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Now do i seem ridiculous?????

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Big ups to swtbound07. Because we absolutely needed a knee-jerk "Let's bench David Carr" thread after a win in the preseason opener. Needed it like flies need garbage.

This axiom will never fade. "The most popular guy in town is the backup quarterback." Sage is the man. I'm just wondering where all the posters who slammed the Rosenfels signing are? (crickets)

I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of guy in the preseason. So if David Carr can play so poorly, and the team still scores on 50% of their possessions...they'll be unstoppable when he actually plays well! (I need a spinning smilie here)
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Sorry to be a total Message Board "Spaz," but what is a "Carr Homer?"
I can't be the only one on the boards that doesn't know...or am I?
Answer please...
Click to expand...

Someone who defends everything Carr does and thinks he does no wrong, whether it be good or bad, while watching him through steel blue colored glasses.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Not saying that at all...
Just asking a question...
What would it REALLY hurt to give the kid a chance?
Not calling 911, the National Guard or Rambo...
The question is...
WHAT WOULD IT REALLY HURT?
It's an honest question looking for honest feedback!
Click to expand...
What has Sage done to earn that.

I could see Carr sitting to rest him in the pre season, so he does not get hurt like Clinton Portis.

But if Carr is doing good why would they do it.

Lets sit Andre and Moulds just to see what Walters and Lewis can do. WHY?
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Not saying that at all...
Just asking a question...
What would it REALLY hurt to give the kid a chance?
Not calling 911, the National Guard or Rambo...
The question is...
WHAT WOULD IT REALLY HURT?
It's an honest question looking for honest feedback!
Click to expand...
It depends, are you going to let Kubiak do what HE thinks best?
Are you trying to get DC ready for the season, or is seeing how Rosenfels can do against the 1st team-D more important?
I wonder how DC would fare against the 2nd-3rd string.

My advice to all concerned is WATCH the tape (if you can), and listen to Kubiak's evaluations.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
Sorry to be a total Message Board "Spaz," but what is a "Carr Homer?"
I can't be the only one on the boards that doesn't know...or am I?
Answer please...
Click to expand...

carr homer, carr supporter, carr appologist, non-carr-hater, call it what you will. seems carr is just a partisan subject with a no win situation you say he does good yer a carr lover, you critisize yer a carr hater, overall touchy subject.
 
in a strange turn of events Kubiak molds David Carr into a scatback QB capable of running sideline to sideline wearing down entire defenses without once getting sack'ed, a new hybred QB has been created :spy:
 
Well it's great to be undefeated, I am so pleased that I lost sight of the fact that this is pre-season. But also I was unaware that in four years we have only won 3 pre-season games. We need to keep the winner attitude and give it back to the players every chance we get.

We are on the road to respectability
 
Luv_ya_blue said:

Wouldn't it be better to see how he does against them in the Preseason rather than in mid-season or during a push for the playoffs?
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No....... that's what backups do.... they sit on the bench, come into the games cold, and produce with less preperation than the starters....

If our guy can't do that, we don't need him.



NEXT............
 
I'm pretty sure Carr will get more snaps next game and we can get a better idea of how he looks. like I said I think he allways looks nervous even when he isnt so it prolly wont matter to those that just want him to be mediocre.
 
Why is this thread still alive? Hulk75 made a nice breakdown, IMO, and as we have stated before, Carr was working against Pro Bowl corners while Rosenfels was playing with guys who might not even make the Chiefs' roster. It's the first pre-season game and our guys are obviously going to be a bit rusty. IMO, the only guy that should be benched for the next game againse the Rams is Antowain Smith.
 
Ok, to answer the question of what harm would it be to let Sage start the next preseason game.

Answer: The coaches are still evaluting David and Sage, they take their performances of the game to go over during the next weeks practice. Both David and Sage still need work, and since Carr is the projected starter (No certanties (sp?)) he should go against projected starting defenses.

Now I do feel that if Carr shows satisfactory improvement in play by the Tampa pre-season game, then that would be the time to rest him, and see what Sage can do against a first string defense.
 
TK_Gamer said:
I'm pretty sure Carr will get more snaps next game and we can get a better idea of how he looks. like I said I think he allways looks nervous even when he isnt so it prolly wont matter to those that just want him to be mediocre.
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Yea I think he will play almost a half.:cool:
 
I agree that Carr should start the next game also, it might cause a little tension to start Sage over him this early in the preseason....wow for the first time in like forever I actually stood up for a man by the name of David Carr.......feels kinda strange. :confused:
 
Well Dream, you have 2 options now. Go over to the darkside (Notice, I don't sa which side is the darkside), or try to find the neutral ground, The neutral ground is difficult to locate, and I came over from the homerside, it will be difficult, but you can do it :redtowel:
 
swtbound07 said:
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.
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I do not get it. The game suggested to me that Carr haters should change their minds. Carr has shown toughness. He showed his athleticism last night more so than Rosefels. He was not locked on his primary target unless you consider Moulds his primary target. He probably checked Johnson. Johnson was covered. He checked Moulds. Moulds was open. This happened about 3-4 times. He threw one down the seam that was incomplete mostly because of a good play by the linebacker. I think it was a good throw though, and I wonder if the coach did not want him to go down the seam anyway. He messed up on the throw to Johnson for sure (it was mostly timing not aim like with Rosenfels), and Surtain (Pro Bowler) did not fail to capitalize. Otherwise, the first team mostly ran. Carr's other mistake was fumbling the ball on the 4th and 1, but he still made the play. I am sure there were some nerves involved. Rosenfels does not have the pressure of an entire city of Carr haters watching his every move. Rosenfels went against a less talented group of defensive personnel. He looked like a good backup, but he made some bad throws. Porter looked the best of all three quarterbacks, but I do not think anyone would argue that he should start.
 
jdog said:
I do not get it. The game suggested to me that Carr haters should change their minds. Carr has shown toughness. He showed his athleticism last night more so than Rosefels. He was not locked on his primary target unless you consider Moulds his primary target. He probably checked Johnson. Johnson was covered. He checked Moulds. Moulds was open. This happened about 3-4 times. He threw one down the seam that was incomplete mostly because of a good play by the linebacker. I think it was a good throw though, and I wonder if the coach did not want him to go down the seam anyway. He messed up on the throw to Johnson for sure (it was mostly timing not aim like with Rosenfels), and Surtain (Pro Bowler) did not fail to capitalize. Otherwise, the first team mostly ran. Carr's other mistake was fumbling the ball on the 4th and 1, but he still made the play. I am sure there were some nerves involved. Rosenfels does not have the pressure of an entire city of Carr haters watching his every move. Rosenfels went against a less talented group of defensive personnel. He looked like a good backup, but he made some bad throws. Porter looked the best of all three quarterbacks, but I do not think anyone would argue that he should start.
Click to expand...

I would, but thats only so I don't waste my money on his jersey. :shades:
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
I don't have a habit of agreeing with SWT on...well pretty much ANYTHING.

But with that said, what would the harm be (other than psychological for DC) for Rosenfells(sp) to start this next preseason game just to see how he does against the starting D? Or is it as simple...from Kubiak's point of view he is and will remain the backup, barring injury of course, no matter how he or Carr plays?

Not bashing on Carr...so don't even start that stuff.

Just a question?
Just curious as to you guys thoughts...
Click to expand...


I don't think it would cause any psychological harm to Carr. I think he's a strong enough individual to handle that. However, Carr still has improvements to make and I think he needs to get time going against NFL caliber defenses.
 
Luv_ya_blue said:
No need for the attitude Thunder!
I was asking a very simple question!
Don't like my question...then "ignore" me!
Click to expand...


take the chip off your shoulder...... I wasn't saying NEXT..... as in next stupid question..... that was a NEXT as in next backup QB if our guy can't produce coming off the bench.....
 
You know, if we go 8-8 it will be a great season. But reading some of ya'll's comments, it sounds like if we don't win the SB we're losers. I don't like the all or nothing mentallity. Carr/ Rosenfels Davis/ Lundy less haters more cheers, we won the first game. AND since I have not read it yet, Green, the QB for KC, has avg 4000 yrds passing pr/season over the last 5 years, and he didn't torch us, so by you Carr haters reasoning, he should be replaced also. Rememeber he didn't see the end zone till his second possion either.

:homer:
 
What does George W.'s brother have to do with the Texans... I don't have cable or satelite so I don't get to watch CNN or anything else on cable... I'm confused now...
 
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter
 
swtbound07 said:
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter
Click to expand...

I don't know if you understand how receiver checking goes. As a general rule (as far as I understand), a QB looks to his first option. The "first option" is who the play is originally designed for. If that WR is open, he throws them the ball. He isn't supposed to check his #1 receiver, if he's open, check the rest to make sure they aren't more open, and then switch back to his #1. So my guess is that on the moulds play, moulds was his #1 target. He checked Moulds, saw he was open and could get him the ball, and threw it to him. No need to check AJ, and if he had, Moulds might not have been open anymore. Good read, good pass, good play imo
 
swtbound07 said:
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter
Click to expand...

Facts:

3/5 for 23 yds 0 int 0 td 60% comp 4 rush for 20 yds against one of the best cb tandems we will face
 
I love how a guy watchin' the game on TV in his momma's basement can watch so closely he sees where David Carr is lookin' (don't judge a guy's vision by what is "vision cone" was in Madden 2006) and knows that he's not checkin' off.
 
swtbound07 said:
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.
Click to expand...

I too heard Spencer Tillman say this, but I actually saw the play live (in person), and reviewed it repeatedly on DVR.
Tillman was wrong. Andre was not wide open. The defender broke his coverge from AJ when the ball was thrown.

As to your first question, I agree that it can't be called a knee jerk reaction.
The truth is that you had negative expectaions of Carr going in and those expectations skewed your objectivity. IMO
 
Originally Posted by swtbound07
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.
Click to expand...

How do you know that he did not progress through his reads, Moulds could have been the 1st option and was open so Carr threw to him. Do you have some insight to the Texans' playbook? Have you talked to Kubiak about this? Or is this just your opinion? And I will be analyzing the game tomorrow and I will come back and post up every mistake Sage made in the game.
 
swtbound07 said:
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.
Click to expand...

It might be a tactic. we might be trying to prove that andre won't be our only target this season. we might be trying to get extra defenders on Eric to leave dre open to take one to the house.

and i'll post this again because i think it's spot on.

michaelm said:
I too heard Spencer Tillman say this, but I actually saw the play live (in person), and reviewed it repeatedly on DVR.
Tillman was wrong. Andre was not wide open. The defender broke his coverge from AJ when the ball was thrown.

As to your first question, I agree that it can't be called a knee jerk reaction.
The truth is that you had negative expectaions of Carr going in and those expectations skewed your objectivity. IMO
Click to expand...
 
Wow, you just gave him another excuse to pull the "excuse card" There are many hypotheticals any of them could be right.

1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.
Click to expand...
is a hyporthetical also, we don't know if Carr progressed through his reads and I've seen a post where someone said that after re-watching the game that AJ was not wide open and that the person guarding him left him after Carr threw. Then again, I don't know for sure because I dont get the oppurtunity to rewatch the game. So my point might be declared invalid then.... go Q. Porter!!!
 
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.
Click to expand...
Good points TC...
 
Texans_Chick said:
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.
Click to expand...

Thank you for adding some sanity into this thread...
 
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.
 
Brandon420tx said:
I've seen a post where someone said that after re-watching the game that AJ was not wide open and that the person guarding him left him after Carr threw.
Click to expand...

I am the one who said this and I re-watched a few times since then.
I can add some additional info on this play.

KC was in some type of man/zone. I'm not a person who can break it down into specific defensive sets, but I saw an earlier mention of a kind of cover two, maybe it was.


In any event, the LBs all dropped back immediately after they made the pass read, leaving the middle/underneth completely vacated.

Walter, lined up in the slot (as well as the strong side) did a streak and helped clear out as Moulds did a five yard square in.
Moulds had about a five yard cushion from the nearest defender. He was wide open. WIDE open.

On the other side of the field, AJ had man coverage from the corner who did a poor job jamming AJ at the line, but did stay with AJ until the pass was away.

The saftey on AJ's side started the play with his hips open toward AJ leading me to believe that he was helping the corner on that side.
At the snap, that safety turns even more towards AJ's direction as he drops back and out of camera view.
I have no doubt based on his actions that he was providing help over the top, so even if AJ would've beaten his man, he still had another defender to contend with.

I am not a football pro by any stretch of the imagination, but there is no man on earth, qualified or otherwise, that can tell me that AJ was wide open on that play.
At best, he was behind his man/had a step on his man/had his man in his hip pocket, etc... but the corner had help, bottom line.

It was a good read, a good pass, and the best available option on that play.

Period.
 
Texans_Chick said:
even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.
Click to expand...


By now this thread has, for me, evolved into a discussion of DC's play.
I am not addressing my comments toward the original silly question about Sage starting as much as i am trying to give an opinion of the specifics of DC's play.
 
Toro said:
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.
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ouch........ good point.
 
Toro said:
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.
Click to expand...
Truthfully, never even heard of him till we got him...
 
Toro said:
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.
Click to expand...

Thank you for reinforcing my point. He's not even glorifying a Training Camp Hero as much as he's just hatin' on DC.

Hell even some Dolphins fan said Rosenfels does this every year, lights it up in training camp.
 
it just swt, he thought all his dreams would come true when they picked Vince no.1 but they didnt and he cant stand having to watch Carr another year, possibly 3. he's consistently trying to conVINCE everyone we should start anyone but Carr. :stirpot:

oh wait thats SWT's moniker, sorry dude :sarcasm:
 
swtbound07 said:
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.
Click to expand...
Rosenfels played well, but then he hasn't been the tackling dummy for the NFL for the past 2 seasons either... could rosenfels have taken the same punishment for 2 seasons and still play well, or even play at all? As I said before, Carr was not ruined overnight, and he won't be cured overnight, but after the punishment he has endured, he has more than earned the right to try.

I hope Rosenfels continues to play well, and gets a lot of playing time in the preseason. It does 4 things... removes any doubt that Carr might have about his team, sharpens Rosenfels game, helps Carr avoid injury, and gives some healthy competition to DC.
 
swtbound07 said:
So again I beg the question...why would anybody have a problem with rosenfels starting against the first team next preseason game. What could it hurt?
Click to expand...

i thought we were trying to avoid another 2-14 season and not be the trailer trash of the nfl...thats why!!!
 
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