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Mel Kiper's first mock draft
- Thread starter AlexVanderpool
- Start date
texasguy346
Mod Squad
Fiddy said:Some people feel that Coleman is overrated and stinks. Others, like me and the ones who gave him the contract extension, feel that he will be a playmaker in the secondary for a few more years.
Come on Fiddy you and I both know that CBs can't be effective after making the switch to S. Just look at Rod Woodson, or Aeneas Williams. Those guys were never any good back there playing safety, they never made any big plays to prove they're still playmakers, and they most definately didn't prolong their careers any.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Lucky said:
I absolutely agree that the OL has to come together for whatever offensive weapons the Texans have to be exploited. Having said that, I bet there are either zero or 1 new starting OLmen when the season starts next year, and neither will be a tackle. With that expectation, I will not be at all surprised if a CB or WR is taken again in the 1st.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
I'm not sure exactly what you envisioned, but I surely didn't expect Coleman to become Brian Dawkins in his first year playing FS. Even if you bring in a rookie you can't honestly expect him to become a shutdown safety in his first season. I feel that Coleman will continue to improve at the position like he did through the season, and keep in mind that he was playing injured for a few games too. I think most have Thomas Davis as the top safety in this year's draft, and the worst aspect of his game is coverage. So I'm not sure how he would be an improvement over Coleman. Even if you're aiming at picking up a Safety later on in day one you won't be able to expect an immediate improvement at the S positions. I just can't imagine the Texans taking a safety on the first day, and as far as day 2 goes it is all a toss up.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
texan279 said:
I thought his contract extension actually reduced his cap hit to somewhere around 3million as opposed to 4 or soemthing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bottle-O-Bud said:
First off, while you are pimping Thomas Davis, understand that he projects to SS in the NFL not FS. His weaknesses are speed and coverage ability.
1) Payne will be back...and I will bet on a 3-4 year contract at 2.5 to 3.0 mil a year.
2) Earl will become the starter and yes should improve as do most players in their second freakin year in the NFL. Faggins isn't a starter now, but will continue to improve.
3) The Texans have a far better idea than anyone around here about the likelihood of Joppru playing.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
texan279 said:
It's a 3 year deal, but I believe it reduced how much of the cap he took up this year. Where's aj when you need him?
texan279
Hall of Fame
No that is not my point. And the Boselli thing was different, his was due to injury. What I am saying is that Coleman is getting paid $3 mil+ a season for the next 3 seasons and he played pretty **** good for this being his first season at FS. IMO why bring in someone else who you don't know how they will pan out, to replace Coleman who has done a solid job and who is getting paid starter money. Also, we still have McCree who is a solid backup FS, who was our starter at one time, I just cannot remember if he is a UFA or RFA.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Fiddy said:
Well so would I but in Kiper's scenario Edwards is already gone.
Coleman's contract was for $9.5 mil, but $5 mil came in signing bonus so it is guaranteed--they didn't give him that expecting to replace him in the 1st two years so wish in one hand and ... in the other .... Yes it reduced the cap hit for 2004 from a fairly high CB salary to a fairly high safety salary but it put more guaranteed money into the contract as well.
And for god's sake folks, please don't extend the shutdown insanity to safeties--it is bad enough seeing every CB down into the 6th round described as a potential shutdown CB.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
I think McCree is an UFA.
I can't believe infantrycak isn't interested in a shutdown DT or a shutdown DE. Those guys are great in coverage.
I can't believe infantrycak isn't interested in a shutdown DT or a shutdown DE. Those guys are great in coverage.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Bottle-O-Bud said:
Since this safety fascination is mystifying to some of us, how about explaining what in the limited playing time Earl had this year were the specific weaknesses in his game that tell you he won't be a solid NFL SS? Examples would even be nice.
If he would still be on the board for us (which seems a real stretch), you
gotta figure we could trade that pick down and get a lot for it, which would
seem to be the most practicle thing for us to do (sorta the reverse Babin
move from last year), given all the needs we have. But yea, having AJ and
M.Williams both as your WRs would be real special.
gotta figure we could trade that pick down and get a lot for it, which would
seem to be the most practicle thing for us to do (sorta the reverse Babin
move from last year), given all the needs we have. But yea, having AJ and
M.Williams both as your WRs would be real special.
STEEL BLUE TEXANS
Hall of Fame
Here is the full mock...
1. San Francisco 49ers: Alex Smith (jr.), QB, Utah
A smart player who will pick up an NFL system quickly, Smith has good size, is mobile enough to hurt teams with his running ability and is also an efficient passer who can make all the necessary throws.
2. Miami Dolphins: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
A strong, tough runner with good speed for his size, Benson would help fill the void left by the retirement of Ricky Williams. But there is speculation the Dolphins will attempt to fill their running back need through trade, perhaps for Buffalo's Travis Henry, so stay tuned.
3. Cleveland Browns: Aaron Rodgers (jr.), QB, California
Rodgers is a smart, accurate passer with a quick release. His arm strength is adequate and he is a better prospect at this point in his career than former Cal QB Kyle Boller, now the starter for the Baltimore Ravens.
4. Chicago Bears: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
Perhaps the most complete back in the draft, Brown can carry or catch the ball with equal skill. He has size, instincts and quickness that allowed him to put up excellent numbers at the college level.
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Carnell Wiliams, RB, Auburn
A creative, deceptive runner with tremendous natural skills. Williams can get tough yards inside despite lacking ideal size, a point illustrated by his 29 rushing TDs over the last two years
6. Tennessee Titans: Adam Jones, CB, West Virginia
A good cover man who will also contribute as a kick returner, Jones has very good closing speed and is a willing tackler in run support. That may be his most important quality with the NFL hurting pass defenses by focusing on downfield infractions by defensive backs.
7. Oakland Raiders: Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma
A fiery, intense player who always goes all-out, Cody is similar to former NFL standout Kevin Greene in his ability to play on his feet as an outside linebacker, or in a three-point stance as a defensive end.
8. Arizona Cardinals: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida State
Johnson improved his stock immensely this year. He ties up offensive linemen and is able to gain penetration against the run as well as collapse the pocket in passing situations.
9. Washington Redskins: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
Edwards has the size, speed and athleticism to take over games, and he did that several times in 2004. He also significantly cut down on dropped passes and concentration lapses this past season, pushing his stock even higher.
10. Detroit Lions: Heath Miller (jr.), TE, Virginia
A tremendous pass receiver and a willing blocker along the line, Miller would give quarterback Joey Harrington another weapon to complement his wide receivers. He'll also be a help to running back Kevin Jones in the rushing attack.
11. Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merriman (jr.), DE/OLB, Maryland
A workout warrior with incredible physical skills, Merriman would be an ideal end/linebacker combo in a 3-4 scheme.
12. San Diego Chargers (from NYG): Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas
Has the speed and strength to chase ballcarriers from sideline to sideline and make things happen when he gets to the ball.
13. Houston Texans: Mike Williams (jr.), WR, USC
Williams did not play in 2004 but dominated the college game for two seasons while at USC. His 6-foot-5, 230-pound frame gives him a big advantage over defensive backs, and he would make a perfect complement to young standout receiver Andre Johnson.
14. Carolina Panthers: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma
Brown's long arms, good feet and balance allow him to engage defenders easily and move them off the ball or away from the quarterback.
15. Kansas City Chiefs: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
The Chiefs likely will dedicate most of their draft to defense, and Rolle is a good start. He has the cover skills to shut down wide receivers and also gives up his body against the run.
16. New Orleans Saints: Thomas Davis (jr.), OLB, Georgia
A punishing tackler who played safety in college, Davis has the size and speed to move into the front seven and make an impact at the pro level.
17. Cincinnati Bengals: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin
A force along the line of scrimmage, James can play the run, rush the passer and command double-team blocks. There are some durability questions, though, after he missed parts of the last two seasons with injury.
18. Minnesota Vikings: Shaun Cody, DL, USC
A versatile lineman who can play end or tackle, Cody would be a great fit for a Vikings team that has struggled at times along the defensive front.
19. St. Louis Rams: David Pollack, DE, Georgia
Pollack plays with tremendous intensity and his motor does not stop. He makes up for a lack of size with good initial quickness and great closing speed.
20. Dallas Cowboys (from BUF): Troy Williamson (jr.), WR, South Carolina
The fastest wideout in the draft, Williamson would be a great help to a team that lacked a consistent vertical threat.
21. Jacksonville Jaguars: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State
Barron is equally adept in the passing and running games and has light feet for a player his size.
22. Baltimore Ravens: Roddy White, WR, UAB
White's 4.42 speed in the 40 gives him a size/speed combination in the elite category. He is a big-play wideout who averaged 20.0 yards per catch in 2004.
23. Seattle Seahawks: Darryl Blackstock (jr.), OLB, Virginia
Blackstock is a solid all-around talent who shows flashes of greatness and has tremendous natural physical skills.
24. Green Bay Packers: Channing Crowder (so.), MLB, Florida
A tremendously productive player who adapted quickly to the collegiate game, Crowder has the ideal physical skills for a man in the middle.
25. Denver Broncos: Matt Roth, DE, Iowa
Roth is similar to David Pollack: undersized with a great motor and intensity. Roth was productive during his senior year and has good physical ability.
26. New York Jets: Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
A consistent, durable corner who can cover and support the run, Rogers has played against some of the best talent in the nation during his career.
27. Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Browner (so.), CB, Oregon State
A consistent cover man with good size, Browner would make a nice complement to Atlanta's top pick last year, CB DeAngelo Hall.
28. San Diego Chargers: Roscoe Parrish (jr.), WR, Miami
Parrish has speed and would be a good option to round out a receiving corps bolstered by the addition of WR Keenan McCardell and the emergence of TE Antonio Gates.
29. Indianapolis Colts: Bryant McFadden, CB, Florida State
Did not intercept many passes, but that's because teams respected his ability and avoided his side of the field. McFadden has the size to match up with big receivers.
30. New England Patriots: Justin Miller (jr.), CB, Clemson
A good fit for a team thin in the secondary this season.
31. Philadelphia Eagles: Justin Tuck (jr.), DE, Notre Dame
Good size and strength. Would be an asset for a team that thrives on pressuring the quarterback.
32. Pittsburgh Steelers: Alex Smith, TE, Stanford
An athletic pass receiver with great body control, Smith can stretch the deep middle and is a good hook-zone threat.
1. San Francisco 49ers: Alex Smith (jr.), QB, Utah
A smart player who will pick up an NFL system quickly, Smith has good size, is mobile enough to hurt teams with his running ability and is also an efficient passer who can make all the necessary throws.
2. Miami Dolphins: Cedric Benson, RB, Texas
A strong, tough runner with good speed for his size, Benson would help fill the void left by the retirement of Ricky Williams. But there is speculation the Dolphins will attempt to fill their running back need through trade, perhaps for Buffalo's Travis Henry, so stay tuned.
3. Cleveland Browns: Aaron Rodgers (jr.), QB, California
Rodgers is a smart, accurate passer with a quick release. His arm strength is adequate and he is a better prospect at this point in his career than former Cal QB Kyle Boller, now the starter for the Baltimore Ravens.
4. Chicago Bears: Ronnie Brown, RB, Auburn
Perhaps the most complete back in the draft, Brown can carry or catch the ball with equal skill. He has size, instincts and quickness that allowed him to put up excellent numbers at the college level.
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: Carnell Wiliams, RB, Auburn
A creative, deceptive runner with tremendous natural skills. Williams can get tough yards inside despite lacking ideal size, a point illustrated by his 29 rushing TDs over the last two years
6. Tennessee Titans: Adam Jones, CB, West Virginia
A good cover man who will also contribute as a kick returner, Jones has very good closing speed and is a willing tackler in run support. That may be his most important quality with the NFL hurting pass defenses by focusing on downfield infractions by defensive backs.
7. Oakland Raiders: Dan Cody, DE, Oklahoma
A fiery, intense player who always goes all-out, Cody is similar to former NFL standout Kevin Greene in his ability to play on his feet as an outside linebacker, or in a three-point stance as a defensive end.
8. Arizona Cardinals: Travis Johnson, DT, Florida State
Johnson improved his stock immensely this year. He ties up offensive linemen and is able to gain penetration against the run as well as collapse the pocket in passing situations.
9. Washington Redskins: Braylon Edwards, WR, Michigan
Edwards has the size, speed and athleticism to take over games, and he did that several times in 2004. He also significantly cut down on dropped passes and concentration lapses this past season, pushing his stock even higher.
10. Detroit Lions: Heath Miller (jr.), TE, Virginia
A tremendous pass receiver and a willing blocker along the line, Miller would give quarterback Joey Harrington another weapon to complement his wide receivers. He'll also be a help to running back Kevin Jones in the rushing attack.
11. Dallas Cowboys: Shawne Merriman (jr.), DE/OLB, Maryland
A workout warrior with incredible physical skills, Merriman would be an ideal end/linebacker combo in a 3-4 scheme.
12. San Diego Chargers (from NYG): Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas
Has the speed and strength to chase ballcarriers from sideline to sideline and make things happen when he gets to the ball.
13. Houston Texans: Mike Williams (jr.), WR, USC
Williams did not play in 2004 but dominated the college game for two seasons while at USC. His 6-foot-5, 230-pound frame gives him a big advantage over defensive backs, and he would make a perfect complement to young standout receiver Andre Johnson.
14. Carolina Panthers: Jammal Brown, OT, Oklahoma
Brown's long arms, good feet and balance allow him to engage defenders easily and move them off the ball or away from the quarterback.
15. Kansas City Chiefs: Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami
The Chiefs likely will dedicate most of their draft to defense, and Rolle is a good start. He has the cover skills to shut down wide receivers and also gives up his body against the run.
16. New Orleans Saints: Thomas Davis (jr.), OLB, Georgia
A punishing tackler who played safety in college, Davis has the size and speed to move into the front seven and make an impact at the pro level.
17. Cincinnati Bengals: Erasmus James, DE, Wisconsin
A force along the line of scrimmage, James can play the run, rush the passer and command double-team blocks. There are some durability questions, though, after he missed parts of the last two seasons with injury.
18. Minnesota Vikings: Shaun Cody, DL, USC
A versatile lineman who can play end or tackle, Cody would be a great fit for a Vikings team that has struggled at times along the defensive front.
19. St. Louis Rams: David Pollack, DE, Georgia
Pollack plays with tremendous intensity and his motor does not stop. He makes up for a lack of size with good initial quickness and great closing speed.
20. Dallas Cowboys (from BUF): Troy Williamson (jr.), WR, South Carolina
The fastest wideout in the draft, Williamson would be a great help to a team that lacked a consistent vertical threat.
21. Jacksonville Jaguars: Alex Barron, OT, Florida State
Barron is equally adept in the passing and running games and has light feet for a player his size.
22. Baltimore Ravens: Roddy White, WR, UAB
White's 4.42 speed in the 40 gives him a size/speed combination in the elite category. He is a big-play wideout who averaged 20.0 yards per catch in 2004.
23. Seattle Seahawks: Darryl Blackstock (jr.), OLB, Virginia
Blackstock is a solid all-around talent who shows flashes of greatness and has tremendous natural physical skills.
24. Green Bay Packers: Channing Crowder (so.), MLB, Florida
A tremendously productive player who adapted quickly to the collegiate game, Crowder has the ideal physical skills for a man in the middle.
25. Denver Broncos: Matt Roth, DE, Iowa
Roth is similar to David Pollack: undersized with a great motor and intensity. Roth was productive during his senior year and has good physical ability.
26. New York Jets: Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn
A consistent, durable corner who can cover and support the run, Rogers has played against some of the best talent in the nation during his career.
27. Atlanta Falcons: Brandon Browner (so.), CB, Oregon State
A consistent cover man with good size, Browner would make a nice complement to Atlanta's top pick last year, CB DeAngelo Hall.
28. San Diego Chargers: Roscoe Parrish (jr.), WR, Miami
Parrish has speed and would be a good option to round out a receiving corps bolstered by the addition of WR Keenan McCardell and the emergence of TE Antonio Gates.
29. Indianapolis Colts: Bryant McFadden, CB, Florida State
Did not intercept many passes, but that's because teams respected his ability and avoided his side of the field. McFadden has the size to match up with big receivers.
30. New England Patriots: Justin Miller (jr.), CB, Clemson
A good fit for a team thin in the secondary this season.
31. Philadelphia Eagles: Justin Tuck (jr.), DE, Notre Dame
Good size and strength. Would be an asset for a team that thrives on pressuring the quarterback.
32. Pittsburgh Steelers: Alex Smith, TE, Stanford
An athletic pass receiver with great body control, Smith can stretch the deep middle and is a good hook-zone threat.
YoungTexanFan
All Pro
AlexVanderpool said:
the bears wont take a rb before a wr. edwards or mike willams to chicago
if derrik johnson fell to past dallas i know caserly would try to get him
if rolle is available at 13 it is a much easier and a much smarter choice than williams.
williams will be a great player in this league, but not on our team.
detroit will probally take thomas davis.
alex barron wont fall to 21, if he is there and rolle isnt i would like to see us take him.
RECAP: rolle or barron before williams
if johnson is there at 12, we should trade up one s
Kiper throws us a bone and we salivate all over it... at least *I* did at the thought of getting Mike Williams at WR.
In MY mind for that spot, I was looking at best available player and NOT at needs. I agree with a lot of you that WR isn't our most glaring need, although a WR of his caliber certainly doesn't hurt matters.
Our most glaring need is either the O-line or D-line for sure. Our most pressing problems can be solved by addressing these.
Still though, isn't that gleaming, brand new car at the dealership more sexy than what you've already got in the garage? That dang Kiper got me dreaming.
In MY mind for that spot, I was looking at best available player and NOT at needs. I agree with a lot of you that WR isn't our most glaring need, although a WR of his caliber certainly doesn't hurt matters.
Our most glaring need is either the O-line or D-line for sure. Our most pressing problems can be solved by addressing these.
Still though, isn't that gleaming, brand new car at the dealership more sexy than what you've already got in the garage? That dang Kiper got me dreaming.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Gaffney should be our 3rd WR, not our 2nd. He may be able to catch the balls throw to him but doesn't get the separation or speed to outclass defenders. He is not another go to guy. If you are satisfied with Gaffney as your #2 when Johnson is doubled and we check down to Davis, feel free to enjoy another sub .500 season. This team needs playmakers.
This is a great pick! WR should be our #1 concern. Our defense has been solid. The main problem is not putting the ball in the end zone. I know defense wins championships, but we need to give the defense some rest. Jabar Gaffney is a very good receiver but he is a slot receiver (Just like Brandon Stokley of the Colts). We need to be able to spread the ball out and keep Andre Johnson from getting doubled.
Fiddy
All Pro
They had that great stretch at the end but thats when they played the Bears, Jags, and Browns. None of those are going to be confused as offensive juggernaughts. Lee Suggs ran all over them, the Jags would of had a bunch of rushing yards if it werent for a couple of holding calls and us going up so quickly, and Thomas Jones started out great by the offense put us up so the Bears abonded the run game in the 2nd half. Our run defense stinks and we need some fresh, young bodies down there. Marcus Spears or Shaun Cody would be nice and DL is more of a need then WR.Skrobes66 said:
If Gaff was targeted as much as Ashley Lelie (around 100 times), Gaff would have over 900 yards receiving (Lucky did that stat somewhere). The problem is Carr always checks down to Davis, sometimes too quickly, and takes away oppurtunities from Gaff. Davis was targeted (85 times) more then Gaff (65ish times) so a 2nd WR is not a problem, Gaff is that guy.
THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
Noob
Yet the Colts had 3 recievers with over 1000 yards. Unfair comparison I know, but still. If we brought Mike Williams in here, the DC would go crazy. I mean who do you cover more? AJ or MW? And with those two guys on the feild only opens the passing game up more to other players like Gaffney and Davis out of the backfeild. Heck even Miller could catch him a couple.
I liked some of Kipers draft, most of it I thought was crazy. If Alex Barron is avalible at us at #13, then its a now brainer how could we pass up a guy like that. I wouldn't be surpised if Chicago picks him up at #4, I mean who plays tackle for them anymore? And he won't get passed Tennesse thats for sure, they could cut both of their T's.
And what about Shwan Merriman going to the Cowboys to play OLB? I thought his guy was a DE who could play OLB in the 3-4. And no Washington won't grab a WR at #9, even if Gardner is gone they still have Taylor Jacobs and some other guys. They don't pass enough anyway to need both Edwards and Coles, not in that offense. Erammus James will be in Washington. And Shaun Cody before David Pollack??? Wow talk about draft day surprises.
I liked some of Kipers draft, most of it I thought was crazy. If Alex Barron is avalible at us at #13, then its a now brainer how could we pass up a guy like that. I wouldn't be surpised if Chicago picks him up at #4, I mean who plays tackle for them anymore? And he won't get passed Tennesse thats for sure, they could cut both of their T's.
And what about Shwan Merriman going to the Cowboys to play OLB? I thought his guy was a DE who could play OLB in the 3-4. And no Washington won't grab a WR at #9, even if Gardner is gone they still have Taylor Jacobs and some other guys. They don't pass enough anyway to need both Edwards and Coles, not in that offense. Erammus James will be in Washington. And Shaun Cody before David Pollack??? Wow talk about draft day surprises.
I know some of you are going to play forgetful, but i remember having knock down debates over Andre Johnson on 2002 for the same reason as this Mike williams projection, the OLine needs help more than WR. Too many of you guys mistake the draft as resolution, in order, of a team highest priority need. the draft especially at the top of the first round is about the acquisition of talent. IMO, there is not a DLman nor OLman available at 13 who are better talents at their position than williams is at WR. rolle at CB is probably the next best talent, and then following that there are a couple of De/OLB tweeners. When given a choice of clear talent over need i go talent. Over time you will be better off. Neither Andre johnson nor Dunta Robinson resolved the highest need for the Texans in 2002 or 2003 , but they are pro bowl and near pro bowl performers. I expect the Texans to take the best talent as they did in 2002 and 2003 and hope that the results are some what similiar.
Fiddy
All Pro
I felt D-Rob and AJ both were needs. In 2002, I thought WR was a more glaring need then OL because I knew that we had all those injuries the first year and were starting a bunch of rookies. That season, we cut our sacks in almost half if I remember correctly. In 2003, we needed defense and with an aging Aaron Glenn, drafting a CB would do us great and would also get rid of Matt Stevens at FS. Now, I have never agreed with a lot of you but I feel as much as the Texans say BPA, they will go with their need.
And I dont see Mike Williams fitting into this offense. Capers wants a pound the rock type offense with deep threats down the field to work off the play action. Gaff is probably a better deep threat then Williams. So if you are going to upgrade any position in the offense, it would probably be adding an explosive back to tag with Davis so the play action will work more. And I remember plenty of times when D-lineman would not bite on the play-action fake this year and put their head down and go after Carr...
And I dont see Mike Williams fitting into this offense. Capers wants a pound the rock type offense with deep threats down the field to work off the play action. Gaff is probably a better deep threat then Williams. So if you are going to upgrade any position in the offense, it would probably be adding an explosive back to tag with Davis so the play action will work more. And I remember plenty of times when D-lineman would not bite on the play-action fake this year and put their head down and go after Carr...
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
ArlingtonTexan said:
You know we are water processing into the wind on this don't you? Gotta keep up the good fight though.
playoffsin2005
Practice Squad
The Colt's were the best at play action this season. Wher are they at? Home. What we need is to develop a short passing style and take shots downfield on One on one situations. Need proof ? Of the 4 teams left in the playoffs, 3 of them use a short passing game Atlanta, Philly, and NE. Williams would work . He big , physical pressance makes him an easy target off the ball.
playoffsin2005
Practice Squad
The learning curve is too great for rookies on either side of the line. Rookies make a bigger impact at the skill positions. Take Baas or vince Carter In the 2nd or 3rd.
playoffsin2005
Practice Squad
Carr got off 466 passes and completed 61.2% of them. Not bad for someone with pressure. DD was the 2nd leading receiver, meaning Carr was checking down often. He had time once in awhile, but it seems like we look down field often. Short passing = ball control = less time for opposing offenses. See NE vs. Indy
infantrycak said:
At least I know I am not alone
Do teams like New England or Philly really have that many more playmakers than the Texans? Should the Texans continue to dip into the free agent pool for line help, only to pay premium $'s for mediocre talent? McKinney & Wiegert will be paid like top 10 players at their position next year. When will the Texans bring in some legit young talent to push these guys? 2006 when their combined cap hit approaches $9 million?SESupergenius said:
And the Texans have used one 1st day pick on a defensive lineman ('02 3rd rounder Charles Hill). He didn't make the team. The Patriots will go into this draft with 6 d-linemen still playing on their rookie contracts. I'm not criticizing the Texans past draft choices. I'm saying it's time to catch up. Maybe, just maybe, 30 year old guys like Walker & Payne will play at a higher level if their snaps can be reduced.
Maybe that's just me looking at the stat sheet where the Texans are at or near the bottom in QB sacks on both sides of the ball. I don't know, but it seems to me that if the QB can stand up a little longer & the opposition's QB can feel a little more heat, maybe the playmakers already on the team (like AJ, DD, Gaffney, Armstrong, Dunta, Glenn, & Coleman) can make a few more plays.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
oh you seem to be stalking me. Yes absolutely the Patriots and Eagles have more playmakers than we do. If you want to talk about overpaying then you can say that about MOST of the positions on our team. Wong has a huge salary so does Glenn, Walker , David Carr, etc.
If you want sacks then ask Fangio to bring more heat as we already switch out players contantly to give them breaks. You tell what impact NT there is with our 1st pick? You could very well be wasting a pick on mediocre talent if you are drafting for need in the 1st round. Give me Mike Williams over most of those NT anyday.
If you want sacks then ask Fangio to bring more heat as we already switch out players contantly to give them breaks. You tell what impact NT there is with our 1st pick? You could very well be wasting a pick on mediocre talent if you are drafting for need in the 1st round. Give me Mike Williams over most of those NT anyday.
Sorry it seems that way. You were just posting on topics I wanted to discuss.SESupergenius said:
You want Mike Williams, but how much are you going to use him? If you give him Bradford's throws, that's 54 balls Williams will see. Are you going to cut into Gaffney & Armstrong's targets (68 & 39, respectively)? OK, now you added Williams, but devalued Gaffney & Armstrong. The Texans could feature the pass more, but they would be featuring the QB sack as well if the line isn't addressed.
Do you see Texans changing their offense because of a Mike Williams addition? I don't think Williams would even see a 100 balls his way. And if Mike is automatically among the elites in catches/ target (60-70%), he gets maybe 60 catches for 800-900 yards? Looks like a fantasy football type pick to me. Similar to the Cards taking Fitzgerald when they already had Boldin. Now they can't get the ball to either.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
from what I remember last year Mike Williams was considered somewhat of a tweener, he had the size/frame of a TE but didn't excell at blocking, had WR hands but lacked the speed. where he goes in the draft will largely be influenced by his combine workouts, he needs to bench at least 25-30 reps, run close to a 4.5 40, show great fitness & work ethic. if he does these things chances are he'll be a top 10 pick, I'm leaning towards the Raiders @ #7.
would like to also add that if the Texans release Corey Bradford the Texans will need to address the WR position with a speed kinda guy, a latter round pick who slips through the cracks, depending how the 1st day draft goes I could see the Texans aquiring a speedster (sub 4.4) the 2nd day. there are a few lesser known names out there, one of them being Courtney Roby out of Indiana, not only is he fast (4.38) but has excellent character & pedigree (former NFL All-Pro punter Reggie Roby is Courtneys cousin).
would like to also add that if the Texans release Corey Bradford the Texans will need to address the WR position with a speed kinda guy, a latter round pick who slips through the cracks, depending how the 1st day draft goes I could see the Texans aquiring a speedster (sub 4.4) the 2nd day. there are a few lesser known names out there, one of them being Courtney Roby out of Indiana, not only is he fast (4.38) but has excellent character & pedigree (former NFL All-Pro punter Reggie Roby is Courtneys cousin).
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Lucky said:
Not being a Mike Williams advocate here (something about him makes me a little antsy at the next level and he certainly doesn't give the Texans a speed threat opposite AJ) but the throws would hopefully come from Bradford who he would be replacing and some of DD's tosses--DD got about 90 targets this year. Wouldn't mind seeing 50 of those go to other WR's. Of course DC has to have time to get the ball to them.
Look I wouldn't mind that, either. If the QB has time to get the ball down the field. But, Domanick's catches come mainly on sit routes 5 yards or less. Would you prefer Mike Williams run that route? Someone has to. The best way to reduce the number of balls going to Davis is to improve the pass blocking and give Carr more time to look downfield. It doesn't matter how nice a cart you have, it won't go anywhere if it's in front of the horse.infantrycak said:
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Lucky said:
Hey, I agree getting the OL working next year is the number one priority for the off-season. I asked you in another thread how you saw it happening, but bottom line IMO I don't see more than one starter being replaced by the beginning of next year and maybe none. My best case scenario would be draft someone like Baas in the 2nd or 3rd to replace McKinney and otherwise keep the players and scheme the same. I just don't see wholesale changes either realistically (as in I don't think the Texans will do it) nor ideally (as in I agree they shouldn't replace a bunch of players--heck reading around here they are all incompetent and the Texans need 5 new OLmen). With that in mind, and because I like BPA, I have no problem if the 1st round pick is a WR or CB for that matter. What do you really think needs to be done to the OL?
I don't really want to hijack Mel's thread, but I definitely want to see an infusion of talent into the lines on both sides of the ball. If these guys are ready to play now, that's great. The Pats & Panthers started rookies on the O-line in the last Super Bowl. The Chargers went 12-4 this season starting 2 rookies on the line. If not, it seems reasonable that the Texans could find guys on the 1st day of the draft that would be better backups than Brown, Weary, or Spears.infantrycak said:
I'd like to see McKinney & Wiegert replaced at a minimum. Not only did they play poorly, but their lack of ownership for the results on the field make me cringe. I think it would send a great message to the younger players that a big salary guarantees you nothing in this organization. I'd also like to see Wand face some legit competition at LT. I haven't given up on Wand as a NFL lineman, but I'm much more confident that Gaffney can be a productive #2 WR than I am of Wand becoming a good LT. We haven't seen what's going to happen with free agency, or franchise tags, or salary cap dumps. But teams are finding ways to keep their best players now & I don't think the Texans could count on help there...even if they wanted to.
And then we go back, yet again, to the whole notion of BPA. Go back through any draft and you can find good players available at almost any position. The key is to find them and that onus is on the Texans scouting department. The Texans have had the luxury the past 3 drafts of taking almost any position because they had so many holes on their roster. The holes are fewer, but some still remain. There's no doubt in my mind that there will be an offensive or defensive lineman available to the Texans when they select that would have more of an impact and bring more value to this team than Mike Williams would.
Reddevil63
Veteran
The O-line needs an offseason of practice without any personel changes. They just need time to gel. If things dont get better this year than its obvious the personel is the problem.
What were they doing last offseason, playing video games? Each of the linemen who actually played in '03 regressed in '04. Why would vets like McKinney & Wiegert be likely to improve? Crossing one's fingers & hoping a situation gets better is not a proactive solution.Reddevil63 said:
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Well last year they were busy learning a new scheme, so that in part has something to do with the miscues by the line.
As for Williams, I am a firm believer that you should take the best player available in the 1st round if you have an area of improvement still for that position. WR falls into that category in my book. OL can bea addressed in the 2nd round, although our ability to draft good players in the 2nd round is making me wonder if that is a good idea. (that is a jab) If an offensive lineman is better than Mike Williams when we draft #13 then so be it, but passing up on Williams just to fill a need devalues that slot. If an offensive lineman is rated lower then to get value for that pick we would need to make a deal to trade down.
As for Williams, I am a firm believer that you should take the best player available in the 1st round if you have an area of improvement still for that position. WR falls into that category in my book. OL can bea addressed in the 2nd round, although our ability to draft good players in the 2nd round is making me wonder if that is a good idea. (that is a jab) If an offensive lineman is better than Mike Williams when we draft #13 then so be it, but passing up on Williams just to fill a need devalues that slot. If an offensive lineman is rated lower then to get value for that pick we would need to make a deal to trade down.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
The reason is the offensive line. If you look at the Eagles, Steelers, and Patriots, all of those QBs had time to wait for a receiver to get open or when the QB rolled out to buy more time the offensive line provided more protection for him to get rid of the ball and receivers got open. Carr hasn't had that luxury since he has been in the league. Bottom line is that our line is the bottom.Reddevil63 said: