No Interest In Walker Or Wells?

[disaacks3]

A.) Choosing a guy you know better is simply nepotism, plain and simple. Seems to me that you must put that kind of stuff aside and go with the better player. Looking at Ragone's success, it seems that Kubiak did not make this decision based on pootential. BTW, Ragone was in NFL Europe, not the Arena League. For more info on NFL Europe: http://www.footballstories.com/articles/opinion.asp?ArtID=162

I'm well aware that NFLE isn't the Arena league, but it's not NFL-caliber competition either. (I'll save the sarcasm of replying w/ a link to the NFL homepage) I was also surprised that Ragone didn't get more of a "look" after his success w/ the Thunder, but both our old / new coaching staffs saw something that made them BOTH take a different choice. (Capers in regular season / Kubiak in off-season) Besides, for Kubiak's purposes / scheme, who says that Rosenfels isn't the better player?

Arguing that you don't get players who fit "your" scheme is disingenuous. If I'm Gary Kubiak, and it's MY career riding on these choices, I'm going to pick the best guys to ensure MY success...to hell w/ what the fans think the first off-season. Winning will deliver the throngs back to the stadium, no matter what the names on the backs of the jerseys are.

 

[Bobo]

nepotize this bobo- Ragone does not fit Kubiak's system. so here is what you do, wish him luck with another team and hope the best for both parties involved. end of discussion

Wells is a back-up, you said it yourself. seems to me like the Texans are loaded already in this area

Gaffney, Smaffney I only miss the fact that the Texans could have drafted better with the 1st overall pick of the 2nd round in 2002. he had four years of productive yet un-inspiring numbers, to lump him in the same category with Moulds is your mistake

And what if Kubiak were to say that AJ "doesn't fit his system" either? Or what if he says the same about Davis? Or D-Rob? When are you going to start saying, "Hmm ... perhaps this kind of rationalization isn't all that wise?" And if the Texans are "loaded" at backup RB already, then why is Kubiak still out there trying out RBs? Seems to me that either he doesn't believe that or he's confused. As for Gaffney, ever wonder WHY he wasn't more productive? After all, he ranked near the top in percentage of passes dropped. I will agree with you here, though. To lump in a young guy who was a victim of poor pass protection in the same category as an old guy who is decreasing in effectiveness due to age and has bitten off a big section of the salary camp is indeed a mistake. But it isn't mine.

 

[Bobo]

I'm well aware that NFLE isn't the Arena league, but it's not NFL-caliber competition either. (I'll save the sarcasm of replying w/ a link to the NFL homepage) I was also surprised that Ragone didn't get more of a "look" after his success w/ the Thunder, but both our old / new coaching staffs saw something that made them BOTH take a different choice. (Capers in regular season / Kubiak in off-season) Besides, for Kubiak's purposes / scheme, who says that Rosenfels isn't the better player?

Arguing that you don't get players who fit "your" scheme is disingenuous. If I'm Gary Kubiak, and it's MY career riding on these choices, I'm going to pick the best guys to ensure MY success...to hell w/ what the fans think the first off-season. Winning will deliver the throngs back to the stadium, no matter what the names on the backs of the jerseys are.

NFL Europe is where the NFL sends players to get seasoned for preparation in the NFL. If NFL Europe was meaningless, then why does the NFL send so many folks over there? As for why Ragone didn't get a shot last year, it was obvious that Capers was fighting for his job and wanted to put his best players in there. But Capers was wise enough to not cut him. Kubiak wasn't. The fact is that Rosenfels hasn't done a thing on any football field since going into the NFL. It really is a hard sell to prefer Rosenfels over Ragone and seems to me to be a desperate effort to defend a bad move by Kubiak. And like I said, the system argument holds no water. You can use that excuse to cut anybody, be it Davis or AJ or anybody. Would you accept that argument if Kubiak axed one of those guys? You take the best players with the most potential and the most talent. Ragone has exhibited more talent on the football field and much more potential than Rosenfels. I refuse to buy that "system" argument since it is nothing more than an excuse to make questionable player personnel decisions. You cannot tell me you feel better with Rosenfels as the backup than Ragone. As far as attendance at the games go, seems to me that true fans will be there, win or lose.

 

[MorKnolle]

1.) Um, the fact that the Colts were waiting right behind the Bengals to grab him proves that Ragone was more than a toss away. Reggie McNeal, as I recall, is a WR now and both Johnson and Wright have not been all that successful. To think that Ragone won't be given a great chance of backing up Palmer is unrealistic. Besides, if the Bengals were really happy with what they had, they wouldn't have picked up Ragone. And if the Bengals didn't grab him, the Colts would have. To say that Ragone "isn't that good" is kind of silly, seeing that he had great success in NFL Europe and got very little experience when he was with the team. Ragone is a lot better than you are willing to give him credit for. Besides, Sage Rosenfels certainly is no Pro Bowler. It isn't wise to simply toss a good prospect aside simply because he supposedly doesn't fit your system. Under that reasoning, you could cut anybody. Heaven forbid if the Texans had Matt Linart on their squad! After all, he's a drop back passer as well. Guess he wouldn't make the cut, either.
2.) How many times does Martz have to mention the fact that Bradford is the #2 guy? In fact, I think he has mentioned it on more than one occasion. The fact is, he is the WR#2 at this moment, ahead of two first-round draft picks. I wouldn't say this "doesn't mean a thing." What it DOES mean is that he is the WR#2 guy right now and has to be beaten out for that position. 3.) It seems to me that you are kind of straining as you try to defend some of Kubiak's questionable personnel decisions. Most folks would admit that getting rid of a guy who starred in NFL Europe and showed some promise should be kept over a guy who hasn't done anything on the football field at all during his career and is just one injury away from taking over. And it really is a tough sell to say that a guy who your team cut and is now a WR#2 guy over two first-rounders "doesn't mean a thing." That seems to me to be the definition of "denial."

1) And what exactly has Ragone proven other than against NFLE competition that would get beat by any decent D1 school? You don't need a pro bowler as your backup QB, that would be stupid to waste a guy of that caliber on the bench, not to mention the money that goes along with it. You establish a system, then find people to fit that system, hence we would not have drafted Matt Leinart since he doesn't really fit out system. You don't just keep mediocre-at-best players around that don't fit your system when you can find other guys that are just as good talent-wise that fit your system better. Yes you can cut anybody, that is the prerogative of the GM and coaching staff. If they don't fit what you are trying to do then you try to trade them if you can get anything in return, and if no one is willing to give you any trade then you cut him.

2) Martz has only mentioned Cory Bradford once. How does anyone know that Martz is even serious about this and not blowing smoke to other teams or trying to motivate his underachieving rookies. There is no way Bradford has as much talent as Mike Williams or Charles Rogers, but they are both very young receivers that have not lived up to expectations so far, so of course you're not going to instantly give them a starting job, you want them to go out and earn it.

3) I don't have to defend Kubiak's personnel decisions. Running the #1 offense over the last 11 years and winning 3 Super Bowls is enough of a track record for me to trust him and his decisions.

I have complete faith in his system, and if we have players left over from a 2-14 season that he doesn't think fit his system then I am perfectly fine with him getting rid of them. If for some reason he didn't think Andre Johnson fit his system then I'd be fine with him letting Andre go, although he could at least get a nice trade package for Andre, unlike Ragone, Wells, Walker, and any of the other refuse he has cut loose thusfar. I'm amazed that you are so infatuated with Ragone just because he had good success in NFL Europe. Any decent school from a BCS conference would be able to beat any NFL Europe team, so succeeding over there means very little, and Sage Rosenfels has accomplished more during his actual NFL career than Ragone has.

Bottom line, if Gary Kubiak can watch a bunch of tape on Dave Ragone and personally observe him in practice for two weeks and decides he isn't a guy for his system then I am all for releasing him. That is much more exposure to Ragone than you and 99% of the other people in this world have seen of him, so I'd say Kubiak is in much better of a position to judge Ragone than any of us, not to mention his coaching experience gives him a definite advantage over us too.

Using Cory Bradford is not much of an argument either, it speaks more of the stupidity of draft decision of the Lions than it does for us releasing him. You yourself said you were not happy with Bradford, and I don't know of a single person on this message board that can honestly say they wished he was still here for next season, so we are suddenly supposed to feel bad that he is named the #2 WR on a different team?? We'll see once the season rolls around, if Bradford is still their #2 WR and actually puts up a decent season and outperforms Moulds and Walters then I guess we can maybe feel some kind of remorse for Kubiak's decision, but until then let's not criticize Kubiak for something so silly.

Bradford did nothing to draw attention away from Andre last year, even commentators during the game said defenses didn't need to bother guarding Bradford because he guarded himself by dropping so many passes. Now we have a Pro Bowler as our #2 WR that will definitely draw some attention away from Andre, or else put up 90 catches for 1400 yards if teams refuse to respect him. I'm not at all questioning that decision. I would not have minded seeing Gaffney stick around but I guess he didn't particularly want to stay and they didn't want to pay much money for him to stay, and I believe we have a significant upgrade over him right now so I'm not particularly hurt by his departure either.

 

[hellojohnnyboi]

2. Jonathan Wells, even in an "RB-friendly, Denver-zone-blocking" offense wasn't good enough to keep. He was a decent 3rd-down back, but his speed is FAR from special.

Yea, umm buddy, not trying to be too critical, but until last year Ron Dayne was a decent 3rd down back, picked up by the broncos due to injuries in the RB depth and also to do a little bit of blocking... Dayne then single handidly tore up the COWBOYS and ran for 98 yards on them...slow old Ron Dayne, gaining yards (and pounds) in the Kubiak system......

ANYONE CAN RUN IN DENVERS SYSTEM.....THATS WHY IT IS SO GREAT....THATS WHY WE PASSED ON REGGIE BUSH....BECAUSE IN THE DENVER RUNNING/ZONE BLOCKING SCHEME, YOU COULD STICK A GUY LIKE JONATHON WELLS BACK THERE AND HE IS ABLE TO POTENTIALLY HAVE A CAREER GAME ANY NIGHT!

 

[disaacks3]

Yea, umm buddy, not trying to be too critical, but until last year Ron Dayne was a decent 3rd down back, picked up by the broncos due to injuries in the RB depth and also to do a little bit of blocking... Dayne then single handidly tore up the COWBOYS and ran for 98 yards on them...slow old Ron Dayne, gaining yards (and pounds) in the Kubiak system......

What IS it w/ you "he was great in 1-2 games guys? Both Dayne & Wells had their shot at #1 RB and they both whiffed.

I'm more interested in the other 172 yards that Dayne had last year over 9 other games.

Geez guys, Lendale White had a great game against Texas, but look where HIS stock went.

It's Kubiak's team to construct - I'm pretty sure that he can't do worse than last year's squad.

 

[Bobo]

1) And what exactly has Ragone proven other than against NFLE competition that would get beat by any decent D1 school? You don't need a pro bowler as your backup QB, that would be stupid to waste a guy of that caliber on the bench, not to mention the money that goes along with it. You establish a system, then find people to fit that system, hence we would not have drafted Matt Leinart since he doesn't really fit out system. You don't just keep mediocre-at-best players around that don't fit your system when you can find other guys that are just as good talent-wise that fit your system better. Yes you can cut anybody, that is the prerogative of the GM and coaching staff. If they don't fit what you are trying to do then you try to trade them if you can get anything in return, and if no one is willing to give you any trade then you cut him.

2) Martz has only mentioned Cory Bradford once. How does anyone know that Martz is even serious about this and not blowing smoke to other teams or trying to motivate his underachieving rookies. There is no way Bradford has as much talent as Mike Williams or Charles Rogers, but they are both very young receivers that have not lived up to expectations so far, so of course you're not going to instantly give them a starting job, you want them to go out and earn it.

3) I don't have to defend Kubiak's personnel decisions. Running the #1 offense over the last 11 years and winning 3 Super Bowls is enough of a track record for me to trust him and his decisions.

I have complete faith in his system, and if we have players left over from a 2-14 season that he doesn't think fit his system then I am perfectly fine with him getting rid of them. If for some reason he didn't think Andre Johnson fit his system then I'd be fine with him letting Andre go, although he could at least get a nice trade package for Andre, unlike Ragone, Wells, Walker, and any of the other refuse he has cut loose thusfar. I'm amazed that you are so infatuated with Ragone just because he had good success in NFL Europe. Any decent school from a BCS conference would be able to beat any NFL Europe team, so succeeding over there means very little, and Sage Rosenfels has accomplished more during his actual NFL career than Ragone has.

Bottom line, if Gary Kubiak can watch a bunch of tape on Dave Ragone and personally observe him in practice for two weeks and decides he isn't a guy for his system then I am all for releasing him. That is much more exposure to Ragone than you and 99% of the other people in this world have seen of him, so I'd say Kubiak is in much better of a position to judge Ragone than any of us, not to mention his coaching experience gives him a definite advantage over us too.

Using Cory Bradford is not much of an argument either, it speaks more of the stupidity of draft decision of the Lions than it does for us releasing him. You yourself said you were not happy with Bradford, and I don't know of a single person on this message board that can honestly say they wished he was still here for next season, so we are suddenly supposed to feel bad that he is named the #2 WR on a different team?? We'll see once the season rolls around, if Bradford is still their #2 WR and actually puts up a decent season and outperforms Moulds and Walters then I guess we can maybe feel some kind of remorse for Kubiak's decision, but until then let's not criticize Kubiak for something so silly.

Bradford did nothing to draw attention away from Andre last year, even commentators during the game said defenses didn't need to bother guarding Bradford because he guarded himself by dropping so many passes. Now we have a Pro Bowler as our #2 WR that will definitely draw some attention away from Andre, or else put up 90 catches for 1400 yards if teams refuse to respect him. I'm not at all questioning that decision. I would not have minded seeing Gaffney stick around but I guess he didn't particularly want to stay and they didn't want to pay much money for him to stay, and I believe we have a significant upgrade over him right now so I'm not particularly hurt by his departure either.

1.) Again, you are struggling to defend an obviously bad move by Kubiak. To agree with that "he doesn't fit my system" argument is to excuse any and all bad personnel decisions the current staff makes. I'm not going to buy into that folly. To say you'd approve of the axing of AJ simply because Kubiak says he doesn't fit the system is akin to drinking Kubiak Kool-Aid. This guy has done absolutely nothing as a head coach to deserve that kind of trust. It makes me think that you might be a relative of his or something. 2.) Nobody says NFL Europe is the NFL. But that is where the NFL sends their players for seasoning. There are a lot of NFL players who go over there, thus the competition is amongst NFLers. 3.) Like I said, how many times does Martz have to mention Bradford as the WR#2 guy? I find it kind of interesting that you think Martz might be "blowing smoke." Sounds like you're into conspiracy theories. 4.) Umm, making first-round draft choices immediate starters happens all the time. Remember that guy named Roy Williams? And how about that guy named Randy Moss? That argument just doesn't fly. The facts are this: Bradford is currently higher on the depth chart than two previous first-round draft choices. 5.) If you don't have to defend Kubiak, why are you doing it? Kubiak has never been a head coach of anything, so I wouldn't run around giving him a lot of credit for Shanahan's achievement. Kubiak is the head coach now, not the OC. And I notice nobody seems to mention his years with Brian Griese and his team's many humiliations in the playoffs.

 

[infantrycak]

Bobo, I will give you this--you are the best troll we have. Articulate, good football knowledge--all the worst things you could want in someone just stirring the pot. All it really comes down to is every time the scale comes down for balance, you stick your finger on it to be a downer to stir things up. But hey, small pleasures I guess--I'd rather be on the MB for a team I wanted to win.

 

[MorKnolle]

1.) Again, you are struggling to defend an obviously bad move by Kubiak. To agree with that "he doesn't fit my system" argument is to excuse any and all bad personnel decisions the current staff makes. I'm not going to buy into that folly. To say you'd approve of the axing of AJ simply because Kubiak says he doesn't fit the system is akin to drinking Kubiak Kool-Aid. This guy has done absolutely nothing as a head coach to deserve that kind of trust. It makes me think that you might be a relative of his or something. 2.) Nobody says NFL Europe is the NFL. But that is where the NFL sends their players for seasoning. There are a lot of NFL players who go over there, thus the competition is amongst NFLers. 3.) Like I said, how many times does Martz have to mention Bradford as the WR#2 guy? I find it kind of interesting that you think Martz might be "blowing smoke." Sounds like you're into conspiracy theories. 4.) Umm, making first-round draft choices immediate starters happens all the time. Remember that guy named Roy Williams? And how about that guy named Randy Moss? That argument just doesn't fly. The facts are this: Bradford is currently higher on the depth chart than two previous first-round draft choices. 5.) If you don't have to defend Kubiak, why are you doing it? Kubiak has never been a head coach of anything, so I wouldn't run around giving him a lot of credit for Shanahan's achievement. Kubiak is the head coach now, not the OC. And I notice nobody seems to mention his years with Bob Griese and his team's many humiliations in the playoffs.

I have grown tired of trying to argue with such nonsensical points that are consistently being made. If you distrust Kubiak so much for getting rid of a few poor players that don't fit the system that he has established as a very good offensive system for over a decade then obviously you need to go into coaching yourself because you must know better than all of us including Gary Kubiak and Mike Sherman.

BTW, Bob Griese played in the late 1960's and 1970's.

 

[Bobo]

Bobo, I will give you this--you are the best troll we have. Articulate, good football knowledge--all the worst things you could want in someone just stirring the pot. All it really comes down to is every time the scale comes down for balance, you stick your finger on it to be a downer to stir things up. But hey, small pleasures I guess--I'd rather be on the MB for a team I wanted to win.

Not a troll -- just a dose of reality.

 

[infantrycak]

Not a troll -- just a dose of reality.

The day you admit your true allegiance, you can be an opposing fan injecting a dose of reality. Until then, you are trolling under a guise. But like I said, a high quality troll.

 

[Bobo]

I have grown tired of trying to argue with such nonsensical points that are consistently being made. If you distrust Kubiak so much for getting rid of a few poor players that don't fit the system that he has established as a very good offensive system for over a decade then obviously you need to go into coaching yourself because you must know better than all of us including Gary Kubiak and Mike Sherman.

BTW, Bob Griese played in the late 1960's and 1970's.

1.) Ragone, Bradford, and Gaffney were NOT "poor" players, at least according to the Bengals/Colts, Lions and Eagles. 2.) I notice you once again didn't mention the humiliations in the playoffs, his 6-10 record in 1999, and his 8-8 record in 2001. He certainly wasn't Midas. 3.) What was Mike Sherman's record in GB last year again?

 

[Bobo]

The day you admit your true allegiance, you can be an opposing fan injecting a dose of reality. Until then, you are trolling under a guise. But like I said, a high quality troll.

I am a Texans season ticket holder, and have been for the last four years. I have stated my allegiance before. For four years I was a Texans fan but now I am just an NFL fan. I have no allegiance to any team -- I just enjoy watching NFL football. Of course, I have said that on several occasions. Criticism is not equivalent to trolling. If that were the case, then this board had a slew of trolls after the second game of the season last year.

 

[infantrycak]

I am a Texans season ticket holder, and have been for the last four years. I have stated my allegiance before. For four years I was a Texans fan but now I am just an NFL fan. I have no allegiance to any team -- I just enjoy watching NFL football. Of course, I have said that on several occasions.

Yeah, you have said that several times. Of course you have never explained sharing an IP address with a long term Titans fan of the same screen name. Funny how that all seems to fit together. But hey, maybe it isn't your internet DNA that just happens to fit with the motive, opportunity and crime. We'll just all trust your Capers is god, all was well with the Texans point of view as entirely honest.

 

[MorKnolle]

1.) Ragone, Bradford, and Gaffney were NOT "poor" players, at least according to the Bengals/Colts, Lions and Eagles. 2.) I notice you once again didn't mention the humiliations in the playoffs, his 6-10 record in 1999, and his 8-8 record in 2001. He certainly wasn't Midas. 3.) What was Mike Sherman's record in GB last year again?

1) Just because one team picked them up doesn't mean they are suddenly awesome players. Is there a single person on this message board, in the Texans organization, or any Texans fan in general that appreciated Cory Bradford's production over the last four years and wishes that we had kept him around? Where would he be on our current roster? #4 WR at best. So why should we suddenly be torn up over his departure because some other team decided to scoop him up and their new OC said one time that as of right now he sees him above two underachieving WRs that they drafted in the 1st round recently? Why should we be upset that Dave Ragone was cut when we have seen 0 production out of him in three years in the NFL and that two different coaching staffs have not trusted him enough to play him? The previous staff 1) is in the NFL unlike yourself, so they must understand football better than you do, 2) saw Ragone every single day in practice for 3 years and apparently saw nothing in him that provoked them to play him. Kubiak has undoubtedly watched several tapes on him from previous practices and saw him in person for two weeks of practices this year. If Kubiak did not like what he saw from Ragone in all of those then why should we be upset after he gets cut? Just because one other team signed him along with three other rejects to compete for their backup position? What kind of reasoning is that to mistrust our coaching staff? And you say my arguments are struggling?

2) Let's see, during Kubiak's 11 years there the Broncos went 114-62, made the playoffs 7 times, won 2 Super Bowls, and were ranked the #1 overall offense in terms of yards gained and points scored over those 11 years. Damn, that is a crappy resume for an offensive coach, I wish you were our coach so you could make personnel decisions and guide our team. Their 6-10 record was the year after one of the most prolific QBs in NFL history retired, and they still managed the 13th ranked offense.

3) Holy ****, Mike Sherman's record over six years in Green Bay is only 57-39 (including last year's 4-12 in which half of their starters missed significant time with injuries, so he was 53-27 before last season) with four playoff appearances and three division titles, he must be a crappy coach that we should all distrust.

This is possibly the most ridiculous argument I've seen on this MB among the long laundry list of past ineptitudes.

 

[cuppacoffee]

NFL Europe is where the NFL sends players to get seasoned for preparation in the NFL. If NFL Europe was meaningless, then why does the NFL send so many folks over there?

Has it ever occurred to you that just maybe the NFL isn't sending players to NFLE to get 'seasoned'.

Maybe they are seasoning new fans in Europe hoping to build a fan base there with an eye to expanding into Europe.

Why is the NFL playing regular season games in Mexico? Its all about the fans, not the players.


Just maybe?

 

[beerlover]

great another indifferent fan in the seats (or not @ Relient) throw some cold coffee on this poor soul, his illusionary conspiracy theory of the Texans demise because of losing players such as Ragone, Bradford, Gaffney & Walker for Sage Rosenfels (who has looked very good in OTA) Eric Moulds, Jeb Putzier & Anthony Weaver has promted this user, for the first time to apply the ignore feature of this board because this is absoulte nonsense

 

[Jwwillis]

Joppru has to be the biggest dissapointment in team history

Nope....Tony Boselli

 

[Bobo]

Has it ever occurred to you that just maybe the NFL isn't sending players to NFLE to get 'seasoned'.

Maybe they are seasoning new fans in Europe hoping to build a fan base there with an eye to expanding into Europe.

Why is the NFL playing regular season games in Mexico? Its all about the fans, not the players.


Just maybe?

More than 200 NFL players were on NFL Europe rosters last season. Sounds like more than just a little cannon fodder to me.

http://www.nfl.com/nfleurope

 

[Bobo]

great another indifferent fan in the seats (or not @ Relient) throw some cold coffee on this poor soul, his illusionary conspiracy theory of the Texans demise because of losing players such as Ragone, Bradford, Gaffney & Walker for Sage Rosenfels (who has looked very good in OTA) Eric Moulds, Jeb Putzier & Anthony Weaver has promted this user, for the first time to apply the ignore feature of this board because this is absoulte nonsense

So good ole Sage has looked good in OTAs? Great! Give him a bonus and sign him up for an additional five years! When that's the best you can say about a player who's been in the NFL for a number of years now, then you are really stretching it. Oh, BTW. You might try to use the spell check before the ignore feature.

 

[Bobo]

1) Just because one team picked them up doesn't mean they are suddenly awesome players. Is there a single person on this message board, in the Texans organization, or any Texans fan in general that appreciated Cory Bradford's production over the last four years and wishes that we had kept him around? Where would he be on our current roster? #4 WR at best. So why should we suddenly be torn up over his departure because some other team decided to scoop him up and their new OC said one time that as of right now he sees him above two underachieving WRs that they drafted in the 1st round recently? Why should we be upset that Dave Ragone was cut when we have seen 0 production out of him in three years in the NFL and that two different coaching staffs have not trusted him enough to play him? The previous staff 1) is in the NFL unlike yourself, so they must understand football better than you do, 2) saw Ragone every single day in practice for 3 years and apparently saw nothing in him that provoked them to play him. Kubiak has undoubtedly watched several tapes on him from previous practices and saw him in person for two weeks of practices this year. If Kubiak did not like what he saw from Ragone in all of those then why should we be upset after he gets cut? Just because one other team signed him along with three other rejects to compete for their backup position? What kind of reasoning is that to mistrust our coaching staff? And you say my arguments are struggling?

2) Let's see, during Kubiak's 11 years there the Broncos went 114-62, made the playoffs 7 times, won 2 Super Bowls, and were ranked the #1 overall offense in terms of yards gained and points scored over those 11 years. Damn, that is a crappy resume for an offensive coach, I wish you were our coach so you could make personnel decisions and guide our team. Their 6-10 record was the year after one of the most prolific QBs in NFL history retired, and they still managed the 13th ranked offense.

3) Holy ****, Mike Sherman's record over six years in Green Bay is only 57-39 (including last year's 4-12 in which half of their starters missed significant time with injuries, so he was 53-27 before last season) with four playoff appearances and three division titles, he must be a crappy coach that we should all distrust.

This is possibly the most ridiculous argument I've seen on this MB among the long laundry list of past ineptitudes.

1.) Whoa! Wait a minute now! I read all these posts on this board about how losing Wells was nothing much because nobody picked him up, then you say it doesn't mean anything if other teams picked these players up? Which is it? If Martz, who knows just a little bit about offense himself, grabs Bradford and sticks him in as a starting WR ahead of two first-round picks, doncha think it's possible that he might know something that our "illustrious" staff may have missed? And since when does it matter what fans think about a player? As I recall, someone on this board said they'd trade Davis for Bennett and a second rounder. 2.) Ragone was a star in NFL Europe and showed he has potential against other NFL players. A total of 200 NFL players last year were on NFL Europe rosters. To say that Ragone was a smart cut is ludicrous. He has a lot more potential than Sage as he proved against other NFL players. You can't tell me you feel better with Sage as the backup to Carr than Ragone. 3.) A first-year head coach with absolutely no head coaching experience in any capacity should be looked at very closely, and to just back all his questionable moves without any criticism whatsoever is just asking for another Arizona Cards franchise in Houston. 4.) Sherman was run out of GB because he didn't cut it last year. He was only two games better than Capers -- someone I am sure you probably wanted out of Houston -- and he had a lot more horses than did the Texans. 5.) I notice you didn't mention the constant drubbings Denver experienced with Kubiak at the helm in the playoffs. And pardon me if I don't get too excited about SB appearances when he had one of the best QBs ever on his team. I think just about anybody would have had a great offense with John Elway at the helm. Without Elway, as you freely admit, Kubiak wasn't all that great.

 

[Bobo]

Yeah, you have said that several times. Of course you have never explained sharing an IP address with a long term Titans fan of the same screen name. Funny how that all seems to fit together. But hey, maybe it isn't your internet DNA that just happens to fit with the motive, opportunity and crime. We'll just all trust your Capers is god, all was well with the Texans point of view as entirely honest.

Check your facts. I don't share an IP address with a long-term Titans fan. I know you wish I did, but unfortunately it doesn't "fit together" too well.

 

[bigbrewster2000]

A.) The comment about "retirement as a clown" is nonsensical and nothing but an attrempted insult. B.) The belief that Wells and Ragone "no longer fit the system" can be used as an excuse to cut anybody. Cut AJ? Well, he no longer fit our system. Cut Davis? He no longer fits the system. If NFL Europe doesn't mean anything, why do so many NFL teams take advantage of it by sending folks over there for seasoning? The fact that Ragone starred there is not something that should be ignored -- obviously that was proven by the Bengals. C.) As for Gaffney, the fact is he does NOT drop passes. If he wasn't dropping them in 2004, he wasn't dropping them in 05. I could not find stats regarding passes dropped pct., but I have to figure that concentration regarding passes won't change in a year. I would like to see the proof where Gaffney didn't have the concentration to run pass routes. After all, why continue to run routes when your QB has already been sacked? It's one thing to run out a ground ball, but it's another thing to continue running when you've already been declared out. D.) I would say the fact that Bradford is currently #2 WR in Detroit is indeed saying a whole lot when the team drafted WRs as #1 picks for three years in a row. E.) "Get behind our team?" Does that mean not criticizing it? Then why all the flack on Capers after just two games last year, both of which the Texans were not expected to win? Seems to me that this board is not just a place to wave the pom-poms. The criticism of this team is warranted.

You mention 3 of the best players on our team in AJ, DD, And DR. Those guys are not going anywhere. They are far above the talent of the guys that we released. You are complaining like we dropped 4 super stars on their rears. And I gave you actual facts when I stated that Gaffney let more than 1 pass(2) hit him on the shoulder last year without turning around. I am sure that you can get a hold of some game tape. If not, I will try to find it. Eric Moulds has had a few years of declining numbers but also had a first year starter throwing to him last year and if yo look at his numbers after Holcomb started they greatly increased. If you remeber last year we released Bradford and no one wanted him period so we gratefully took him back. And what did he do for us? He dropped pass after pass that would have been a Touchdown or first down. Personally I liked Wells, but if the coach doesn't want him then he doesn't want him. We also have some young players that should do fine in this system (just like every other RB that has been in it.)Sage Rosenfels did start last last year and in his albiet limited experience led the team to a few wins. He has played in more games than Ragone. Kubiak needs a QB that can throw on the run and for Ragone that is not a stregth but a major weakness. And Ragone was not a top 10 pick like Leinart(who can throw on the run BTW) he was a 3rd rounder, so he's a bit easier to let go. Look it stinks to see some of our original guys go but that is the way of the NFL. None of those guys were above better than average players and the guys we have to replace them are at least better than average, and one is a PRO BOWLER who will take tons of pressure off of our other PRO BOWLER.

 

[cuppacoffee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppacoffee
Has it ever occurred to you that just maybe the NFL isn't sending players to NFLE to get 'seasoned'.

Maybe they are seasoning new fans in Europe hoping to build a fan base there with an eye to expanding into Europe.

Why is the NFL playing regular season games in Mexico? Its all about the fans, not the players.


Just maybe? ________________________________________________________________

More than 200 NFL players were on NFL Europe rosters last season. Sounds like more than just a little cannon fodder to me.

http://www.nfl.com/nfleurope

Read my post again, apply a little comprehension to your reading, and then show me where I referred to anyone as cannon fodder.

I think that 'swooooosh' we heard was my post going over your head.

I'll reiterate my theory for you. The NFLE is all about building/developing fans for American football as opposed to European football (soccer to you).

Do you think it would be that difficult for the NFL to organize a minor league system here in the states to season their players? Fans appetites for football is year round. Minor league teams in cities without an NFL team would recieve as much support as NFLE is right now.

It's all about gaining fans. ($)

BTW Attacking beerlovers spelling really aided your argument.

OTOH. How are your Titan rookies doing?

 

[Bobo]

You mention 3 of the best players on our team in AJ, DD, And DR. Those guys are not going anywhere. They are far above the talent of the guys that we released. You are complaining like we dropped 4 super stars on their rears. And I gave you actual facts when I stated that Gaffney let more than 1 pass(2) hit him on the shoulder last year without turning around. I am sure that you can get a hold of some game tape. If not, I will try to find it. Eric Moulds has had a few years of declining numbers but also had a first year starter throwing to him last year and if yo look at his numbers after Holcomb started they greatly increased. If you remeber last year we released Bradford and no one wanted him period so we gratefully took him back. And what did he do for us? He dropped pass after pass that would have been a Touchdown or first down. Personally I liked Wells, but if the coach doesn't want him then he doesn't want him. We also have some young players that should do fine in this system (just like every other RB that has been in it.)Sage Rosenfels did start last last year and in his albiet limited experience led the team to a few wins. He has played in more games than Ragone. Kubiak needs a QB that can throw on the run and for Ragone that is not a stregth but a major weakness. And Ragone was not a top 10 pick like Leinart(who can throw on the run BTW) he was a 3rd rounder, so he's a bit easier to let go. Look it stinks to see some of our original guys go but that is the way of the NFL. None of those guys were above better than average players and the guys we have to replace them are at least better than average, and one is a PRO BOWLER who will take tons of pressure off of our other PRO BOWLER.

1.) Umm, the point is that you can justify any ridiculous player move with the caveat "he didn't fit into the system." I think you realize this. 2.) I don't know what the stats for 2005 were for dropped pass percentage but I do know that in 2004, Gaffney was rated fourth best. Everybody drops a pass, even AJ. But Gaffney drops fewer than most NFL players. And if given a better chance to catch passes without Carr being dumped on the ground, he could do just as well if not better than Moulds -- and for a whole lot less money. BTW, Moulds was a Pro Bowler in 2002. That was back there when the Houston Texans first began play. That was a long time ago. 3.) You seem to be forgetting that Ragone starred in NFL Europe -- a place where 200 players on NFL rosters last year also participated. NFL Europe may not be the NFL, but it certainly isn't chopped liver. You seem to be missing the point that if Houston had Matt Leinart, who was a dropback passer, then using Kubiak's logic he would have been cut as well because he "didn't fit into his system." That is a very dangerous caveat to swallow all the time. You could lose a ton of quality football players if you swallow this Kubiak Kool-Aid.

 

[Bobo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppacoffee
Has it ever occurred to you that just maybe the NFL isn't sending players to NFLE to get 'seasoned'.

Maybe they are seasoning new fans in Europe hoping to build a fan base there with an eye to expanding into Europe.

Why is the NFL playing regular season games in Mexico? Its all about the fans, not the players.


Just maybe? ________________________________________________________________



Read my post again, apply a little comprehension to your reading, and then show me where I referred to anyone as cannon fodder.

I think that 'swooooosh' we heard was my post going over your head.

I'll reiterate my theory for you. The NFLE is all about building/developing fans for American football as opposed to European football (soccer to you).

Do you think it would be that difficult for the NFL to organize a minor league system here in the states to season their players? Fans appetites for football is year round. Minor league teams in cities without an NFL team would recieve as much support as NFLE is right now.

It's all about gaining fans. ($)

BTW Attacking beerlovers spelling really aided your argument.

OTOH. How are your Titan rookies doing?

1.) Oh, I understood your post very clearly. By saying the only reason NFL Europe exists is to build up a fan base in Europe is to say that the NFL teams sending players over there are willing to risk losing more than 200 of their players simply for the heck of it and that it has nothing to do with seasoning whatsoever. I doubt anyone in the NFL believes that. 2.) Well, I find it highly amusing that the guy knows how to operate the ignore button but not the spell check. Spelling does mean something today, you know. And when the guy can't even spell "Reliant," well, that leaves a great deal to be desired.

 

[bigbrewster2000]

1.) Umm, the point is that you can justify any ridiculous player move with the caveat "he didn't fit into the system." I think you realize this. 2.) I don't know what the stats for 2005 were for dropped pass percentage but I do know that in 2004, Gaffney was rated fourth best. Everybody drops a pass, even AJ. But Gaffney drops fewer than most NFL players. And if given a better chance to catch passes without Carr being dumped on the ground, he could do just as well if not better than Moulds -- and for a whole lot less money. BTW, Moulds was a Pro Bowler in 2002. That was back there when the Houston Texans first began play. That was a long time ago. 3.) You seem to be forgetting that Ragone starred in NFL Europe -- a place where 200 players on NFL rosters last year also participated. NFL Europe may not be the NFL, but it certainly isn't chopped liver. You seem to be missing the point that if Houston had Matt Leinart, who was a dropback passer, then using Kubiak's logic he would have been cut as well because he "didn't fit into his system." That is a very dangerous caveat to swallow all the time. You could lose a ton of quality football players if you swallow this Kubiak Kool-Aid.

NOOOOO!!!!!!!

You are choosing to read what you want and discard the rest!!! Leinart, UNLIKE RAGONE can throw on the run, and while Leinart is not mobile in the true sense he can move in the pocket AND THROW ON THE RUN unlike Ragone. I have watched some of the Texans practices in years past(not this year obviously) and Ragone does not throw the ball well when he comes out on a bootleg. That will be alot of our offense this year. I am not forgetting anything. Plus Ragone WAS NOT A 1st ROUNDER. I am giving you facts to backup what I am saying and you are choosing to ignore it. Fine, Moulds has not been in the Pro Bowl since '02 but his production has not dipped dramatically like you say. '03 was down for him because he missed 3 games and he has caught over 80 passes the last 2 seasons. I will happily take that from the #2 on my team. Even in '04 Gaffney and Bradford didn't add up to that many receptions combined. I have given the reasons why these guys don't fit in our system. Do you have any new info to bring to the table or are you going to once again, regurgitate the same post over and over again?

 

[Bobo]

NOOOOO!!!!!!!

You are choosing to read what you want and discard the rest!!! Leinart, UNLIKE RAGONE can throw on the run, and while Leinart is not mobile in the true sense he can move in the pocket AND THROW ON THE RUN unlike Ragone. I have watched some of the Texans practices in years past(not this year obviously) and Ragone does not throw the ball well when he comes out on a bootleg. That will be alot of our offense this year. I am not forgetting anything. Plus Ragone WAS NOT A 1st ROUNDER. I am giving you facts to backup what I am saying and you are choosing to ignore it. Fine, Moulds has not been in the Pro Bowl since '02 but his production has not dipped dramatically like you say. '03 was down for him because he missed 3 games and he has caught over 80 passes the last 2 seasons. I will happily take that from the #2 on my team. Even in '04 Gaffney and Bradford didn't add up to that many receptions combined. I have given the reasons why these guys don't fit in our system. Do you have any new info to bring to the table or are you going to once again, regurgitate the same post over and over again?

You, again, are missing the point. The fact is that this caveat "he doesn't fit in my system" can be used to justify ANY bad player move, be it cutting Ragone or cutting somebody like Leinart by saying he "can't pass on the run." If the facts you are talking about are Leinart being a first rounder, of course that's true but irrelevant when looking at the reasons why Kubiak is cutting good, quality NFL potential. As for Moulds, his yards per catch has dropped significantly and he has only caught 10 TDPs in the last three years. Yeah, he caught a lot of passes in Buffalo as the #1 WR, but his QB was playing behind a totally different line than was Gaffney. Given the same opportunities, I am sure Gaffney would approach the same kind of #s Moulds as the #2 guy in Houston would get and for a whole lot less money. Oh, as far as my repetitiveness goes, I don't believe in doing that -- unless it seems clear to me that a poster hasn't either seen the take or hasn't comprehended it. After all, this is pretty simple to fathom.

 

[bigbrewster2000]

You, again, are missing the point. The fact is that this caveat "he doesn't fit in my system" can be used to justify ANY bad player move, be it cutting Ragone or cutting somebody like Leinart by saying he "can't pass on the run." If the facts you are talking about are Leinart being a first rounder, of course that's true but irrelevant when looking at the reasons why Kubiak is cutting good, quality NFL potential. As for Moulds, his yards per catch has dropped significantly and he has only caught 10 TDPs in the last three years. Yeah, he caught a lot of passes in Buffalo as the #1 WR, but his QB was playing behind a totally different line than was Gaffney. Given the same opportunities, I am sure Gaffney would approach the same kind of #s Moulds as the #2 guy in Houston would get and for a whole lot less money. Oh, as far as my repetitiveness goes, I don't believe in doing that -- unless it seems clear to me that a poster hasn't either seen the take or hasn't comprehended it. After all, this is pretty simple to fathom.

Um I am tired of your banter. You still don't get it. They(the Bills) had a first year starter last year. Look at all of my posts not just my last one.

 

[Bobo]

Um I am tired of your banter. You still don't get it. They(the Bills) had a first year starter last year. Look at all of my posts not just my last one.

The fact that the Bills had a first-year starter last year only hurts your argument even more.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

1.) Umm, the point is that you can justify any ridiculous player move with the caveat "he didn't fit into the system." I think you realize this. 2.) I don't know what the stats for 2005 were for dropped pass percentage but I do know that in 2004, Gaffney was rated fourth best. Everybody drops a pass, even AJ. But Gaffney drops fewer than most NFL players. And if given a better chance to catch passes without Carr being dumped on the ground, he could do just as well if not better than Moulds -- and for a whole lot less money. BTW, Moulds was a Pro Bowler in 2002. That was back there when the Houston Texans first began play. That was a long time ago. 3.) You seem to be forgetting that Ragone starred in NFL Europe -- a place where 200 players on NFL rosters last year also participated. NFL Europe may not be the NFL, but it certainly isn't chopped liver. You seem to be missing the point that if Houston had Matt Leinart, who was a dropback passer, then using Kubiak's logic he would have been cut as well because he "didn't fit into his system." That is a very dangerous caveat to swallow all the time. You could lose a ton of quality football players if you swallow this Kubiak Kool-Aid.

Maybe that's why Matt Leinart wasn't even considered for the first pick? What I'm getting from your arguments is that it wasn't the players, it wasn't the coaching, so what went wrong last season. The fact is we started off with an expansion team and had subpar talent at A LOT of postitions. Your going to find that as the team grows and gains more players that some others are going to get replaced(that's called an upgrade). See what happens before you label everything this new coaching staff does as a bad decision. I'm not saying everything they are doing is right because I haven't seen the puzzle put together, but I'm having fun watching all the peices being laid out so far.

 

[Beer and Metal]

So good ole Sage has looked good in OTAs? Great! Give him a bonus and sign him up for an additional five years! When that's the best you can say about a player who's been in the NFL for a number of years now, then you are really stretching it. Oh, BTW. You might try to use the spell check before the ignore feature.

I find it humorously ironic when someone criticizes the spelling of another when they are oblivious to their own errors.

 

[Bobo]

Maybe that's why Matt Leinart wasn't even considered for the first pick? What I'm getting from your arguments is that it wasn't the players, it wasn't the coaching, so what went wrong last season. The fact is we started off with an expansion team and had subpar talent at A LOT of postitions. Your going to find that as the team grows and gains more players that some others are going to get replaced(that's called an upgrade). See what happens before you label everything this new coaching staff does as a bad decision. I'm not saying everything they are doing is right because I haven't seen the puzzle put together, but I'm having fun watching all the peices being laid out so far.

Oh, I'm not saying everything they did has been bad. Just the majority. They did correctly keep Carr and draft Mario Williams, but I see those moves as no-brainers that any child with any trace of football knowledge could have made. And yes, I know teams make changes. But exchanging old players like Moulds who chomped out a big part of the salary cap for a guy who rated #4 in dropped passes percentage as well as cutting a backup QB with great potential and a backup RB who proved on the field he could be just fine in a backup role are not the kind of changes you'd classify as smart. To simply sit back and "see what happens" is to give an inexperienced first-year coach free reign to gut the team's future that someone else might very well have to come in and clean up four years from now. No coach is above criticism in regards to player decisions and that especially goes for head coaches with no game experience in that position.

 

[tsip]

:brickwall There is no doubt that we are hearing the phrase 'fit the system' over and over again from the Kubiak camp, virtually every team has one-as did Capers. However, unlike Capers, Kubiaks system is based upon a match between each position and the players filling those positions. Capers was a proponent of the 'round hole/square peg' theory, putting players in a position to fail or have minimum success.

However, as the Patriots have shown over the years with their success, a key element is 'flexibility' in the system. The 'brick wall' concept of doing the same thing over and over again every week (ala Capers) will not work. We don't know yet how effective Kub's game plans will be or how well he and his coaches make 'game time' changes to them, which IMO will determine the success or failure of Kubiak's system. Certainly, there is an element of time here to establish the 'foundation' of the system, but flexibity in building the system for repeated success should be a constant- nothing stays the same forever or even week to week in the NFL.

 

[cuppacoffee]

1.) Oh, I understood your post very clearly. By saying the only reason NFL Europe exists is to build up a fan base in Europe is to say that the NFL teams sending players over there are willing to risk losing more than 200 of their players simply for the heck of it and that it has nothing to do with seasoning whatsoever. I doubt anyone in the NFL believes that. 2.) Well, I find it highly amusing that the guy knows how to operate the ignore button but not the spell check. Spelling does mean something today, you know. And when the guy can't even spell "Reliant," well, that leaves a great deal to be desired.

Swooooooooooooooooosh. Duck!

Risk losing 200 players? Afraid you are going to be kidnapped?
Alien abductions?..Wow

"Simply for the heck of it". Uh..no, its for the purpose of generating interest in American football. Read the post, I never said just for the heck of it.

Sending the regular season starters to Mexico seems a greater risk to me than sending marginal players to Europe.

Your reply only validates my point, you not only didn't understand it very clearly...you didn't understand it at all.

How relevant is spelling on a message board?

No very relevant to me. Why does not spelling Reliant correctly on a message board leave a great deal to be desired?

I'd rather exchange posts' with someone who gets 'it' but might misspell a word or two. But thats just me.

I've tried recently to follow a policy of not getting into exchanges with trolls from other teams, I see now that I should have stuck to that policy.

I think infantrycak is right about you.

 

[tsip]

"No coach is above criticism in regards to player decisions and that especially goes for head coaches with no game experience in that position."

Credibilty is not a requirement to post on these boards, but it would help if your post made sense. First, though Capers failed here (and Carolina) miserably, you defend him to the 'hilt.' And,yes, Kubiak has no 'game experience.' Saying this, you know what Capers did with the Texans did not work in 4 years, and have even defended that he should have had a 5th year (why????????????) but are not even willing to give Kubiak one game. What kind of rationale is that? Capers is a 'given.' Kubiak, for now, is an 'unknown' and -even you- can not change that fact.

 

[Bobo]

"No coach is above criticism in regards to player decisions and that especially goes for head coaches with no game experience in that position."

Credibilty is not a requirement to post on these boards, but it would help if your post made sense. First, though Capers failed here (and Carolina) miserably, you defend him to the 'hilt.' And,yes, Kubiak has no 'game experience.' Saying this, you know what Capers did with the Texans did not work in 4 years, and have even defended that he should have had a 5th year (why????????????) but are not even willing to give Kubiak one game. What kind of rationale is that? Capers is a 'given.' Kubiak, for now, is an 'unknown' and -even you- can not change that fact.

Yep, I agree with your credibility statement -- especially when someone claims a coach who took a team three years from its infancy to the cusp of a .500 season failed "miserably." Yes, you are right. That strains the limits and bounds of credibility. And then that credibility turns into incredulity when that same person says what Capers did "didn't work in four years" -- even though the won-lost record shows improvement steady improvement until last year. Yeah, talk to me about those last two road games in 2004 when the Texans gave up a total of five points. Yeah, whatever Capers did certainly didn't work then. Yeah, right. Yes, Capers is a given. He showed three years of success with a team built from scratch. Kubiak is a neophyte who is doing his best to change what doesn't need to be changed.

 

[Bobo]

Swooooooooooooooooosh. Duck!

Risk losing 200 players? Afraid you are going to be kidnapped?
Alien abductions?..Wow

"Simply for the heck of it". Uh..no, its for the purpose of generating interest in American football. Read the post, I never said just for the heck of it.

Sending the regular season starters to Mexico seems a greater risk to me than sending marginal players to Europe.

Your reply only validates my point, you not only didn't understand it very clearly...you didn't understand it at all.

How relevant is spelling on a message board?

No very relevant to me. Why does not spelling Reliant correctly on a message board leave a great deal to be desired?

I'd rather exchange posts' with someone who gets 'it' but might misspell a word or two. But thats just me.

I've tried recently to follow a policy of not getting into exchanges with trolls from other teams, I see now that I should have stuck to that policy.

I think infantrycak is right about you.

By implying you didn't know what it means to risk losing 200 players in NFL Europe, I think it's clear who is confused in this regard.

 

[Bobo]

:brickwall There is no doubt that we are hearing the phrase 'fit the system' over and over again from the Kubiak camp, virtually every team has one-as did Capers. However, unlike Capers, Kubiaks system is based upon a match between each position and the players filling those positions. Capers was a proponent of the 'round hole/square peg' theory, putting players in a position to fail or have minimum success.

However, as the Patriots have shown over the years with their success, a key element is 'flexibility' in the system. The 'brick wall' concept of doing the same thing over and over again every week (ala Capers) will not work. We don't know yet how effective Kub's game plans will be or how well he and his coaches make 'game time' changes to them, which IMO will determine the success or failure of Kubiak's system. Certainly, there is an element of time here to establish the 'foundation' of the system, but flexibity in building the system for repeated success should be a constant- nothing stays the same forever or even week to week in the NFL.

Whoa, Stonehead! How can you talk about Capers putting square pegs in round holes when he stuck with his players for several years -- which is just what folks are criticizing him about? Then when he started moving folks around on the line, folks criticized him for that! I am amazed at the lack of consistency when it comes to criticizing Capers and backing Kubiak. Folks can criticize and support all they want, but it is remarkable to me when their basis of support is contradictory and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

Doing his best to change what doesn't need to be changed???

So you would have been happy with no moves from last season to this season. I already know you are not a fan of replacing Capers, but you were content with the players on the team? You wanted to go through another season with the same lineup we had last year.

You're loyalty is blind

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

Capers was such a successful coach that upon his realease he was quickly snatched up by how many of the other 8 teams that needed a head coach??? Oh that's right, he's not even a defensive coordinator which is what he's known for.

 

[Brandon420tx]

Whoa, Stonehead! How can you talk about Capers putting square pegs in round holes when he stuck with his players for several years -- which is just what folks are criticizing him about? Then when he started moving folks around on the line, folks criticized him for that! I am amazed at the lack of consistency when it comes to criticizing Capers and backing Kubiak. Folks can criticize and support all they want, but it is remarkable to me when their basis of support is contradictory and makes no sense whatsoever.

Whoa! look, he's comparing s to s again, The square pegs into round holes comment was reffered to the acquisitions of Babin and Peek, *I'm sure there are a few more* the tweeners and taking them out of their natural element and seeing how things work out... Not the O-line which you used in your example. Tweeners and O-Line
The criticism is about him keeping an O-line that was performing less then spectacular and just trying them at different spots... oh wait now I think I see where your trying to get the apples and oranges thing from, because he had gaurds playing tackle *and center* and tackles playing gaurds, which was a coaches decision. But an O-lineman is an O-lineman, they are all round pegs that go into round holes some are just more cylindrical than others.

Note: we need an apples and oranges smiley...

 

[Bobo]

Capers was such a successful coach that upon his realease he was quickly snatched up by how many of the other 8 teams that needed a head coach??? Oh that's right, he's not even a defensive coordinator which is what he's known for.

Wait a minute, Small Timer! Are you saying it's fair to judge someone based on whether they are picked up by another team or not? Be careful how you answer here! Besides, I do believe Capers was up for the Lions job and their were rumors he was the guy for awhile.

 

[Brandon420tx]

Wait a minute, Small Timer! Are you saying it's fair to judge someone based on whether they are picked up by another team or not? Be careful how you answer here! Besides, I do believe Capers was up for the Lions job and their were rumors he was the guy for awhile.

Isn't that what you were saying about Gaffney, Ragone and Bradford?

 

[Bobo]

Doing his best to change what doesn't need to be changed???

So you would have been happy with no moves from last season to this season. I already know you are not a fan of replacing Capers, but you were content with the players on the team? You wanted to go through another season with the same lineup we had last year.

You're loyalty is blind

Umm, I do believe I have made myself clear regarding this. The only problem on the Texans was the OL and defense. You make the OL better and everybody else gets better -- Carr, Gaffney, Davis, AJ -- everybody. There was no need to make many of the changes Kubiak made -- especially Moulds when he cost a boatload of money and is a proven quitter.

 

[Bobo]

Isn't that what you were saying about Gaffney, Ragone and Bradford?

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Be consistent. Folks around here approve of the Wells move because nobody picks him up, then turn around and say that it doesn't matter if a team picks up another player your team cuts and puts them in a prominent position. Which is it?

 

[Wolf]

Isn't that what you were saying about Gaffney, Ragone and Bradford?

exactly, saved me from typing that ...
Capers was part of our "best 53"

 

[Wolf]

Umm, I do believe I have made myself clear regarding this. The only problem on the Texans was the OL and defense. You make the OL better and everybody else gets better -- Carr, Gaffney, Davis, AJ -- everybody. There was no need to make many of the changes Kubiak made -- especially Moulds when he cost a boatload of money and is a proven quitter.

you make the changes to fit your philosophy.. Capers is a 3 yards and a cloud of dust guy, yet what did we do ..we draft #1 overall a QB and #3 overall a WR ...that doesn't fit the Capers philosophy, if it did he would have drafted OL or defense (capers speciality as a DC not HC) and went with a veteran Qb

*edit* I am not bashing our picks, it is just the way we drafted and the way Capers wanted to play doesn't add up)

 

[Brandon420tx]

That's exactly what I'm getting at. Be consistent. Folks around here approve of the Wells move because nobody picks him up, then turn around and say that it doesn't matter if a team picks up another player your team cuts and puts them in a prominent position. Which is it?

No, folks around here approve of the Wells move because they think they are better off at RB currently, many have been looking for him to sign for another team and are wondering why he hasn't. You've been saying it doesn't matter if someone doesn't pick up someone, but then you go around saying we should take notice how other teams quickly took Ragone because that must matter. If we had cut Ragone before FA started how many teams would have bid on him? Alot in my opinion, he was a quality player we cut, and another team took him quickly, thats great for him. Is it fruit day? I'm seeing lots of apples and oranges lately.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

Small Timer?
I'll I'm saying if he was such a great head coach then why was he not sought after more heavily??? Are you using Capers was almost the guy for the Lions as an argument? That's stretching it a little bit