Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
My take on the Carr / Young / Bush Debate
- Thread starter Dime
- Start date
New_Texans
Rookie
Napa Auto Parts said:
When hes sacked he gets back up. Hes sacked again he gets back up...over and over again he gets back up. Then he doesnt go on camera and complain about it. Hes not a whinning baby, hes a young man trying his best to get this old Ford Model T car turned into a Escalade with 20' rims and diamond incrested seats. Now with Capers gone let see what happens, you have to give Carr one more year under Kubiak and then Judge him cause right now there is no real assessment of his skills as a play maker.
Heres a question for you whats worse, sacks or interceptions?
Well, Carr has had only 1 year in which hes thrown more ints than tds i believe which was his rookie year. The sacks are something that is mainly contributed to the coaches and the lack of coaching the line and the running backs for blocking. I only recall 1 time he did that early this season (running out of bounds behind the line) then he never did it again. Oh, and with the line playing better these last games we did manage to score more points (without our RB). So stop blaming Carr for the all of the problems... heck the WR drop td passes... Capers plays not to lose a game... and u guys complain about the Texans winning to get Reggie and now its bye bye Carr...?
Fans are stupid... Im sorry but Fans are stupid... flip flopping all over the place.
The Dream
All Pro
My take on this whole thing is that I think we should draft VY....you ask why?
1. David Carr - I haven't been one to bash David Carr, because I've been following the dude since he played for Fresno State.......granted he hasn't the best Line blocking for him, but dude has not shown that he deserves to be a franchise QB...........bottom line is thatDavid Carr is average, at this point I really don't see him getting any better than he already is, Vince on the other hand is already better than Carr in many departments and has a lot more potential than David.
2. Domanike Davis - unlike David, Dominique is better than average.....we have a good RB, so why get rid of him for Bush?.....granted Bush is a great player, but would you rather have a backfield of Carr and Bush or Vince and Davis?
3. Do not trade down - yes we need an O-line, but we also need a lot of other things also (on both sides of the ball).....when you have an opportunity to pick up a special player, you don't pass on that opportunity........players like Bush, VY, Leinhart, etc. are a dime dozen, there will be plenty of linemen in the future.
4. Injuries - the people who have been saying that Vince won't be able to stay healthy are full of crap....we don't know what his health status will be throughout his career......as far as McNabb goes, this past season is the only one I can remember of him having a major injury (which sidelined him for the year), ......there have been plenty of QB's that could run and scramble who have had good careers, Steve Young, McNabb, Cunningham,etc........injuries happen to every QB, hell Troy Aikman was never a running QB but he got lit up.....none of us have a crystal ball so we can't say he will be on the side line most of his career.....plus add to the fact that unlike Vick, Young is not a wreckless runner.
5. QB's are more valuable than RB's - sorry, but it's true.....Barry Sanders was one of the greatest players ever at any position, but he never went anywhere throughout his career......QB's touch the ball every possesion and can make a difference (rather that be positive or negative) every possesion.....like a poster said earlier, people were angry when McNabb was drafted over Williams, but unlike Williams, McNabb touches the ball every possesion.........give me a special QB over a special RB anyday of the week.
Oh by the way I'm a newcomer, so hello to everybody.
1. David Carr - I haven't been one to bash David Carr, because I've been following the dude since he played for Fresno State.......granted he hasn't the best Line blocking for him, but dude has not shown that he deserves to be a franchise QB...........bottom line is thatDavid Carr is average, at this point I really don't see him getting any better than he already is, Vince on the other hand is already better than Carr in many departments and has a lot more potential than David.
2. Domanike Davis - unlike David, Dominique is better than average.....we have a good RB, so why get rid of him for Bush?.....granted Bush is a great player, but would you rather have a backfield of Carr and Bush or Vince and Davis?
3. Do not trade down - yes we need an O-line, but we also need a lot of other things also (on both sides of the ball).....when you have an opportunity to pick up a special player, you don't pass on that opportunity........players like Bush, VY, Leinhart, etc. are a dime dozen, there will be plenty of linemen in the future.
4. Injuries - the people who have been saying that Vince won't be able to stay healthy are full of crap....we don't know what his health status will be throughout his career......as far as McNabb goes, this past season is the only one I can remember of him having a major injury (which sidelined him for the year), ......there have been plenty of QB's that could run and scramble who have had good careers, Steve Young, McNabb, Cunningham,etc........injuries happen to every QB, hell Troy Aikman was never a running QB but he got lit up.....none of us have a crystal ball so we can't say he will be on the side line most of his career.....plus add to the fact that unlike Vick, Young is not a wreckless runner.
5. QB's are more valuable than RB's - sorry, but it's true.....Barry Sanders was one of the greatest players ever at any position, but he never went anywhere throughout his career......QB's touch the ball every possesion and can make a difference (rather that be positive or negative) every possesion.....like a poster said earlier, people were angry when McNabb was drafted over Williams, but unlike Williams, McNabb touches the ball every possesion.........give me a special QB over a special RB anyday of the week.
Oh by the way I'm a newcomer, so hello to everybody.
New_Texans said:
4 years of zero leadership and all of a sudden the definition of a leader changes. A leader has a killer instinct, puts his team on his back, and has the respect of the team. He credits everyone with a win and takes sole resposibility for a lose.
Carr is not a leader and you don't all of a sudden become one becuase the coaches change...you either are one or are not. The debate is VY vs Bush vs O-lince rebuilding, but the team needs a leader more than anything else...no leader=no ring. If not VY, then draft someone who is a proven LEADER...
PapaL
Loose Screw
Sunday NFL Countdown, Chris Mortenson reports that Houston will take Reggie #1 regardless of what VY decides (also said VY is leaning towards turning pro). Pending formality of Reggie turning pro, also said Carr $8M option will be picked up.
Predicts Leinhert #2 to Saints, VY #3 to TEN.
Predicts Leinhert #2 to Saints, VY #3 to TEN.
New_Texans
Rookie
BREAZE said:
Jacksonville Game last year... he lead them down field and guess what we won and kicked them out the playoffs.
Unfortunately with the crappy defense we've had this year he hasnt had much of a chance to lead the offense down field because the defense gives up 80 million touchdowns in the 4th.
Do you really think Vince Young is gonna be a leader in the NFL as a rookie whos going to sit on the bech?
David Carr was a leader too in college... so saying that VY is a better leader in college is nothing.
New_Texans
Rookie
The Dream said:
How the **** did Ten. end up with #3 anyway i thought it would be San Fran...
tulexan
Hall of Fame
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=241583#post241583
How does Carr's leadership cause us to lose those games?
How does Carr's leadership cause us to lose those games?
New_Texans
Rookie
tulexan said:
It doesnt we lack leadership on the DEFENSIVE SIDE!!!!!!!
DEFENSE PEOPLE!!! cant you SEE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS NOT CARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BradK10
Veteran
how bout lets not focus on what might happen with other teams, get scared of a guy who's never played an NFL snap yet, and focus on what realistically can be done to help our team?
i didnt call you a bandwagon fan, but if you'd get out of the houston bubble you'd find out that we're not considered a great sports town because of our fans
i didnt call you a bandwagon fan, but if you'd get out of the houston bubble you'd find out that we're not considered a great sports town because of our fans
New_Texans
Rookie
Love Vince Draft Bush 06'
The Dream
All Pro
What can help our team is with we dump Mr. Average pretty boy David Carr, and keep the already proven player in Domanick Davis and draft an amazing talent in VY.
I'm not here to argue, but I don't see how people thinking houston fans are bandwagonners is important to this conversation.
New_Texans
Rookie
The Dream said:
Johnson Lt lg c rg rt te WR#2
Carr
Davis Bush
ok, let me explain this set up as u can see, we have both running backs in the back field. Now, Carr drops back and can either hand it off to Domanick for his normal 8 yard gain or do play action to DD. If he does play action Bush will run out in the flat ready to catch the ball (cause hes a pretty nice catching RB) yet if the Lb has bitten on Bush the Te can break open into the open field and there... 10-15 yard play right there. Now of course he can also toss it to Johnson can let him make some plays too.
But Count the names i have out there... Johnson Carr Davis Bush... thats not bad seeing that Vince Young if drafted wont be able to get the ball to Johnson since hell be ON THE BENCH.
New_Texans
Rookie
The Dream said:
Vince Young had greater Talent around him though...he goes to Texas ...Carr was at Fresno St you see the difference dont you?
New_Texans
Rookie
Vinny said:
Young wont be able to walk in a 4th and 5 in the Nfl let along get down the field. USC's defense wasnt that great to begin with. David carried Fresno in college like young did UT.
I go back to Jacksonville last year what did David do in that game?
lead them downfield and win the game kicking a hungry Jacksonville team out of the playoffs.
Vince wont be dancing in the NFL like he can in college and he wont be running as much because of the way that he runs (very upright he'll get hit hard.)
Not to mention all of the fumbles he has had while running in the open field or when he gets pressure on him. I watch UT games this year, he tends to fumble the ball a lot (the whole UT team really.).
Dave needs help?
See Brett Farve and all great QBs they seem to all have nice O-lines and some nice RBs and not to mention a few nice WRs who make plays? Am I not right? Qbs always need help.
New_Texans
Rookie
Vinny said:
Oh i added this btw dont tell me that this isnt true.
Dave needs help?
See Brett Farve and all great QBs they seem to all have nice O-lines and some nice RBs and not to mention a few nice WRs who make plays? Am I not right? Qbs always need help.
Your Qb just doesnt need to make dumb mistakes...And as of those 60 starts he doesnt really ever make stupid decisions does he?
HardKnockTexan
Rookie
Well it looks like the Texans picked a good year to get the #1 pick in the draft. Before the Rose Bowl I wasnt sure of what I wanted to happen in the draft. As has been said over and over again on this board our team has a lot of areas to address but passing on a player with the potential that Bush has could definentally come back to bite our team in the butt. Now after watching Young's amazing performance in the Rose Bowl it even clouds the issue more.
I have never seen anyone perform like Young did in the national championship game. Watching him made me salivate at the thought of having him running our team. After letting a few days pass and many thoughts about the draft run through my head, I came to this conclusion:
A. There has only been 1 mobile QB that has won a superbowl - Steve Young.
B. I still have faith in Carr to run this offense efficiently.
C. I think Pitts could be one of the top Left Tackles in the league with proper coaching.
D. Dominick Davis needs help in the backfield.
E. There are servicable players at every possition each year in the draft.
F. Special players only come along once every 5 to 10 years.
I'm leaning towards drafting Bush. He'd only be getting around 15 carries a game but just having him in the backfield/slot would open up our offense dramatically. Trading down and aquiring multiple picks isnt a bad idea either. Before they moved Pitts to left tackle mid season I was all about trading down and picking the best Left Tackle in the draft. But after watching Pitts improve every game and shut down some of the best Defensive Ends in the game my mind set has changed. If we do trade down, now I'd say we go AJ Hawk with the first pick. If we stay at #1 there's no way we could pass on Bush.
I have never seen anyone perform like Young did in the national championship game. Watching him made me salivate at the thought of having him running our team. After letting a few days pass and many thoughts about the draft run through my head, I came to this conclusion:
A. There has only been 1 mobile QB that has won a superbowl - Steve Young.
B. I still have faith in Carr to run this offense efficiently.
C. I think Pitts could be one of the top Left Tackles in the league with proper coaching.
D. Dominick Davis needs help in the backfield.
E. There are servicable players at every possition each year in the draft.
F. Special players only come along once every 5 to 10 years.
I'm leaning towards drafting Bush. He'd only be getting around 15 carries a game but just having him in the backfield/slot would open up our offense dramatically. Trading down and aquiring multiple picks isnt a bad idea either. Before they moved Pitts to left tackle mid season I was all about trading down and picking the best Left Tackle in the draft. But after watching Pitts improve every game and shut down some of the best Defensive Ends in the game my mind set has changed. If we do trade down, now I'd say we go AJ Hawk with the first pick. If we stay at #1 there's no way we could pass on Bush.
Tulip
Veteran
There have been umpteenth arguments in this household over the past season. One was about benching David Carr when he was having trouble (remember that game when he threw at the receivers' feet multiple times?). My other half worried that benching Carr would destroy Carr's psyche and do irreparable damage to him.
And now the same argument is getting dusted off about the possiblity of Carr playing with Vince Young in the shadows. He thinks David Carr's will never mentally survive the "Play Vince" chants that will come after every interception or bad play.
Which leads me to wonder - if that's true - why on earth would the Texans center their franchise around someone that fragile?
And now the same argument is getting dusted off about the possiblity of Carr playing with Vince Young in the shadows. He thinks David Carr's will never mentally survive the "Play Vince" chants that will come after every interception or bad play.
Which leads me to wonder - if that's true - why on earth would the Texans center their franchise around someone that fragile?
New_Texans
Rookie
Vinny said:
Watch Carr go to Miami or the Raiders and watch him go to the playoffs and make a few Pro Bowls...and Watch the Texans go through another coaching change and YOU guys will be calling for Vince's head. Four more years of losing football cause you want to dismantle a team which isnt that far from being back to 7+ wins.
I dont want Vince here cause you guys are horrible texan "fans". I'd rather him go to the Titans cause he** they know how to treat their team. No wonder the Oilers moved out there. 1st game Vince hass he doesnt complete a pass watch u guys boo the heck out him. He tosses a Int watch u guys want him benched... he fumbles a ball watch you guys want a new QB. "F Vince lets go get Brady Quinn he won the Heisman (if he does) hes much better than Vince is"
New_Texans
Rookie
tulexan said:
Thank you.
New_Texans
Rookie
Vinny said:
Titans fan lmao!
New_Texans
Rookie
The Dream said:
1st mistake he makes you'll be going to want to get a new QB.
Brady Quinn 07' >> watch.
The Dream
All Pro
look none of us knows if Vince or Reggie will be good players on the next level, if anyone stinks of course we as fans would want to make changes, because we want our team to be good....but no I wouldn't call for a players head just because he makes a mistake, that would be insane, you have to give people time (at any position).
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Vinny said:
Well then why don't you want Omar Jacobs? He is the same size as Vince Young, and his talents relate to the NFL more. He has a cannon for an arm, and although may not be as mobile as Vince Young, he is not a statue. He may not get as much press as Vince Young, but that is because he plays for the MAC.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I don't think many teams would take Omar Jacobs over Vince Young. Seems silly to me, and I hate that kind of argument. Why don't I like Cheerios or Rice Krispies also? I've called Young a potential Superstar for well over a year now....this isn't a new thing for me.tulexan said: