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Offensive Line - Sacks Allowed (2015)

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Went back and re-watched game tapes for this season to see how the pass protection was. Now, note ahead of time that I don't have enough time to go back and watch every snap of every game, so I have no idea who gave up how many pressures over the entire season. I was able to go back and review every sack though and this is what I came up with.

*Half sacks are where two guys screwed up. For example, there was one where Aboushi and Blue combined to blow a blitz pickup.

LT
Duane Brown - 3 Sacks Allowed
Chris Clark - 1 Sack Allowed

LG
Xavier Su'a-Filo - 2 Sacks Allowed
Oday Aboushi - 1.5 Sacks Allowed
Jeff Adams - 1 Sack Allowed

C
Ben Jones - 2 Sacks Allowed

RG
Brandon Brooks - 3 Sacks Allowed
Derek Newton - 1.5 Sacks Allowed

RT
Derek Newton - 5 Sacks Allowed
Chris Clark - 3.5 Sacks Allowed

RB
Alfred Blue - 0.5 Sacks Allowed

Total Sacks Allowed
Newton - 6.5
Clark - 4.5
Brown - 3
Brooks - 3
Su'a-Filo - 2
Jones - 2
Aboushi - 1.5
Adams - 1
Blue - 0.5


**Notice that the blockers gave up 24 Sacks (by my subjective judgement obviously). However, we allowed 39 Sacks over 17 games this year. So who accounts for the other 15 Sacks? That would be our QB's, who held the damn ball way too long on many occasions this year.

They did this by...
a) Standing clueless in the pocket and not getting the ball out on time
b) Eating a blitz because they missed their hot read
c) Scrambling out of the pocket yet still taking a sack instead of throwing it away (it's not grounding outside the tackle box, throw the damn ball away)

QB Sacks Accounted For
Hoyer - 7
Yates - 4
Mallett - 3
Weeden - 1

Total Times Sacked
Hoyer - 25
Yates - 5
Mallett - 4
Weeden - 2

*Hoyer fumbled on roughly 25% of his sacks. His ball security is awful.

**It's hard to blame Yates for being the culprit on most of his own sacks seeing as he was signed right off the damn street.

***I think it's pretty clear that we still need an upgrade at RT. Giving Newton that extension last year was vintage Rick Smith (i.e. idiotic).
 

dream_team

All Pro
Newton is inconsistent. In 2014, he played really well, and he deserved being extended. He did regress this past season. I wonder if it had anything with him being moved around the line so much to cover for injuries? In either case, his contract isn't too bad, and he's cut-able after next season.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Newton is inconsistent. In 2014, he played really well, and he deserved being extended. He did regress this past season. I wonder if it had anything with him being moved around the line so much to cover for injuries? In either case, his contract isn't too bad, and he's cut-able after next season.
He was bad his first 3 years and then good in his contract year. Then he reverted back to bad. This is why you don't give multi-year extensions to guys who have only performed in contract years.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
We did try to upgrade him. But Brennan Williams suffered a career ending injury in OTAs, and Quesenberry got cancer.
Williams was already injured when we drafted him. That was a complete failure by the GM. Quessenberry was a 6th rounder. Never once brought in a veteran to compete with him.

He was handed the starting job as a second year player and was an absolute turnstile over the next 2 years. Never once brought in competition for his job. Had a solid year his contract year and got a 4-year extension. Then proceeded to be a turnstile again the next year.

The guy has never been in a legitimate position battle despite being a below average starter 3 out of 4 years. That's a GM failure.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Williams was already injured when we drafted him. That was a complete failure by the GM. Quessenberry was a 6th rounder. Never once brought in a veteran to compete with him.

He was handed the starting job as a second year player and was an absolute turnstile over the next 2 years. Never once brought in competition for his job. Had a solid year his contract year and got a 4-year extension. Then proceeded to be a turnstile again the next year.

The guy has never been in a legitimate position battle despite being a below average starter 3 out of 4 years. That's a GM failure.
1st, I appreciate your work but will point out your comment about Williams being hurt when drafted is not correct and I and others have historically provided info to correct that view. He was healed from college injury and had another injury in off season after being signed. Also to be fair, Newton played most of his first contract injured. He played often when he probably should have been on bench. 2014 was his most healthy season and he played 2015 with an injured elbow; I am not saying that impacted his giving up sacks. I think the contract was a good one.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Williams was already injured when we drafted him. That was a complete failure by the GM. Quessenberry was a 6th rounder. Never once brought in a veteran to compete with him.

He was handed the starting job as a second year player and was an absolute turnstile over the next 2 years. Never once brought in competition for his job. Had a solid year his contract year and got a 4-year extension. Then proceeded to be a turnstile again the next year.

The guy has never been in a legitimate position battle despite being a below average starter 3 out of 4 years. That's a GM failure.
Like what badboy already said, Williams was not already injured when drafted.

In 2011, he was a 7th round rookie that didn't start. Winston was still around, so not sure why you're counting this year?

In 2012, the guy that was actually supposed to start at RT was Rashad Butler. He was our swing tackle for 4 seasons, and even started 4 games the previous season for Duane. He played well as the swing and I honestly thought Butler was going to be a fine RT. I admit, I was wrong. I think he got hurt and that's when Newton took over at RT. They also brought in veteran Ryan Harris. Newton wasn't supposed to start in 2012, so he was sort of thrown into the fire.

The next season, they drafted Quessenberry & Williams. They also still had Ryan Harris as that veteran to play RT if needed.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Went back and re-watched game tapes for this season to see how the pass protection was. Now, note ahead of time that I don't have enough time to go back and watch every snap of every game, so I have no idea who gave up how many pressures over the entire season. I was able to go back and review every sack though and this is what I came up with.

*Half sacks are where two guys screwed up. For example, there was one where Aboushi and Blue combined to blow a blitz pickup.

LT
Duane Brown - 3 Sacks Allowed
Chris Clark - 1 Sack Allowed

LG
Xavier Su'a-Filo - 2 Sacks Allowed
Oday Aboushi - 1.5 Sacks Allowed
Jeff Adams - 1 Sack Allowed

C
Ben Jones - 2 Sacks Allowed

RG
Brandon Brooks - 3 Sacks Allowed
Derek Newton - 1.5 Sacks Allowed

RT
Derek Newton - 5 Sacks Allowed
Chris Clark - 3.5 Sacks Allowed

RB
Alfred Blue - 0.5 Sacks Allowed

Total Sacks Allowed
Newton - 6.5
Clark - 4.5
Brown - 3
Brooks - 3
Su'a-Filo - 2
Jones - 2
Aboushi - 1.5
Adams - 1
Blue - 0.5


**Notice that the blockers gave up 24 Sacks (by my subjective judgement obviously). However, we allowed 39 Sacks over 17 games this year. So who accounts for the other 15 Sacks? That would be our QB's, who held the damn ball way too long on many occasions this year.

They did this by...
a) Standing clueless in the pocket and not getting the ball out on time
b) Eating a blitz because they missed their hot read
c) Scrambling out of the pocket yet still taking a sack instead of throwing it away (it's not grounding outside the tackle box, throw the damn ball away)

QB Sacks Accounted For
Hoyer - 7
Yates - 4
Mallett - 3
Weeden - 1

Total Times Sacked
Hoyer - 25
Yates - 5
Mallett - 4
Weeden - 2

*Hoyer fumbled on roughly 25% of his sacks. His ball security is awful.

**It's hard to blame Yates for being the culprit on most of his own sacks seeing as he was signed right off the damn street.

***I think it's pretty clear that we still need an upgrade at RT. Giving Newton that extension last year was vintage Rick Smith (i.e. idiotic).
Newt might be better suited to play inside at Guard, and since he's under contract perhaps he should be moved to RG, and then we'd release Brandon Brooks who is now a FA
and then we look to the Draft or FA for our new RT.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Newt might be better suited to play inside at Guard, and since he's under contract perhaps he should be moved to RG, and then we'd release Brandon Brooks who is now a FA
and then we look to the Draft or FA for our new RT.
no way no how do we let Brooks go unless he is offered a ridiculous offer to go elsewhere
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
Wasn't q drafted to be a center guard? Hadn't we all talked him up to be Myers replacement?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Wasn't q drafted to be a center guard? Hadn't we all talked him up to be Myers replacement?
IIRC it was never stated by team what position he would play. Most said he would be a good OG but I and others thought he could play OT.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Newt might be better suited to play inside at Guard, and since he's under contract perhaps he should be moved to RG, and then we'd release Brandon Brooks who is now a FA
and then we look to the Draft or FA for our new RT.
If he's a FA, I don't think it's necessary to release him. Just don't re-sign him. Now whether that is a good idea or not is a different matter.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
If we draft a QB in the first round, will it be OB's decision or management forcing the issue. But regardless, there will be pressure to start any first round QB his rookie season.

It is questionable whether D Brown will be ready to go opening day. If we don't resign Brooks, that will be another question mark on the Oline. RT has been shown to be the weakest position on the Oline as regards giving up sacks.

Another David Carr rookie season for our new QB?

I've mentioned previously that I'd draft Oline in rounds one and two before possibly drafting QB in the third.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
If we draft a QB in the first round, will it be OB's decision or management forcing the issue. But regardless, there will be pressure to start any first round QB his rookie season.

It is questionable whether D Brown will be ready to go opening day. If we don't resign Brooks, that will be another question mark on the Oline. RT has been shown to be the weakest position on the Oline as regards giving up sacks.

Another David Carr rookie season for our new QB?

I've mentioned previously that I'd draft Oline in rounds one and two before possibly drafting QB in the third.
So you'd throw a lesser QB in the fire with a rookie OT protecting him and expect better results? Unless you acquire another retread QB and hope he can handle it better. My choice would be to get a vet QB (Glennon), a stud RB (Ellliott), and then a young QB in the second (Coker?) in the second and a good OT (Haeg/Murphy) in the third.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
If he's a FA, I don't think it's necessary to release him. Just don't re-sign him. Now whether that is a good idea or not is a different matter.
Yes correct, thanks, that's what I really meant. There is a concern by some that he will be offered big bucks in FA by a team with ample cap and most folks seem to lean towards keeping Jones over Brooks if it comes down to a decision to choose between the two of them.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
So you'd throw a lesser QB in the fire with a rookie OT protecting him and expect better results? Unless you acquire another retread QB and hope he can handle it better. My choice would be to get a vet QB (Glennon), a stud RB (Ellliott), and then a young QB in the second (Coker?) in the second and a good OT (Haeg/Murphy) in the third.
Denver and Arizonia both have done pretty well with retread QB's.

I like Glennon,but he won't be free. My choice is Weeden and Savage, going into training camp.

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward not drafting a QB. He would need snaps in TC and I want those snaps going to the two QB's going into the season with, although I would sign a third QB to go to the PS. I'm sure I might change my mind, again.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Denver and Arizonia both have done pretty well with retread QB's.

I like Glennon,but he won't be free. My choice is Weeden and Savage, going into training camp.

The more I think about it, the more I lean toward not drafting a QB. He would need snaps in TC and I want those snaps going to the two QB's going into the season with, although I would sign a third QB to go to the PS. I'm sure I might change my mind, again.
I don't consider Manning a retread. Not really Palmer either, at least not in the Hoyer/Yates/Weeden mold. Glennon might not be free but it won't cost much. And not drafting a QB because he might take snaps in TC is silly
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't consider Manning a retread. Not really Palmer either, at least not in the Hoyer/Yates/Weeden mold. Glennon might not be free but it won't cost much. And not drafting a QB because he might take snaps in TC is silly
A good talent evaluator should know during OTA's and mini camp if a rookie QB has grasped the system well enough to earn snaps with the 1st team. I'm not at all positive that anyone on the Texans staff is a good judge of talent at the QB position.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I am expecting the latter to happen.
we will have money to sign him regardless if they want him & they should. Aboushi at starter is not something I am comfortable with. I guess Ben Jones could move to RG but I did not like him on the left. How Mancz returns from knee injury could be looked at.
 
we will have money to sign him regardless if they want him & they should. Aboushi at starter is not something I am comfortable with. I guess Ben Jones could move to RG but I did not like him on the left. How Mancz returns from knee injury could be looked at.
Not disagreeing that the team will have available cap space to resign Brooks. I just don't think they will value him as highly as other teams.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Not disagreeing that the team will have available cap space to resign Brooks. I just don't think they will value him as highly as other teams.
Which shouldn't be surprising. Brooks isn't a pro-bowl level player right now but he's probably in the next tier below that. Just like Glover Quin was when we let him walk. We have a history of letting homegrown guys like that walk so we can make much wiser purchases like Ed Reed and Ahman Green.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
Brooks is an automatic resign if it's within our power. Not great but better then average. Newton was an underperformer and brown won't be himself for maybe half the season.

Retain a vet swing tackle (who replaced brown- he did fine) and draft another tackle in the top 3 rounds.

If Newton doesn't get his sh*t together next year we have options and can cut.
 
Which shouldn't be surprising. Brooks isn't a pro-bowl level player right now but he's probably in the next tier below that. Just like Glover Quin was when we let him walk. We have a history of letting homegrown guys like that walk so we can make much wiser purchases like Ed Reed and Ahman Green.
I think it is more of the chance that teams lush with cap space will over pay for Brooks. I have no problem with the team letting him go under those circumstances, which I feel is different than the Quinn situation.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

these guys also offer some data to sift through and toss around. By sheer numbers you could say that the Texans line is ... mediocre. Continuity and another year as a unit I would think would only benefit them, and I dont view the OL in such dire straits that you waste high picks on a lineman or that you couldnt replace via free agency.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Only in the Texans universe does a guy like Newton get a fat contract and a guy like Brooks is allowed to walk. So yeah, I could see that happening..
I can just picture ANYONE telling Brooks he's NOT ALLOWED to walk. He's under contract or he isn't. End of story.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
I can just picture ANYONE telling Brooks he's NOT ALLOWED to walk. He's under contract or he isn't. End of story.
That's true, he's allowed to walk. What bah means is that only would the Texans give Newton all that money and not offer Brooks a competitive contract.

We need to sign Brooks badly. We can't afford to have more holes to fill or weak players to replace on the offensive line. He's our best offensive lineman with Duane Brown and if Brown can't come back 100%, he very well could be our best offensive lineman next year, assuming we sign him.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

these guys also offer some data to sift through and toss around. By sheer numbers you could say that the Texans line is ... mediocre. Continuity and another year as a unit I would think would only benefit them, and I dont view the OL in such dire straits that you waste high picks on a lineman or that you couldnt replace via free agency.
They're a line picked almost entirely by a different HC for a different "system." This HC either needs to get his own line or adapt his "system" whatever that is.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
The best thing Newton & Brooks have going for them is lack of competition as we have basically zilch behind them. Efforts to deepen the roster like B. Williams and Quessenberry did not go as hoped for. Aboushi and Clark and perhaps Adams were backups with minimal chance of starting other than 2-3 games. We just never seem to catch up with our starters to allow depth to be trained. For years we have skated by on Oline and now Brown may not return and we are ill prepared. Same could be said for Foster.
 

dream_team

All Pro
I think it is more of the chance that teams lush with cap space will over pay for Brooks. I have no problem with the team letting him go under those circumstances, which I feel is different than the Quinn situation.
Yup. Similar to our past RG, Briesel.

I feel confident we'll re-sign Brooks.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Yup. Similar to our past RG, Briesel.

I feel confident we'll re-sign Brooks.
I don't know that we're moving people off the ball like O'b would like. I thought we'd see more zone stretches, where Brooks' athleticism would be a plus.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did let Brooks go. Newton too.
 

TexansSeminole

Hall of Fame
I don't know that we're moving people off the ball like O'b would like. I thought we'd see more zone stretches, where Brooks' athleticism would be a plus.

I wouldn't be surprised if we did let Brooks go. Newton too.
We save $0 for cutting Newton, so we won't be cutting him. He's not starter material IMO but he's depth that makes no sense to cut.

Letting Brooks walk would be crazy stupid. I'll understand if someone gives him top 3 money, but we better plan on resigning him.

I get the feeling that you are about to go on one of your contrarian view streaks TK.
 
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thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I'm not saying I want them to cut Brooks or Newton. It makes sense that another year together would improve the lines performance in the run game.

I just said I wouldn't be surprised. I was surprised when we cut Fitzpatrick to sign Hoyer for more money. I'm sure O'Brien will continue to surprise me as he continues to build the team he wants.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I'm not saying I want them to cut Brooks or Newton. It makes sense that another year together would improve the lines performance in the run game.

I just said I wouldn't be surprised. I was surprised when we cut Fitzpatrick to sign Hoyer for more money. I'm sure O'Brien will continue to surprise me as he continues to build the team he wants.
Actually, they traded Fitz. Amazing what hindsight shows you.
 

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
I'm not saying I want them to cut Brooks or Newton. It makes sense that another year together would improve the lines performance in the run game.

I just said I wouldn't be surprised. I was surprised when we cut Fitzpatrick to sign Hoyer for more money. I'm sure O'Brien will continue to surprise me as he continues to build the team he wants.
Again, considering that Newton's 2016 base salary is completely guaranteed (a situation which wasn't the case with Fitzpatrick - even if you had been correct about him getting cut), surprised is too mild a word for what your reaction should be if the Texans were to cut Newton.
 


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