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Open Letter to all texans players...

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Most would admit, picking the groceries this season.
Most? I’m not so sure about that.

The players we got may be needed and turn out OK, but the price paid will come back to haunt.

The salary cap is going to get eaten into with players needing to be paid soon, Tunsil, Watson, and Hopkins at some point. So if you’re thinking free agency will fix things, think again.

Limited top of the draft picks the next 2 years. Ain’t getting much done there.

And here this team has secondary issues, pass rush issues, WR issues. How is all of that going to get addressed with the handcuffs they’ve put on themselves. You don’t even have the luxury to upgrade at positions you think are OK.

No, just because he gets the groceries at Whole Foods and pays exorbitantly extra, doesn’t mean he’s handling the groceries well.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Guess how many balls he caught in Indy that yr?
Luck got injured in game 3 and was never quite right the next 4 games; the Colts finally shut him down.
AJ himself was limited in games 3 and 4 (he was listed as Probable on the injury report, and did play, but saw few targets. You can verify all of this on Profootball reference.
The Colts were 3-4 and weren't going anywhere fast with old man Hasselbeck.
They fired their OC after game 8.

With a long list of young players like Hilton, Moncrief, Allen, Fleener, Dorsett, Doyle... It was time to give them more opportunities.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I cannot comprehend the mentality of giving William O'Brien the GM any sort of grade at this point. GMs are graded over a much, much longer period than one season. It's a myopic perspective to rush to a grade when he's barely been at the job for 6 months.

GMs are graded on draft talent that impacts the field, salary cap management, trade deals, resigning veteran players, free agency signing(s), coaching and staff hires, and several other functions.

I get the applause over some of the moves he made this season, but I want to see the long term repercussions of those decisions. Will Tunsil sign? That issue alone needs to be resolved before even thinking about a grade. At this point as a GM, it's like giving out a final grade just two weeks into a semester.

How will O'Brien the GM manage things two years from now when the team does not have stud starters playing under rookie contracts but instead a bunch of highly paid players (and most likely a lack of depth)?

There's a potential he might not even be here but the franchise will be impacted by his short-sighted decisions because he's also making them as a head coach. This reason alone (GM vs. HC) is why most franchises want two qualified men in those positions. It's about objectivity, accountability, and checks & balances. The Texans right now have a dictator.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
They had to borrow from the future to get a young LT with great potential to protect DW4 because the Owner ordered DB gone and the last 2 OT classes haven't had an OT in it near as good as Tunsil.
Nor does 2020 draft. as I have said before, I will over pay some to get the quality I want. Left tackle is no longer a concern for me and it appears right tackle will no longer be either if Howard returns to his pre-injury productivity. Sharpie has seemingly eliminated left guard as a concern. Now if we can do the same for Right Guard we should have a great opportunity with our o-line for years to come. 2020 season should see a much better offense from a better protected number 4.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I will do my critique of BOB. I hope this stops future posts like this one from you, but we know that's not going to happen.

BOB runs the offense he does because it limits DW4's turnovers somewhat. I'm for this since DW4's a young QB although in a way I hope they use him like the Ravens use LJ just to shut some people up around these parts. It also shortens the game and somewhat hides the subpar defense.

I like what BOB the GM did last yr. The Texans have draft picks they just dont have a 1st rd pick in the next draft.

BOB's got too much on his plate. He needs to focus on the GM/HC duties and let Kelly call the plays.

BOB needs to hire somebody in the booth to challenge plays and help make TO calls.

Overall I would say BOB has taken this team as far as its talent could take it. Every time they've lost in the playoffs they've lost to the better team.

With this said, I would've fired BOB after 51-7 that should never happen in a playoff game.
Do you think that Romeo could take on the duties of the review And timeouts from the booth?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Sometimes the blame game isn't always the answer. Sometimes coaches, players and systems just don't match up. Who knows? Watson could have very well won a Super Bowl on another team.... the Texans may be Super Bowl champs this year with a different QB. Historically speaking, when you look at all the dynasties, Brady-Belichick, Landry-Staubach, Noll-Bradshaw, Lombardi-Starr, etc., they just had what it took. Do you think Brady would be the star he is today without Belichick? And do you think Belichick would be the coach he is today without Brady? Personally I would not put the blame 100 percent on any one specific Texan player or coach. Clearly, Watson isn't BOB's QB, and BOB isn't Watson's coach.
1000 % yes! And why I offered up the possibility of a trade for number 4 so he could go elsewhere and be the stud and we could get somebody here possibly to fill O'Brien criteria for QB or O'Brien would be shown Out the door.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
1000 % yes! And why I offered up the possibility of a trade for number 4 so he could go elsewhere and be the stud and we could get somebody here possibly to fill O'Brien criteria for QB or O'Brien would be shown Out the door.
And what exactly is his criteria for QB? Fitz? Hoyer? Mallett? Osweiler? Savage? Wasn't it OB who said there wasn't much difference between Savage and Garoppolo? Or was that Bridgewater?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don’t think that’s it at all. I think both guys are learning from each other & are growing together. I love my qb, wouldn't want any other from that 2017 draft........but DW4 is competitive...like, recklessly competitive & I think that's why we've seen him have a significant injury every single year he's been in the league. So I can see BoB feeling like he has to scale him back a little and protect him from himself at times & teach him how to somewhat corral that recklessness for the sake of the team........... and his career. That’s why we went out & used 2 out of our 1st 3 draft picks on o-linemen........& why we then saw the FO aggressively go out & give up what they did to get a Tunsil.....& why we see the emphasis on the run game.

On the flip side, DW4 is teaching BoB to trust him...what he sees on the field, what he thinks will work/won't work..suggesting plays...how to integrate more modern & creative ways to utilize him & move the ball. I've said it before but every single year DW4 has been in the league, something has been added into the regular rotation of playcalling that wasn't there the previous year. That's why its hilarious to me when people say that BoB isn't "using" DW4 right or he's trying to pigeonhole DW4 into his offense. Those new concepts wouldn't be in there but for him adjusting his offense to DW4 & all you really have to do is go back & watch what we were running pre-DW4 & after..yeah, you'll see alot of the same bread & butter concepts that pretty much every playbook has, but you'll also see a few new concepts that weren't there with guys like Oz, Hoyer & Fitz. Highly doubt we're running any RPO or say that trick play we ran against NE with any other qb we've had in BoB's tenure..1 b/c they weren't athletic enough to pull it off & 2, b/c he didn't trust any of those guys.
TLDR... but I think the gist is that Watson & BO'b are in this together, which I do believe. & the more they grow together the better they will be, which I hope is true.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Bob isn't using Watson right. He isn't really using any of the offensive players right which is why despite all the talent it's mediocre results.
I agree, kinda. He's not designing plays that take advantage of Watson's mobility. At the same time I don't think he's discouraging him from using it.

Which I think is where he needs to be. Reid did not design plays around McNabb's mobility. But he didn't discourage him from using it either.

Watson, imo, needs to be more decisive when there's nothing there. At the same time I think BO'b should help him out with moving pockets, real RPOs, & play action.

Now Duke & the TEs... yeah, massive misuse of talent.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Would you fork over 15 mil per? I like him and want him back...but He missed 6 games this year due to injury.

You drop 15 for him, may as well give Fuller 15 too. He made more of an impact than Roby did and played just as many games.
Dang we can Brian Jones for 15 million a year! I think Roby will try to convince somebody that if he's healthy he will have a great year... Didn't he do that with us?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
They were going to cut Rankin and got 1,000 yd rusher for him. Hyde isn't going to get paid much more than the vet min.

Conley was much better than KJO ever was and has the talent to make much improvement.

DW4 didn't make Tunsil in Miami where he was much better than in Houston and he still only gave up 3 sacks this year. 1 of which if I can remember correctly was directly related to DW4 holding onto the ball to long.

They are only missing their 1st Rd pick this ye, if you take into account they have a 3rd Rd comp pick, plus an extra high 4th. I consider Tunsil to be the 1st this year.

The way you are acting it's like they don't have any draft picks. Why all of the doom and gloom?

Just say I can't stand that mean old BOB and I love a mediocre Kubiak more than I love a mediocre BOB and move on. Stomp your feet a little if it helps you since we both know BOB'S going to be here another 3 years or more.
Yes exactly! It is not just being a half-full guy when saying that all of our starters playing together should be better in 2020. Yes we will lose some of our free agents and cut other players but that happens to all team. In my opinion That would make this roster better. I am not an O'Brien guy but am willing to see how he does in this next offseason. If he pulls off bringing in a couple vet free
Agents and does just above average in the draft at least, we could be Really good. we can still gripe and Grumble but O'Brien is not going anywhere.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Something they should have done years ago; a fact that you had agreed with in the past.
They needed an upgrade from Newton, that can also move to LT in the future when/if there's a need.
You and I had identified a few in previous drafts, don't you remember.

The point is not about the trade for Tunsil, but the failure to draft and/or develop linemen in years past.
Like what Kubiak did with Winston and Newton.
Yep, remember the 5th rd pick they gave up for Myers? Brown was the last tackle drafted in the 1st rd. They know how to develop offensive players. From the tight end to the rb to the oline. Foster was undrafted, Daniel was a 4th rd qb. Look at Kittle and those rbs in Frisco
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
And what exactly is his criteria for QB? Fitz? Hoyer? Mallett? Osweiler? Savage? Wasn't it OB who said there wasn't much difference between Savage and Garoppolo? Or was that Bridgewater?
For my topic it doesn't really matter. If he gets the quarter back he wants and wins hooray. If he gets the quarterback he wants and loses hooray as it should move him out. I don't want to wait another year but we have no choice. Again, O'Brien is going nowhere!
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yep, remember the 5th rd pick they gave up for Myers? Brown was the last tackle drafted in the 1st rd. They know how to develop offensive players. From the tight end to the rb to the oline. Foster was undrafted, Daniel was a 4th rd qb. Look at Kittle and those rbs in Frisco
Mike Brisiel was undrafted; Kubiak made a player out of him such that he received a second contract for good money with the Raiders.
Joel Dreessen was a 6th rounder that the Jets released after his rookie year and was out of football for a year before the Texans brought him here, and he was known as a good blocking TE when it's all said and done.
Ben Jones was a 4th rounder; he got a second contract for good money with the Titans.
Brandon Brooks was a third rounder; he got a big contract from the Eagles.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mike Brisiel was undrafted; Kubiak made a player out of him such that he received a second contract for good money with the Raiders.
Joel Dreessen was a 6th rounder that the Jets released after his rookie year and was out of football for a year before the Texans brought him here, and he was known as a good blocking TE when it's all said and done.
Ben Jones was a 4th rounder; he got a second contract for good money with the Titans.
Brandon Brooks was a third rounder; he got a big contract from the Eagles.
Alex Gibbs was a HOF OL coach.

Devlin not so much
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Luck got injured in game 3 and was never quite right the next 4 games; the Colts finally shut him down.
AJ himself was limited in games 3 and 4 (he was listed as Probable on the injury report, and did play, but saw few targets. You can verify all of this on Profootball reference.
The Colts were 3-4 and weren't going anywhere fast with old man Hasselbeck.
They fired their OC after game 8.

With a long list of young players like Hilton, Moncrief, Allen, Fleener, Dorsett, Doyle... It was time to give them more opportunities.
LOL

You're very good at distorting the truth.

Love AJ but he was about done.

He would tell you the same thing today.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Something they should have done years ago; a fact that you had agreed with in the past.
They needed an upgrade from Newton, that can also move to LT in the future when/if there's a need.
You and I had identified a few in previous drafts, don't you remember.

The point is not about the trade for Tunsil, but the failure to draft and/or develop linemen in years past.
Like what Kubiak did with Winston and Newton.
The last 2 drafts haven't been good OT drafts. RS didn't place the value on the QB/OL positions like we have. So there was nobody to really develop. They tried to develop Davenport and failed because he didn't have the feet to be a LT and didn't have the power to play RT. Devlin worked him out and I'm pretty sure recommended that RS drafted him. For this reason alone he should've been fired 2 yrs ago.
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
LOL

You're very good at distorting the truth.

Love AJ but he was about done.

He would tell you the same thing today.
What is it that I distorted?

Luck had the worst year of his career.
TY Hilton already showed that he was a steal in the third round.
Both Allen and Fleener were second rounder, for TEs, they've got to be pretty good.
Allen was a monster when he's healthy.
He already caught 8 TD passes the previous year in 13 games.
AJ's career best was 9 TDs in 16 games.
Moncrief was a third rounder, but he has 4.4 speed.
Dorsett was a first rounder with 4.33 speed.
The Colts were stacked on weapons.
What they needed were offensive linemen.

Why do you think AJ left?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
The last 2 drafts haven't been good OT drafts. RS didn't place the value on the QB/OL positions like we have. So there was nobody to really develop. They tried to develop Davenport and failed because he didn't have the feet to be a LT and didn't have the power to play RT. Devlin worked him out and I'm pretty sure recommended that RS drafted him. For this reason alone he should've been fired 2 yrs ago.
Does that sound like excuses for OB? :corrosion:

Keeping Devlin and Savage ought to be enough to fire him.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And what exactly is his criteria for QB? Fitz? Hoyer? Mallett? Osweiler? Savage? Wasn't it OB who said there wasn't much difference between Savage and Garoppolo? Or was that Bridgewater?
O'Brien thought there were a lot of good QBs in that draft, including Savage.
He also thought that Bortles and Johnny Football are among the top 3, along with Bridgewater.
He thought Manziel can sustain his level of play in the NFL. :firehair:

 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You may want to make note that Gibbs were with the Texans for only two years.
And did what he was brought in to do.

Recommended drafting DB, got Myers in trade and found Briesel and trained him up as an UDFA.

He also trained Benton on the intricacies of how to run/coach the ZBS. Do you really think Kubiak was teaching OL play?
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Does that sound like excuses for OB? :corrosion:

Keeping Devlin and Savage ought to be enough to fire him.
It's not an excuse for BOB and yes Devlin should be fired.

BOB shouldn't be fired for a failed 4th rd draft pick. Do you realize how stupid that sounds. It's like daying Kubiak should be fired for drafting Yates. LMAO
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What is it that I distorted?

Luck had the worst year of his career.
TY Hilton already showed that he was a steal in the third round.
Both Allen and Fleener were second rounder, for TEs, they've got to be pretty good.
Allen was a monster when he's healthy.
He already caught 8 TD passes the previous year in 13 games.
AJ's career best was 9 TDs in 16 games.
Moncrief was a third rounder, but he has 4.4 speed.
Dorsett was a first rounder with 4.33 speed.
The Colts were stacked on weapons.
What they needed were offensive linemen.

Why do you think AJ left?
How many passes gid he catch with the Titans the next yr ? Then he retired. He was on the downhill slope in Indy and fell off of the cliff with the Titans. I'm sure you will come up with some mundane statistic or failed reasoning for why this happened. But the truth is AJ was at the end of the line whether you can admit that or not.

Look I'm out, if you want to discuss this in the AE Kubiak thread or the Fire BOB thread I will be more than happy too. But I'm not interested in destroying another perfectly good thread with BOB hate talk, when we already have that thread.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
O'Brien thought there were a lot of good QBs in that draft, including Savage.
He also thought that Bortles and Johnny Football are among the top 3, along with Bridgewater.
He thought Manziel can sustain his level of play in the NFL. :firehair:

You should be happy, he thinks Manziel's style of play you can win with in the NFL. Uoi know who else has that style of play? I respectfully disagree with BOB and you on this.
 

theCATALYST

"Fake" Fan
1000 % yes! And why I offered up the possibility of a trade for number 4 so he could go elsewhere and be the stud and we could get somebody here possibly to fill O'Brien criteria for QB or O'Brien would be shown Out the door.
If OB where a smart guy and Watson wasn't the QB that fit his criteria.....then he would hire an OC who fit Watson. It is the easiest fix and 100% in his power to do.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And did what he was brought in to do.

Recommended drafting DB, got Myers in trade and found Briesel and trained him up as an UDFA.

He also trained Benton on the intricacies of how to run/coach the ZBS. Do you really think Kubiak was teaching OL play?
He went to the Ravens and they jumped 17 places in both yards and points scored.
Yes, of course, he knows all about it; he just doesn't do it every day.
It's what an OC and HC needs to know, especially one with extensive experience in the ZBS.
If you don't know the intricacy of line play, you can't design a good scheme with routes that take advantage of it.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It's not an excuse for BOB and yes Devlin should be fired.

BOB shouldn't be fired for a failed 4th rd draft pick. Do you realize how stupid that sounds. It's like daying Kubiak should be fired for drafting Yates. LMAO
No, he should be fired for repeated failures in the draft.
Just look at the draft record of the Texans since O'Brien arrived.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
How many passes gid he catch with the Titans the next yr ? Then he retired. He was on the downhill slope in Indy and fell off of the cliff with the Titans. I'm sure you will come up with some mundane statistic or failed reasoning for why this happened. But the truth is AJ was at the end of the line whether you can admit that or not.

Look I'm out, if you want to discuss this in the AE Kubiak thread or the Fire BOB thread I will be more than happy too. But I'm not interested in destroying another perfectly good thread with BOB hate talk, when we already have that thread.
Of course nobody can escape father time.
But, no. 2015 wasn't it.
I watched him play the first two games with Indy (you bet I had interest) and he still has a lot of perkiness in attitude and steps.
It was a different story the next year; it looks like he was finally tired of it all.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You should be happy, he thinks Manziel's style of play you can win with in the NFL. Uoi know who else has that style of play? I respectfully disagree with BOB and you on this.
We'll see about DW4 (once O'Brien finally get fires - LOL).
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No, he should be fired for repeated failures in the draft.
Just look at the draft record of the Texans since O'Brien arrived.
If he was the person responsible for the 6 yrs of drafting I would agree with you.

He wasn't, This will truly be the 1st yr that he's had full control of the draft/FA. I'm excited to see what he can do. I liked the moves he made after Gaine was fired. I hope he stays aggressive in both FA (Jones or Suh would be great adds.) and the draft. If a player they really like falls to the middle of the 2nd I hope they trade up and go get that guy. Gladney would be a guy I would trade up into the middle of the 2nd rd for but I doubt he lasts that long after he runs in the 4.3's at the Combine.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
He went to the Ravens and they jumped 17 places in both yards and points scored.
Yes, of course, he knows all about it; he just doesn't do it every day.
It's what an OC and HC needs to know, especially one with extensive experience in the ZBS.
If you don't know the intricacy of line play, you can't design a good scheme with routes that take advantage of it.
If he knows it as good as you think he does (I do think he fully understands the concepts) why did the OL suck until Gibbs got here?

For that matter why does he take Dennison everywhere he goes? Dennison is Kubiak's new Gibbs.

Like I said before lets take this to one of the other threads I suggested. I guess you dont want to do this for some unknown reason.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
If he knows it as good as you think he does (I do think he fully understands the concepts) why did the OL suck until Gibbs got here?

For that matter why does he take Dennison everywhere he goes? Dennison is Kubiak's new Gibbs.

Like I said before lets take this to one of the other threads I suggested. I guess you dont want to do this for some unknown reason.
I am preparing a new thread; don't know how long it will take, but it's coming.
 
And what exactly is his criteria for QB? Fitz? Hoyer? Mallett? Osweiler? Savage? Wasn't it OB who said there wasn't much difference between Savage and Garoppolo? Or was that Bridgewater?
His criteria is and always has been a pocket passer. You look at the way he schemes and the QBs he has had the most success with prior to the Texans and pocket passer is the name of the game. I think he thought Mallet could be the franchise QB with a little development but then Mallet threw a temper tantrum and showed he wasn’t even close to being a team leader. That’s not an excuse for OB, he should have seen that in Mallet.

Hoyer I think was just suppose to be a bridge and then later a decent backup. Basically what he has been his whole career. Savage was the project but it was a project that should have yielded much better results. To look that lost after 3 years of bench riding in the same system is inexcusable.

I actually don’t think OB wanted Osweiler but after Mallet and Hoyer were such flops and him no doubt telling McNair and RS that Savage wasn’t ready I think they took the QB decision out of his hands and I don’t blame them. Osweiler may not have been OBs flop but his previous flops forced their hand.

Last point is I think you are reading to much into saying there isn’t much difference between Savage and Jimmy G. Rule number one is never throw your newly drafted players under the bus and say you wish you got X even if you do. Throwing your rookie under the bus just makes you look stupid and completely demoralizes them. You don’t hear the Bears talking about how they wish they had drafted Watson or Mahomes even though you know they do.
 
I wonder who will follow O'Brien to his next destination. He had Godsey, but I think that bridge is burnt.
Devlin, either he has pictures of BoB with a sheep or something or has just sold him his soul. Not sure which but if he’s still here after all this then Devlin will ride this gravy train till it goes off a bridge and then still keep trying to shovel coal in it.
 


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