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**Official Game-Day Thread** Texans at Patriots- 7:25 PM Thursday, Sept. 22, 2016!!

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
I didn't because our players fumbled and threw interception, failed to tackle effectively and spent a lot of the night getting their butts handed to them in their individual assignments.

They looked like they had no faith in the plan (whatever it was). That's what I thought I was looking at. Yes they were out coached. Our offense looked like the one with a scared rookie taking the snaps with the monotonous plays being called and our defense looked like it was giving the Patriots way too much respect. They looked like they were trying to play "prevent defense" all game long and just keep everything in front of them whenever possible. We were absolutely out coached.

But the players made a metric ****-ton of mistakes.
Special teams killed us, but the offensive game plan didn't do our QB any favors

Way too many missed tackles though..everybody **** the bed.. I mainly put it on the coaches though.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Well if you subscribe to the theory that it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play the game* then yeah, the coaches get the lions share of the "WTF are you doing?" in this one.

I don't think a single Texans was ready to play that game.




*like pretty much all of mankind that watches any sport
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Well if you subscribe to the theory that it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play the game* then yeah, the coaches get the lions share of the "WTF are you doing?" in this one.

I don't think a single Texans was ready to play that game.

*like pretty much all of mankind that watches any sport
It wasn't just getting them ready, it was also in game coaching.. I mean when your punter has to tell your Head Coach to challenge a play, what the hell is going on. I've never seen that before and doubt I ever will... what the hell was the guy who has that responsibility doing? Was he taking a **** break?

Then you have the questionable 1st down (it really wasn't questionable, that wasn't a first down) and instead of hurrying up to snap the ball..we have to burn a timeout, because the play clock is about to run out. Then you have O'Brien calling a time out when the game was clearly out of reach and the Pats could still end the game by kneeling it... WTF was that. They not only got their teeth kicked in, they did worse.. They flat out embarrassed themselves in front of the entire country.
 
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gafftop

All Pro
Could it be that every player could see the game plan would not work. Could it be the whole coaching staff is clueless. I know don't be so negative.
Oh wait the punter is the one that told the coaching staff to review the no fumble by the Pats on the punt. Punter to BOB you should throw the flag on that play coach. Really embarrassing.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
I always respect your takes, man, but just curious why you think he's the most overrated GM in the league. I'm not sure how you separate it with the success he's had over the last 15 years. He's finding guys that he can consistently coach, and often they leave and suck somewhere else. He'll cut good players before absorbing huge contracts and always seems to land on his feet with finding replacements.
You know, I thought about this last night after changing the channel in the 3rd quarter. I think you're probably right. He finds these random cats that do everything their way and do them well. He does seem to miss on higher round picks, so maybe that's where I came to my conclusion. I'm probably wrong, but it's also why I'm sitting here staring at this screen on a Friday morning and not part of an NFL organization. Ha
 

Wolf

100% Texan
This was the first time that watching the game that i was catching myself guessing the playcalling before the play.

Funny how a 10 to zero deficit felt like it was 30 -0.
I just wasnt pumped for the game last night esp when it looked like the Texans brought their letterjackets with them
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
About the "game". I'm not even going to bother calling out players that had bad games, or even re-watch the game. Last night I chose to lay this dumpster fire at the feet of our coaching staff. This was probably the worst "gameplan" I've ever witnessed with my own eyes. Sure, the players shat the bed in the end, but it was their coaches that fed them the spoiled meat.

This was about Daddy (Belichick) *****-slapping his step-child (O'Brien) for soiling his vintage Playboy collection.

Running the ball on 3rd downs when your running game sucks. :spit:
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Well if you subscribe to the theory that it's the coaches job to get the players ready to play the game* then yeah, the coaches get the lions share of the "WTF are you doing?" in this one.

I don't think a single Texans was ready to play that game.
I don't think this was an issue of not being ready. I think the game plan was to "not panic" which turned into zero urgency, & eventually giving up.
 

santo

All Pro
Contributor's Club
I don't think this was an issue of not being ready. I think the game plan was to "not panic" which turned into zero urgency, & eventually giving up.
I think that's the problem. Patriots came in probably thinking they have nothing to lose. The Texans should have came in thinking the same way. Maybe the Texans were worried about their ranking and bowl bid.

:kitten:
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Ryan Griffin named the Texans player of the game because the company (Reliant) who sponsors the "honor" has a contract and they had to name somebody.

Ryan Griffin - POTG. That's just another pie in the face.
It should have been Lechler then since he was apparently the only Texan in the building actually paying any attention.
 

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
on a lot of the running plays why wasent Porche running with miller ..???? with two high safteys having a FB and RB plow away would of been better IMO
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
After a decade of this org structure it obviously isn't working. Time to bring in a football guy as GM.
I don't understand this post at all, how is Rick Smith not "a football guy"? (what's your definition of "a football guy?) He works for a football team and came up through the Broncos "football" organization.. He made a career in football alone.. it's not like we hired Daryll Morey to be our football G.M.

The players were not the issue in this game.. the coaching and scheme/game plan was.. we are coming off a very strong draft..sad the center got hurt. We have more talent than the team Boston had available on Thursday.. talent was not the issue in that game so in that sense Rick Smith did his job, the issue was the coaching.. our coaching staff stuck our players behind the eight ball all night long. We got out coached simple as that. Move on to next week and hope that they learned from it.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I heard the guys on the post game show talking about the crummy hotel the guys stayed in & being stuck on the bus for over an hour trying to get to the stadium.

Not putting all the blame there, just that they thought something sounded fishy in a Belichikian way.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I don't understand this post at all, how is Rick Smith not "a football guy"? (what's your definition of "a football guy?) He works for a football team and came up through the Broncos "football" organization.. He made a career in football alone.. it's not like we hired Daryll Morey to be our football G.M.

The players were not the issue in this game.. the coaching and scheme/game plan was.. we are coming off a very strong draft..sad the center got hurt. We have more talent than the team Boston had available on Thursday.. talent was not the issue in that game so in that sense Rick Smith did his job, the issue was the coaching.. our coaching staff stuck our players behind the eight ball all night long. We got out coached simple as that. Move on to next week and hope that they learned from it.
My definition of a football guy is Newsome/Kiem/Colbert/Polian/Gettleman etc... guys that are in charge of the whole org on the football side, the HC answers to him and the GM pours over tape with the scouts to find players/hidden gems and the owner lets the GM do his job finding these players. Instead of the current boardroom environment decision making climate. It hasn't worked for 14 yrs and I dont expect much to change. This environment is the issue that causes games like Thursday night. IMHO

I think you overrate the talent on this team, like many have over the yrs. They're making the playoffs good but nowhere near a championship level talented team. BTW, I agree with you, the coaching staff got their butts handed to them Thursday.

Do you believe Smith is a football guy and after a decade the way that the org is structured will bring a championship to this city?
 
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Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
My definition of a football guy is Newsome/Kiem/Colbert/Polian/Gettleman etc... guys that are in charge of the whole org on the football side, the HC answers to him and the GM pours over tape with the scouts to find players/hidden gems and the owner lets the GM do his job finding these players. Instead of the current boardroom environment decision making climate. It hasn't worked for 14 yrs and I dont expect much to change. This environment is the issue that causes games like Thursday night. IMHO

I think you overrate the talent on this team, like many have over the yrs. They're making the playoffs good but nowhere near a championship level talented team. BTW, I agree with you, the coaching staff got their butts handed to them Thursday.

Do you believe Smith is a football guy and after a decade the way that the org is structured will bring a championship to this city?
You were very high on this team before the season and just last week. I don't see how one bad loss reverses everything you felt before. I have been just as critical of Smith as anyone in the past, but Smith did not have a bad off season. He had a very strong one whether Oz ends up being terrible or not if you ask me. He made a gamble on veteran QB instead of giving up assets for a rookie. I wasn't that high on that move at first, but overall I can't see that as a bad play. Coaching was horrid last week. That lost this game more than anything. Smith deserves criticism for a lot of things, but he has a current roster with plenty of talent to win big games. That is OB's job to make that happen at this point.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
You were very high on this team before the season and just last week. I don't see how one bad loss reverses everything you felt before. I have been just as critical of Smith as anyone in the past, but Smith did not have a bad off season. He had a very strong one whether Oz ends up being terrible or not if you ask me. He made a gamble on veteran QB instead of giving up assets for a rookie. I wasn't that high on that move at first, but overall I can't see that as a bad play. Coaching was horrid last week. That lost this game more than anything. Smith deserves criticism for a lot of things, but he has a current roster with plenty of talent to win big games. That is OB's job to make that happen at this point.
When you see Donald Stephenson signed for 3 mil and Bergstrom signed for 1.65 or 1.85 mil and the Texans still have around 5 mil on the cap and how bad the OL looks Smith didn't do everything he could to put the best team possible on the field this yr. For instance do you think Josh Kline would be an upgrade over Mancz right about now?

I'm still high on this team because I think this is a 2 yr rebuild of the offense. There are 2 reasons I'm not as high on them as I was last week, for 2 reasons

1. The team was totally unprepared for prime time. I never thought I would see that in a BOB coached team.
2. Watt is a shell of himself and age doesn't make back injuries better. They are still going to have to pay Watt like he's the best defensive player in the NFL and his production will fall off. IMHO This is going to screw up the salary cap just as the offense starts to improve, which will lead to more 6-10, 10-6 seasons but not really a SB contender. If the Texans were smart they would hold Watt out until he's fully healthy to reduce the injury risk somewhat. The Texans always seem to rush their players back from injury for some reason.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
When you see Donald Stephenson signed for 3 mil and Bergstrom signed for 1.65 or 1.85 mil and the Texans still have around 5 mil on the cap and how bad the OL looks Smith didn't do everything he could to put the best team possible on the field this yr. For instance do you think Josh Kline would be an upgrade over Mancz right about now?

I'm still high on this team because I think this is a 2 yr rebuild of the offense. There are 2 reasons I'm not as high on them as I was last week, for 2 reasons

1. The team was totally unprepared for prime time. I never thought I would see that in a BOB coached team.
2. Watt is a shell of himself and age doesn't make back injuries better. They are still going to have to pay Watt like he's the best defensive player in the NFL and his production will fall off. IMHO This is going to screw up the salary cap just as the offense starts to improve, which will lead to more 6-10, 10-6 seasons but not really a SB contender. If the Texans were smart they would hold Watt out until he's fully healthy to reduce the injury risk somewhat. The Texans always seem to rush their players back from injury for some reason.
The Watt issue bothers me. If you remember I was not happy about him playing as I figured he wasn't 100%. If Watt insisted on playing and said he was ready to go, then that is his fault. He screwed up his own season if he pushed for it.

I'll wait and see how this team responds. OB got his QB he wanted and a lot of new weapons. It is put up or shut up time for him within this year and next year unless they totally tank which I have a very strong doubt of that happening. I still see this team winning the division, but its very hard to gauge how good every team is with so many young QB's in our division.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
My definition of a football guy is Newsome/Kiem/Colbert/Polian/Gettleman etc... guys that are in charge of the whole org on the football side, the HC answers to him and the GM pours over tape with the scouts to find players/hidden gems and the owner lets the GM do his job finding these players. Instead of the current boardroom environment decision making climate. It hasn't worked for 14 yrs and I dont expect much to change. This environment is the issue that causes games like Thursday night. IMHO

I think you overrate the talent on this team, like many have over the yrs. They're making the playoffs good but nowhere near a championship level talented team. BTW, I agree with you, the coaching staff got their butts handed to them Thursday.

Do you believe Smith is a football guy and after a decade the way that the org is structured will bring a championship to this city?
Do you really think that Newsome tells Harbaugh "I"m drafting this guy and signing that guy and you'll play them and win " ? Everything is black & white with you... that's all in your head about this or that GM has total dictatorial powers over the whole organization, including the team owner, HC and down to the waterboy. The NFL is a corporation and all the teams in it are a corporation. There is no one power at any level regardless of how you want it to be in your mind
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
Do you really think that Newsome tells Harbaugh "I"m drafting this guy and signing that guy and you'll play them and win " ? Everything is black & white with you... that's all in your head about this or that GM has total dictatorial powers over the whole organization, including the team owner, HC and down to the waterboy. The NFL is a corporation and all the teams in it are a corporation. There is no one power at any level regardless of how you want it to be in your mind
Lol. . His definition of "a football guy" doesn't exist in the NFL.. Oh ****.. he does, his name is Jerry Jones. A guy who has all control and has the power to force his opinion on everyone and the entire organization...that's a football guy?
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Do you not think Belichick has total control over football decisions?
Depends on what you mean by "total control". Does Belichick make the final call on personnel decisions? Most likely.

Does he do that without consulting his coordinators, scouts and staff? Not a chance. He hired Michael Lombardi (he and Lombardi go all the way back to the 1990-something Browns) to help him out in personnel decisions back in 2014. Now that Fox Sports has lured Lombardi back to TV it'll be interesting to see who Belichick picks to fill that void.

Bottom line is the GM job is too big for anyone to do it without help.
 
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steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Yep he tells Kraft who he's signing and tells him to cut the check or get out and he'll find a new owner .
Pretty much

If Kraft doesn't do what's best for the on field product then BB will find an owner who will when his contract is up. This leads to trading for headcases like Moss/Hernandez/Dillon etc... but hey they win.

Could you see McNair giving the OK for moves like t though his? Fact is the Texans are a corporation that does things like corporations do. It's not really conducive to winning a SB though. You will make alot of $$$$ though.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Depends on what you mean by "total control". Does Belichick make the final call on personnel decisions? Most likely.

Does he do that without consulting his coordinators, scouts and staff? Not a chance. He hired Michael Lombardi (he and Lombardi go all the way back to the 1990-something Browns) to help him out in personnel decisions back in 2014. Now that Fox Sports has lured Lombardi back to TV it'll be interesting to see who Belichick picks to fill that void.

Bottom line is the GM job is too big for anyone to do it without help.
Agreed, but there is no doubt Belichick makes the final decisions. He watches alot of tape and makes informed decisions. (Football guy) How much tape do you think Smith watches? According to Sean Jones not much.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Agreed, but there is no doubt Belichick makes the final decisions. He watches alot of tape and makes informed decisions. (Football guy) How much tape do you think Smith watches? According to Sean Jones not much.
First, of course Belichick makes the final calls. That's his job as HC and GM. I said as much. But do you know how much tape he watches vs. how much he uses the reports from his staff and scouts to make those decisions?

Second, should you really take the word of Sean Jones regarding what goes on over on Kirby? When did he ever have access to the inner workings over there? He's never been a Texans' coach or member of the staff. So where is this insider knowledge coming from? He ain't in the bldg and O'Brien is pretty closed mouth so who is his source(s).
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Second, should you really take the word of Sean Jones regarding what goes on over on Kirby? When did he ever have access to the inner workings over there? He's never been a Texans' coach or member of the staff. So where is this insider knowledge coming from? He ain't in the bldg and O'Brien is pretty closed mouth so who is his source(s).
They interviewed him for capologist a hundred years ago.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
First, of course Belichick makes the final calls. That's his job as HC and GM. I said as much. But do you know how much tape he watches vs. how much he uses the reports from his staff and scouts to make those decisions?

Second, should you really take the word of Sean Jones regarding what goes on over on Kirby? When did he ever have access to the inner workings over there? He's never been a Texans' coach or member of the staff. So where is this insider knowledge coming from? He ain't in the bldg and O'Brien is pretty closed mouth so who is his source(s).
In hard knocks Brady said there are very few people that are willing to work as hard as Belichick. I assume that includes watching more film than most. He's a perfectionist who's always looking for an edge. I really liked watching Jimmy Johnson (Who was also a perfectionist) and Belichick going fishing talking football during the offseason on a Football Life. Could you really see Rick Smith being that kina guy? Be honest, and that's what the Texans are up against if the really want to win a SB.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
In hard knocks Brady said there are very few people that are willing to work as hard as Belichick. I assume that includes watching more film than most. He's a perfectionist who's always looking for an edge. I really liked watching Jimmy Johnson (Who was also a perfectionist) and Belichick going fishing talking football during the offseason on a Football Life. Could you really see Rick Smith being that kina guy? Be honest, and that's what the Texans are up against if the really want to win a SB.
How many other Belichicks are out there?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
How many are alowed to have that kind of lattitude?

Newsome/Thompson/Colbert/Loomis/Carroll/Jones

Off of the top of my head.
Again, I think you're overestimating their control. Final say don't mean sole say.... not in any corporation, and all pro teams are corporations
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
In hard knocks Brady said there are very few people that are willing to work as hard as Belichick. I assume that includes watching more film than most. He's a perfectionist who's always looking for an edge. I really liked watching Jimmy Johnson (Who was also a perfectionist) and Belichick going fishing talking football during the offseason on a Football Life. Could you really see Rick Smith being that kina guy? Be honest, and that's what the Texans are up against if the really want to win a SB.
Saw that Football Life about Belichick. It was pretty cool.

But has anyone ever said that Belichick doesn't work hard? I don't recall anyone disputing that.


They key isn't who has absolute control. It's that your HC/GM/scouts have a complete understanding what guys work for your team's philosophy. Hell, most of the guys on your "off the top of my head" list you posted were playing/coaching/evaluating football players when Rick Smith was in grade school. They have earned the latitude they have over many, many years. And they either have the dual HC/GM job (Belichick) or have been partners with their HC's (Newsome, Thompson) for years. You mentioned Pete Carroll. He's not the GM, John Schneider is. Pete brought him in in 2010 when he got hired - just like Kubiak brought in Smith. Are you saying that Carroll overrules his GM on player selection? I think it's that they're on the same page regarding what sort of guys they want.

I think Smith is still trying to figure out what kind of players O'Brien wants. The first year it was smarts and "team guys". This year its speed. What's it going to be next year...? dancing ability? Does anyone here know what kind of offense O'Brien is trying to run? I haven't been smart enough to figure it out. But hey, I'm just a fan.

Maybe that's why our defense is ahead of the offense. RAC knows what he needs to run his defense. He tells Smith and Smith goes after them. (except for Clowney, I think that was McNair :) )

 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Saw that Football Life about Belichick. It was pretty cool.

But has anyone ever said that Belichick doesn't work hard? I don't recall anyone disputing that.


They key isn't who has absolute control. It's that your HC/GM/scouts have a complete understanding what guys work for your team's philosophy. Hell, most of the guys on your "off the top of my head" list you posted were playing/coaching/evaluating football players when Rick Smith was in grade school. They have earned the latitude they have over many, many years. And they either have the dual HC/GM job (Belichick) or have been partners with their HC's (Newsome, Thompson) for years. You mentioned Pete Carroll. He's not the GM, John Schneider is. Pete brought him in in 2010 when he got hired - just like Kubiak brought in Smith. Are you saying that Carroll overrules his GM on player selection? I think it's that they're on the same page regarding what sort of guys they want.

I think Smith is still trying to figure out what kind of players O'Brien wants. The first year it was smarts and "team guys". This year its speed. What's it going to be next year...? dancing ability? Does anyone here know what kind of offense O'Brien is trying to run? I haven't been smart enough to figure it out. But hey, I'm just a fan.

Maybe that's why our defense is ahead of the offense. RAC knows what he needs to run his defense. He tells Smith and Smith goes after them. (except for Clowney, I think that was McNair :) )
This is yr 3 Smith should no what the coaching staff needs by now. IMHO Smith was with Kubiak for 9 yrs did he ever really figure out what Kubiak wanted? Kubiak did say that when he goes in and talks to Elway it's nice to have a GM that knows what he's doing. But hey, Kubiak made the mistake of recommending Smith so in a sense Kubiak doomed his time in Houston with that decision.

Do you think Smith burns the midnight oil like Belichick does? He cant IMHO because he spends most of his time hobknobbing with the McNairs. This is why I'm fairly confident there will be no championships under Rick. He doesn't use his time to the best of his abilities. But looking at this from Smith's perspective he is spending his time correctly, he survived the Kubiak regime and will probably survive the BOB regime. That's good for Rick, but not so good for the on the field product.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
This is yr 3 Smith should no what the coaching staff needs by now. IMHO Smith was with Kubiak for 9 yrs did he ever really figure out what Kubiak wanted? Kubiak did say that when he goes in and talks to Elway it's nice to have a GM that knows what he's doing. But hey, Kubiak made the mistake of recommending Smith so in a sense Kubiak doomed his time in Houston with that decision.

Do you think Smith burns the midnight oil like Belichick does? He cant IMHO because he spends most of his time hobknobbing with the McNairs. This is why I'm fairly confident there will be no championships under Rick. He doesn't use his time to the best of his abilities. But looking at this from Smith's perspective he is spending his time correctly, he survived the Kubiak regime and will probably survive the BOB regime. That's good for Rick, but not so good for the on the field product.
I thought we were having a discussion about how different coaches work. You skipped over all that stuff about the coaches/GMs you mentioned having decades of experience working together.

You just wanted an excuse to rant about Smith. You said you were going to cut that stuff out and would only talk football.
Then again, my bad for enabling you.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
This is yr 3 Smith should no what the coaching staff needs by now. IMHO Smith was with Kubiak for 9 yrs did he ever really figure out what Kubiak wanted? Kubiak did say that when he goes in and talks to Elway it's nice to have a GM that knows what he's doing. But hey, Kubiak made the mistake of recommending Smith so in a sense Kubiak doomed his time in Houston with that decision.

Do you think Smith burns the midnight oil like Belichick does? He cant IMHO because he spends most of his time hobknobbing with the McNairs. This is why I'm fairly confident there will be no championships under Rick. He doesn't use his time to the best of his abilities. But looking at this from Smith's perspective he is spending his time correctly, he survived the Kubiak regime and will probably survive the BOB regime. That's good for Rick, but not so good for the on the field product.
see the sig....
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I thought we were having a discussion about how different coaches work. You skipped over all that stuff about the coaches/GMs you mentioned having decades of experience working together.

You just wanted an excuse to rant about Smith. You said you were going to cut that stuff out and would only talk football.
Then again, my bad for enabling you.
Smith has been here for over a decade and worked with Kubiak for almost a decade until he stabbed Kubiak in the back to save his own skin. I'm going to reply to one more post then I'm out of here, since my thoughts on this subject are well known and no minds are going to be changed.
 


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