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New Defense

So question, seeing as coaching wise most of our experience seems to be on the defense side and given the situation with Watson does anybody think the Texans will focus on being a defense first team again? We will most likely lose Watt but both sides have to be rebuilt anyway. If they go that route then an elite, franchise QB is more a luxury that a need. You mostly use a game manager that can score a few points and not turn the ball over which might fit a rookie QB or tier 2 QB better.
 
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Double Barrel

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You Run, or You Don't Play
According to Bowen, every NFL defense meets and talks about how they want to get turnovers. But Lovie Smith defenses are different. Turning the ball over, and scoring off of those turnovers, is a part of everything the team does in practice.

Bowen explained this best in an article for the Chicago Tribune, when he said "It doesn't matter if a ball falls off the back of an equipment truck," because someone from the Bears would scoop it up and score.

That means running, and a lot of it. Because picking up a loose football and returning it isn't a one-man job for Smith's teams. Every time a ball hits the turf, one man picks it up, while the rest of the team start to form a blocking convoy and set up for a score. And if you don't? You don't play, Bowen said.


Even walkthroughs are spent with running backs facing active-handed defenders trying to strip the ball away and score. Every moment of a Buccaneer practice this summer will be focused on scoring on defense. It's a part of the defensive DNA for Smith and his teams.

So why do players buy into this? Because everyone has a chance to make a play in Lovie's scheme. According to Bowen, on any given third down, any player might be the one to make a big play and change the course of the game. It's 11 players working together and filling their gaps, covering their ground, and using the right techniques that makes the Lovie Smith defense so well-respected and unique.
That's awesome! I absolutely love having a great defense as a fan. And reading this gets me pumped up about potential going forward. Thanks for posting this stuff.

So question, seeing as coaching wise most of our experience seems to be on the defense side and given the situation with Watson does anybody think the Texans will focus on being a defense first team again? We will most likely lose Watt but both sides have to be rebuilt anyway. If they go that route then an elite, franchise QB is more a luxury that a need. You mostly use a game manager that can score a few points and not turn the ball over which might fit a rookie QB or tier 2 QB better.
This is what I think we will see from the Texans, as well. Build the core and work outward. The Texans have had a couple of periods with solid defenses. Capers had one that even set records, pretty much winning a game against the Steelers without the Texans offense involved. And, of course, Wade's defense was a blast to watch. At least until they went high school and played the Patriots with that attitude.

Maybe they've got plan A/B for Kelly. Watson stays, he's got his OC. Watson goes, and we've got an OC that has experience developing a rookie QB.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You Run, or You Don't Play
According to Bowen, every NFL defense meets and talks about how they want to get turnovers. But Lovie Smith defenses are different. Turning the ball over, and scoring off of those turnovers, is a part of everything the team does in practice.

Bowen explained this best in an article for the Chicago Tribune, when he said "It doesn't matter if a ball falls off the back of an equipment truck," because someone from the Bears would scoop it up and score.

That means running, and a lot of it. Because picking up a loose football and returning it isn't a one-man job for Smith's teams. Every time a ball hits the turf, one man picks it up, while the rest of the team start to form a blocking convoy and set up for a score. And if you don't? You don't play, Bowen said.


Even walkthroughs are spent with running backs facing active-handed defenders trying to strip the ball away and score. Every moment of a Buccaneer practice this summer will be focused on scoring on defense. It's a part of the defensive DNA for Smith and his teams.

So why do players buy into this? Because everyone has a chance to make a play in Lovie's scheme. According to Bowen, on any given third down, any player might be the one to make a big play and change the course of the game. It's 11 players working together and filling their gaps, covering their ground, and using the right techniques that makes the Lovie Smith defense so well-respected and unique.
Heck if Lovie can get players blocking till the whistle blows He'll deserve a raise in my opinion!
 

steelbtexan

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That's awesome! I absolutely love having a great defense as a fan. And reading this gets me pumped up about potential going forward. Thanks for posting this stuff.



This is what I think we will see from the Texans, as well. Build the core and work outward. The Texans have had a couple of periods with solid defenses. Capers had one that even set records, pretty much winning a game against the Steelers without the Texans offense involved. And, of course, Wade's defense was a blast to watch. At least until they went high school and played the Patriots with that attitude.

Maybe they've got plan A/B for Kelly. Watson stays, he's got his OC. Watson goes, and we've got an OC that has experience developing a rookie QB.
Lovie doesn't have the talent to put together a solid defense next yr. If they can add talent in the draft over the next 2 yrs then they may have a young fast defense. Unfortunately Lovie's version of the tampa 2 is somewhat dated.

Hopefully Kelly/Pep can develop a young QB. I'm really not familiar with Pep or his track record. How have his offenses compared to BOB's offense. Compare it to Lil Shanny's/LaFluer's offense. What type of offense does he run and how compatible is Pep's offense with what Kelly ran last yr?
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
They can't keep Cooks at his current cap hit & franchise tag Fuller. But they can definitely find ways to keep both.

Originally I was set for deep cuts & a thorough housecleaning, but this Watson situation has surely changed how the Texans are going to address this roster.

They've got to find a way to convince Watson they can put a competitive team on the field in 2021.

Most folks won't like it, but this has turned into a retooling year. They have to keep Cooks & Fuller. Dump Cobb & hope QT can keep his sht together for 16 games.

We're going to have to find a capable RB, & hope new coaching improves the OL.

I think we're going to have to rely on scheme along the defensive line allowing Adam's, McKinney, & Cunningham to make plays. & improve our DBs through the draft & FA.

I dont think McKinney fits a Tampa 2. Curious to see what his trade value might be.
 

powda

Let's ride a comet with Jack!
I fully expect him to be cut. He has $8.5M on his contract for 2021, but only $1.5M in guaranteed money left.
He's coming off of a poor year, relative to his salary, so I suspect that he has no real trade value...but even a 7th would be better than nothing in return.

Thanks for the input on his cap. I feel like a 5th round pick would be a reasonable return.
 

thunderkyss

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I fully expect him to be cut. He has $8.5M on his contract for 2021, but only $1.5M in guaranteed money left.
He's coming off of a poor year, relative to his salary, so I suspect that he has no real trade value...but even a 7th would be better than nothing in return.
He's a pro bowler & was hurt with season ending injury in like week 5.
 
McKinney is a poor LB in pass coverage, but before the injury was a very good run stopper.

Tyrell Adams was as good if not better than McKinney, after he went on IR, at a fraction of the salary...so I'm thinking McKinney gets moved or cut. Adams is however a free agent.
Zach Cunningham is younger than McKinney, and costs $18.1M against the cap if cut, but "only" $11.4M to keep for 2021.

It's another case like WR where we have two high salaries unless we make cuts or trades.
 
I suspect we draft heavy defense with what picks we have as the offense, ignoring the Watson situation, was ok but the defense was horrible. So that being said I’m not sure there are currently long term plan for any of these guys as it will depend who we get in the draft. I can very much see us cutting guys like McKinney for any cap saving we can get not just this season but try to roll it over to next season.
 

steelbtexan

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I suspect we draft heavy defense with what picks we have as the offense, ignoring the Watson situation, was ok but the defense was horrible. So that being said I’m not sure there are currently long term plan for any of these guys as it will depend who we get in the draft. I can very much see us cutting guys like McKinney for any cap saving we can get not just this season but try to roll it over to next season.
Hopefully they can find a LB that can cover, 2 CB's and an edge that can put heat on the QB in the draft/FA. This can be done.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I found him in September of 2014 in his first career start throwing for 435 yards and six touchdowns. I think if I remember correctly the Texans found him in 2017 1.12.

I don't think anyone here is saying it's easy to find and develop a quarterback. Many of us are saying though it's time for Deshaun to move on and that is mostly at his own doing from the little information we have. He has not come out and denied that he wants a trade. If he by some chance remains, will he be the 100% invested Watson that he was in 2020? Who will be his wide receivers? Does anyone think will Fuller will be back? I thought no one wants to play here? Of all the positions that we desperately need who do we get in the third round?

We did find DeShaun Watson and we can find somebody else. I think most of us believe there are options that can replace Watson. Perhaps not as good as he is now but good enough with perhaps 6-7 starters this season and perhaps 4 more in 2022 by trade and our own selections plus a couple more good players in free agency for Texans to be a contender in 2023.
It took 15 yrs to find one. Again, Elway hasn't found one yet. What about Miami? How long did it take Buffalo post Kelly?
 

steelbtexan

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It took 15 yrs to find one. Again, Elway hasn't found one yet. What about Miami? How long did it take Buffalo post Kelly?
yep, and this is the catch 22. 27 yrs of evidence says you cant win with a QB making more than 14% of the cap and if you trade him you may not find another QB for years. Of course if you get lucky and prepare correctly you can get a Favre to Rodgers, A Montana to Young, a Rivers to Herbert, A Smith to Mahomes. So yes, it can be done.

This just depends on what light you look at finding a QB in. A GM or HC's career is closely related to which QB you choose to run your franchise. Or atleast it should be, RS not withstanding.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
yep, and this is the catch 22. 27 yrs of evidence says you cant win with a QB making more than 14% of the cap and if you trade him you may not find another QB for years. Of course if you get lucky and prepare correctly you can get a Favre to Rodgers, A Montana to Young, a Rivers to Herbert, A Smith to Mahomes. So yes, it can be done.

This just depends on what light you look at finding a QB in. A GM or HC's career is closely related to which QB you choose to run your franchise. Or atleast it should be, RS not withstanding.
So Mahomes is never winning another title then correct? Rodgers was in the title game. Do you think his team lost because he was taking up 14% of the cap or because his team turned the ball over and his coach got scared. I always have a problem when you nitpick on a useless number to attempt to prove a point. Eli was one of the highest paid QBs in the league when they won. A recent trend has been winning with a qb on a rookie deal, but off that rookie deal then what? Get rid of the qb because the team suck at drafting?
 

steelbtexan

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So Mahomes is never winning another title then correct? Rodgers was in the title game. Do you think his team lost because he was taking up 14% of the cap or because his team turned the ball over and his coach got scared. I always have a problem when you nitpick on a useless number to attempt to prove a point. Eli was one of the highest paid QBs in the league when they won. A recent trend has been winning with a qb on a rookie deal, but off that rookie deal then what? Get rid of the qb because the team suck at drafting?
Mahomes has another yr or 2 before his extension kicks in, that gives him a 6 or 7 yr window.

27 yrs is 27 yrs, you can think what you want and what causes it to be but that number remains and is growing. I do think if anybody can beat the odds it's Mahomes or Rodgers but that would be an outlier. Also something that might change this is with the cap issues good players probably will be available for the vet min. Maybe next yr the trend can be broken because of this. At some point you will be right and I will be wrong, but I dont like the odds.
 
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steelbtexan

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Back on topic please gentlemen. Defense defense defense.
Sorry about that,

How would you go about improving the defense what positions in FA would you like to add? What positions in the draft would you like to have Caserio pick and if you have any guys you've seen play that would be reasonable guys to add who are they?

For instance dont say you would like to add Von Miller in FA because there's no chance he comes here.

Names I like in FA are Jayron Brown/William Jackson and after he gets cut on the cheap Linval Joseph.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
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Sorry about that,

How would you go about improving the defense what positions in FA would you like to add? What positions in the draft would you like to have Caserio pick and if you have any guys you've seen play that would be reasonable guys to add who are they?

For instance dont say you would like to add Von Miller in FA because there's no chance he comes here.

Names I like in FA are Jayron Brown/William Jackson and after he gets cut on the cheap Linval Joseph.

Honestly I don't care what they add to the defense this year .... I want to fix the offense now and worry about the defense some other day. I'll take a the best RB , OG and WR you can get with their first three picks.
I'll sign some dudes from the FA pile to cheap 1 year deals on the defense , maybe they are hungry and play like it.
 
Honestly I don't care what they add to the defense this year .... I want to fix the offense now and worry about the defense some other day. I'll take a the best RB , OG and WR you can get with their first three picks.
I'll sign some dudes from the FA pile to cheap 1 year deals on the defense , maybe they are hungry and play like it.
That’s the thing though, the offense wasn’t great but it was good enough that I think we could have been a wild card and at least denied the fins the 3rd pick. If Fuller and Roby hadn’t popped and you add a decent RB the offense is ok not counting the QB situation.

The conversation on defense though basically goes like this.

“Which player on the defense should we replace?”

“Yes”

Six games were decided by one TD or less. A better D and it might have been that 10+ win season some thought it would be.
 

steelbtexan

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Honestly I don't care what they add to the defense this year .... I want to fix the offense now and worry about the defense some other day. I'll take a the best RB , OG and WR you can get with their first three picks.
I'll sign some dudes from the FA pile to cheap 1 year deals on the defense , maybe they are hungry and play like it.
I could see this and that's why I asked what most posters would do spend the draft picks to finish the offense and take your chances, (Without DW4 that's risky) of try to upgrade the defense.

I hope they just go BPA and if they do a RB/WR will most likely be 2 of the 3 picks.
 
But without Cooks, Fuller, both Johnsons how is that offense going to be?
Cooks I might try to resign. Fuller I let walk unless he signs a more team friendly deal, he has yet to finish a season and in the year that it was time for him to step up he popped a drug test. There are going to be a lot of cuts across the NFL including WR so it will be a buyers market and he is a questionable asset.

Johnsons the offense will look the same without them as it did with them because they were such non-factors. Sign a 6+ foot guy and have him fall forward at the line holding the ball and you’ll get better results.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
No, I was suggesting that after all the cuts the offense won't look the same
They could be much, much better if Caserio handles the situation right. Trade Cooks for cap relief. Re-sign Fuller to a 1- year prove-it deal b/c he's not going to get anything better from another NFL team.....especially since OB is OC in Alabama. Texans could get a WR, RB, OG via the draft and a veteran WR and RB via free agency.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
They could be much, much better if Caserio handles the situation right. Trade Cooks for cap relief. Re-sign Fuller to a 1- year prove-it deal b/c he's not going to get anything better from another NFL team.....especially since OB is OC in Alabama. Texans could get a WR, RB, OG via the draft and a veteran WR and RB via free agency.
I would prefer to keep Cooks and get rid of Cobbs. You also have Coutee, Hansen and like you stated Fuller on a prove it deal. In the deal with the Jets I would hope to acquire J. Crowder.
 

thunderkyss

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Trade Cooks for cap relief. Re-sign Fuller to a 1- year prove-it deal b/c he's not going to get anything better from another NFL team....
:thinking:

How much are you thinking this one year prove it deal is going to be?

If you can get him cheap, why just one year?

Why wouldn't you bring Cooks back for less money? He's already played his hand saying he doesn't want to relocate again.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Sorry about that,

How would you go about improving the defense what positions in FA would you like to add? What positions in the draft would you like to have Caserio pick and if you have any guys you've seen play that would be reasonable guys to add who are they?

For instance dont say you would like to add Von Miller in FA because there's no chance he comes here.

Names I like in FA are Jayron Brown/William Jackson and after he gets cut on the cheap Linval Joseph.
If the team is in rebuild mode, why add a 30 something yr old pass rusher with issues? If they trade Deshaun, might as well tank. Now, I do think a better scheme can help this team improve just as I do better oline coaching. Greenard, as a Rde, CO as a LDE, and Blacklock as the 3 tech. Cunningham is the Wolb, Johnson and Roby as corners and Reid as a Safety. After that, its fill in the blanks.
 

steelbtexan

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If the team is in rebuild mode, why add a 30 something yr old pass rusher with issues? If they trade Deshaun, might as well tank. Now, I do think a better scheme can help this team improve just as I do better oline coaching. Greenard, as a Rde, CO as a LDE, and Blacklock as the 3 tech. Cunningham is the Wolb, Johnson and Roby as corners and Reid as a Safety. After that, its fill in the blanks.
Agreed, that's why I used Miller as an unrealistic FA target. I'm good with playing the young guys, in fact I advocated for playing the last 1/2 of the season. With that said who knows how good Greenard will be. It worried me when he was coming out of college that although Greenard had a bunch of sacks they were mostly high effort plays and that he didn't have any special traits. L.Jo isn't a CB IMHO, they're trying to teach him how to play FS which fits well with his skillset. IMHO and I would give him 1 more yr to learn the position. But I have my doubts about whether he ever will. Because it looks like he's as dumb as a box of rocks. Hopefully this is because he was learning a new position.

I'm terrible at evaluating CB's can you give me your opinion on a few guys that might be there in the 3rd/4th rd. Keith Taylor/Tay Gowan/Robert Rochell/Josh Jobe and my favorite who looks like he's going to be picked in the late 1st/Early 2nd Kelvin Joseph.
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
:thinking:

How much are you thinking this one year prove it deal is going to be?

If you can get him cheap, why just one year?

Why wouldn't you bring Cooks back for less money? He's already played his hand saying he doesn't want to relocate again.
Fuller at veterans minimum with bonuses for 1 season. He just has to prove he can stay healthy, clean, and productive for a full season. I don't think NFL GM's are going to give him any kind of luxury contract until he delivers the goods for a full season. Fuller and agent should be cognizant of this as well, so I see them signing nothing beyond a season so Fuller can be an UFA if he gets this type of season under his belt. Sky's the limit if he nails a solid 2021 season.

Cooks is solid cap relief and wouldn't be the difference maker if the Texans are minus Watson. The job in 2021 is to clear as much cap as possible b/c no matter how the Texans slice the pie.....they're probably AFC South cellar dwellers for 2021 and possible 2022. Texans can get a draft asset for Cooks and would be fools to just cut him to get the same results.

Cobb on the other hand is probably a "cut" only move. He produced nothing in 2020 and comes with a lot of salary baggage. They could try to stick him in the Watson trade but in all reality, this is going to be one of those yank the band-aid off moves that'll sting in 2021 but the burn will go away by the official start of the 2022 NFL off-season.
 

thunderkyss

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I don't think NFL GM's are going to give him any kind of luxury contract until he delivers the goods for a full season.
All his agent has to say is 53 games in five seasons.

How much is my client worth for 10 games a season?

If your answer is vet minimum, then don't bother. Come March 17th we'll be talking to clubs that know what the hell they're doing.
 

steelbtexan

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Can Greenard play DE in the 4-3? That will be interesting to watch. Also is John Reid a bust? Or can the new staff get production from him in his 2nd year. I’m hoping the new coaches can develop these young players and not let last years rookie crop go to waste.
He played some 4-3 DE at Florida and showed a knack for being able to drop off into short zones.

Hopefully John Reid can become the nickel CB. He's got talent but most rookie CB's struggle. Wasn't he injured quite a bit last yr? If he can play and really improve on his rookie yr, that would be a great help to a defense that is dying for playmakers in the secondary. Hopefully the guy that came from Philly can help all of the guys. He certainly has experience working with crappy CB's. A FA that might sign as a FA that learned under him in Philly would be Sidney Jones. I dont know how to feel about that, because Jones has talent and I dont know how he performed with the Jags last yr. But their defense was awful last yr.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Can Greenard play DE in the 4-3? That will be interesting to watch. Also is John Reid a bust? Or can the new staff get production from him in his 2nd year. I’m hoping the new coaches can develop these young players and not let last years rookie crop go to waste.
You hit on exactly what I believe will be the biggest issue with this defense. Lovie Smith is NOT an upgrade for this defense, in my opinion, of course. He was fired from University of Illinois after a 17-39 record. In his 2 years (2014 and 2015) in Tampa his defense ranked 25th and 26th in points allowed. 27th and 29th in takeaways, a category in which the Texans have been abysmal.

Dino Vasso is the new defensive secondary coach. He's been mainly an assistant in the NFL, last serving as assistant defensive coordinator.
 

thunderkyss

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You hit on exactly what I believe will be the biggest issue with this defense. Lovie Smith is NOT an upgrade for this defense, in my opinion, of course. He was fired from University of Illinois after a 17-39 record. In his 2 years (2014 and 2015) in Tampa his defense ranked 25th and 26th in points allowed. 27th and 29th in takeaways, a category in which the Texans have been abysmal.

Dino Vasso is the new defensive secondary coach. He's been mainly an assistant in the NFL, last serving as assistant defensive coordinator.
Has he ever given up 200 yards a game to the same RB on the same team three times in a 12 month period?
 


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