so this isn't a rivalry to them. Yeah, all that bullshit about civic pride and representing Houston rings hallow when a crappy Cowboys team visits and puts their collective cowboys boots up Toro's backside. That was an embarrassing day to be a Texans fan, but all we got from the overpaid eggheads was a shrug and 'just another game' mantra. I have much love and respect for SheTexan, but she clearly has a short memory about the pathetic state of this team back in September. In hindsight, that game was a sign of things to come.

These players get paid millions to play a game. If they need fans to pump them up for motivation, then they need to find another line of work. I can't coddle this pathetic crap. With the exception of a handful of players, the rest of them should live in shame for the travesty that is the 2010 season.
 
Pretty soon these same players who are great are going to get mad but not at us but at the team for allowing this crap. And letting their careers just go by the waste side.
 
gary said:
Pretty soon these same players who are great are going to get mad but not at us but at the team for allowing this crap. And letting their careers just go by the waste side.
Click to expand...

Looks like Dunta Robinson wasn't crazy, after all. Dude went through
a near career-ender, and decided to play on a team that's
going somewhere.
 
For some reason, this whole issue reminds me of this story from last season.

Browns owner Randy Lerner obsessively avoids having his voice or image recorded by the media.

On Tuesday, however, he blazed new ground by taking a meeting with two unhappy fans.

Lerner met with men who have called for fans to not take their seats at the November 16 Monday nighter until after the kickoff.

(In an unrelated note, ESPN is no longer cursing the fact that this game has landed on their 2009 schedule.)

Mike Randall of Massillon and Tony Schaefer of Sandusky spent two hours with Lerner, and they were impressed.

“He wants to get this right,” Randall said, per Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository. “He was very open in saying
mistakes have been made. He basically said, ‘I take full blame.’

“Randy strikes me as very passionate about owning the team and getting this right,” Randall said.

And they got some insight regarding whether Lerner will keep coach Eric Mangini beyond the 2009 season.

“I believe, from what I heard that if it doesn’t work out this year,
Randy will make a move,” Randall said. “He’s not going to sit there and
take this garbage any more. He is [ticked] off. He is disgusted.”

Lerner’s peers might be feeling a little queasy, too. Now that Lerner has seen fit to sit down with two of the customers, others whose teams fall on hard times might be pressed to do the same.
Click to expand...

More important than the fan meeting, Lerner went on to hire Holmgren at GM.
 
Double Barrel said:
If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with a 35-42 head coach who can't get a team to the playoffs? Do you want to be associated with perpetual mediocrity and an owner that thinks 5-9 is "on the right track"?

If these players really cared about the desires of fans, they would have showed some sack when the Dallas freakin' Cowboys rolled into town and kicked their asses all over Reliant Stadium. Instead, all we got was a bunch of mealy-mouthed pansy talk about how they aren't from Houston so this isn't a rivalry to them. Yeah, all that bullshit about civic pride and representing Houston rings hallow when a crappy Cowboys team visits and puts their collective cowboys boots up Toro's backside. That was an embarrassing day to be a Texans fan, but all we got from the overpaid eggheads was a shrug and 'just another game' mantra. I have much love and respect for SheTexan, but she clearly has a short memory about the pathetic state of this team back in September. In hindsight, that game was a sign of things to come.

These players get paid millions to play a game. If they need fans to pump them up for motivation, then they need to find another line of work. I can't coddle this pathetic crap. With the exception of a handful of players, the rest of them should live in shame for the travesty that is the 2010 season.
Click to expand...

Must spread...yada, yada, yada
 
Texas T said:
So you're disagreeing with me agreeing with you???
I'm confused...

Oh well, I was just agreeing that booing after a bad screw-up is GOOD! No more specifics given. There is a difference between a bad screw-up and not making the miraculus happen (like the Texans leading in the first quarter).
Booing for an entire game because you are upset with management is BAD!
Click to expand...

Why is booing bad?

It's not like it will make a difference in W/L.

I'm just saying fans pay hard earned $$$$ and have the right to boo/wear bags/make signs etc.... and if the players dont like it tuff. Their getting paid millions and are big boys. They can get a few W's and the booing will stop.
 
Double Barrel said:
If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with a 35-42 head coach who can't get a team to the playoffs? Do you want to be associated with perpetual mediocrity and an owner that thinks 5-9 is "on the right track"?

If these players really cared about the desires of fans, they would have showed some sack when the Dallas freakin' Cowboys rolled into town and kicked their asses all over Reliant Stadium. Instead, all we got was a bunch of mealy-mouthed pansy talk about how they aren't from Houston so this isn't a rivalry to them. Yeah, all that bullshit about civic pride and representing Houston rings hallow when a crappy Cowboys team visits and puts their collective cowboys boots up Toro's backside. That was an embarrassing day to be a Texans fan, but all we got from the overpaid eggheads was a shrug and 'just another game' mantra. I have much love and respect for SheTexan, but she clearly has a short memory about the pathetic state of this team back in September. In hindsight, that game was a sign of things to come.

These players get paid millions to play a game. If they need fans to pump them up for motivation, then they need to find another line of work. I can't coddle this pathetic crap. With the exception of a handful of players, the rest of them should live in shame for the travesty that is the 2010 season.
Click to expand...

Great post, must spread rep.

The coddling of players is one of the main reasons that the Texans are where they are as a franchise. Losers
 
HoustonFrog said:
And they are still looking at firing Mangini.........
Click to expand...

As of right now, the Browns have the same record as the Texans and Mangini will be lucky to get a 3rd year. Not to mention, Holmgren has an itchy trigger finger.

Seems like they're at least on the way up now. If the HC is ineffective, then he won't be ineffective for long.
 
Mr. White said:
As of right now, the Browns have the same record as the Texans and Mangini will be lucky to get a 3rd year. Not to mention, Holmgren has an itchy trigger finger.

Seems like they're at least on the way up now. If the HC is ineffective, then he won't be ineffective for long.
Click to expand...

It's like in Miami. Sparano went to the playoffs his first year and then had a decent year. Now they are down and the owner is talking like he wants him gone. People see the writing on the wall way before this organization does.
 
gary said:
The players earn millions don't tell me that I should coddle to them which is absured.
Click to expand...

Don't coddle them, but don't belittle their efforts.

Wearing a paper bag on your head shows no respect to the efforts that players have put in this season - it is symbolising your embarassment of being associated to them.

It doesn't matter that the players earn millions, that is completely beside the point. You know their wages when you buy the tickets, and the fact they are well paid does not mean the fans are correct in laying into them on a gameday, when a good majority of the players don't deserve that. If a poor player is stuck on a team, what do you want him to do? Would you rather Matt Turk retire half way through the season and give up his job, because he hasn't been a great punter this year? Would you rather Kareem hit himself in the foot with a hammer to get put on IR, to force the team to play someone else?

As I said before, what is making AJ stay here? It sure as heck ain't the prospect of being a serious contender - perhaps he is one embarassment away from wanting to go to a more 'winning' franchise.

The majority of failure this season falls on the coaching and the front office IMO - and running the players through the mud doesn't achieve the objective of attacking the previous two.
 
The players efforts have been poor this season and dont deserve respect. The a.Smith/Cushing thing is a great example.

If Johnson wants to walk trade him and get high picks that will help build the team into a winner. He's not helping the team become a winner as of now anyway. Despite all of his talents. He will be to old to contribute be the time this team becomes a winner.

And they can spend the $$$$ on getting a proven winner in to run this organization.
 
mattieuk said:
Don't coddle them, but don't belittle their efforts.

Wearing a paper bag on your head shows no respect to the efforts that players have put in this season - it is symbolising your embarassment of being associated to them.

It doesn't matter that the players earn millions, that is completely beside the point. You know their wages when you buy the tickets, and the fact they are well paid does not mean the fans are correct in laying into them on a gameday, when a good majority of the players don't deserve that. If a poor player is stuck on a team, what do you want him to do? Would you rather Matt Turk retire half way through the season and give up his job, because he hasn't been a great punter this year? Would you rather Kareem hit himself in the foot with a hammer to get put on IR, to force the team to play someone else?

As I said before, what is making AJ stay here? It sure as heck ain't the prospect of being a serious contender - perhaps he is one embarassment away from wanting to go to a more 'winning' franchise.

The majority of failure this season falls on the coaching and the front office IMO - and running the players through the mud doesn't achieve the objective of attacking the previous two.
Click to expand...
The bags might not be the best thing. Let me ask you this. Would you rather call for a change in some form or just not go to games and then not have football at all again?
 
steelbtexan said:
The players efforts have been poor this season and dont deserve respect. The a.Smith/Cushing thing is a great example.

If Johnson wants to walk trade him and get high picks that will help build the team into a winner. He's not helping the team become a winner as of now anyway. Despite all of his talents. He will be to old to contribute be the time this team becomes a winner.

And they can spend the $$$$ on getting a proven winner in to run this organization.
Click to expand...

unequivocably the worst idea ever & you pick 1 exchange out of tons throughout the year to say that their effort has been poor all season?
 
gary said:
The bags might not be the best thing. Let me ask you this. Would you rather call for a change in some form or just not go to games and then not have football at all again?
Click to expand...

I don't think that not turning up is a particually smart idea. I know if I was lucky enough to have tickets, I'd be there, supporting the performance put on.

A vocal protest outside the ground before and after the game makes sense to me. Just leave the game alone. We aren't the 0-16 Lions, by a long shot, and the rest of the NFL will be laughing at Houston if fans are paperbaging their heads, and constantly booing during the game at the complete overreaction from the fans (it will give the anti-Manning crowd in Indy from a few weeks back some competition).

Protest the coaching staff/GM/owner all you want, but don't forget that the fans are there to support the team during the game, thats all.

The players efforts have been poor this season and dont deserve respect. The a.Smith/Cushing thing is a great example.

If Johnson wants to walk trade him and get high picks that will help build the team into a winner. He's not helping the team become a winner as of now anyway. Despite all of his talents. He will be to old to contribute be the time this team becomes a winner.

And they can spend the $$$$ on getting a proven winner in to run this organization.
Click to expand...

Lets trade a proven NFl star for a load of high picks, that will cost a fortune to sign, and may not turn out to be worldbeaters.

AJ > Okoye, Kareem, Brown and Cushing

Whilst we're at it lets get rid of AF, Schaub and Mario, as they've got trade value!

AJ is helping us to win. Without him, I think we are looking at having won about 2/3 less games, and lost a few of the ones we won. Sheesh.

:wadepalm:
 
I was'nt going to further comment in this thread since I read that some of the things that were commented on earlier in the thread have seemed to have upset some of my good friends in the Blue crew, and thats the last thing I wanted to do.

After marinating in my thoughts this is what I have to say:

* First off I agree that some of the Ideas for the protest were a little adolescent, and this matter can be, and should be handled in a mature way.

* I do feel that it's the fan's prerogrative to take action and show displeasure with the team if the team is under performing or to simply remain silent.

* I also feel that if a fan decides to display his dissapproval with the team it does not disqualify that person from being a real fan or a hardcore fan. It just means some fans want to send a message that mediocrity is not welcome in Houston.

* If a business man like Mr. Mcnair serves a bad product and everyone is satisfied why change the product. (why fix it if it ain't broke) Well it is broke and the product does need to be changed, and Bob needs a strong respectful message that will get his gears in motion.

* I feel bad for all the All-star players that give it there all and we all know who they are, and I'm sure they understand that the displeasure is not with them, but with other areas of the team.

* I have much respect and commend the fans that have been here since 2002, you guys have been through alot with this team and you guys deserve the playoffs and more.

* I was a fairweather fan from 2002 thru 2004, I moved to Houston in 2005 and became a full time fan, and in 2008 I started coming to the games and I now consider myself a Hardcore fan. It was'nt until I was a hardcore fan that the emotions with this team really started kicking in. Emotion is what makes me want to send a message to Mr. Mcnair sometimes, but it does not mean I want to change allegiance or quit being a fan, because no matter what happens the Texans and I are stuck together until the day I die!

:fans::fans::fans:

P.S Bare with me on my thought, I'm at work and did not proof read!
 
mattieuk said:
I don't think that not turning up is a particually smart idea. I know if I was lucky enough to have tickets, I'd be there, supporting the performance put on.

A vocal protest outside the ground before and after the game makes sense to me. Just leave the game alone. We aren't the 0-16 Lions, by a long shot, and the rest of the NFL will be laughing at Houston if fans are paperbaging their heads, and constantly booing during the game at the complete overreaction from the fans (it will give the anti-Manning crowd in Indy from a few weeks back some competition).

Protest the coaching staff/GM/owner all you want, but don't forget that the fans are there to support the team during the game, thats all.



Lets trade a proven NFl star for a load of high picks, that will cost a fortune to sign, and may not turn out to be worldbeaters.

AJ > Okoye, Kareem, Brown and Cushing

Whilst we're at it lets get rid of AF, Schaub and Mario, as they've got trade value!

AJ is helping us to win. Without him, I think we are looking at having won about 2/3 less games, and lost a few of the ones we won. Sheesh.

:wadepalm:
Click to expand...
How about before and after the game? Call in, e-mail, blog, newspappers, a freaking yard sign ect. All of that may be of outside the sadium. You know?
 
gary said:
How about before and after the game? Call in, e-mail, blog, newspappers, a freaking yard sign ect. All of that may be of outside the sadium. You know?
Click to expand...

Like I said in one of these threads somewhere the other day... I will be looking for secondhoneymoon and his brother before going into the stadium. That to me is the best way to express displeasure ALTHOUGH once inside, I'm turning into a rabid and passionate Houston Texans fan.

This other protest crap is ridiculous.

Beat the Jaguars.
 
NitroHonda said:
Like I said in one of these threads somewhere the other day... I will be looking for secondhoneymoon and his brother before going into the stadium. That to me is the best way to express displeasure ALTHOUGH once inside, I'm turning into a rabid and passionate Houston Texans fan.

This other protest crap is ridiculous.

Beat the Jaguars.
Click to expand...
Agree, with you about winning out and there are different ways to protest which I do not have any control over so be it.
 
I'm in the boat that's going to support and cheer for my team regardless of how bad what I see on the field sucks. That said, if the first half starts out as we can all safely assume it will, I think boos and chants are in order. There's no logic in cheering failure. It's the equivalent of giving all the kids a trophy.
 
Texans_Chick said:
This is why you are awesome.

If people are that upset, just don't go.

Coaching changes or no, if you wear bags or boo or do other nonsense, you are sending a terrible message to the good players that are on your team. If you are a good player, do you want to be associated with bag headed fans? Good players can choose to go anywhere.

I've always thought that teams need their fans more when times are tough. McNair is going to do what he is going to do. In the meantime, I am going to support the players who will likely remain no matter what changes are made.
Click to expand...
So, the players would automatically assume we were "angry" and / or "ashamed of them? I don't think the players are that dense. I think Andre (specifically) wants a chance to go to the playoffs and would be more than happy to sacrifice his individual numbers (via a coaching change) if that's what it takes to accomplish this.

DexmanC said:
Aren't these same players used to telling us fans about how much a "business" the NFL is? Following the same logic, WINNING is the currency the fans accept. If the players aren't upholding their end of the deal, by generating wins, they should expect the wrath they receive from the fans to also be part of the "business."
Click to expand...
Yep! That's why I haven't been surprised to hear from players that they weren't "hurt" when the fans booed a poor performance. I seem to remember a quote along the lines of "If I'd been in the stands, I'd boo us too!"
 
THere are like 17 other teams that have losing records

I dont know Guyzz Thoes fans show up CLE SEA DET DAL

Im really no different im not mad enough to not go to the game something i spend my hard earned money on I bought the tickets and im dang sure going to go there tailgate and enjoy myself
 
Who the f cares what other fans are doing to calm their frustration with the team...

Do what you are going to do and move on.
 
im just saying compare thoes fans to us i dont know what there msg Boards are like but im sure its a little different then Ours less Doom and gloom Prob

i dont know IM so scared of losing our team like the oilers that its going to take alot for me to get really mad like 14 years and no playoffs thats deff in the back of my mind

Lets talk more about our 2nd stringers and team and the offseason i enjoy taking about da players
 
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