Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

O'Brien vs. Kubiak

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Why did he lose Gaffney, who went on to have a few very productive yrs with the Pats? For that matter why in 8 yrs couldn't RS find a better WR2 than Walter?
1. Money (due to his draft slot at 33)
2. Gaffney was already losing snaps to Bradford.
3. The Eagles cut him, too, you know.
4. Gaffney had just 11 catches in 2006 and 36 catches in 2007

..........................

And like I said, let's not worry about year 2 and later yet.
We'll get there.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
A team that had won 27 games is not devoided of talents as a team that had won 18 games.
I don't see how you can even dispute that fact.
1-15 in JJ's 1st yr should tell you of the talent level he inherited. But it wont.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
1. Money (due to his draft slot at 33)
2. Gaffney was already losing snaps to Bradford.
3. The Eagles cut him, too, you know.
4. Gaffney had just 11 catches in 2006 and 36 catches in 2007
Why?

Could it be due to coaching he didn't receive here that he got in Foxboro?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
What I meant is that they can use the money for Carr to pay for Brees in 2006, with leftover carried forward to pay Brees in the future years.
That had absolutely nothing to do with Kubiak's coaching ability other than he had to agree to try to coach up Carr in 2006 (at which he failed)... the Texans never had a realistic shot at Brees
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
A team that had won 27 games is not devoided of talents as a team that had won 18 games.
I don't see how you can even dispute that fact.
1st of all, that’s not fact. You’ve routinely bagged on BoB b/c he took over a more talented team than Kubiak yet Kubiak had just come off a 2-14 season with that same more talented team. Stop moving the goal posts. Just b/c they’d only won 18 games in the 4 years prior doesn’t mean that a better coach couldn’t have won a few more with that same talent Capers had. Matter fact, didn’t Kubiak do just that after he took over from Dom Capers?

Once again, you come with all these excuses for Kubiak that u fail to apply across the board when it comes to BoB and that exposes your bias from the jump.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
1st of all, that’s not fact. You’ve routinely bagged on BoB b/c he took over a more talented team than Kubiak yet Kubiak had just come off a 2-14 season with that same more talented team. Stop moving the goal posts. Just b/c they’d only won 18 games in the 4 years prior doesn’t mean that a better coach couldn’t have won a few more with that same talent Capers had. Matter fact, didn’t Kubiak do just that after he took over from Dom Capers?

Once again, you come with all these excuses for Kubiak that u fail to apply across the board when it comes to BoB and that exposes your bias from the jump.
No, Kubiak did not inherited a talented team.
Your post doesn't even make sense.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
That had absolutely nothing to do with Kubiak's coaching ability other than he had to agree to try to coach up Carr in 2006 (at which he failed)... the Texans never had a realistic shot at Brees
Carr was already locked in to the contract.
Kubiak had no choice.
He minimized Carr's mistakes as much as possible.
The guy had lost too much confidence already.
With Kubiak's track record of utilizing QBs, there's not even a debate on that end.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Goff was 0-7 and everybody on that FO and HC still pegged him as a starting QB.
And he lost those games big time, too.
Yeah, but he should've won alot of those games because if you're correct Kubiak had a really talented team. So either you're correct Case was a good QB and Kubiak sucked or Kubiak did a good job and Case wasn't a capable NFL backup QB.

Which is it?
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Carr was already locked in to the contract.
Kubiak had no choice.

He minimized Carr's mistakes as much as possible.
The guy had lost too much confidence already.
With Kubiak's track record of utilizing QBs, there's not even a debate on that end.
You sure are flip-flopping a lot today. Stop using Carr to bolster your claim that Kubiak was a better HC
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but he should've won alot of those games because if you're correct Kubiak had a really talented team. So either you're correct Case was a good QB and Kubiak sucked or Kubiak did a good job and Case wasn't a capable NFL backup QB.

Which is it?
Yeah, but he should've won alot of those games because if you're correct Kubiak had a really talented team. So either you're correct Case was a good QB and Kubiak sucked or Kubiak did a good job and Case wasn't a capable NFL backup QB.

Which is it?
What is your definition of a backup QB?

A guy that can manage a game.
You hope the running game, the defense, and the ST help the guy to win the game.
Keenum did that.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
You sure are flip-flopping a lot today. Stop using Carr to bolster your claim that Kubiak was a better HC
Flip flop what?
Where?
How?

Everybody already knew that Carr was done as a starter.

And the QB was only part of the equation that Kubiak had to solve.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but he should've won alot of those games because if you're correct Kubiak had a really talented team. So either you're correct Case was a good QB and Kubiak sucked or Kubiak did a good job and Case wasn't a capable NFL backup QB.

Which is it?
But you're getting ahead again.

We're still in year one.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
What is your definition of a backup QB?

A guy that can manage a game.
You hope the running game, the defense, and the ST help the guy to win the game.
Keenum did that.
A QB that can take a talented team (Your words, I disagree) and atleast go 4-4.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yeah, but he should've won alot of those games because if you're correct Kubiak had a really talented team. So either you're correct Case was a good QB and Kubiak sucked or Kubiak did a good job and Case wasn't a capable NFL backup QB.

Which is it?
And let me remind you that Peyton Manning was 3-13 as a rookie, throwing for 26 TDs vs 28 Ints
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
A QB that can take a talented team (Your words, I disagree) and atleast go 4-4.
Plenty of talented teams can have a down year.
See the Packers 2017 and 18 (They were 12-4, 10-6, 10-6 the previous 3 years).
See the Colts in 2011. What were their records ten-twelve years before that?
Look at Rivers and the Chargers in 2015, 16, and 19
The Eagles in 2012
The Cowboys in 2015
The Vikings in 2010, 2011
The Falcons in 2014
And on and on
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
And let me remind you that Peyton Manning was 3-13 as a rookie, throwing for 26 TDs vs 28 Ints
What does Manning have to do with anything, you're reaching.

If the team was as talented as you think it was then Kubiak/Case if they were as good as you think they are shouldn't have gone 0-8.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Plenty of talented teams can have a down year.
See the Packers 2017 and 18 (They were 12-4, 10-6, 10-6 the previous 3 years).
Not with a great HC (your claim) and an above avg backup QB. (Your claim) Heck, one of Kubiak's relatives is on this MB and he wouldn't even make the claims you're making.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Not with a great HC (your claim) and an above avg backup QB. (Your claim) Heck, one of Kubiak's relatives is on this MB and he wouldn't even make the claims you're making.
Where did I say Kubiak was a great HC with the Texans?
I said he's at worst mediocre.
It is O'Brien that was below mediocre.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
What does Manning have to do with anything, you're reaching.

If the team was as talented as you think it was then Kubiak/Case if they were as good as you think they are shouldn't have gone 0-8.
Rookie QB not in a good situation can fail, or does not show good results.
It's not an indication of how he played.
You only use numbers when you see fit.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Let me rephrase that.

As good a HC as you think he was.
Let me repeat for you.
Kubiak was a mediocre thereabout with the Texans.
But that was because he had to dig the team out of a big hole.
When you're in such a big hole, it takes a long time to build up enough depth.

At any rate, I think I will be out for now.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No, Kubiak did not inherited a talented team.
Your post doesn't even make sense.
Pay attention. I never said Kubiak inherited a TALENTED team. I said that he won more games his initial season with the TALENT that Capers went 2-14 with the year prior.

This isn’t golf bro and there are many reasons why a team doesn’t win as many games as their talent says they should...as u should know going by Kubiak’s 2-14 season. not enough talent is just 1 of those reasons. All that is to say that your whole sad argument stating that a team that won a few less games in a 4 year span than another is more “devoid” of talent is just your blanket excuse for Kubiak and why his ass after 6 years was still scuffling to make us relevant.

As has been stated, he had the core of his 2011 and 2012 teams in tact within 3 years of his tenure here. So why then did it take another 2 years before we became relevant? Why then did we have to damn near bottom out in 2010 at 6-10 before we finally break through with this apparently superior HC?

No excuse u can come up with will ever be able to explain that away.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Rookie QB not in a good situation can fail, or does not show good results.
It's not an indication of how he played.
You only use numbers when you see fit.
LMAO, this is as good as you can do?

If the team was that talented they would've carried Case like they carried Yates. (Both rookies) Are you saying Yates was a better QB as a rookie than Keenum was?

You've used all kinds of numbers in this thread. the only numbers I've used are the ones that matter. HC records and 2-14/0-8.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Let me repeat for you.
Kubiak was a mediocre thereabout with the Texans.
But that was because he had to dig the team out of a big hole.
When you're in such a big hole, it takes a long time to build up enough depth.

At any rate, I think I will be out for now.
Coaches do it in a year or two all of the time. It may not be easy or a guarantee, but it happens. Kubiak went 8-8 like twice after going 6-10 which was 3 years. How was that not enough time? He then went 9-7 and then reverted back to 6-10 in year 5 which normally would have gotten almost any HC fired, but we all know the history of this organization which is why OB is still here as well.

So the history of what took place with the team completely contradicts this entire paragraph about the big hole being so long to rebuild on. To suggest that 6 years is what it has to take like it did for Kubiak is one of the worst and disingenuous arguments you could make knowing the parity of this league and the history of HC's turning teams around time wise.

And let me remind you that Peyton Manning was 3-13 as a rookie, throwing for 26 TDs vs 28 Ints
Completely irrelevant to anything in this discussion. Tom Brady also led his team to a SB in his first year of playing around that same time. Big Ben went 15-1 as a rookie. There are all types of strong rookie seasons people could use as counter examples. The Texans didn't ask much of the QB that year any way. It was lights out defense and hand the ball off to Foster.
 
Last edited:

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Deflecting an argument is sure-fired not the way of a science man.

I've been quite disappointed with you, CNND.

76Texan John
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Pay attention. I never said Kubiak inherited a TALENTED team. I said that he won more games his initial season with the TALENT that Capers went 2-14 with the year prior.

This isn’t golf bro and there are many reasons why a team doesn’t win as many games as their talent says they should...as u should know going by Kubiak’s 2-14 season. not enough talent is just 1 of those reasons. All that is to say that your whole sad argument stating that a team that won a few less games in a 4 year span than another is more “devoid” of talent is just your blanket excuse for Kubiak and why his ass after 6 years was still scuffling to make us relevant.

As has been stated, he had the core of his 2011 and 2012 teams in tact within 3 years of his tenure here. So why then did it take another 2 years before we became relevant? Why then did we have to damn near bottom out in 2010 at 6-10 before we finally break through with this apparently superior HC?

No excuse u can come up with will ever be able to explain that away.
You and steelb keep getting ahead of yourselves.

Let be man enough to ackowledge the difference between the teams the two HCs inherited.

For a change, can either one of you give a thought of how "close" the talent level was when they came aboard.

And did you guys pay any attention to the cap situation?

To be honest, if there's a thread to discuss/argue things, we all need to have an open mind.

To start with "this thread is going nowhere" says about an individual rather than one who's willing to engage - no matter the difference.

You should not shy from a discussion when the one who starts it is all ears.

Otherwise, it makes ZERO sense for anyone of us to post on this forum.

Cheers,
John
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Everyone in here has conceded that BoB took over a more talented team after Kubiak than Kubiak took over after Capers...& we all have engaged, you just don't like what we have to say b/c noone's buying your "talent" excuse. The difference in talent was in no way this huge detriment you're blowing it up to be.

So what he got saddled with Carr his 1st year. That didn't stop him from winning more games with him than Capers did. Let me guess, that's just a testament to how good of a coach he was & how bad Capers was?

So what they got nothing out of the Boselli signing. Had every opportunity to erase that in 2006 & 2007 by selecting D'brickashaw..... or moving down & taking Staley in 2007....Smithiak didn't do that, they instead opted for retreads like Salaam and Wiegert.

You're flat out over-playing your hand here.
 

OptimisticTexan

Hall of Fame
I'll sum it up.....they both sucked. Both had drafts where they could of done much much better.....thanks RS. Both had and have failed the Texans, players and fans. This began with Casserly/Capers and will end at some point with OB/OB......nothing good has happened in between except the consistency with mediocrity or failure in regards to the draft, free agency, and play on the field.

Picking Kubiak or O'Brien is like watching a player jump up and signal -very animated like- first down......while being down by 40 with 2 minutes left in the game. There is no winner.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Everyone in here has conceded that BoB took over a more talented team after Kubiak than Kubiak took over after Capers...& we all have engaged, you just don't like what we have to say b/c noone's buying your "talent" excuse. The difference in talent was in no way this huge detriment you're blowing it up to be.

So what he got saddled with Carr his 1st year. That didn't stop him from winning more games with him than Capers did. Let me guess, that's just a testament to how good of a coach he was & how bad Capers was?

So what they got nothing out of the Boselli signing. Had every opportunity to erase that in 2006 & 2007 by selecting D'brickashaw..... or moving down & taking Staley in 2007....Smithiak didn't do that, they instead opted for retreads like Salaam and Wiegert.

You're flat out over-playing your hand here.
76Texan is an Aggie.

That should explain it.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Deflecting an argument is sure-fired not the way of a science man.

I've been quite disappointed with you, CNND.

76Texan John
I'm trying to see how you view this. However, science requires unbiased trustworthy presentation of all of the data, as well as unbiased conclusions...............and just as importantly, recognizing when the data might be faulty................and furthermore, it must be reviewed and reanalyzed until reproducibly proven......................nothing like the incomplete process seen in this thread. This thread would bother any man of science.

1583094489158.png
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
@76Texan - "you can lead a horse to water....."

this thread has shown that OBrien inherited a winning team, and he was supposed to 'take them to the promised land', but what he really did was languish in mediocrity because of his own lack of talent as a head coach and it wasnt until he was "forced" Watson upon him by the rogue and incompetent Rick Smith (who built the core group of players for OBrien!) that he became a "good coach". Its pretty evident that if this team doesnt sell out Kubiak and gives him that 'bad year due to injury' (that OBrien has already been gifted) that this team would have been in a Super Bowl already. I mean its hilarious to see people latch onto OBrien who has never won ANYTHING at ANY LEVEL as the beacon of what a winner is!! How many rings for Koobs now?? Kubiaks HUGE UNDOING??? Loyalty. Something that will never get in the way for Bill OBrien.

This has been a trainwreck of fallacy when people who get presented with black and white cant even engage and appreciate the basic truths and move on in a fulfilling discussion ... cant even get past the OBVIOUS ROSTER differences and ACCEPT THE FACT that RICK SMITH was the architect and deserves ALL THE CREDIT FOR BILL OBRIENS SUCCESS!!!! too afraid to move onto the technical differences within the systems!! SMH. Pointing the finger at the man who built BOTH teams as the reason for the failure!! LMAO. Yall better keep wasting time arguing roster semantics because if the systems get opened up it continues to make your Emperor look like a fool.

In the end it seems like OBrien will be even more tricky than Rick SMith.

Too bad Deshaun Watson keeps saving his job. Its an unfortunate revolving door.

Use that ignore feature my dude! Its uber satisfying to see how bent out of shape they get when they cant exchange anymore like a puppy yapping at your heels!! Make this YOUR experience ( i only see like 2 posts on this page LMAO - YOU dictate the context that YOU want). Also, take a pulse of these talking points on a national level if you have friends/family in other cities/states .. jump onto other team fan sites and gage the response - you would feel infinitely justified! This is the only pocket of "Trade Deshaun Watson" .. "Bill OBrien is a Hall of Fame coach" .. "Kubiak was/is a bad coach" .. "Rick SMith was a terrible GM" - brilliance that you will find HAHA - among the "die hards".
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
@76Texan - "you can lead a horse to water....."

this thread has shown that OBrien inherited a winning team, and he was supposed to 'take them to the promised land', but what he really did was languish in mediocrity because of his own lack of talent as a head coach and it wasnt until he was "forced" Watson upon him by the rogue and incompetent Rick Smith (who built the core group of players for OBrien!) that he became a "good coach". Its pretty evident that if this team doesnt sell out Kubiak and gives him that 'bad year due to injury' (that OBrien has already been gifted) that this team would have been in a Super Bowl already. I mean its hilarious to see people latch onto OBrien who has never won ANYTHING at ANY LEVEL as the beacon of what a winner is!! How many rings for Koobs now?? Kubiaks HUGE UNDOING??? Loyalty. Something that will never get in the way for Bill OBrien.

This has been a trainwreck of fallacy when people who get presented with black and white cant even engage and appreciate the basic truths and move on in a fulfilling discussion ... cant even get past the OBVIOUS ROSTER differences and ACCEPT THE FACT that RICK SMITH was the architect and deserves ALL THE CREDIT FOR BILL OBRIENS SUCCESS!!!! too afraid to move onto the technical differences within the systems!! SMH. Pointing the finger at the man who built BOTH teams as the reason for the failure!! LMAO. Yall better keep wasting time arguing roster semantics because if the systems get opened up it continues to make your Emperor look like a fool.

In the end it seems like OBrien will be even more tricky than Rick SMith.

Too bad Deshaun Watson keeps saving his job. Its an unfortunate revolving door.

Use that ignore feature my dude! Its uber satisfying to see how bent out of shape they get when they cant exchange anymore like a puppy yapping at your heels!! Make this YOUR experience ( i only see like 2 posts on this page LMAO - YOU dictate the context that YOU want). Also, take a pulse of these talking points on a national level if you have friends/family in other cities/states .. jump onto other team fan sites and gage the response - you would feel infinitely justified! This is the only pocket of "Trade Deshaun Watson" .. "Bill OBrien is a Hall of Fame coach" .. "Kubiak was/is a bad coach" .. "Rick SMith was a terrible GM" - brilliance that you will find HAHA - among the "die hards".
2-14

Aging team Foster/AJ/OD/Myers were about done and RS decided to let Jones/Brooks walk. Combine that with RS not being able to find a QB even though they had 1-1 and the 1st pick in every rd they still had a failed draft only lets you see the incompetence in the light of day. RS stabbed Kubiak in the back to gain power (Even though he was still the lead guy in contracts/FA/draft with Kubiak, See: Schaub extension which lead to not getting Manning. This comes from a poster who was in the room at the time)

BOB is still cleaning up the mess left for him and he's doing a good job of that. IMHO DW4 is better than Hoyer/Os etc.. but he's certainly not saving anybody's job. In fact he's regressing from his rookie yr when DC's hadn't figured out what he like to do. The DC's have now figured him out and DW4 has yet to adjust/learn how to make the necessary changes in his game to take his game to the next level.

With this said, I dont think BOB's a championship level HC either. Both HC's were avg at best while here and there were 2 constants whether you want to admit this or not (ownership/RS)

Go back into your mothers basement and return to worshiping your DW4 shrine.
 
Last edited:

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
@76Texan - "you can lead a horse to water....."

this thread has shown that OBrien inherited a winning team, and he was supposed to 'take them to the promised land', but what he really did was languish in mediocrity because of his own lack of talent as a head coach and it wasnt until he was "forced" Watson upon him by the rogue and incompetent Rick Smith (who built the core group of players for OBrien!) that he became a "good coach". Its pretty evident that if this team doesnt sell out Kubiak and gives him that 'bad year due to injury' (that OBrien has already been gifted) that this team would have been in a Super Bowl already. I mean its hilarious to see people latch onto OBrien who has never won ANYTHING at ANY LEVEL as the beacon of what a winner is!! How many rings for Koobs now?? Kubiaks HUGE UNDOING??? Loyalty. Something that will never get in the way for Bill OBrien.

This has been a trainwreck of fallacy when people who get presented with black and white cant even engage and appreciate the basic truths and move on in a fulfilling discussion ... cant even get past the OBVIOUS ROSTER differences and ACCEPT THE FACT that RICK SMITH was the architect and deserves ALL THE CREDIT FOR BILL OBRIENS SUCCESS!!!! too afraid to move onto the technical differences within the systems!! SMH. Pointing the finger at the man who built BOTH teams as the reason for the failure!! LMAO. Yall better keep wasting time arguing roster semantics because if the systems get opened up it continues to make your Emperor look like a fool.

In the end it seems like OBrien will be even more tricky than Rick SMith.

Too bad Deshaun Watson keeps saving his job. Its an unfortunate revolving door.

Use that ignore feature my dude! Its uber satisfying to see how bent out of shape they get when they cant exchange anymore like a puppy yapping at your heels!! Make this YOUR experience ( i only see like 2 posts on this page LMAO - YOU dictate the context that YOU want). Also, take a pulse of these talking points on a national level if you have friends/family in other cities/states .. jump onto other team fan sites and gage the response - you would feel infinitely justified! This is the only pocket of "Trade Deshaun Watson" .. "Bill OBrien is a Hall of Fame coach" .. "Kubiak was/is a bad coach" .. "Rick SMith was a terrible GM" - brilliance that you will find HAHA - among the "die hards".


Hey bro stop being an Aggie. Lol
 

CWTexansFan

Waterboy
@76Texan - "you can lead a horse to water....."

this thread has shown that OBrien inherited a winning team, and he was supposed to 'take them to the promised land', but what he really did was languish in mediocrity because of his own lack of talent as a head coach and it wasnt until he was "forced" Watson upon him by the rogue and incompetent Rick Smith (who built the core group of players for OBrien!) that he became a "good coach". Its pretty evident that if this team doesnt sell out Kubiak and gives him that 'bad year due to injury' (that OBrien has already been gifted) that this team would have been in a Super Bowl already. I mean its hilarious to see people latch onto OBrien who has never won ANYTHING at ANY LEVEL as the beacon of what a winner is!! How many rings for Koobs now?? Kubiaks HUGE UNDOING??? Loyalty. Something that will never get in the way for Bill OBrien.

This has been a trainwreck of fallacy when people who get presented with black and white cant even engage and appreciate the basic truths and move on in a fulfilling discussion ... cant even get past the OBVIOUS ROSTER differences and ACCEPT THE FACT that RICK SMITH was the architect and deserves ALL THE CREDIT FOR BILL OBRIENS SUCCESS!!!! too afraid to move onto the technical differences within the systems!! SMH. Pointing the finger at the man who built BOTH teams as the reason for the failure!! LMAO. Yall better keep wasting time arguing roster semantics because if the systems get opened up it continues to make your Emperor look like a fool.

In the end it seems like OBrien will be even more tricky than Rick SMith.

Too bad Deshaun Watson keeps saving his job. Its an unfortunate revolving door.

Use that ignore feature my dude! Its uber satisfying to see how bent out of shape they get when they cant exchange anymore like a puppy yapping at your heels!! Make this YOUR experience ( i only see like 2 posts on this page LMAO - YOU dictate the context that YOU want). Also, take a pulse of these talking about points on a national level if you have friends/family in other cities/states .. jump onto other team fan sites and gage the response - you would feel infinitely justified! This is the only pocket of "Trade Deshaun Watson" .. "Bill OBrien is a Hall of Fame coach" .. "Kubiak was/is a bad coach" .. "Rick SMith was a terrible GM" - brilliance that you will find HAHA - among the "die hards".
Deleted
 


Top