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*** Official Battle Red Game Day Thread Patriots @ Texans ***

JCTexan said:
The Saints are doing awful because of their defense... I will take Drew Brees over any other options we have at QB right now.
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No doubt the defense is the chief problem...I'm just speaking to your your 75% fix thing and 75% of their problems aren't b/c of the defense...he's got protection issues as well and JJ had a field day when we played them which is why we were able to dominate him and his offense. His play wasn't enough to overcome it either.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah u do remember Yates overthrew Hopkins for a long TD in the Jets game right? All but 1 TD he threw in both games he started were more about amazing catches Nuk made than awesome throws Yates made.

Bottom line is I know of no qb who is 100% accurate on every ball they throw...even the wide open 1's...Brady wasn't accurate on lots of his throws tonite..that pass he threw to gronk early in the 1st qtr where mercilus fell down wasn't accurate by your standards...the difference is his guys made plays for him...

Nate was able to get both his hands on those passes and was only able to come down with 1 of them...won't even talk about the passes griffin dropped...
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Remember yates making a few of those deep good accurate throws that season he won us our first ever play off game as well.

I don't consider Yates a long term solution but it's worth a shot to see if he's better than the garbage we have out their now.
 
Hoyer is done for the year. Two concussions in last two or three games. He's done.
 
DX-TEX said:
Brees has played pretty damn good this year without a lot of weapons. His defense has been abysmal.

Him alone wont fix everything but he rectifies a lot of the problems.
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Him alone is not rectifying 75% of any problems on this team...saying that means you think we're only a qb away from competing for the playoffs/championship and we're definitely not that.
 
Mr teX said:
Him alone is not rectifying 75% of any problems on this team...saying that means you think we're only a qb away from competing for the playoffs/championship and we're definitely not that.
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I truly feel we are. Our QB today left atleast 14 on the field and directly gave them another 14 on the short field fumbles.
 
Mr teX said:
Him alone is not rectifying 75% of any problems on this team...saying that means you think we're only a qb away from competing for the playoffs/championship and we're definitely not that.
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A great QB can cover the minimal issues with our o line, reduce the drops greatly and help the run game by actually putting some fear of the pass into a defense.

Yes. yes it can. Look at what Brady did tonight. He has a patchwork o line and receivers who would be 4th or 5th options on others teams at 1 & 2

So yes a QB like Brees CAN fix a lot of your problems. If you dont see that in todays NFL I dont know what to tell you
 
EllisUnit said:
Remember yates making a few of those deep good accurate throws that season he won us our first ever play off game as well.

I don't consider Yates a long term solution but it's worth a shot to see if he's better than the garbage we have out their now.
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Yep...I also remember him looking like **** against the panthers that year and in the playoffs against the Ravens too...and that is the fundamental problem with how you're trying to assess him..you only want to talk about the the positive plays he's had and dismiss everything else..forgetting that Yates couldn't even beat out whomever the Falcons have at back up now...like Keenum..like Mallet, you guys don't like to take in the whole picture..
 
DX-TEX said:
A great QB can cover the minimal issues with our o line, reduce the drops greatly and help the run game by actually putting some fear of the pass into a defense.

Yes. yes it can. Look at what Brady did tonight. He has a patchwork o line and receivers who would be 4th or 5th options on others teams at 1 & 2

So yes a QB like Brees CAN fix a lot of your problems. If you dont see that in todays NFL I dont know what to tell you
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Brees can't even fix his own offenses problems...Minimal issues? Dudes were running free unabated to the qb...that's not minimal...we have no run game to protect our qb...that's not minimal either. We have 1 guy we know can make plays for us on the offense.

Yeah let's look at what Brady did tonite...Average numbers...not not even better numbers than what Hoyer did last week against buffalo. Brady's great, but his saving grace is and has always been great game planning/play calling. They've made it their business to keep him protected and he's enjoyed that for the majority of his career. Hell coming into this game was the 1st time in his 13 year career, he's been consistently hit on at least 30% of his snaps... Not a coincidence that in that time they were riding a 2 game losing streak and he was playing like crap...
 
Mr teX said:
Brees can't even fix his own offenses problems...Minimal issues? Dudes were running free unabated to the qb...that's not minimal...we have no run game to protect our qb...that's not minimal either. We have 1 guy we know can make plays for us on the offense.

Yeah let's look at what Brady did tonite...Average numbers...not not even better numbers than what Hoyer did last week against buffalo. Brady's great, but his saving grace is and has always been great game planning/play calling. They've made it their business to keep him protected and he's enjoyed that for the majority of his career. Hell coming into this game was the 1st time in his 13 year career, he's been consistently hit on at least 30% of his snaps... Not a coincidence that in that time they were riding a 2 game losing streak and he was playing like crap...
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The 1 year Brady got hurt, the Pats went 11-5. I think Brady is a great QB, but he has been helped by a coach who has been the greatest of all time. There is no question in my mind that QB is a humongous need for us. Hoyer is a backup QB at best and doesn't have what it takes to make up for a bad offensive line. But our coaching staff was atrocious tonight. How many wildcats can you run before you realize it isn't going to fool anyone? How many sacks are you going to take before you change the playcalling to something quicker?

Our offense has 1 playmaker and a WR at playmaker doesn't make you good. See the Detroit Lions. We need a QB and we need our coach to grow up or find a new coach.
 
EllisUnit said:
I truly feel we are. Our QB today left atleast 14 on the field and directly gave them another 14 on the short field fumbles.
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Couple that with the fact that Newton had an uncharacteristiclly bad day. I mean, Newton hasn't played that bad in I don't know how long. Duane Brown wasn't that good either. I'm just calling it off days, until I know otherwise (but they picked a helluva day to be "off").

I get what Mr teX is saying. All of these drops even when Hoyer is on the money (which is rare) wouldn't be rectified by Brees. A middlin running game wouldn't be helped by Brees.

But I do agree with the pro-Brees crowd that a really good QB can instill confidence in a whole unit. A 36 year old Drew Brees is still miles better than what we have.

And for those who say he wouldn't come here? Remember, he's from Texas. Plus, what other bottom dwelling or middle of the road team can offer Brees more? Most of the bottom dwellers already have a QB they are sold on, and even most middle of the road teams.

Of course New Orleans could make a bid. So could St. Louis, San Fran and Chicago...but I see those teams having much less to offer the likes of Brees.

The Texans FO could really make it happen if they wanted to.
 
Mr teX said:
Yep...I also remember him looking like **** against the panthers that year and in the playoffs against the Ravens too...and that is the fundamental problem with how you're trying to assess him..you only want to talk about the the positive plays he's had and dismiss everything else..forgetting that Yates couldn't even beat out whomever the Falcons have at back up now...like Keenum..like Mallet, you guys don't like to take in the whole picture..
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Please please tell me all the great things Hoyer has done that make him better than Yates. Besides way more opportunities in which he still has done nothing.
 
Mr teX said:
Yeah u do remember Yates overthrew Hopkins for a long TD in the Jets game right? All but 1 TD he threw in both games he started were more about amazing catches Nuk made than awesome throws Yates made.

Bottom line is I know of no qb who is 100% accurate on every ball they throw...even the wide open 1's...Brady wasn't accurate on lots of his throws tonite..that pass he threw to gronk early in the 1st qtr where mercilus fell down wasn't accurate by your standards...the difference is his guys made plays for him...

Nate was able to get both his hands on those passes and was only able to come down with 1 of them...won't even talk about the passes griffin dropped...
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Plus if Hoyer hits nate in stride on both of those they are not contested and are touchdowns. Instead of nate having to stop allowing the 2 defenders to catch up. Let's not forget he did work to get wide open with 5 yards on his defender only to have to stop and wait on the ball. Blame is as much on Hoyer as it is nate.
 
what happened to Blue and Grimes or what did they do to lose all there carries toPOLK who they piss off

and why cant our TE catch a ball and thus why did we throw to them so much this game
 
1. Play calling was terrible, 3rd Qtr. with 9 min. left 4th and 4 to go and you go for it instead of taking the easy field goal against a team that you've been struggling to move the ball against. WTF?
2. O-line has been pretty good lately but last night they were terrible. Hoyer was getting killed and the run game, that they kept going back to when it was obviously not working. Our best run from scrimmage was the FB, the O-line and RB's should be embarrassed.
3. WR and TE's can't hold onto the ball. Not all passes were perfect but when it hits you in the hands catch the ball.
4. Hoyer has a weak arm. Washington had to slow down and wait for the ball to catch up to him. That noodle arm reminds me of Schaub.
5. Effort was terrible as well.
 
Wolf6151 said:
1. Play calling was terrible, 3rd Qtr. with 9 min. left 4th and 4 to go and you go for it instead of taking the easy field goal against a team that you've been struggling to move the ball against. WTF?
2. O-line has been pretty good lately but last night they were terrible. Hoyer was getting killed and the run game, that they kept going back to when it was obviously not working. Our best run from scrimmage was the FB, the O-line and RB's should be embarrassed.
3. WR and TE's can't hold onto the ball. Not all passes were perfect but when it hits you in the hands catch the ball.
4. Hoyer has a weak arm. Washington had to slow down and wait for the ball to catch up to him. That noodle arm reminds me of Schaub.
5. Effort was terrible as well.
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Pretty sure Grimes had the best run of the game.....
 
The Texans are back to doing Texans things. Should have known better than to get sucked in by that 4 game winning streak. I'm off this ship. See y'all around, or not.
 
Norg said:
what happened to Blue and Grimes or what did they do to lose all there carries toPOLK who they piss off

and why cant our TE catch a ball and thus why did we throw to them so much this game
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I'm personally happy that Blue saw 0 carries but here's the break down:

Jonathan Grimes 7 car 53 yards 7.6 avg Long of 37
Chris Polk 11 car 34 yards 3.1 avg Long of 9
Akeem Hunt 1 car 1 yards
 
Back to reality again. Even if somehow we do win the AFC South, all it will mean is another commemorative hat and T shirt.
 
Wolf6151 said:
1. Play calling was terrible, 3rd Qtr. with 9 min. left 4th and 4 to go and you go for it instead of taking the easy field goal against a team that you've been struggling to move the ball against. WTF?
2. O-line has been pretty good lately but last night they were terrible. Hoyer was getting killed and the run game, that they kept going back to when it was obviously not working. Our best run from scrimmage was the FB, the O-line and RB's should be embarrassed.
3. WR and TE's can't hold onto the ball. Not all passes were perfect but when it hits you in the hands catch the ball.
4. Hoyer has a weak arm. Washington had to slow down and wait for the ball to catch up to him. That noodle arm reminds me of Schaub.
5. Effort was terrible as well.
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I wanted us to go for it. I knew we were once they threw for the EZ on 3rd down. FGs were not going to beat the Pats. I'd blame the coaching for the pathetic offense they fielded last night, but not for going for it when it was basically our last chance.
 
Im happy because the Texans are about to unleash the man, the myth, the legend!

35t7cv.jpg


DIVISION TITLE AND WILDCARD WIN OVER THE BENGALS INCOMING!
 
HOU-TEX said:
I wanted us to go for it. I knew we were once they threw for the EZ on 3rd down. FGs were not going to beat the Pats. I'd blame the coaching for the pathetic offense they fielded last night, but not for going for it when it was basically our last chance.
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I believe that the coaches call games differently when the confidence in the offense, mainly the QB, is shot. Going for it there is usually a poor idea, but they obviously didn't feel that Hoyer or the offense would be able to get us into that position many more times. Running the wildcat is a prime example as well. There's no need to run the wildcat on 3rd and 3 if you have confidence in your QB.
 
TexansSeminole said:
I believe that the coaches call games differently when the confidence in the offense, mainly the QB, is shot. Going for it there is usually a poor idea, but they obviously didn't feel that Hoyer or the offense would be able to get us into that position many more times. Running the wildcat is a prime example as well. There's no need to run the wildcat on 3rd and 3 if you have confidence in your QB.
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Confidence...or lack of confidence in Hoyer has nothing to do with it.

Conventional wisdom says that they take the points & keep playing the field position game on the ensuing kickoff if they truly didn't have confidence in Hoyer. You don't go for it on 4th & 3 & risk giving your opponent...much less THAT opponent a field shorter than 80 yds.

Aside from that they started running the wildcat with Yates in the Jets game & the main reason for that is b/c they needed a gimmick and/or some kind of way to get the run game going which had been putrid up to that point in the season. Now that every team expects it, the gimmick of using it has worn off & we're seeing the same results we saw in the run game pre-wildcat.
 
Mr teX said:
Confidence...or lack of confidence in Hoyer has nothing to do with it.

Conventional wisdom says that they take the points & keep playing the field position game on the ensuing kickoff if they truly didn't have confidence in Hoyer. You don't go for it on 4th & 3 & risk giving your opponent...much less THAT opponent a field shorter than 80 yds.

Aside from that they started running the wildcat with Yates in the Jets game & the main reason for that is b/c they needed a gimmick and/or some kind of way to get the run game going which had been putrid up to that point in the season. Now that every team expects it, the gimmick of using it has worn off & we're seeing the same results we saw in the run game pre-wildcat.
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The run game isn't in a vacuum, it's dependent on how dangerous you are in the pass game.
 
I'm ready to just lose out the rest of year instead of making playoffs as a 500 team. Let the colts lose in first round instead of us and up our draft slot.
 
pirbroke said:
I'm ready to just lose out the rest of year instead of making playoffs as a 500 team. Let the colts lose in first round instead of us and up our draft slot.
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Setting up nicely for a "nobody believed in us" story.
 
Pats showed everyone a recipe to slow our offence down even more.pit your #1 cornerback on Washington and have your #2 cover nuke with safety help.
 
Wolf said:
Pats showed everyone a recipe to slow our offence down even more.pit your #1 cornerback on Washington and have your #2 cover nuke with safety help.
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This was not special for the Texans, the Pats do it regularly if most of the time.
 
TexansSeminole said:
The run game isn't in a vacuum, it's dependent on how dangerous you are in the pass game.
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not really...you can be a beast in the run game with no pass game & vice versa. If OB & co. didn't have any confidence in Hoyer, not only would they have taken the fg there & continued to play the field position game, they wouldn't have chosen a pass play to pick up that 1st on 4th & 3 there. Plus it was what 9 minutes left in the 3rd..plenty of time to continue to try to stay within the game plan and play the field position game.

What i think happened is they were trying to jumpstart our anemic offense to get a TD at that point. They knew that a TD there allows them to stay within the gameplan & holds NE back from blitzing & getting after Hoyer...which is exactly what happened when we failed to convert & subsequently fell behind 3 scores & NE knew we had to pass to get back in it at that point.
 
Wolf said:
Pats showed everyone a recipe to slow our offence down even more.pit your #1 cornerback on Washington and have your #2 cover nuke with safety help.
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:spit:

Belichick: Ok guys, today we need to put together a game plan to "slow down" Brian Hoyer."

After 15 minutes of laughter amongst Bill & his defensive staff.

Belichick: (wiping tears from his eyes) ok... on to Tennessee.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I wanted us to go for it. I knew we were once they threw for the EZ on 3rd down. FGs were not going to beat the Pats. I'd blame the coaching for the pathetic offense they fielded last night, but not for going for it when it was basically our last chance.
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9 min. left in the 3rd quarter, that's 24 min. of game time left to play, is not our last chance. If it had been 5 min. left in the 4th, I could understand.
 
Having a few Wrs and TEs that can hold on to the ball would really help this football team. I'm watching the game right now and there have been 4 or 5 catchabal balls that were dropped. I'm just in the 3rd quarter. And they were all at important moments during the game.
 
DocBar said:
Having a few Wrs and TEs that can hold on to the ball would really help this football team. I'm watching the game right now and there have been 4 or 5 catchabal balls that were dropped. I'm just in the 3rd quarter. And they were all at important moments during the game.
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A few of those I put on Hoyer, they were catchall but contested. If he had put the ball where it should of been (in front of our wide open reciever) it would not of been contested, caught and most likely a TD.
 
thunderkyss said:
:spit:

Belichick: Ok guys, today we need to put together a game plan to "slow down" Brian Hoyer."

After 15 minutes of laughter amongst Bill & his defensive staff.

Belichick: (wiping tears from his eyes) ok... on to Tennessee.
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Reasoni said even more
 
When Hoyer missed a wide open Griffin for a 5 yard gain and a 1st down on our own 12, I thought, "Oh no! That's the play that will cost the game." Turned out the Expatriots would have stomped us anyway. But that doesn't excuse the QB.
 
DocBar said:
Having a few Wrs and TEs that can hold on to the ball would really help this football team. I'm watching the game right now and there have been 4 or 5 catchabal balls that were dropped. I'm just in the 3rd quarter. And they were all at important moments during the game.
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How many of those passes dropped did you see behind wrs, underthrown , or even taking great catches to make a easy catch? Accuracy is not completion %. Washington was butt naked and by the time hoyer saw him and threw it, nate had to slow down and the play became heavily contested. Its not often you beat a guy by 5 yds in nfl, but thats how far washington was in front of butler. Thats a walk in td that turned into a incomplete pass. Any decent qb makes that pass. Hell I saw AJ McCarron make that same pass to Green for a big play, yet your hand picked guy cant make that easy pass?
 
leebigeztx said:
How many of those passes dropped did you see behind wrs, underthrown , or even taking great catches to make a easy catch? Accuracy is not completion %. Washington was butt naked and by the time hoyer saw him and threw it, nate had to slow down and the play became heavily contested. Its not often you beat a guy by 5 yds in nfl, but thats how far washington was in front of butler. Thats a walk in td that turned into a incomplete pass. Any decent qb makes that pass. Hell I saw AJ McCarron make that same pass to Green for a big play, yet your hand picked guy cant make that easy pass?
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I agree, people keep talking about the drops, I would say the misses by Hoyer had just as big of an impact.
 
leebigeztx said:
How many of those passes dropped did you see behind wrs, underthrown , or even taking great catches to make a easy catch? Accuracy is not completion %. Washington was butt naked and by the time hoyer saw him and threw it, nate had to slow down and the play became heavily contested. Its not often you beat a guy by 5 yds in nfl, but thats how far washington was in front of butler. Thats a walk in td that turned into a incomplete pass. Any decent qb makes that pass. Hell I saw AJ McCarron make that same pass to Green for a big play, yet your hand picked guy cant make that easy pass?
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I'm just glad the whole country got to see Hoyer work his mediocrity magic. I have friends always saying I'm too harsh on Hoyer. I watched the game last week in New Orleans with some fans from Buffalo who said they'd straight up trade Tyrod Taylor for Hoyer. All they see are numbers, and have no knowledge of his fatal flaws.

How does anyone settle on this guy over a prospect like Bortles? Now that ship has sailed, and our current trajectory toward mediocrity purgatory gives us no chance at picking up a QB of that potential. Just terrible decision making. ******* awful.
 
leebigeztx said:
How many of those passes dropped did you see behind wrs, underthrown , or even taking great catches to make a easy catch? Accuracy is not completion %. Washington was butt naked and by the time hoyer saw him and threw it, nate had to slow down and the play became heavily contested. Its not often you beat a guy by 5 yds in nfl, but thats how far washington was in front of butler. Thats a walk in td that turned into a incomplete pass. Any decent qb makes that pass. Hell I saw AJ McCarron make that same pass to Green for a big play, yet your hand picked guy cant make that easy pass?
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I understand what you're saying, but I saw Griffin drop two perfectly thrown balls that would've been 1st downs and Nate Washington drop 2 more that could've been better throws, but a good WR would make those catches 99% of the time. Hoyer is most definitely not my "hand picked guy", but I'm not going to place every ounce of blame on him for every loss or poor offensive performance. There were just as many balls thrown that could've been TD's had they been 1 or two yards deeper. BTW, I'd much rather have McCarron as the Texans QB than Hoyer.
 
Wolf6151 said:
9 min. left in the 3rd quarter, that's 24 min. of game time left to play, is not our last chance. If it had been 5 min. left in the 4th, I could understand.
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Agree to disagree. The offense needed a pick me up. We needed to get something going rather than killing our defense. Scoring on the 3rd down fade or converting that 4th down would've helped. 3 points, not so much
 
EllisUnit said:
I agree, people keep talking about the drops, I would say the misses by Hoyer had just as big of an impact.
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I blame both parts. both didn't do their jobs. they get paid millions to catch the ball. fact that they can't make catch unless its perfect pass makes me sick. wr and te has to make plays against good team like pats.
 
Hard to run or pass when your offensive line cant pick up a blitz or basic inside stunts. All 5 of them, hell include the TE's in that were straight up punked by the Pats DLine.
 
Texans55HaveFuN said:
I blame both parts. both didn't do their jobs. they get paid millions to catch the ball. fact that they can't make catch unless its perfect pass makes me sick. wr and te has to make plays against good team like pats.
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Hoyer gets paid millions to throw the ball to where his guys going to be, not where he already was...
 
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