O-Line Shake-Up

[powda]

Seth Wand is like a POW - he has disappeared from the face of the earth. Dang, wonder if his own family knows his whereabouts ?

why do i have this gut feeling the o-line and in particular wand is where this coaching staff lost the players?

immagine...after a game last year late in the season the coaching staff trys to make an example of the line...it backfires...instead of striking fear into the team or inspiring them they lose the team. people had high expectations for wand comming into last year...no he wasnt gonna be that "pace" kinda guy but he was going to be our solution. the coaching staff "missteped" and this is the result...zero...absolutley zero effort from the line.

in addition to that they dont take kindly to carr and espn commercials about "what does your team need?"

im convinced this is a spite effort by a majority of our players. our talent is not this bad. we have 8-8 talent right now.

 

[powda]

"what is your major malfunction?"


seriously..all of a sudden im getting visions of wand as "gommer pile" in full metal jacket running circles around the playing field with his pants around his ankles and his thumb in his mouth...

it was intended to inspire the team.

instead they shot the drill sgt.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

why do i have this gut feeling the o-line and in particular wand is where this coaching staff lost the players?

immagine...after a game last year late in the season the coaching staff trys to make an example of the line...it backfires...instead of striking fear into the team or inspiring them they lose the team. people had high expectations for wand comming into last year...no he wasnt gonna be that "pace" kinda guy but he was going to be our solution. the coaching staff "missteped" and this is the result...zero...absolutley zero effort from the line.

in addition to that they dont take kindly to carr and espn commercials about "what does your team need?"

im convinced this is a spite effort by a majority of our players. our talent is not this bad. we have 8-8 talent right now.

Interesting take, would be nice to have a beat reporter cover this a little more. This wreaks of conspiracy with the possibility of Pendry rising to OC when his domain was the genesis of the team's malaise or apathy.

 

[keyfro]

let me ask ya'll this...if pitts is moved back to LT and does really good...do we still draft a LT #1 in the draft?

 

[powda]

yes.

pitts is the best candidate of a bad bunch. that dosent make him a great left tackle.

d'brick has the potential to be a hall of fame tackle.

 

[Hervoyel]

Absolutely we do. There's no way this team comes out of the first round of next years draft without one of the best LT prospects available. Pitts can be a "good" LT at this level. He can do the job. He'll be a much better LG and possibly even a Pro Bowl LG someday.

And besides. Say you call it "Problem solved" and skip on that LT. Four games into the 2006 season Chester Pitts breaks his ankle. Now what are you going to do? It's hard to find guys who can play LT or even RT at a high level. Get another one when you have the chance, you'll be glad you did.

 

[keyfro]

ok that's what i was thinking...so the next question is since we draft ferguson (assuming we'll have the top 3 pick to do so) do we start him at LT his rookie year or do what the raiders are doing and start him at another position on the line...i would think let him take his lumps at LT and get used to that side of the ball in the nfl...maybe during the indy game leave give him a TE or a FB to help with freeney

 

[infantrycak]

This coaching staff gets rid of anyone who might criticize them. Remember, people like Sharper and Glenn. What would you expect. We may disagree on a lot of things, but I hope we are on the same page as far as this coaching staff is concerned.

Don't confuse a joke with agreeing with this kind of stuff. Maybe Sharper got cut for speaking out one time and maybe he got cut because last year he played like an above average player and was scheduled to get played like an elite player. As for Glenn, cite me a single instance of him saying anything critical of the team prior to his departure. Do I disagree with letting Glenn go?--yes, but he wasn't let go because he mouthed off. But, after totally divergent paths to reach a conclusion, yes we agree this coaching staff is toast at this point.

 

[Hervoyel]

If we were talking about Barron I'd say yes, start him at RT and leave Pitts in place at LT for one more year. Pitts is reaching a point where I think he's not going to be hurt moving from LT to LG to LT and back again to LG. He's become a veteran lineman and I think his play at LG has shown that he can make the switch and play well there. Delaying that some more won't be a problem IMO. Lesser of two evils.

As I understand it "Brick" (assuming we get him) is a better prospect than Barron. Is he better than Gallery though? I don't really know and there are better judges of talent than me in here. I think even if he is I'd still leave Pitts at LT for one more season and give him the "RT treatment" If it buys Carr a sub 40 sack season then I'm all for it.

I am desperate to see Carr go two years in a row (or more) without being sacked like groceries.

 

[outofhnd]

The simple truth is Palmer daydreamed this offense... And didnt take personnel other than his skill position players into account.

"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.

I thought we were doing pretty good in 03 without zone blocking, I think the zone blocking idea was a way to dis illusion as to how bad of shape the line was really in. im thinking we get 3 lineman this year on offense with a TE.

 

[Ibar_Harry]

The simple truth is Palmer daydreamed this offense... And didnt take personnel other than his skill position players into account.

"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.

I thought we were doing pretty good in 03 without zone blocking, I think the zone blocking idea was a way to dis illusion as to how bad of shape the line was really in. im thinking we get 3 lineman this year on offense with a TE.

It was year 3 that we initiated zone blocking. It was year 2 when we were not using it and the sacks droped. Starting year 3 with zone blocking we began to fall apart once again in the sack department.

 

[outofhnd]

i meant the year 2003 not year 3

 

[HJam72]

"Run like Denver, Pass like Indianapolis" However the zone blocking scheme is not for the drop straight back and look over the field passer. its hittting the D line quick and then th qb gets rid of the ball, most often its the West Coast offense that gets run with zone blocking and it is effective. Our pass plays are to scattered across the field so car is having to look every where instead of like 2 places.

If this is true, we have the wrong QB. We need someone with less arm and more of everything else.

People, does the zone blocking scheme effect the pass blocking or not? We seem to have major differences of opinion on this and I don't know what to think. IF it does, then that's the whole dang problem. We gotta go back to the normal blocking scheme.

 

[Texans Horror]

I liked this quote from the article:

"Because the Texans can do little but shuffle the line at this point, they hope that is enough to spark a resurgence."

And yet, Riley and McKinney are still on the field and where is Wand? This is the type of problem that I've been seeing. The coaching staff just isn't willing to bench bad players and play ones who have proved themselves. That's stupid.

 

[done88]

yea its about time

 

[the wonger need food]

Here's the link from the Chronicle:

Texans Shuffle Offensive Line for Seahawks

Something disturbing from this McClain's article...

Riley was signed as a free agent to compete with Wade but wound up replacing Seth Wand on the left side.

Really... Riley was brought in to compete with Wade... our best offensive lineman? They have known this long that Wade is another bust and didn't tell anyone?

This organization just wreaks right now. If they were as focused on winning games as they are on covering up their mistakes they might be able to win some football games.

 

[infantrycak]

Something disturbing from this McClain's article...

Riley was signed as a free agent to compete with Wade but wound up replacing Seth Wand on the left side.

Really... Riley was brought in to compete with Wade... our best offensive lineman? They have known this long that Wade is another bust and didn't tell anyone?

On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

 

[Vinny]

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

Or this guy

 

[the wonger need food]

Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

 

[texan279]

On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

At this rate, we'll be 0-16 and 20 million over the cap... :brickwall

 

[Vinny]

Send them Kenny Wright...oh wait, he starts for the Jags....hmmm, release Steve Foley!!...oh wait...he isn't a back...but he couldn't start here either. Hmmm, send them Marlon McCree!....oh wait, he starts for the Panthers.

 

[texan279]

Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

Just saw a piece on him on Cold Pizza. They said he is a solid run blocker but the Chargers feel they can no longer depend on him. Supposedly he had hand surgery against the Charger's wishes and they feel his replacement is doing a good enough job.

 

[the wonger need food]

Just saw a piece on him on NFL Network. They said he is a solid run blocker but the Chargers feel they can no longer depend on him. Supposedly he had hand surgery against the Charger's wishes and they feel his replacement is doing a good enough job.

His backup stepped in and did a good job while he was hurt. I believe that Fonoti is up for a new contract after this season and that is part of the reasoning to get rid of him. He'll probably move into the $4-5 million range.

 

[Huge]

Never go after a player a team is looking to trade. More times than not, there's a reason they're wanting to trade him. In this case, I doubt San Diego is happy with their depth on the OL and can afford to lose Fonoti.

 

[Runner]

On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

Somewhere a goat is huddled in fear that he is next in line for Casserly.

"can't" as in "won't be given the opportunity" apparently.

Riley is gasping for air by mid 3rd quarter, and he was very slow and ineffective in the 4th because of his fitness - why has he "earned" these starting spots?

 

[Vinny]

"can't" as in "won't be given the opportunity" apparently.

Riley is gasping for air by mid 3rd quarter, and he was very slow and ineffective in the 4th because of his fitness - why has he "earned" these starting spots?

You don't have to actually earn a starting spot with the FEMA Texans....just show up and get your card.

 

[eriadoc]

If this is true, we have the wrong QB. We need someone with less arm and more of everything else.

Or maybe the coaching staff could adjust their scheme to their personnel. I agree with whoever said (in another thread) that Capers is far too rigid in his approach. If a player does something well, use it! Don't try to force a square peg intoa round hole.

 

[Blake]

"After toying with the arrangement of players on the offensive line at various points over the last five months, the Texans are finally preparing a vastly different starting lineup for their nationally televised matchup this weekend against the Seahawks.

According to ESPN.com, the Texans are planning to start Chester Pitts at left tackle, the position he played his first two years with the team. Center Steve McKinney will return to left guard, the position he played at his previous NFL stop in Indianapolis. Rookie Drew Hodgdon, a fifth round pick last April, will make his first career start at center.

Right guard Zach Wiegert and right tackle Todd Wade will remain in their same positions, but Wade should expect some increased competition to keep his starting assignment. Former left tackle Victor Riley, a right tackle for his entire career before joining the Texans in the offseason, will challenge Wade for playing time at right tackle.

Missing from the game of musical chairs on the offensive line is third-year tackle Seth Wand. The starter at left tackle in 2004, Wand lost his job to Riley during training camp in August."


http://www.houstonprofootball.com/

 

[Blake]

All I have to say is its about time.

 

[MorKnolle]

I do like this change, I think Pitts will do better at LT since he is more athletic. I would still like to see Riley moved to a guard spot, possibly RG where you need more of a push for running plays, and then move Weigert to LG to help protect that back side since he is more athletic, and then I would leave McKinney in at C, although we will see how good Hodgdon can do this week in practice.

 

[edo783]

Someone asked if the zone blocking scheme had anything to do with pass protection....the answer is no. It's a run blocking sort of scheme.

 

[THEFUTURE]

i so called this switch like a week or more ago, man i am smart, haha. about time things got shaken up. but what a waste todd wade will be if he doesnt keep his job over riley

 

[Runner]

On 610 am this morning they said the RT job is Riley's. No competition with Wade or Wand--they are just on the bench. Brilliant, so the full of promise project and the $10 million dollar man can't even compete with a grossly out of shape league minimum yeoman.

I'd love to be present the next time Wade and Wand had a private conversation.

 

[dalemurphy]

I'd love to be present the next time Wade and Wand had a private conversation.

What is going on with Seth Wand? He was much better last year than either Wade or Riley have been this year. Can someone explain why the coaching staff has written him off?

 

[Coach C.]

What is going on with Seth Wand? He was much better last year than either Wade or Riley have been this year. Can someone explain why the coaching staff has written him off?

Dale it is likely due to the fact that he did not progress during the offseason. Is he more athletic, yes, but that does not get it done. Wand is already a pretty soft lineman, plus he came into training camp out of shape. Now We did play Riley who cant even make it to the bathroom without a water break. I would put the non use of Wand on the offseason things. the fact of it is that Capers has not used him and he has slipped into the dreaded obscurity zone.

 

[Runner]

Dale it is likely due to the fact that he did not progress during the offseason. Is he more athletic, yes, but that does not get it done. Wand is already a pretty soft lineman, plus he came into training camp out of shape. Now We did play Riley who cant even make it to the bathroom without a water break. I would put the non use of Wand on the offseason things. the fact of it is that Capers has not used him and he has slipped into the dreaded obscurity zone.

I don't know about him being out of shape - he is one of the players that stays in Houston and follows the Texan off-season program at the stadium.

I can't believe they put Riley in if being in shape was the criteria either.

 

[NoBullTexan]

The starter, Riley, is the one who came into camp out of shape. Don't know how Wand came into that conversation. I too, would like to know why Wand isn't given another chance?

 

[Coach C.]

Guys when I mean out of shape I dont mean with the athletically. It was a situation where he had a shoulder issue and then he had not picked up on tapes and the ins and outs of his position. that is what I mean by out of shape. I should have clarifyed that. Sorry.

 

[the wonger need food]

Interestingly enough, Fonoti has spent the past 2 offseasons conditioning in Houston. Apparently he's pretty fat.

"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

 

[Hervoyel]

Interestingly enough, Fonoti has spent the past 2 offseasons conditioning in Houston. Apparently he's pretty fat.

"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

If he comes here can we call him "Tony Rocky Horror"?

 

[William.carter]

"I wouldn't go so far as to call the brother fat, I mean he got a weight problem. What's he gonna do? He's Samoan." - Pulp Fiction

A bit off subject, but that movie is so full of one-liners it's crazy. Thanks for the laugh, I forgot about that one.

 

[El Tejano]

From what I recall, Mckinney was a way better LG than he ever was a center. Maybe going back to the natural position will help. I remember we had our fewest sacks ever when Pitts was at LT. Nothing to brag about but still alot less sacks. He proved himself against guys like Jason Taylor.

 

[Runner]

From what I recall, Mckinney was a way better LG than he ever was a center. Maybe going back to the natural position will help. I remember we had our fewest sacks ever when Pitts was at LT. Nothing to brag about but still alot less sacks. He proved himself against guys like Jason Taylor.

In a couple of weeks Pitts may get the opportunity to prove himself against Dwight Freeney. Hopefully he adjusts back to the "nuances of the LT position" (his words) quickly.

 

[HJam72]

I think this line shake-up will help. Pitts, while not really being a LT, is our best LT right now. McKinney will be better as a guard also. I also think they should let Seth Wand compete with the other guys at RT. Maybe Wand's not as good as (Wade? Wiegert?) there, but he's probably better than Riley, who's competing for it now. All just my opinion, of course.

 

[SESupergenius]

I wouldn't put the rookie into the center position just yet. Pitts at LT is better than Riley, but still not up to par. the LG spot is in shambles, this is probably one of our biggest achilles heals right now. All we did was move the problem to another spot. Seattle likes to blitz the safety, so the Tackles need to contain their assignments. DD really needs to keep sharp on his man.

 

[texan279]

from www.kffl.com

Texans | Hodgdon to Backup at Center
Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:49:17 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans C Drew Hodgdon will serve as the backup center to C Steve McKinney heading into Week 6.


Texans | Brown May Start at Left Guard in Week 6
Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:48:16 -0700

Megan Manfull, of the Houston Chronicle, reports Houston Texans OG Milford Brown will start at left guard if C Steve McKinney remains the starting center for Week 6.

 

[Shamrock]

Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

I'm a Chargers fan.

Fonoti is an unrestricted free agent after this season, and rumors say he won't resign with San Diego. GM AJ Smith has tried to get negotiations going but Fonoti's agent has said no.

SD has problems with Fonoti's actions on multiple occassions. He doesn't participate in the off season conditioning program, but rather spends his off season in Houston.

He reported way overweight in 2003, then developed a foot injury, probably due to his weight. He was IR'd that year. He also reported late to Training Camp by one day in 2004, and had another unexcused one day absence at Mini Camp 2005.

He left practice one day a week or two ago, then notified the team the next day he had a second surgery on his injured hand. That meant he would miss an additional three games (two more from now, then SD has a bye.)

Compensation: The Chargers are looking for a 3rd or 4th round pick. They know Fonoti is going to get a good FA contract, and SD can expect a 3rd round Compensatory Selection in 2007 as compensation from the NFL for losing a quality FA. However, I believe they would take a 2006 4th round pick, as that provides equal present value to a 2007 #3.

Talent: Fonoti is a road grader in the running game. He has All Pro talent in drive blocking. He is not very agile, nor very athletic, and has some problems in pulling. He does well in SD's short pull and trap system, but doesn't get to the second level well on extended sweeps or screens. If he lines up a guy while in space, he can level him, but he can also be side stepped easily.

In pass blocking, he's average to above average, but definitely not elite. He's now worked with two of the best OL coaches around (Hudson Houck and Carl Mauck) but his pass blocking has not improved as much as I thought it would. My contention is it never will, and it's simply a matter of his limited athleticism. He would probably help a troubled OL such as the Texans.

Weight: He's "in shape". For him that means about 350-370 lbs. He's a big dude.

Bottom line: The Texans are my #2 team, and I would love to see the team do something to upgrade the OL to keep Carr on his feet and allow him some time to find downfield WR's. Carr is never going to develop if he doesn't have the time in the pocket to make reads.

I contend that Fonoti will sign with Houston after this season anyway. Is a #4 in 2006 worth helping to keep Carr on his feet for the next 10 games? That's the question y'all need to ask.

 

[texan279]

Thanks for the post Shamrock, gives me a more in depth look at this guy.

I contend that Fonoti will sign with Houston after this season anyway. Is a #4 in 2006 worth helping to keep Carr on his feet for the next 10 games? That's the question y'all need to ask.

You bet your behind it is...

 

[the wonger need food]

The silly Bolts fans are talking about trading Fonoti for Andre Johnson or Dunta Robinson...

It looks like the going price is a 4th rounder. And he's going to get a healthy raise in the offseason.

 

[utahmark]

Here's what San Diego fans are saying about Fonoti... SD Message Board on Fonoti

The general concensus is that he is a very good player and that they need to trade him for a defensive back. DB is a position that we were told we were deep at, however, that theory has been exposed. Looks like it would take draft picks to get him in a trade.

send them buchanon.