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Open Letter to all texans players...

76Texan

Hall of Fame
By year 3, Chester Pitts was the only starter remaining from the previous regime left for Kubiak.
(And he was lost in game 2 the following year).
....

In O'Brien's 6th year, he still needed to rely on two megastars left by Kubiak.

Plus Mercilus.
And the old hand JJo to start the year.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Though I thought the Texans would need another HC (due to Kubiak's health), I thought they could groom Kyle Shanahan.
That would have been good continuation for the long term
Except Shanahan was gone long before the banner years of 2011/2012 to say nothing of 2013
 
I totally disagree about Kubiak and O'Brien being on the same level.
If Kubiak had inherited a team similar like the one he left O'Brien with, he definitely would have done better.

Kubiak gave his DC complete autonomy; Wade said so in his book.
And the players all concur that Kubiak is a players' coach - not just here, but everywhere he goes.

It's just too bad that 2013 was a perfect storm when Foster got injured and Tate played hurt all year long. At one time, none of the TEs were healthy, and Schaub was just bad.
Same goes for the defense and the special team.

Though I thought the Texans would need another HC (due to Kubiak's health), I thought they could groom Kyle Shanahan.
That would have been good continuation for the long term.
One of the few things pretty much everyone on here agrees is that OB stays away from the defense and RAC had full control. Maybe not of what players were acquired but there is no evidence that OB had control of what players were acquired till this last off season either. Likewise despite what some on here say I can't think of any players that have spoken out against OB, against the Texans yes but not OB himself. In everything we've seen is that the players play hard for him and they actually like him as a coach. Not saying they play well for him but they don't quite and they play hard, and no that's not just because they are NFL players that want to win. Look at the Browns they no more cared about playing for Kitchens than the man in the moon, likewise Hargreaves doesn't seem to care about his career either. No just being a NFL player does not mean you play hard for any coach.

I fully agree 2013 was the perfect storm of tragedy just like 2017 was for Watson and OB, I fully believe that if Watson hadn't gotten hurt, and a few other pieces had stayed healthy, that was a SB team and SB year, the legacy of Houston football. Also the team Kubiak left OB with was aging and was on its last legs. You go back and look at the players we lost, Oline in particular and why we lost them and despite the narrative it wasn't OB cleaning house. He was a first time HC on his first year, Texans weren't going to let him clean house even if he wanted to. Also we didn't have a QB who at that point could have taken us any where.

Shanahan leaving wasn't the Texans fault and they couldn't have stopped him. He went to the Redskins where his father was the HC and let him be the OC no matter how badly he sucked and he did suck a lot when he was with the skins. History is being rewritten now that the 49ers are doing so well but Shanahan actually was not a good OC till 2016 with the Eagles and even then he was to aggressive and BB played him like a fiddle in that SB.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
One of the few things pretty much everyone on here agrees is that OB stays away from the defense and RAC had full control. Maybe not of what players were acquired but there is no evidence that OB had control of what players were acquired till this last off season either. Likewise despite what some on here say I can't think of any players that have spoken out against OB, against the Texans yes but not OB himself. In everything we've seen is that the players play hard for him and they actually like him as a coach. Not saying they play well for him but they don't quit and they play hard, and no that's not just because they are NFL players that want to win. Look at the Browns they no more cared about playing for Kitchens than the man in the moon, likewise Hargreaves doesn't seem to care about his career either. No just being a NFL player does not mean you play hard for any coach.

I fully agree 2013 was the perfect storm of tragedy just like 2017 was for Watson and OB, I fully believe that if Watson hadn't gotten hurt, and a few other pieces had stayed healthy, that was a SB team and SB year, the legacy of Houston football. Also the team Kubiak left OB with was aging and was on its last legs. You go back and look at the players we lost, Oline in particular and why we lost them and despite the narrative it wasn't OB cleaning house. He was a first time HC on his first year, Texans weren't going to let him clean house even if he wanted to. Also we didn't have a QB who at that point could have taken us any where.

Shanahan leaving wasn't the Texans fault and they couldn't have stopped him. He went to the Redskins where his father was the HC and let him be the OC no matter how badly he sucked and he did suck a lot when he was with the skins. History is being rewritten now that the 49ers are doing so well but Shanahan actually was not a good OC till 2016 with the Falcolns and even then he was to aggressive and BB played him like a fiddle in that SB.
Fify
 

banned1976

Fire Bill O’Brien
Agreed. Fair weather isn’t quit the right term for Houston. I’ve always said that Houston has a bunch of front running fans. When the teams are on, it’s pandemonium around here...but when things aren’t right, nothing. That’s why I’ve got so much respect for Browns, Bills, Raiders and Jets fans. They are out in force no matter what.
That’s a pretty low bar for respect earned. Show up to a football game, earn Mr teX’s respect.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Rankin got 6 starts before injury and he's still on his rookie's deal.

The Chiefs didn't need depth at RB.

Hyde is OK just like he usually is, though he's not involved in the passing game much.
Just OK seems to be O'Brien's thing.
The Texans most likely will have to pay more for him next year.

Conley is just better than Kevin Johnson.

The defense will continue to be the weakness.

Tunsil will never be an All-Pro.
He was helped by DW4 whether you like it or not.

The Texans won't be able to add as much talent as the Colts and the Titans.
The Jags, too.

I don't want to predict anything yet until the next draft is done.
If those teams hit on a player or two in the draft, it's going to be a long season.
They were going to cut Rankin and got 1,000 yd rusher for him. Hyde isn't going to get paid much more than the vet min.

Conley was much better than KJO ever was and has the talent to make much improvement.

DW4 didn't make Tunsil in Miami where he was much better than in Houston and he still only gave up 3 sacks this year. 1 of which if I can remember correctly was directly related to DW4 holding onto the ball to long.

They are only missing their 1st Rd pick this ye, if you take into account they have a 3rd Rd comp pick, plus an extra high 4th. I consider Tunsil to be the 1st this year.

The way you are acting it's like they don't have any draft picks. Why all of the doom and gloom?

Just say I can't stand that mean old BOB and I love a mediocre Kubiak more than I love a mediocre BOB and move on. Stomp your feet a little if it helps you since we both know BOB'S going to be here another 3 years or more.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Except Shanahan was gone long before the banner years of 2011/2012 to say nothing of 2013
Bring him back with apprentice designation for a year . Make him the next-in-line HC.
They already have a good working relationship.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
One of the few things pretty much everyone on here agrees is that OB stays away from the defense and RAC had full control. Maybe not of what players were acquired but there is no evidence that OB had control of what players were acquired till this last off season either. Likewise despite what some on here say I can't think of any players that have spoken out against OB, against the Texans yes but not OB himself. In everything we've seen is that the players play hard for him and they actually like him as a coach. Not saying they play well for him but they don't quite and they play hard, and no that's not just because they are NFL players that want to win. Look at the Browns they no more cared about playing for Kitchens than the man in the moon, likewise Hargreaves doesn't seem to care about his career either. No just being a NFL player does not mean you play hard for any coach.

I fully agree 2013 was the perfect storm of tragedy just like 2017 was for Watson and OB, I fully believe that if Watson hadn't gotten hurt, and a few other pieces had stayed healthy, that was a SB team and SB year, the legacy of Houston football. Also the team Kubiak left OB with was aging and was on its last legs. You go back and look at the players we lost, Oline in particular and why we lost them and despite the narrative it wasn't OB cleaning house. He was a first time HC on his first year, Texans weren't going to let him clean house even if he wanted to. Also we didn't have a QB who at that point could have taken us any where.

Shanahan leaving wasn't the Texans fault and they couldn't have stopped him. He went to the Redskins where his father was the HC and let him be the OC no matter how badly he sucked and he did suck a lot when he was with the skins. History is being rewritten now that the 49ers are doing so well but Shanahan actually was not a good OC till 2016 with the Eagles and even then he was to aggressive and BB played him like a fiddle in that SB.
Hopkins, DB, Brooks, Watts, Mercilus, Reed, KJax, JJo, Swearinger.
And even old Lechler.

With the shorten years of service by NFL standard today; that's more than a group of core players to build around
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
One of the few things pretty much everyone on here agrees is that OB stays away from the defense and RAC had full control. Maybe not of what players were acquired but there is no evidence that OB had control of what players were acquired till this last off season either. Likewise despite what some on here say I can't think of any players that have spoken out against OB, against the Texans yes but not OB himself. In everything we've seen is that the players play hard for him and they actually like him as a coach. Not saying they play well for him but they don't quite and they play hard, and no that's not just because they are NFL players that want to win. Look at the Browns they no more cared about playing for Kitchens than the man in the moon, likewise Hargreaves doesn't seem to care about his career either. No just being a NFL player does not mean you play hard for any coach.

I fully agree 2013 was the perfect storm of tragedy just like 2017 was for Watson and OB, I fully believe that if Watson hadn't gotten hurt, and a few other pieces had stayed healthy, that was a SB team and SB year, the legacy of Houston football. Also the team Kubiak left OB with was aging and was on its last legs. You go back and look at the players we lost, Oline in particular and why we lost them and despite the narrative it wasn't OB cleaning house. He was a first time HC on his first year, Texans weren't going to let him clean house even if he wanted to. Also we didn't have a QB who at that point could have taken us any where.

Shanahan leaving wasn't the Texans fault and they couldn't have stopped him. He went to the Redskins where his father was the HC and let him be the OC no matter how badly he sucked and he did suck a lot when he was with the skins. History is being rewritten now that the 49ers are doing so well but Shanahan actually was not a good OC till 2016 with the Eagles and even then he was to aggressive and BB played him like a fiddle in that SB.
If there's a new HC coming in today, he would have less to work with.
And he won't have the no. 1 overall pick, and also with one fewer future 1st and 2nd rounder.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Shanahan leaving wasn't the Texans fault and they couldn't have stopped him. He went to the Redskins where his father was the HC and let him be the OC no matter how badly he sucked and he did suck a lot when he was with the skins. History is being rewritten now that the 49ers are doing so well but Shanahan actually was not a good OC till 2016 with the Eagles and even then he was to aggressive and BB played him like a fiddle in that SB.
You must be kidding me.
The only down years KS had was when he had:
Grossman at QB and old man Jabar Gaffney as the no. 1 receiver.
Hoyer at QB, and zero no. 1 receiver.
The Browns leading receiver was a guy you probably don't even know about.

......

In 2016, the Falcons were 1st in scoring and 2nd in yard.
They shredded the Seahawks and Packers, and only lost in OT to the Pats in the SB.
Their defense just couldn't get off the field.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If there's a new HC coming in today, he would have less to work with.
And he won't have the no. 1 overall pick, and also with one fewer future 1st and 2nd rounder.
His number one pick is Tunsil and he's got an extra high 4th Rd pick.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
That’s a pretty low bar for respect earned. Show up to a football game, earn Mr teX’s respect.
Judged purely on 1 aspect of fandom, yeah sure they get my respect. They're fan base is as rabid as any other "winning" fan bases despite their teams being dumpster fires more often than not for the past 30 years. Texans fans even during winning seasons still can't manage to get to their seats on time for the start of the game.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
They were going to cut Rankin and got 1,000 yd rusher for him. Hyde isn't going to get paid much more than the vet min.

Conley was much better than KJO ever was and has the talent to make much improvement.

DW4 didn't make Tunsil in Miami where he was much better than in Houston and he still only gave up 3 sacks this year. 1 of which if I can remember correctly was directly related to DW4 holding onto the ball to long.
And why did they have to cut Rankin?
And why they had to cut KJo?

The HC is accountable for everything.

Rankin has already played better than he ever did with the Texans.
Zero penalty and 1 sack allowed in 6 starts.

So is KJo.
His PFF rating was 33.2 in 2017
But up to 73.2 this past year.

......

And sack allowed alone doesn't make an Olineman; you have to look at total pressures allowed and penalties.

Tunsil was below average in the playoffs; i charted him with at least 8 pressures allowed in 2 games.
That's 64 in 16 games; way too much for a LT.
I'll go back to look at it again when i have some time.
 
If there's a new HC coming in today, he would have less to work with.
And he won't have the no. 1 overall pick, and also with one fewer future 1st and 2nd rounder.
Picks that were well spent unless you can tell me where else we were going to get a LT that only gave up 3 sacks this season with less than a week to go before the season started.

You must be kidding me.
The only down years KS had was when he had:
Grossman at QB and old man Jabar Gaffney as the no. 1 receiver.
Hoyer at QB, and zero no. 1 receiver.
The Browns leading receiver was a guy you probably don't even know about.

......

In 2016, the Falcons were 1st in scoring and 2nd in yard.
They shredded the Seahawks and Packers, and only lost in OT to the Pats in the SB.
Their defense just couldn't get off the field.
Have no clue you are getting your facts from but they are wrong. Skins posted back to back losing seasons his first two years there and even his "breakout" season they were only 10-6 and went one and done in the playoffs. If you call that a good year than OB has been posting great years. Next year he, his father and the whole staff were fired. Who cares about the Browns, he didn't stay there long enough to do anything and in fact took a demotion to get out of there. As far as 2016 goes I said he had a good year but was to aggressive and BB used that to his advantage. Hell for that matter until this year his record with the 49ers was 6-10 and last year 4-12. He's having a good year this year but lets stop rewriting history why don't we.

 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
And why did they have to cut Rankin?
And why they had to cut KJo?

The HC is accountable for everything.

Rankin has already played better than he ever did with the Texans.
Zero penalty and 1 sack allowed in 6 starts.

So is KJo.
His PFF rating was 33.2 in 2017
But up to 73.2 this past year.

......

And sack allowed alone doesn't make an Olineman; you have to look at total pressures allowed and penalties.

Tunsil was below average in the playoffs; i charted him with at least 8 pressures allowed in 2 games.
That's 64 in 16 games; way too much for a LT.
I'll go back to look at it again when i have some time.
I see you love history..revisionist history.

Rankin has definitely NOT played much if at all better than he ever did under the Texans...unless you count 6 percentage points "better". Either way his PFF grade is still in the 40's which is exactly where it was when he was here. #2, He barely played with them before being lost for the season. He's just as likely to be cut there next year as he was to be cut here with us last year.

& K-jo's grade in 2016 under BoB was 81.2 so what's your point? Everyone knows why K-jo is no longer here & it has as much to do with his play dropping off over successive seasons as it does his health.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Picks that were well spent unless you can tell me where else we were going to get a LT that only gave up 3 sacks this season with less than a week to go before the season started.



Have no clue you are getting your facts from but they are wrong. Skins posted back to back losing seasons his first two years there and even his "breakout" season they were only 10-6 and went one and done in the playoffs. If you call that a good year than OB has been posting great years. Next year he, his father and the whole staff were fired. Who cares about the Browns, he didn't stay there long enough to do anything and in fact took a demotion to get out of there. As far as 2016 goes I said he had a good year but was to aggressive and BB used that to his advantage. Hell for that matter until this year his record with the 49ers was 6-10 and last year 4-12. He's having a good year this year but lets stop rewriting history why don't we.

He was only an OC.
He can only coach what was given.
Hía first year with the Skins he had old McNabb.
His second year was Grossman.
With the Browns, it was Hoyer.

As a HC with the Niners, he had no QB until Jimmy G (not his fault), and then JG got injured.
Remember Watson 2017?
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I see you love history..revisionist history.

Rankin has definitely NOT played much if at all better than he ever did under the Texans...unless you count 6 percentage points "better". Either way his PFF grade is still in the 40's which is exactly where it was when he was here. #2, He barely played with them before being lost for the season. He's just as likely to be cut there next year as he was to be cut here with us last

"Rankin has been a bright spot (for the Chiefs after struggling with the Texans."
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Bring him back with apprentice designation for a year . Make him the next-in-line HC.
They already have a good working relationship.
Lol, he's been getting an unofficial "apprentice designation" under his dad for years...that continued when he went to work for him in Washington....A dad who by the way has 2 rings as a HC. Lol, why stick around under a less accomplished HC in Kubiak for that?

Kubiak can't even put his own kids on for Coordinator jobs let alone "designate" someone his successor. Kubiak was having trouble keeping his own damn job at the time lol.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I see you love history..revisionist history.

Rankin has definitely NOT played much if at all better than he ever did under the Texans...unless you count 6 percentage points "better". Either way his PFF grade is still in the 40's which is exactly where it was when he was here. #2, He barely played with them before being lost for the season. He's just as likely to be cut there next year as he was to be cut here with us last year.

& K-jo's grade in 2016 under BoB was 81.2 so what's your point? Everyone knows why K-jo is no longer here & it has as much to do with his play dropping off over successive seasons as it does his health.
Worst CB in 2017


He only played 6 games in 2016, and was "protected" often.
It was KJax and JJo that carried the load.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Lol, he's been getting an unofficial "apprentice designation" under his dad for years...that continued when he went to work for him in Washington....A dad who by the way has 2 rings as a HC. Lol, why stick around under a less accomplished HC in Kubiak for that?

Kubiak can't even put his own kids on for Coordinator jobs let alone "designate" someone his successor. Kubiak was having trouble keeping his own damn job at the time lol.
No, Kubiak doesn't hire HC.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Worst CB in 2017


He only played 6 games in 2016, and was "protected" often.
It was KJax and JJo that carried the load.
And so you don't think he was "protected" by having a 1st team all pro CB opposite him a great pass rush and 2 very good safeties likely shading to his side in Poyer & Hyde? Lol, you're delusional. C'mon man.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, Kubiak doesn't hire HC.
Point is, Kubiak was in no position to designate or even recommend anyone for anything the years KS was here. By that point, Kubiak was 4 years in, we hadn't even had a winning season under him & he very well could've been fired the very next year with a less patient owner. It was a smart move for KS to move around & go work under his father where his employment for the next 2 years minimum was virtually guaranteed.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame

"Rankin had been playing very well".

Now, that's at least two guys. :swatter:
Lol in both articles they make reference to his cost effectiveness & the flexibility it affords them as a reason for even wanting him. Basically, they're saying "yeah, he played well for what we're paying him.."
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Point is, Kubiak was in no position to designate or even recommend anyone for anything the years KS was here. By that point, Kubiak was 4 years in, we hadn't even had a winning season under him & he very well could've been fired the very next year with a less patient owner. It was a smart move for KS to move around & go work under his father where his employment for the next 2 years minimum was virtually guaranteed.
It doesn't matter.
The hiring is done by somebody else, not Kubiak.
And when his health becomes a concern, it's definitely time for him to step back some from all the pressures.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
And so you don't think he was "protected" by having a 1st team all pro CB opposite him a great pass rush and 2 very good safeties likely shading to his side in Poyer & Hyde? Lol, you're delusional. C'mon man.
I intend to rewatch the Texans games; I'll let you know.
 
He was only an OC.
He can only coach what was given.
Hía first year with the Skins he had old McNabb.
His second year was Grossman.
With the Browns, it was Hoyer.

As a HC with the Niners, he had no QB until Jimmy G (not his fault), and then JG got injured.
Remember Watson 2017?
Wait so with him its "he can only coach what was given" but that doesn't apply to OB? Not trying to turn this into another OB debate but I'm confused on what the difference is. Unless you think OB was picking the players to draft/trade for prior to last off season.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Wait so with him its "he can only coach what was given" but that doesn't apply to OB? Not trying to turn this into another OB debate but I'm confused on what the difference is. Unless you think OB was picking the players to draft/trade for prior to last off season.
Yeah, but O'Brien was given better than what Kyle got.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
He left to go work for his dad... but you know this
Yeah, but everybody would be thrilled with an offer to be a HC.
Shanahan was when the Niners called on him; wasn't he?
What I was saying is that you keep tab on coaches at different levels and bring them in/back when the time suits.
The Texans already knew about Kyle; they should have plenty of information to work with.... wait; we're talking about the McNairs here. :corrosion:
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Homefield advantage only works for consistently good defenses.

I've lost my voice at too many games to count. Usually on 3rd and longs and the opposing team would most often convert.

It quickly makes you realize that the '12th man' is only effective if the defense is already good and feeds off of it.
The 12th man homefield advantage? Haven't you noticed that there are so many unknowledgeable "seat-filling" fans that have creeped into NRG these days that they many times make more noise when the Texans offense have the ball than when the opponent's defense does.
 
Yeah, but O'Brien was given better than what Kyle got.
How so? I'm seriously asking, he had Fitz, Mallet, Hoyer, Osweiler and Savage till he got Watson. Not any improvement over what Shanahan was given, AJ was on his way out and wasn't near the player he had been, as proven when he went to the Colts afterwards. He had Hopkins but even Nuk can't catch a pass that is thrown 5 yards away from him and on defense he had Watt and...…...well we had Watt.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I hope that I can get as excited when/if the Texans win a super bowl as I would have had I been a young man when it happened but I kind of doubt it. After all, I had already pretty much quit watching the Astros when they won the World Series. Now I’m glad I never allowed myself to get all hyped up about that considering all that’s been revealed since.

As I get older I find other things that interest me more than childhood games I use to play and enjoy watching.
Yep. I feel the same way.

I imagine that I would have been in the thick of many of these debates/arguments if internet forums had existed in the early '90's. Not proud to say, but I lived and breathed Oilers football.

Now, though, it's just a way to pass the time, but I'm finding myself gravitating toward other freetime endeavors that I enjoy much, much more.

Agreed. Fair weather isn’t quit the right term for Houston. I’ve always said that Houston has a bunch of front running fans. When the teams are on, it’s pandemonium around here...but when things aren’t right, nothing. That’s why I’ve got so much respect for Browns, Bills, Raiders and Jets fans. They are out in force no matter what.
Yeah, fans of certain teams have a rabidness to them that is pretty much a foreign concept to many Houston fans (honestly, myself included). Browns fans held a parade and pep rally when their team went 0-16! I can't even imagine anything close to that in Houston. The apathy around this city toward a winless team would be palpable. Seeing a team logo anywhere would be rare.

The 12th man homefield advantage? Haven't you noticed that there are so many unknowledgeable "seat-filling" fans that have creeped into NRG these days that they many times make more noise when the Texans offense have the ball than when the opponent's defense does.
I remember when Manning was with the Colts. They said you could hear a pin drop in Indy when Manning was on the field. They had televised PSAs educating fans when to be quiet and when to be loud. I read back then that fans would hold each other accountable! Try that in Houston and someone would get butthurt, maybe even dump a beer on ya'.
 
Yeah, but everybody would be thrilled with an offer to be a HC.
Shanahan was when the Niners called on him; wasn't he?
What I was saying is that you keep tab on coaches at different levels and bring them in/back when the time suits.
The Texans already knew about Kyle; they should have plenty of information to work with.... wait; we're talking about the McNairs here. :corrosion:
That's not fair at all, I get you love you some Shanahan but he had done absolutely nothing to show HC material when he was with the Texans. He was named OC in 08 and left the team in 10. His two seasons with them we went 8-8 and 9-7, he goes to the Redskins and they have two losing seasons and then one ok season. On top of that Kubiak was on his way out so why would they listen to him about who should be the HC when he wanted as far from the Kubiak days as they could get. Again you are rewriting history based on the one good season he is having this year.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
How so? I'm seriously asking, he had Fitz, Mallet, Hoyer, Osweiler and Savage till he got Watson. Not any improvement over what Shanahan was given, AJ was on his way out and wasn't near the player he had been, as proven when he went to the Colts afterwards. He had Hopkins but even Nuk can't catch a pass that is thrown 5 yards away from him and on defense he had Watt and...…...well we had Watt.
All those guys had played in an EP system before.
Kubiak even made Osweiler looked respectable in the WCO.
Savage was O'Brien pick.
Hail, how long did he keep the guy hanging around?

AJ still got 85 catches for 936 yards.
Hopkins had 76 for 1,210 yards.
(And it's ridiculous to say that Nuke is just meh.)

Your entire post doesn't make any sense; I shouldn't even have to respond to it.

--- I'm busy rewatching the Bills game at the moment.
Just a couple of series for now, but KJo doesn't look like a liability he once was.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That's not fair at all, I get you love you some Shanahan but he had done absolutely nothing to show HC material when he was with the Texans. He was named OC in 08 and left the team in 10. His two seasons with them we went 8-8 and 9-7, he goes to the Redskins and they have two losing seasons and then one ok season. On top of that Kubiak was on his way out so why would they listen to him about who should be the HC when he wanted as far from the Kubiak days as they could get. Again you are rewriting history based on the one good season he is having this year.
I'm not rewriting anything.
I did not propose to hire KS right away, but to keep tab of him.
I always think he has a future.
If I was the owner, I would have kept Kubiak and offer KS to come back in that apprentice role when Kubiak got that first stroke.
I would still retain Kubiak as the HC for another year or two, but I would give KS a bigger role, letting both of them know that Kyle is the successor providing that he shows/achieves certain things.
I would let Kubiak knows that he will stay with the organization (like what he was with the Broncos or he can also take the OC job on top of being the Senior Advisor like he's doing now with the Vikings if he so chooses.)

I believe in the WCO and KS was learning from two of the best coaches in that system (Kubiak and his dad).
 
All those guys had played in an EP system before.
Kubiak even made Osweiler looked respectable in the WCO.
Savage was O'Brien pick.
Hail, how long did he keep the guy hanging around?

AJ still got 85 catches for 936 yards.
Hopkins had 76 for 1,210 yards.
(And it's ridiculous to say that Nuke is just meh.)

Your entire post doesn't make any sense; I shouldn't even have to respond to it.

--- I'm busy rewatching the Bills game at the moment.
Just a couple of series for now, but KJo doesn't look like a liability he once was.
It made plenty of sense, OB inherited an aging team that was on its last legs. Osweiler only looked respectable in one game and even OB made him look that. I agree Savage was an OB pick, or at least he kept him around, and I've given him flak for that planet. I never said Nuk was meh I said that even he can't catch a ball thrown 5 yards away from him and he got so many catches not just because he is and was extremely talented but also because he was the only person worth throwing to.

I'm not rewriting anything.
I did not propose to hire KS right away, but to keep tab of him.
I always think he has a future.
If I was the owner, I would have kept Kubiak and offer KS to come back in that apprentice role when Kubiak got that first stroke.
I would still retain Kubiak as the HC for another year or two, but I would give KS a bigger role, letting both of them know that Kyle is the successor providing that he shows/achieves certain things.
I would let Kubiak knows that he will stay with the organization (like what he was with the Broncos or he can also take the OC job on top of being the Senior Advisor like he's doing now with the Vikings if he so chooses.)

I believe in the WCO and KS was learning from two of the best coaches in that system (Kubiak and his dad).
Speaking of not making sense your scenario here doesn't make any sense. No team in the world would do all this that you are talking about and you are using hindsight. There was nothing at all to suggest Kyle Shanahan would be even half the coach his dad was or even Kubiak was and to be fair he still hasn't won a SB yet and this is his first good season as a HC. As far as Kubiak goes the Texans wanted to move on from him and it was time so why would they keep him on for another year or 2 and why would they let him train his successor?

For that matter why would he want to? Hell for that matter why would Shanahan want to be the "apprentice" for Kubiak when he could go to Washington and be OC under his dad? Even then your time line makes absolutely zero sense, Shanahan left 3 years before Kubiak did and 4 years before OB got here. By the time the Texans hired OB Shanahan was already HC for the Browns so again how and when were the Texans suppose to hire him? Never mind why should they hire him.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I'm not rewriting anything.
I did not propose to hire KS right away, but to keep tab of him.
I always think he has a future.
If I was the owner, I would have kept Kubiak and offer KS to come back in that apprentice role when Kubiak got that first stroke.
I would still retain Kubiak as the HC for another year or two, but I would give KS a bigger role, letting both of them know that Kyle is the successor providing that he shows/achieves certain things.
I would let Kubiak knows that he will stay with the organization (like what he was with the Broncos or he can also take the OC job on top of being the Senior Advisor like he's doing now with the Vikings if he so chooses.)

I believe in the WCO and KS was learning from two of the best coaches in that system (Kubiak and his dad).

You as the owner could’ve wanted whatever...KS could’ve just as easily said peace out and did what he wound up doing anyway...which was the smart move for him.
This is all hindsight anyway though. Had he been named the “HC in waiting” there would’ve been uproar around here...with the same narratives people are using right now against BoB..

“I want the whole FO cleaned out, not another Kubiak clone and it’s stupid of McNair to hire a guy whose basically the same as the guy he just fired”.....blah blah blah.
 
You as the owner could’ve wanted whatever...KS could’ve just as easily said peace out and did what he wound up doing anyway...which was the smart move for him.
This is all hindsight anyway though. Had he been named the “HC in waiting” there would’ve been uproar around here...with the same narratives people are using right now against BoB..

“I want the whole FO cleaned out, not another Kubiak clone and it’s stupid of McNair to hire a guy whose basically the same as the guy he just fired”.....blah blah blah.
For example look at how people are reacting to Weaver being named the DC.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It made plenty of sense, OB inherited an aging team that was on its last legs. Osweiler only looked respectable in one game and even OB made him look that. I agree Savage was an OB pick, or at least he kept him around, and I've given him flak for that planet. I never said Nuk was meh I said that even he can't catch a ball thrown 5 yards away from him and he got so many catches not just because he is and was extremely talented but also because he was the only person worth throwing to.



Speaking of not making sense your scenario here doesn't make any sense. No team in the world would do all this that you are talking about and you are using hindsight. There was nothing at all to suggest Kyle Shanahan would be even half the coach his dad was or even Kubiak was and to be fair he still hasn't won a SB yet and this is his first good season as a HC. As far as Kubiak goes the Texans wanted to move on from him and it was time so why would they keep him on for another year or 2 and why would they let him train his successor?

For that matter why would he want to? Hell for that matter why would Shanahan want to be the "apprentice" for Kubiak when he could go to Washington and be OC under his dad? Even then your time line makes absolutely zero sense, Shanahan left 3 years before Kubiak did and 4 years before OB got here. By the time the Texans hired OB Shanahan was already HC for the Browns so again how and when were the Texans suppose to hire him? Never mind why should they hire him.
I said that's what I would do, not what Bill McNair would do.
KS was never the HC for the Browns.
And the timeline works just right.
Sure, Kyle wanted to go help his dad in Washington. Let him; he wasn't ready then.
Kubiak got his first mini-stroke in 2013.
The Redskins fired Shanahan Sr. at the end of that year as well.
I would have brought Kubiak back in 2014 and hired Kyle as the OC (the Browns tagged him for the position instead).
Kyle could be the apprentice for 1-3 years; I would set certain milestones for him.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
It made plenty of sense, OB inherited an aging team that was on its last legs. Osweiler only looked respectable in one game and even OB made him look that. I agree Savage was an OB pick, or at least he kept him around, and I've given him flak for that planet. I never said Nuk was meh I said that even he can't catch a ball thrown 5 yards away from him and he got so many catches not just because he is and was extremely talented but also because he was the only person worth throwing to.



Speaking of not making sense your scenario here doesn't make any sense. No team in the world would do all this that you are talking about and you are using hindsight. There was nothing at all to suggest Kyle Shanahan would be even half the coach his dad was or even Kubiak was and to be fair he still hasn't won a SB yet and this is his first good season as a HC. As far as Kubiak goes the Texans wanted to move on from him and it was time so why would they keep him on for another year or 2 and why would they let him train his successor?

For that matter why would he want to? Hell for that matter why would Shanahan want to be the "apprentice" for Kubiak when he could go to Washington and be OC under his dad? Even then your time line makes absolutely zero sense, Shanahan left 3 years before Kubiak did and 4 years before OB got here. By the time the Texans hired OB Shanahan was already HC for the Browns so again how and when were the Texans suppose to hire him? Never mind why should they hire him.
What do you mean aging?
The Texans were slightly younger than average in 2013, and that includes Lechler.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/snap-weighted-age-2013-nfl-rosters

AJ still had a full year left in 2014 and could be worked into the number 2 role without telling him 40 catches is the limit.
Kubiak can scheme even the slow turd Kelvin Water wide open.
OD was still good and Griffin & Graham saw plenty of usage under Kubiak, not even counting the RBs.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You as the owner could’ve wanted whatever...KS could’ve just as easily said peace out and did what he wound up doing anyway...which was the smart move for him.
This is all hindsight anyway though. Had he been named the “HC in waiting” there would’ve been uproar around here...with the same narratives people are using right now against BoB..

“I want the whole FO cleaned out, not another Kubiak clone and it’s stupid of McNair to hire a guy whose basically the same as the guy he just fired”.....blah blah blah.
Yeah, but that is what I would have done.
 
I said that's what I would do, not what Bill McNair would do.
KS was never the HC for the Browns.
And the timeline works just right.
Sure, Kyle wanted to go help his dad in Washington. Let him; he wasn't ready then.
Kubiak got his first mini-stroke in 2013.
The Redskins fired Shanahan Sr. at the end of that year as well.
I would have brought Kubiak back in 2014 and hired Kyle as the OC (the Browns tagged him for the position instead).
Kyle could be the apprentice for 1-3 years; I would set certain milestones for him.
You're correct about his time in Cleveland, I meant OC but was thinking OB and Kubiak and typed HC. In 14 Texans didn't want Kubiak back and neither did any of the fans after we went 2-14. Hell isn't that the thing people hate about OB is he went 4-12 and got an extension and then after each playoff meltdown had more power given to him? And again Shanahan did nothing to make anybody want him as a HC till he got to Atlanta and had his first good year as an OC. I maybe wrong and I wasn't on the boards back then but I find it really hard to believe you were pushing the idea to give Kubiak another 1-3 years and let him pick his successor.
 


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