Hervoyel
BUENO!
Roger tested positive due to "Overfed Athlete Syndrome"
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McNair to NFL: Overturn Cushing suspension
- Thread starter Pollardized
- Start date
Roger tested positive due to "Overfed Athlete Syndrome"
badboy
Hall of Fame
So..if Cush is over training and the other NFL players did not get this whatever it is are they under training or training just right? Cush lost his appeal and now McNair gets another appeal? Hmm. And I read that Cush said he was not changing anything he had been doing, well he just might have another positive test to discuss and maybe Bob is trying to head that off.
The thing is, I think Cushing is saying "Yes, I did have elevated levels, but they are naturally occurring." The process this is describing is one in which you would contest the test result itself, i.e. making a defense that "My levels were not really elevated, it's just that the test was incorrect." By taking the first defense, it hurts the ability to take the second one.
Señor Stan
El Guapo
I don't care who you are...that's funny right there
GP
Go Texans!
If he tests positive again, it's going to be a nightmare. Period.
I don't care if he then presents a court case to head off the 1-year suspension. It's going to be a nightmare.
We don't know what he's doing or not doing. We don't know if it truly is a medical anomaly or he's trying to work the angles via juicing and finding ways to get around it. We just don't know.
All I know is that we might be drafting a LB in round 1 of the next draft if this guy can't stay out of the principal's office.
I'm to the point where I can't read any more analysis on this. To me, it's just cut and dry: Either he's going to be here, or he's not, and we better find a way to move on if he's not.
So much drama. This is like a soap opera. Remember when Stefano, on Days of Our Lives would die, then be back in a year or two, then he dies, and he somehow comes back again? That's this, but within the sports world. Please, Brian, find a way to give us closure on this. If you're for real, then I sincerely hope you find answers that helps you endure. If you're not for real, then so be it (which means you'll be the biggest bust ever, and will be a bigger goat than Dunta or Carr).
I don't care if he then presents a court case to head off the 1-year suspension. It's going to be a nightmare.
We don't know what he's doing or not doing. We don't know if it truly is a medical anomaly or he's trying to work the angles via juicing and finding ways to get around it. We just don't know.
All I know is that we might be drafting a LB in round 1 of the next draft if this guy can't stay out of the principal's office.
I'm to the point where I can't read any more analysis on this. To me, it's just cut and dry: Either he's going to be here, or he's not, and we better find a way to move on if he's not.
So much drama. This is like a soap opera. Remember when Stefano, on Days of Our Lives would die, then be back in a year or two, then he dies, and he somehow comes back again? That's this, but within the sports world. Please, Brian, find a way to give us closure on this. If you're for real, then I sincerely hope you find answers that helps you endure. If you're not for real, then so be it (which means you'll be the biggest bust ever, and will be a bigger goat than Dunta or Carr).
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
GP
Go Texans!
And you know this how?
Because your girlfriend told me.
Look, I have a problem with elevated levels of hCG due to over-training. Happens to the best of us, cjeremy.
You guys will NEVER get my man card. NEVER.
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
Because your girlfriend told me.
Look, I have a problem with elevated levels of hCG due to over-training. Happens to the best of us, cjeremy.
You guys will NEVER get my man card. NEVER.
You'll give up the card or have to deal with the "frickin' sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their frickin' heads".
Señor Stan
El Guapo
Because your girlfriend told me.
Look, I have a problem with elevated levels of hCG due to over-training. Happens to the best of us, cjeremy.
You guys will NEVER get my man card. NEVER.
Oh yeah?!?!?!? We'll send Edward and the Cullen family of vampires, because they are super fast and sparkle and they can hunt you down and take your man car.....err....wait a minute.....move along....nothing to see here.
SouthSideTexan
Glutton for Punishment
I agree. Cut out at least 2 games or change the schedule. Wishful thinking......or maybe a hurricane again around the 3rd week of Sept.
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
Señor Stan;1489255 said:
Señor Stan
El Guapo
www.mancardabuse.com said:
I think its great to see this. I doubt the overturn it cause it sets a dangerous precident. At the same time, if he ever makes a soap opera reference in the future.. his elevated hgc levels will be noted and he might have a defense in the future.
No doubt he's a solid contributor and the board needs him around. At the same time, I hope he spends 4 weeks without his card... The alternative likely means he'll have chesticles...
Mike
Wolf
100% Texan
If I read some posts right some are speculating that McNair is laying the groundwork for the if Cush tests positive, then the Texans have some sort of excuse.
I don't buy that. McNair seems like a straight shooter and one if you treat him right , he will treat you right. He cares about his players but I don't see him going to bat for them and defend their actions if they screwed up. He will try to help support them and help them with any issues.
I also imagine McNair and Cushing (and doctors) had long and serious talks before McNair decided to stick his neck out .. I might be naive. I would find it hard to believe (or hope not) that Cushing would flat out lie to McNair about PED's and if it turns out he did and I imagine we won't be worrying about Cushing getting another contract with the Texans or be in the league.. so problem solved (BTW how many times over the last 2 or 3 years has Cushing been tested? and passed? either he is really good or hey, he might not be lying)
I think when people think of Cushing, they have the image of that guy from "The Program"(can't think of the guys name in that movie)
I don't buy that. McNair seems like a straight shooter and one if you treat him right , he will treat you right. He cares about his players but I don't see him going to bat for them and defend their actions if they screwed up. He will try to help support them and help them with any issues.
I also imagine McNair and Cushing (and doctors) had long and serious talks before McNair decided to stick his neck out .. I might be naive. I would find it hard to believe (or hope not) that Cushing would flat out lie to McNair about PED's and if it turns out he did and I imagine we won't be worrying about Cushing getting another contract with the Texans or be in the league.. so problem solved (BTW how many times over the last 2 or 3 years has Cushing been tested? and passed? either he is really good or hey, he might not be lying)
I think when people think of Cushing, they have the image of that guy from "The Program"(can't think of the guys name in that movie)
Wolf
100% Texan
If I read some posts right some are speculating that McNair is laying the groundwork for the if Cush tests positive, then the Texans have some sort of excuse.
I don't buy that. McNair seems like a straight shooter and one if you treat him right , he will treat you right. He cares about his players but I don't see him going to bat for them and defend their actions if they screwed up. He will try to help support them and help them with any issues.
I also imagine McNair and Cushing (and doctors) had long and serious talks before McNair decided to stick his neck out .. I might be naive. I would find it hard to believe (or hope not) that Cushing would flat out lie to McNair about PED's and if it turns out he did and I imagine we won't be worrying about Cushing getting another contract with the Texans or be in the league.. so problem solved (BTW how many times over the last 2 or 3 years has Cushing been tested? and passed? either he is really good or hey, he might not be lying)
I think when people think of Cushing, they have the image of that guy from "The Program"(can't think of the guys name in that movie)
I do think that maybe this meeting more about 1) possible reduction of cushing's suspension (which I doubt will happen, due to this is pretty standard) and 2) possibly different types of testing for PED's
But I have been known to be wrong many many times
I don't buy that. McNair seems like a straight shooter and one if you treat him right , he will treat you right. He cares about his players but I don't see him going to bat for them and defend their actions if they screwed up. He will try to help support them and help them with any issues.
I also imagine McNair and Cushing (and doctors) had long and serious talks before McNair decided to stick his neck out .. I might be naive. I would find it hard to believe (or hope not) that Cushing would flat out lie to McNair about PED's and if it turns out he did and I imagine we won't be worrying about Cushing getting another contract with the Texans or be in the league.. so problem solved (BTW how many times over the last 2 or 3 years has Cushing been tested? and passed? either he is really good or hey, he might not be lying)
I think when people think of Cushing, they have the image of that guy from "The Program"(can't think of the guys name in that movie)
I do think that maybe this meeting more about 1) possible reduction of cushing's suspension (which I doubt will happen, due to this is pretty standard) and 2) possibly different types of testing for PED's
But I have been known to be wrong many many times
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
I wish I had more info to give, but I did just hear Goodell talk about this a little bit on the radio during my drive home. He was on 610, apparently they are going to have an open forum discussion between Goodell and Texan's season ticket holders later this evening. Anyways, the radio guy asked him about the meeting with McNair and Roger was REALLY vague. He said that they always welcome these types of meetings. He also stated that McNair brought several representatives with him at his own request (that being McNair's). He also said that they want to make sure that they are making the right decision in every circumstance and that not everyone is the same (paraphrasing here). I took that to mean that not everyone's body chemistry is the same. He made no indication that he was going to reopen this appeal or overturn it. Again, he was vague. Hopefully more will be released.
Jesus Christ guys, get off GP's back. Or better yet, join the party! If ya'll followed Days of Our Lives like GP and I do, you'd know Stefano was always wrecking people's business, particularly the Bradys, just like Pollard.
http://mancardtalk.com/rumormill said:
Dude... after reading that, I'm glad I'm not in H-town right now. Maybe there's a lot of HCG in the water?
Mike
(by the way, I hope noone is offended by these... I just thought it would put this all in perspective. And if you are offended, PM and I'll make sure to send you a self addressed/stamped envelope so we can start your suspension)
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
and as far as the begining of the cushing deal (when they reported steroids instead of PED's) ..
I'm still reading that hCG is used as a masking agent that hides the use of steroids...
Kimmy
RealGirls LvFB!
Cush should have just kept his mouth SHUT! First it was his surgery in college, then he thought it was a tumor, now it's overtrained athlete syndrome??? OMG -- he looks like a big, fat, liar ....
And, if as someone suggested this is to ward off future positive test, then IDK what to type ....
And, if as someone suggested this is to ward off future positive test, then IDK what to type ....
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Why? Why does he look like a liar?
He gets a letter from the NFL saying "Hey, you've tested positive for hCG, you're going to be suspended... You may have a tumor, get yourself checked out." (That's basically what the letter from the NFL says, from what I've heard.) So... IF Cush knows that he didn't take anything, then Cush thinks he has a tumor. He's worried about it. He goes to a bunch of doctors. And he comes back clean.
He gets tested several times after the positive test and he comes back negative for hCG.
So he goes to a whole bunch of other doctors and they tell him it could be because of the way he trains. And he gets medical/scientific verification of that.
There's nothing in the course of events that makes it look like he's lying about any of that.
I'm not saying that he's not lying (although I see no reason in the world why he would take hCG.) And if it is possible to get hCG spikes because of workout regimen, then the whole thing does make sense.
Personally, I always thought this was really a side effect to something else he was taking. Something that most people don't know about. But if that's the case, then he should have just stopped taking it and kept his mouth shut and let the whole thing die down
For me, the fact that he's NOT keeping his mouth shut makes him seem more credible. I know that if I had tested positive to something that I hadn't taken, I wouldn't be keeping my mouth shut about it. (And I know a couple of people who've had extremely high testosterone levels without taking testosterone. They wouldn't have tested positive because their test/epitest ratios were OK but it's possible to have all sorts of weird hormonal imbalances.)
drs23
Veteran
Tell me. I was married to a ***** was afflicted with the dreaded hormone imbalance. Can you say: WHACK! So in love one second and then after ya with a butcher knife saying how much she loves ya. Yes, I can understand.
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Knowing that the amount to trigger the fail is unlikely unless:
A) You have a fairly easy to spot tumor....or
B) You took this as a masking agent at the end of a Steroid "cycle"
...means I have little sympathy to the failing of the test. I'm just not buying that Cushing is the first known false positive on the HcG test.
Why I have no issue with his suspension being "shortened":
A) By every report I've read, it was a test at the combine. Unless I'm mistaken, Brian Cushing wasn't a member of the NFLPA at that time. I've often wondered why that argument hasn't been made (on behalf of the players) to bolster their collusion arguments.
B) ZERO positive tests since and....what can I say? I'm a Texans fan and I want them to have the best chance to succeed.
A) You have a fairly easy to spot tumor....or
B) You took this as a masking agent at the end of a Steroid "cycle"
...means I have little sympathy to the failing of the test. I'm just not buying that Cushing is the first known false positive on the HcG test.
Why I have no issue with his suspension being "shortened":
A) By every report I've read, it was a test at the combine. Unless I'm mistaken, Brian Cushing wasn't a member of the NFLPA at that time. I've often wondered why that argument hasn't been made (on behalf of the players) to bolster their collusion arguments.
B) ZERO positive tests since and....what can I say? I'm a Texans fan and I want them to have the best chance to succeed.
BigTimeTexanFan
Rookie
I thought the test was in September and he passed several tests afterwards as well.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Enter CnD with his expert opinion.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...-Athlete-Syndrome-quot-isn-t-C?urn=nfl-261207
I really haven't had the time to respond to so many "issues" that have been spilled forward in defense of Cushing. But I have a few basic comments about Overtrained Athlete Syndrome. This is something that Rice has had interest in recent years. This isn't anything new. The concept has been around since the early 1920's, mostly in a derogatory performance context. Early on, overtraining athletes were basically coined as "stale." This term has been carried onto the present day for a reason. Rather than go through pages of explanation, I'll ask you, does "stale" describe Cushing to you?
Overtraining Syndrome, if you stop and think about it, is nothing exotic, but simply a subset of what we all know as "Chronic Stress." Anybody not experienced significant periods of chronic stress in their lives? [If you haven't, please call my office immediately and let me know your secret. You will be handsomely rewarded] Energy goes down, immunologic markers (immunity) go down, Cortisol goes up, testosterone goes down, insulin goes up, adrenaline goes up..........and on and on and on...........you may not even feel as good as "stale"......nowhere to be found in the medical literature, though, an effect on HCG production in a male.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He passed the pre-combine test and he passed the testosterone test just before his rookie season but failed the hcg test. This is why CnD and I had a long discussion about time lines and whether he may have used 18 months or so before the failed test (like before or during his last college season) and then supplemented hcg because he thought his marbles weren't the right size or functioning normally.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I don't know what league policy is; I don't know what McNair's personal position would be; I don't know if he has the brass balls to do it; but if the evidence is solid enough, is the threat of a lawsuit a possibility?.That's the key element to the story. What is the new evidence, and is it compelling?
HouSportsWriter
SIAB
Number19
Hall of Fame
You just brought up a point I was about to post on; and that is, if the elevated level of hCG was naturally produced, then it could reoccur at any time. With what consequences? If McNair fails in his appeal, the possibility exists, however unlikely, that Cushing could be forced from football with further reoccurances. Am I over the top with this line of thinking? Maybe, but again, depending on the strength of the new evidence.......
(edit) Since posting the last two comments, and before I got to reading later posts, several posters have brought this up. I guess I'm not totally over the top.
I would think McNair definitely has the balls for it, but that doesn't mean that he will. It probably depends on whether he thinks his science is correct and will stand up in court.
Welcome to the board, HouTxFan.
Don't let them give you a hard time. You gave me some "purple dot" rep in another thread, and I appreciated it. Actually, the dot shows up gray on my screen, but it is the same either way. All this means is that you are a new poster, and you do not have any rep power yet. I forget how that works precisely, but I believe you have to have a certain number of posts, 50 I think, before your rep votes add to the point total of the recipient. Also, your rep points received will not show to the left of your posts until you hit 50 posts either.
And for your information, 49 is not old, it is middle-aged. Moreover, with medical science progressing the way it has been, you could easily live another 49 years yet, just to provide a little perspective. If you want to see some old people around here, find Thorn, Red Zone or cuppacoffee. Those are a few of our resident oldsters, and all three of them age seniority over you - hands down. In fact, I could be wrong, but I think all three of them might be card carrying members of the AARP.
(Just having fun with you guys)
In any case, you are welcome here, and I hope you will continue to share your perspectives with us for many years to come.
Thanks Mr. Mojo. I appreciate the welcome...kinda thought I might should just pack up my walker and go back to lurking, but...
so I didn't really want to do that.
GP
Go Texans!
I am worried this is a preemptive strike from McNair because POSSIBLY Cushing has already failed another test which hasn't been released yet.
Look at how long we didn't know about the failed test from the previous season.
Hopefully this is not the case. I'm just spit-ballin' here.
Big fan of Cushing, but am worried due to McNair going to these extremes in light of the odds that are stacked against Cushing. Either this is an owner trying to go to bat for his player, or it's an attempt to head off future problems or pending problems that haven't surfaced yet.
Number19
Hall of Fame
If I remember correctly, Cushing tested at elevated levels several times in the past, but the level calling for suspension was higher at that time. The league changed the rules to a lower level for accountability, and that was when Cushing got caught. Does anyone recall this?
(edit) Or maybe he was testing at elevated levels just below the maximum level?
(2nd edit) Found it : ...the facts most people are assuming about the test are wrong. He had measurable amounts of hCG in September but that wasn't a positive test because the B sample wasn't in high enough quantities. He had the true positive test (both A and B samples) in November...
http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/05/brian_cushing_confirmation_bia.html
(edit) Or maybe he was testing at elevated levels just below the maximum level?
(2nd edit) Found it : ...the facts most people are assuming about the test are wrong. He had measurable amounts of hCG in September but that wasn't a positive test because the B sample wasn't in high enough quantities. He had the true positive test (both A and B samples) in November...
http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2010/05/brian_cushing_confirmation_bia.html
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Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Brando
Hall of Fame
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Thanks Mr. Mojo. I appreciate the welcome...kinda thought I might should just pack up my walker and go back to lurking, but...
No offense, but I don't think anyone was being rude. Pollardized was just wondering if you had given him negative rep, and then everyone said no, since you just didn't have the rep power for the dot to light up green yet.
Kimmy
RealGirls LvFB!
I really haven't had the time to respond to so many "issues" that have been spilled forward in defense of Cushing. But I have a few basic comments about Overtrained Athlete Syndrome. This is something that Rice has had interest in recent years. This isn't anything new. The concept has been around since the early 1920's, mostly in a derogatory performance context. Early on, overtraining athletes were basically coined as "stale." This term has been carried onto the present day for a reason. Rather than go through pages of explanation, I'll ask you, does "stale" describe Cushing to you?
Overtraining Syndrome, if you stop and think about it, is nothing exotic, but simply a subset of what we all know as "Chronic Stress." Anybody not experienced significant periods of chronic stress in their lives? [If you haven't, please call my office immediately and let me know your secret. You will be handsomely rewarded] Energy goes down, immunologic markers (immunity) go down, Cortisol goes up, testosterone goes down, insulin goes up, adrenaline goes up..........and on and on and on...........you may not even feel as good as "stale"......nowhere to be found in the medical literature, though, an effect on HCG production in a male.
So, you're a doctor. Do you believe him? I genuinely want to know your opinion
GP
Go Texans!
Not so sure about that. The meeting would leak somehow, no matter how secretive it was kept. Then what would it look like to the public?
You don't jet into the Commish's office in a disguise and jet back home, looking over your shoulder the whole time. You make a big announcement and get out in front of the situation (unlike the first time, when it was just plopped onto the news media like a silent-but-deadly fart).
This is preemptive Public Relations, IMO, and the only thing I wonder is if he's already failed a test or if McNair is trotting this out there just in case something screwy happens on down the line.
Good owner, for taking his player's cause to the top, but the new theory is still not good enough for this fan's tastes. They need to go back to the drawing board at the P.R. offices and re-think their excuses, IMO.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
So, you're a doctor. Do you believe him? I genuinely want to know your opinion
Lest I be stoned, I'll present facts and let my wise MB brethren make their own conclusions.