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** Official Game-Day Thread** Texans vs Raiders, Monday Nov 21, 2016!!

I didn't see the Hopkins thing. I did see "spot gate".

The refs clearly blew those calls.

The Texans compounded those mistakes with bad coaching decisions late and huge defensive lapses.

If defense doesn't allow 14 points in the end you have a chance there too. Even just turning one of those TD's into a field goal changes the way the game goes.
 
Speedy said:
Actually, I think head coach is our problem.
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No doubt but unless you get a GM that chooses a coach that isn't just another YES man you have the same damn problem.
Rick Smith interview with BOB. Ok now BOB do what I say (which is what McNair says) and you just go along with me and I will give you the job and make sure you stay here (Until I need to put the knife in you back like I did with Kubiak) OK??? Ok you are the new coach.
 
fiasco west said:
Poor?

That 4th and 1 attempt was a clear first down. Clear. It wasn't even close. It wasn't even debatable.
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Hell worse than that. It was 4th and inches. He would clearly need to have been hit at the line or behind it for him to not get the first. He clearly went forward so we're not talking rocket science....Oh my bad. Apparently for the NFL referees it was rocket science. It was so freaking obvious that even Raiders fans are saying sometimes you have to be lucky. That had to be some of the worse officiating I have seen.

But in the end the linebackers couldn't cover the ground under their feet and got exposed in the coverage game. No adjustment was made and the Raiders took advantage of the gifts the refs gave them. I'm sure we'll those refs at the Oakland Raiders Christmas party.
 
Mr teX said:
Here's the thing though..if the refs get the call right off top, the 4th down play doesn't even happen where OB is forced to challenge. The refs were horrible all night and like I said at minimum they single handily wiped 10 points off the board.

Crap like this saps morale and it's no wonder the defense went in the tank RIGHT after that sequence of horrible calls against them.
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Ok well. The Raiders got the win, the Texans took the L.

Back to the drawing board and get ready for next week.
 
Thorsson said:
Osweiler's inability to throw the deep ball cost the Texans the game against a gassed Raiders defense. What is with all the short passes? Why doesn't Osweiler ever air it out?

I don't want to hear excuses about the refs; all teams benefit and suffer evenly throughout the year from poor officiating. The Texans should've won this game, or perhaps the Raiders should've put it away early but dropped easy pick sixes.
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For most of the night (basically until the 75 yard FB pass) Osweiler had more YPA and YPC than Carr
 
Texans had quite a few errors down the stretch, but what do you expect when you execute down the field only to have it stolen away from you by the officials after two back to back converted first downs? Things like that let the air out of teams all the time, and I had a feeling that was it once their guys stormed off the field excited and Carr was headed back in. The poor Texans had been fighting such a tough game and were on their way to trying to clinch it, and the refs refused to let it happen. That early TD they took from Nuk was was just as horrible, and between those plays that would be a potential 10 point difference in the game.

On another note just absolutely pathetic for OB to have punted the ball at the end and not even give these guys a chance when they had been converting plays and our defense hadn't held a thing the entire quarter. Just a total ridiculous play call.
 
The Texans got outcoached. I'm surprised O'Brien didn't kick the field goal & then punted on the next series. And Del Rio going for it on fourth down to close out the game was a great move on their part.
 
deucetx said:
Hell worse than that. It was 4th and inches. He would clearly need to have been hit at the line or behind it for him to not get the first. He clearly went forward so we're not talking rocket science....Oh my bad. Apparently for the NFL referees it was rocket science. It was so freaking obvious that even Raiders fans are saying sometimes you have to be lucky. That had to be some of the worse officiating I have seen.

But in the end the linebackers couldn't cover the ground under their feet and got exposed in the coverage game. No adjustment was made and the Raiders took advantage of the gifts the refs gave them. I'm sure we'll those refs at the Oakland Raiders Christmas party.
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See but again here's the thing, if the correct call is made we keep the ball continue to chew clock and likely put points on the board. You can't really blame the defense for having a let down after our offense gets screwed over like that.

It's no coincidence that the team as a whole went in the tank after that sequence of calls..
 
Kudos to espns van pelt, Charles woodson, and one of the other talking head post game goons for immediately calling out the refs.

MEGA SWATT said:
F the raiders, f del rio, f Carr, f mexico, f the refs, f the NFL and f espn.
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Amen brother. Anyone have a morning after pill?
 
deucetx said:
Hell worse than that. It was 4th and inches. He would clearly need to have been hit at the line or behind it for him to not get the first. He clearly went forward so we're not talking rocket science....Oh my bad. Apparently for the NFL referees it was rocket science. It was so freaking obvious that even Raiders fans are saying sometimes you have to be lucky. That had to be some of the worse officiating I have seen.

But in the end the linebackers couldn't cover the ground under their feet and got exposed in the coverage game. No adjustment was made and the Raiders took advantage of the gifts the refs gave them. I'm sure we'll those refs at the Oakland Raiders Christmas party.
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Like it wasn't even close, right...inches? The only way the refs miss that call is that they wanted to miss it or they clearly don't understand that you don't mark the ball where the knee is down at...

Either way it is flat out terrible. No wonder NFL ratings are on the decline, crap like that doesn't help.
 
Eh, you look back and we probably should have lost this game by more than 7. Osweiler got lucky that the D dropped a few interceptions. Defense was downright terrible and probably would have been scored on again had there been a few more minutes on the clock.

We were actually quite lucky to have been in a close game.
 
Adam Wexler ‏@awexlerKPRC
O'Brien said he thought about going for the 4th & 4 w/ 3:13 to go, but ultimately chose to try to pin them deep, had one TO. Didn't work

O'Brien: "Thought the offense played well, was much improved. Too bad we couldn't just pull it out." #Texans

O'Brien said he didn't think Hopkins was OOB. Said he thought about challenging a lot of plays in this game. Clearly unhappy w/ officiating.

Houston Texans ‏@HoustonTexans
O'Brien: "We just have to regroup here and turn the page to San Diego."

O'Brien on Mexico City: "Really cool atmosphere for both teams. Obviously the game didn't go the way we wanted it to."

PDS ‏@PatDStat
“I considered on challenging many plays today.” Bill O’Brien. O’Brien going off about Hopkins now then says he doesn't want to get fined.
 
4yearsfor$72M said:
You guys got absolutely fisted by the officials tonight. That's the most poorly officiated game I've seen in 2-3 years.

Laser pointers, terrible playing services, 3rd world countries.

Holy ****. And they wonder why the ratings are cratering.
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Ratings are going down mostly because TV is all commercials and talking heads nowadays and people are finally at the point where sports isn't going to keep them from dropping cable. A lot of that has to do with the way sports is covered now. It's only going to get worse.
 
I'm going to say one (very unpopular) thing about the refs - I can understand the Hopkins call. Obviously watching his feet on the replays he looked inbounds. In the full speed shots about his 4th step with his right foot it looks like he kicks up a cloud of white chalk and that's when the play was ruled dead (not as he was stumbling, the play was still live). I saw it the same time both side whistles blew and cursed audibly because I thought he was out as well. It wasn't his foot that was the indicator, it was the chalk.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Eh, you look back and we probably should have lost this game by more than 7. Osweiler got lucky that the D dropped a few interceptions. Defense was downright terrible and probably would have been scored on again had there been a few more minutes on the clock.

We were actually quite lucky to have been in a close game.
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You can make that argument both ways. The Hopkins non-TD, the BS PI call on Joseph, the BS personal foul call on Joseph, the non-first downs. The dumb fumble by Ervin. Raiders got lucky they didn't lose by more than 7.
 
dream_team said:
You can make that argument both ways. The Hopkins non-TD, the BS PI call on Joseph, the BS personal foul call on Joseph, the non-first downs. The dumb fumble by Ervin. Raiders got lucky they didn't lose by more than 7.
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Both teams actually did not play all that well. Texans offense had better numbers than usual but they actually got very lucky not to have committed more turnovers. Raiders couldn't run the ball at all and Carr was stagnant for 3 quarters.
 
Scooter said:
I'm going to say one (very unpopular) thing about the refs - I can understand the Hopkins call. Obviously watching his feet on the replays he looked inbounds. In the full speed shots about his 4th step with his right foot it looks like he kicks up a cloud of white chalk and that's when the play was ruled dead (not as he was stumbling, the play was still live). I saw it the same time both side whistles blew and cursed audibly because I thought he was out as well. It wasn't his foot that was the indicator, it was the chalk.
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I consider those 50/50 calls. Could have went either way. Unfortunately, it went against us.
 
Note to BoB: If you're going to punt the ball on 4th and 5 with 3:13 on the clock to a team that has driven the ball 160 yards and scored 2 touchdowns on us the last 2 drives, please don't watch the game clock wind down when they convert the first down with 2:05 on the clock -- a timeout there would have saved us 40 seconds of game clock.
 
dream_team said:
How concerned should we be about that laser pointer? It was obviously a Raider fan trying to distract Os. It went on basically the whole game. Could have it really bothered Os?
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Having been hit with one in the eye a couple days ago by my nephew, yeah it could certainly be an issue. I didn't notice it affect Oz (because it took me a very obvious minute to blink my way back into seeing clearly), but it's certainly a security problem and may have caused Oz some trouble.
 
Scooter said:
I'm going to say one (very unpopular) thing about the refs - I can understand the Hopkins call. Obviously watching his feet on the replays he looked inbounds. In the full speed shots about his 4th step with his right foot it looks like he kicks up a cloud of white chalk and that's when the play was ruled dead (not as he was stumbling, the play was still live). I saw it the same time both side whistles blew and cursed audibly because I thought he was out as well. It wasn't his foot that was the indicator, it was the chalk.
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I think that is what the ref(s) saw as well, and from one replay I thought he looked out; however, another replay made me believe the chalk he kicked-up was from the sideline hashmark and not the sideline itself. That call ended up probably costing the Texans 4 points. The good news though is they got them back on the PI called in the end zone when the ball was way overthrown and the receiver gave up on the route. So instead of a FG, the Texans got a TD, and their 4 points back. That leaves the spots in question as the main call(s) to be disputed, and I can't say that they were good calls. I mean, I liked them, but I can't say they were right. On the other hand, did you see how Latavius Murray left no doubt on his 4th down run at the end of the game to seal the deal? Had the Texans done that, then who knows.

Being a Raider fan I'm used to the refs screwing the Raiders. I feel dirty watching them help the Raiders. I don't know how to feel. It just isn't right.

Anyway, I personally hate the way that Musgrave calls a game, and most Raider fans agree. Still, I can't argue too much with results. Still, our biggest gripe are his continued runs up-the-gut when it isn't working, and the RB/WR screens thrown behind the LOS that require the player to make the defender miss. Also, I hate KNJ (Ken Norton, Jr) Seattle bend-but-don't-break defense, though it does seem to be just good enough to cover the Raiders' offense. I think the Raiders OC and DC got out-coached, but the size of the Raiders wore down the Texans and allowed them to do what they've done to other teams in the 4th quarter.

This game gave me something to actually gauge the Texans by, and they look to have a pretty good team in spite of Osweiler. He seems to do alright on the short passes, and I think that will expand as he matures and learns the offense. The Texans defense is stout.
 
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Cerberus said:
I think that is what the ref(s) saw as well, and from one replay I thought he looked out; however, another replay made me believe the chalk he kicked-up was from the sideline hashmark and not the sideline itself. That call ended up probably costing the Texans 4 points. The good news though is they got them back on the PI called in the end zone when the ball was way overthrown and the receiver gave up on the route. So instead of a FG, the Texans got a TD, and their 4 points back.
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I agree shouldn't have been a PI, but it was defensive holding. Should have just been a 5 yard penalty & auto first down.
 
dream_team said:
Yup, Brock says it bothered him.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=18110447
http://es.pn/2gbg52b
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Well, there you go. As I said, I recently was reintroduced to it's effects and it hurts - I can't imagine trying to throw as it's happening. There were a couple times during the game that I wanted Brock to talk to the ref about it and between the teams make a fuss on the field. Hoping security finds the guy is usually a losing prospect unless those around him give him up. I hope this is one of many reasons we don't go back to Mexico.
 
I think Obrien has made plenty of management mistakes but I don't know what everyone is that upset over this about. I mean between the PI on Bouye, the Hopkins TD, and the three missed conversions, thats probably a 10-14 point swing in the game. The 4th down is the biggest in my mind... I mean the momentum that gives the other team... Instead of converting on 4th and getting to drain the clock, you are celebrating and ready to go. And it never should have gotten to 4th down. It was SO obvious... A buddy of mine thats a raiders fan sent me a message... He knew it, everyone knew it... The only things less obvious were Derks size 20 shoe out of bounds, Renfros foot in bounds and the blown call at first in 86... Other than that... Meh
 
Like I said during the week, don't overlook our inability to score against a bad defense. We held the Raiders to around 7 rushing yards and under 100 total at halftime. We dominated time of possession the first 3 quarters. We have an excess of assets on offense and Duane Brown is mowing down defenders 2 at a time. Sh*t or get off the pot ... this game could've (should've) been out of reach by halftime and out of referee influence. We went the flaccid approach to a first half tie and gimped our way to 20 points against one of the worst defenses (deja vu).

We're all pissed about the refs, but this game should've been out of hand long before they could make a noticeable impact. That's on O'Brien.
 
Rewatched highlights from the game and the 2nd & 7 pass the Raiders completed at the end of the game to get a first down and essentially ice the game should have been delay of game. Play clock ran out before the snap and then Raiders complete a 29-yard pass where player slides out of bounds on the catch. Not only did they not call delay of game but they also ruled player down in-bounds and kept running the clock. Truly horrid officiating last night.
 
deucetx said:
Hell worse than that. It was 4th and inches. He would clearly need to have been hit at the line or behind it for him to not get the first. He clearly went forward so we're not talking rocket science....Oh my bad. Apparently for the NFL referees it was rocket science. It was so freaking obvious that even Raiders fans are saying sometimes you have to be lucky. That had to be some of the worse officiating I have seen.

But in the end the linebackers couldn't cover the ground under their feet and got exposed in the coverage game. No adjustment was made and the Raiders took advantage of the gifts the refs gave them. I'm sure we'll those refs at the Oakland Raiders Christmas party.
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Another reason to quit wasting time with the WWE, ooops the NFL.
 
Texanmike02 said:
I think Obrien has made plenty of management mistakes but I don't know what everyone is that upset over this about. I mean between the PI on Bouye, the Hopkins TD, and the three missed conversions, thats probably a 10-14 point swing in the game. The 4th down is the biggest in my mind... I mean the momentum that gives the other team... Instead of converting on 4th and getting to drain the clock, you are celebrating and ready to go. And it never should have gotten to 4th down. It was SO obvious... A buddy of mine thats a raiders fan sent me a message... He knew it, everyone knew it... The only things less obvious were Derks size 20 shoe out of bounds, Renfros foot in bounds and the blown call at first in 86... Other than that... Meh
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This is my thing..everyone's focusing on OB's decision to not go for it with 3 minutes left as some huge gaffe and they're ignoring the sequence of events that led to that and how that crap altered the events afterward...which in all likelihood don't happen the way they do if the correct calls are made in the 1st damn place.

not only does OB save a TO and is not forced to potentially lose it on a challenge like he eventually did, we also likely wind up chewing at minimum another 2 minutes off the clock and put points up on the board to boot. So even if the raiders do go down and score a TD on their next possession like they did, there's likely less time on the clock than 3 minutes when we get the ball back. But rather than having only 2 opportunities to stop the clock we've got 3opportunities...... if you count the 2 min warning. Knowing all this, do u really think he punts the ball at that point?

Those blown spots alter the game and strategy well beyond just the turnover on downs.
 
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This is probably the least-entertaining NFL season that I can ever remember. The league has practically eliminated kickoff returns, referee discretion on penalties can make or break games, players involving politics, overpaid mediocre players, and a horribly-managed and coached team (Cleveland Browns) that probably couldn't defeat Ohio State!
 
When all is said and done, we suddenly come to the realization that it was a pretty darn good game of football.
Just a shame we didn't get the W.
 
Texansphan said:
When all is said and done, we suddenly come to the realization that it was a pretty darn good game of football.
Just a shame we didn't get the W.
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I honestly think the NFL couldn't have asked for anything more. The game was close through out, exciting ending, and lots of controversy to continue the discussion of the game for the next few days.
 
Cerberus said:
I actually thought Hopkins may have been jobbed on the play, until I saw this. I knew in the angle they showed on t.v. that a coach was in the way on the crucial step. This video shows a different angle.

https://twitter.com/DeanBlandino/status/800901082570518528
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Just now reading this thread, but this is the angles that convinced me, discussed in another thread, that the call was legitimate. I seldom watch post game analysis, so this post is appreciated.
 
Thorsson said:
This is probably the least-entertaining NFL season that I can ever remember. The league has practically eliminated kickoff returns, referee discretion on penalties can make or break games, players involving politics, overpaid mediocre players, and a horribly-managed and coached team (Cleveland Browns) that probably couldn't defeat Ohio State!
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Well stated. I'm having problems getting into this season for similar reasons.
 
Thorsson said:
This is probably the least-entertaining NFL season that I can ever remember. The league has practically eliminated kickoff returns, referee discretion on penalties can make or break games, players involving politics, overpaid mediocre players, and a horribly-managed and coached team (Cleveland Browns) that probably couldn't defeat Ohio State!
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Yup. Everyone everywhere laughed at me when I sounded the alarm about the slippery slope about all this over the last few years. You never realize it until it's too late.
 
2nd down

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3rd down

7fbd9a4c7a762be9d81c18bbc6f608f5.jpg


4th down

499aecb5c542429b5528118265b4937a.jpg
 
thunderkyss said:
2nd down

attachment.php


3rd down

7fbd9a4c7a762be9d81c18bbc6f608f5.jpg


4th down

499aecb5c542429b5528118265b4937a.jpg
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Impossible to tell from pics alone, but watching live I didn't think he got it on 2nd, did on 3rd and did in 4th.

But I thought the only egregious one was the third down. And if you're going to go for it on 4th down anyways, then it makes no sense not to challenge THAT call in a tie game late and then challenge the 4th down call.

Bad job by OB.
 
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xtruroyaltyx said:
Impossible to tell from pics alone, but watching live I didn't think he got it on 2nd, did on 3rd and did in 4th.

But I thought the only egregious one was the third down.
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I understand you can't tell definitively from these pictures. these just add to the discussion.

if you have the want to, to go back & watch, look at where L.Miller is on that 2nd down play. then look where they spotted the ball for 3rd down. in the 3rd down picture you can see the black line.

not 100% definitive from these pictures. but they support our narrative.

there was at least two other times I remember Hopkins trying to correct the refs on where the ball should be spotted. they were screwing us the whole game... probably the Raiders too. next time I watch the game, I'll pay attention to their spots as well.
 
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