What does that matter? Great ones over come it. You don’t get to play the “CJ is only in year two card” with the season he had his rookie year.
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- Thread starter djohn2oo8
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Name the QBs who are great without 2 full seasons even being played.
So you're saying Pete Carrol & Mike McCarthy and Matt LaFleur are bad coaches?
So you think CJ is great his rookie year? And did every great QB never have a bad year after showing greatness?
Great QBs break records.
CJ has been in the league for ALMOST two seasons.
So far he broke rookie records (that includes QBs that even you would consider great. They also had the chance as rookies to hold those records)
He is having a sophomore slump. Even "great" or even "elite" QBs have off seasons.
So... just to recap... a young man came into the league and killed it making fewer mistakes than your average rookie (proven by the fact he broke records) and in making few mistakes he had fewer opportunities to learn from those mistakes.
This season he has made plenty of mistakes. The question is, will this season break him or give him a chance for exponential growth?
Next season will show us what he is made of... does he rise up like a Phoenix from the ashes if this offensive dumpster fire of a season.... or does he crumble...
But a stellar season followed by a dismal one is no reason to jettison your record holding QB ESPECIALLY while offensive coaching and line are so suspect.
Do great QBs rise above? Absolutely. But in order for a "great QB" to achieve greatness he needs to have experience of being at the top.... but also have experience clawing his way back up from rock bottom.
CJ has been in the league for ALMOST two seasons.
So far he broke rookie records (that includes QBs that even you would consider great. They also had the chance as rookies to hold those records)
He is having a sophomore slump. Even "great" or even "elite" QBs have off seasons.
So... just to recap... a young man came into the league and killed it making fewer mistakes than your average rookie (proven by the fact he broke records) and in making few mistakes he had fewer opportunities to learn from those mistakes.
This season he has made plenty of mistakes. The question is, will this season break him or give him a chance for exponential growth?
Next season will show us what he is made of... does he rise up like a Phoenix from the ashes if this offensive dumpster fire of a season.... or does he crumble...
But a stellar season followed by a dismal one is no reason to jettison your record holding QB ESPECIALLY while offensive coaching and line are so suspect.
Do great QBs rise above? Absolutely. But in order for a "great QB" to achieve greatness he needs to have experience of being at the top.... but also have experience clawing his way back up from rock bottom.
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
Joe Burrow made it to the Super Bowl with a bad OL in his second season.
Then there’s Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes who won the big game in their second season (and are either in the Super Bowl or conference championship basically every season).
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Were they great QBs in those second seasons? Brady didn’t even crack a 90 passer rating until his 4th full season.
And there’s always outliers, Brady was a 6th rounder, blah, blah, so this 6th rounder could be great. Well, maybe, but it’s rare and isn’t the norm. Mahomes, 50 TD in year 2. Outlier. Name the others. CJ is in his second damn season. Last years ROY campaign wasn’t career defining and neither is this years sophomore slump. IT’S YEAR TWO!!
Josh Allen had 30 TD and 21 INT after 2 years. Brees and Peyton weren’t all that after 2 years. And we can go down the list of all the great QBs. Most of the time it takes a minute to become great. The book is still out on CJ.
BullRushTX
To'oTo'o A'go-go
Yes, this is a problem. I've seen several times where he passes up an open 7-yard route for a very iffy 15-20-yard route. Just take what's there. That's what Brady did.
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
The point of being “great” IS being an outlier. You just don’t throw around the term to any good QB.
You asked for examples and I gave an answer. If you want a longer list then just say, “Name good QBs…”
Add Russell Wilson to the list of “good QBs”. He won a Super Bowl in year two and played behind a bad OL.
I am a CJ fan but some people on this board make all the excuses in the world for his performance. Everyone associated with that offense is to blame outside of Nico and Mixon. But CJ is the QB and the leader, if this team is going to do anything in the playoffs besides go out with a whimper then they need him to put on his cape and rise above subpar coaching and OL play. That’s a lot to ask, but that’s what is necessary.
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Yeah. The only good thing about Brady then was his clutch gene, Bill Belichick, & Adam Viniteri. He became a great QB later.
Not you in particular, but what has this thread become? Is djohn arguing Cj is not a great QB? Is everyone else arguing he is?
The thing is we're about to find out. This playoff season is an opportunity for him to define himself. We'll all know one way or another.
& if he doesn't, he'll have next season.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Was Drew Brees a great QB? Peyton Manning? Yes to both, but neither could be called great QBs after 2 years. Josh Allen? Sure, but not after 2 years. That's my point.
You're not a HOF QB from day 1, with very rare exceptions. Mahomes is probably one of those, but that's not the norm and that's not the only way you can be considered a great QB. MOST times it takes time to learn the game and become great.
CJ had a record breaking rookie campaign, and that was great and all, but it did NOT define his career. Sophomore slump is a phrase for a reason, but it also does not define whether you will be a great QB or not. If people expect every rookie to be gold jacket caliber right out of the gate, then disappointment rules their lives. That's not how real life works, even with rare exceptions.
After such a promising season last year, this year has been a big disappointment, and CJ gets a share of the blame for that, no doubt. So there's an added level of frustration playing into all of this from a fans standpoint. Thought we had the next Mahomes, reality stepped in, and here we are. But none of that means CJ is a bust and won't be a great QB. He's 2 years in.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
He's the one who said a great QB overcomes the problems plaguing this team.
And no, I'm not arguing whether CJ is a great QB or not. I'm arguing that nobody knows 2 years into his career.
I believe .... way down deep .... that CJ the Great still remains. He needs 5 studs up front, to allay his fears of failure. He loves this team. He wants to lead them to greatness. But, he's not going to tell them that he needs a high caliber offensive line to succeed. He feels it's his duty to elevate his game to a level that accommodates whatever weaknesses there are on the offense. I know folks are saying that we need this DLman, or that safety, or a wide receiver to replace Tank . but, this is one time, we need to do whatever it takes to field a talented front five. People think that they don't carry the ball, or make the tackles, so they are not that valuable. They are the foundation of the team. They're not pretty .... but neither is the one under the Vanderbilt Cottage in Asheville !
& what we expect. Every one of us. When we watched him last season everyone of us was like, "Finally, we got a QB that over come the BS every NFL team has to put up with & we'll finally be a contender."
Many of us gave up hope that this could be that year. Haven't given up on S2roud, just not going to happen this year.
But technically it can.
TheRealJoker V2
Veteran
A great QB doesn’t need 5 studs up front. A good QB doesn’t even need that.
Tyreke said he was straight trash day 1.
If Cj flips that switch & start playing like he did last year I think we'll know.
If he needs 5 studs up front he's Troy Aikman, not Tom Brady.
This may be the last opportunity to kill'um !!
Nope .... they left the game .... just didn't have it !
TxnsJuggernaut1
All Pro
CJ doesn't deserve excuses when he throws errant passes this season that he completed routinely his rookie season. Also his decision making has been piss poor at times. Regardless of his limited experience those are things that should've been addressed by this time of the season.
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Texazan
Our HOF 34
Not sure who you’re directing this to but he’ll be fine….
TxnsJuggernaut1
All Pro
I am directing my comment to the status quo who say CJ is simply having a sophomore slump. I agree to an extent but as I said there is no excuse for so many errant passes and for poor decisions by this stage in the season. We have a record I expected we would have so I am not all that concerned about his future. He has all next season to work on his game. Still this season doesn't have to be a one and done season if CJ can right the ship in time for the playoffs. There is no reason he can't do just a little bit better. I don't expect people to start sizing him up for Canton at this stage in his career but there is no reason that typical completions that he has missed out on far too often can't become routine completions this season. Also his decision making should improve before THIS season is over! To me there are many factors in regards to the offenses struggles but CJ should play better regardless. Here's hoping he will adjust THIS season and give us our best chance at making any kind of run in the playoffs. Other factors need to improve but my focus is on seeing better play from CJ! I have said CJ gets a solid C grade in my opinion!
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One thing nobody can debate is CJ's been very avg this yr.
Did you learn this looking at a spreadsheet?
The clutch gene is the thing that makes greatness.
Agreed and I will make a case for a strong front 6, because the TE is a big part of the succes of a ZBS scheme.
Now let's pull a CJ and cry on this for a bit.
Porky
Hall of Fame
CJ showed last year he had that clutch gene. This year not so much. I think CJ wants to be great. He is a hard worker. But I think it came too easily last year. Now he has been humbled. I’d bet a can of RC Cola we will see a CJ in 2025 more resembling 2023 than 2024.
One thing I’m really liking about CJ is his durabilty. Outside of getting planted a foot deep in concrete in NJ, CJ has been extremely durable to this point. Your best ability is your availability. Nobody here knows what CJ will become, but I’m very bullish.
One thing I’m really liking about CJ is his durabilty. Outside of getting planted a foot deep in concrete in NJ, CJ has been extremely durable to this point. Your best ability is your availability. Nobody here knows what CJ will become, but I’m very bullish.