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Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

Apparently, the ONLY reason Martin looked like a buddy of Incognito is that he was trying to fit in.

Right now, the Dolphins players coming out in support of the very well known POS Incognito look like a bunch of punks. They circle the wagon because they damn well know this was way beyond hazing and was straight up harassment. And it makes their franchise look like crap.

Based on history, the NFL is going to come down hard on this and I have no doubt that policies will be instituted for all franchises. Sadly, the tradition of silly/friendly hazing to build camaraderie among teammates will get broad-brushed by this incident.

Which would be a shame. Some things are innocent traditions like carrying pads, shaving heads, singing college fight songs, etc. But this Incognito crap is not one of them.
 
Double Barrel said:
Apparently, the ONLY reason Martin looked like a buddy of Incognito is that he was trying to fit in.

Right now, the Dolphins players coming out in support of the very well known POS Incognito look like a bunch of punks. They circle the wagon because they damn well know this was way beyond hazing and was straight up harassment. And it makes their franchise look like crap.

Based on history, the NFL is going to come down hard on this and I have no doubt that policies will be instituted for all franchises. Sadly, the tradition of silly/friendly hazing to build camaraderie among teammates will get broad-brushed by this incident.

Which would be a shame. Some things are innocent traditions like carrying pads, shaving heads, singing college fight songs, etc. But this Incognito crap is not one of them.
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See ... Dez Bryant was aheaad of his time .
 
For Cam Cleeland, hazing incident altered his NFL career - and life

Cam Cleeland was a New Orleans Saints rookie 15 years ago when he nearly lost vision in an eye after being hit with a bag full of coins. He has strong feelings on Miami's Richie Incognito.
The last time Cam Cleeland had two good eyes, a pillowcase was being pulled over his head.

It was 15 years ago in a University of Wisconsin La Crosse dormitory that housed New Orleans Saints players for training camp. Cleeland and his fellow rookies were herded at one end of a long, narrow hallway. Their veteran teammates, most of them drunk, lined either side of the hall, leaving about a one-foot gap to get through.

This was the gantlet, a well-worn Saints tradition of hazing and a rite of passage for the rookies. Each had to run through with a pillowcase over his head, allowing each veteran a free shot at him.

Thinking back on the situation still sends a shiver through Cleeland, and the emotional scars give him insight on what Miami tackle Jonathan Martin might be feeling after alleged bullying by Dolphins guard Richie Incognito (a onetime teammate of Cleeland's).

The memories of that hallway are chilling.

"Guys were just rabid," recalled Cleeland, a 6-foot-5, 270-pound tight end from the University of Washington. "And you had a couple guys in the front that would stand in a three-point stance, and you would fire off the line like he was going to knock you over.

"You tried to make it through, and they literally just beat the ever-loving crap out of you as you tried to get through. Everything you can imagine, from kicking, punching, scrapping. I remember my ankle was sore and I had missed two days of practice because I had rolled my ankle.

"Guys were like, 'He's got a bum ankle! We don't care!' And as I got to the end, I got punched in the nose, so my nose was bleeding. As I rolled my head, I got kicked in the leg and my ankle rolled. I brought my head up …"

And that's when the fateful blow came, one that not only changed Cleeland's life but turned a spotlight on the dark underbelly of professional football.

Cleeland was clubbed in the face by a sock filled with coins, coins that free-agent linebacker Andre Royal had spent all day collecting from teammates. Nobody knew what he planned to do with them, but they had donated them by the fistful.

Royal would later say he was aiming for the ribs. Instead, the shot shattered Cleeland's eye socket and nearly cost him his eye, which now provides him only with partial vision. He also suffered a badly broken nose. At first, Cleeland didn't know the severity of his injuries...
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He wasn't the only one. Defensive lineman Jeff Danish made it through the gantlet at a sprint but wound up crashing through a plate-glass window at the end of the hall. Only a safety bar kept him from sailing out the window and falling three stories. He ended up with 13 stitches in his left arm and later sued the Saints...
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Seven years later, when Cleeland was playing for St. Louis, the Rams drafted Incognito, who had been kicked off his college teams at Nebraska and Oregon.

"I'm not afraid to say that he was an immature, unrealistic scumbag," Cleeland said. "When it came down to it, he had no personality, he was a locker-room cancer, and he just wanted to fight everybody all the time. It was bizarre beyond belief."
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Damn, with "friends" like that, who needs enemies, 'eh?

I'm so tired of hearing these athlete entertainers talk about "going to war" (constantly mentioned on the radio and NFLN/ESPN).

Tell that to one of the many wounded warriors (real warriors) at the VA. Go up to them and tell them how a game you get paid millions to play is WAR. Yeah, tell them about your little war as they rehab lost limbs and broken psyches from real war in some god-forsaken hellhole like Afghanistan or Iraq.

Some of these pampered athletes need perspective. Many get it, but the whole war metaphor is tired and overused. You play a freakin' game, dudes, and are well paid to be our entertainers. You are not warriors. You are players, and nothing you do on the field and locker-room can justify treating another player with such contempt and abuse.

Hell, our nation's real warriors treat actual enemies with more respect than some of this player-on-player stuff.
 
The then 34-year-old volunteer told police that Incognito had been drinking, and when he was at the hole where she was working, he rubbed her privates with a golf club and knocked a pair of sunglasses off her head with it, according to the report.

“After that, he proceeded to lean up against her buttocks with his private parts as if dancing, saying ‘Let it rain! Let it rain!’” the report states. “He finally finished his inappropriate behavior by emptying bottled water in her face.”

The alleged incident occurred on May 18, 2012, at the Turnberry Resort & Club, during the annual “Fins Weekend Golf Tournament” for charity. The volunteer told Local 10, the ABC affiliate, that she can’t talk about the incident because she signed a confidentiality agreement. The Dolphins did not provide comment.
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She should have manned up and punched him in the nose, amiright? Huh? HUH?!?!

And that guy Cam Cleeland is clearly not tough enough to be in an NFL locker room.
 
Playoffs said:
For the entire season-and-a-half that he was with the Dolphins, he attempted to befriend the same teammates who subjected him to the abuse with the hope that doing so would end the harassment. This is a textbook reaction of victims of bullying.
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True dat. Don't be fooled by appearances, they don't always tell the story.
Playoffs said:
Despite these efforts, the taunting continued. Beyond the well-publicized voice mail with its racial epithet, Jonathan endured a malicious physical attack on him by a teammate
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I want to know who & what this was, the physical attack???
 
Recently suspended Miami Dolphins guard Richie Incognito does not have the support from NFL peers that he has received from teammates.

...in an unscientific survey conducted by team reporters for ESPN.com's NFL Nation over two days this week, Incognito does not have the same level of support from some of his peers. Three players participated from each team surveyed, with 72 players in all asked three questions. The players taking part were granted anonymity.
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Which player would you rather have as a teammate?
(21%)Incognito 15
(47%)Martin 34
(32%)Neither 23

Have you been the victim of hazing in the NFL?
(43%)True 31
(57%)False 41

Have you provided money as a result of being hazed? If true, what's the most you have given?*
(39%)True 28
(61%)False 44
*Amounts ranged from $40 to $18,000
 
The thing that I love most about this entire story is that no matter whether you think Martin handled this well or poorly -- no matter whether all this was a joke that got blown out of proportion or really was serious -- no matter what side you're on -- we can all take a lot of happiness from the fact that it's a guy like Incognito who is going down. Couldn't have happened to a worse human being

Even if it was all an elaborate fake -- I really think Incognito is done, and I know a certain #94 who has gotta be whistling karma right about now
 
gtexan02 said:
The thing that I love most about this entire story is that no matter whether you think Martin handled this well or poorly -- no matter whether all this was a joke that got blown out of proportion or really was serious -- no matter what side you're on -- we can all take a lot of happiness from the fact that it's a guy like Incognito who is going down. Couldn't have happened to a worse human being

Even if it was all an elaborate fake -- I really think Incognito is done, and I know a certain #94 who has gotta be whistling karma right about now
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Man I don't know, the league has accepted players who've done worse than this doooshbag. He may serve a one year suspension and give a bs apology and someone will sign him.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
Man I don't know, the league has accepted players who've done worse than this doooshbag. He may serve a one year suspension and give a bs apology and someone will sign him.
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I agree with gtexan that he is done. He's got such a history of poor behavior, I just can't think of any coach in their right mind that would welcome him to their football team. From a PR standpoint, they would immediately be personally criticized.
 
I think Martin is less likely to find another team, but don't hold me to that. I haven't been keeping up with the story really.

But I say that because for the most part *******s are generally more accepted in sports than guys that are perceived to be soft.

I have no idea what the ins and outs of this soap opera are, but I wouldn't have thrown my tray down and stormed out of the facility. I really don't know how I'd handle it because I don't see myself getting picked on in that environment. But I have been 'the new guy' in a locker room and only once did someone actually try to do this. This guy named Pete. This big defensive lineman. It never came to physical confrontation, but I verbally let him know I wasn't the one he wanted to try. It ended quickly. Didn't go to any coaches or administrators.

But I realize not everyone deals with conflict the same.

I guess what I'd expect Martin to do at the minimum is be willing to stand up for yourself. You're not in a normal, everyday life situation. You're an nfl offensive linemen. Getting picked on is unacceptable. Doesn't mean you have to haul off and punch a guy because he is trying you. Hell, I don't even have a problem with going to coaches as a method to restrain yourself.

But you can't say this guy is verbally abusing me and picking on me. Unless incognito is some real live gangster that you think is actually capable if killing you, then you have to be able to deal with that in your own for the most part.

I don't know either player. But I hate bullies. I don't have any negative thoughts about Martin as a person. Not everyone is willing to deal with that kind of confrontation. And that cool.
 
In his interview he stated that the things he said to Martin came from a place of love. WHAT!?!??!!?!? There is no one I love or hate enough to say I am going to slap your mother c*m in her mouth you half N****R. damn I actually laughed out loud when this clown said that with a straight face.
 
evuba7us.jpg
 
Could it be that the Dolphins is such a horrid organization with Jeff Ireland at the helm that part of Martin's motivation is to GTFO of Miami. :hmmm:

And, I loved in Incognito's interview with his workout buddy Jay Glazer how poor victimized Richie sad he just wanted to hug Johnathan Martin.
smiley-hug008.gif


Interesting that Billy Devaney, Incognito's former GM with the Rams, said after watching the Glazer interview that Richie was putting on a big act for the cameras.
nod.gif
 
Playoffs said:
And, I loved in Incognito's interview with his workout buddy Jay Glazer how poor victimized Richie sad he just wanted to hug Johnathan Martin.
smiley-hug008.gif
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yeah, no doubt. I mean, who here hasn't called their best buddy and threatened to physically assault their sister and rape their mom while throwing out racial insults, and then extorted money from them? Just dudes being dudes, amirite? [/sarcasm]

After hearing Antonio Smith talk about Incognito, that interview was goofy.
 
Giants legend Lawrence Taylor told the New York Daily News that Jonathan Martin should have kept his issues with Richie Incognito inside the locker roomTaylor, who spent his entire NFL career with the New York Giants from 1981 to 1993, played when the Giants kept all of their issues in-house. The Hall of Famer said that while he does not condone Incognito’s behavior in the Miami Dolphins bullying case, he would welcome Incognito back into the locker room before Martin. From the New York Daily News:“Martin wouldn’t be allowed back in my locker room,” Taylor told the Daily News. “I understand Incognito may be a bad guy, but all that stuff should have stayed in the locker room. I don’t know if I would let Incognito back in the locker room either, but he would be allowed back in my locker room before the other guy would. They are texting each other like two women. I don’t understand that.
“If you are that sensitive and weak-minded, then find another profession,” he said. “That’s the way I feel about it. This is the NFL. This is football. This is not table tennis. This is not golf. I don’t know how you bully a 350-pound player.”
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http://tracking.si.com/2013/11/09/lawrence-taylor-on-jonathan-martin/?sct=obnetwork
 
IDEXAN said:
Giants legend Lawrence Taylor told...
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LT should probably focus on staying away crack and underage prostitutes, remembering to register himself as a sex offender if he moves, and helping his son LT, Jr. prepare his own defense for multiple child molestation, statutory rape, and sodomy charges.
 
schefter said on mike and mike there was at least one other current phins player who felt similar to Martin about the phins culture/incognito although said player didnt experience all that Martin did and that at least one phins Admin also felt similarly and that it was only a matter of if these folks would have enough stones to tell the league and its investigator the truth about what they know
 
2012Champs said:
schefter said on mike and mike there was at least one other current phins player who felt similar to Martin about the phins culture/incognito although said player didnt experience all that Martin did and that at least one phins Admin also felt similarly and that it was only a matter of if these folks would have enough stones to tell the league and its investigator the truth about what they know
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There's a leadership vacuum on that team, and its apparent throughout this whole ordeal. Seems like a "go along to get along" mentality set in and one person with a big personality set the tone in the locker room, regardless of whether or not he was a fit person to set that tone. Coaching should have stepped up and set an example. Philbin is like a limp rag.

What a hot mess of a franchise. I know the Texans are going through their little trials and tribulations right now, with grumblings about accountability and coaching, but at least I'm confident that there are real leaders in the locker room who also happen to be good people.
 
Schefter reporting of at least one other player and two other members of the Dolphins organization who have similar complaints/experienced similar feelings that Martin did regarding Incognito. Question is whether they want to go on the record publicly.
 
Jeff DarlingtonVerified account ‏@JeffDarlington
As has often been case with this story, many premature conclusions. Do not assume - by any means - that Incognito's career in Miami is done.
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Here are Over 1,000 Text Messages That Richie Incognito and Jonathan Martin Allegedly Exchanged
Through a league source, The Big Lead has obtained the full transcript of over 1,000 text messages Incognito and Martin swapped between October 2012 and November 2013. The messages are what you’d expect from wealthy, young athletes: Incessant talk about partying, drinking, and chasing women. And there is plenty of bawdy back-and-forth banter that at times reads like a fraternity brother hazing a pledge. If Incognito was indeed tasked with ‘toughening up’ Martin – a question Dolphins coach Joe Philbin refused to answer in early November – did he cross a line? The text exchanges should offer some insight into the relationship between Incognito and Martin.

WARNING: Many of these text messages contain X-rated descriptions and explicit language. We redacted email addresses and home addresses, as well as photos and videos that showed the faces of others.
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If that is the most damning evidence, I feel really bad that Incognito's name has been dragged through the mud. He is a stereotypical meathead, but he sure as heck isn't a bully from that information.

I had exchanges with guys at college that could be clasified as bullying far easier than any of those texts.
 
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Playoffs said:
I read every single text and there better be more to the story.
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That is what I'm thinking - however then I ask myself if Martin looked like someone who was being bullied or threatened during the text exchange, and even after the news broke he still appeared to be buddies with Incognito.

If Incognito was acting in a different manner in person, I would expect to see at least a tempering in Martin's responses.

From Martin's last responses, blaming it on the agent, I'm starting to wonder if he's been led down a path that he knew to be a gross exagerattion of the situation.
 
To me this looks like Incognito had no reason to believe Martin would feel harassed, and Martin never asked him to knock it off.

And now I understand why the NFL was so quick to throw Incognito under the bus. I think this litany of texts is probably fairly common among players in the NFL and I don't think the NFL wants its players to have this kind of image -- using lots of racist and misogynist remarks in their exchanges. So it was easier to just paint Incognito as a virulent racist and bully -- as a rogue, the rare exception rather than the rule -- and hope the matter would go away, and wouldn't be seen as representative of a lot of NFL players.
 
mattieuk said:
If that is the most damning evidence, I feel really bad that Incognito's name has been dragged through the mud. He is a stereotypical meathead, but he sure as heck isn't a bully from that information.

I had exchanges with guys at college that could be clasified as bullying far easier than any of those texts.
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Half of the NFL might be stereotypical meatheads.
But so much of the media that's pushing this is to a large extent composed of semi-intellectuals who've never played football, certainly not played NFL ball, and have no idea what the real NFL culture is about. I mean their ignorance of the daily-life in the league for a player is utterly dazzling.
 
I got the feeling Martin joined a group of guys that he wasn't like. It was always about getting drunk, getting high, getting laid, strip clubs, etc. He was hanging with Aaron Hernandez's buddies and hard-scrabble guys like Incognito compared to going to the library and movies with Andrew Luck. I don't think he could hang... and didn't have a strong enough personality to chart his own course.

But there has to more about the team culture to this, imo. And the combination finally triggered something deeper in him that prompted his checking himself into a psych hospital.
 
Richie going scorched earth -- don't think it'll serve him well.

Richie Incognito ‏@68INCOGNITO
I have no further comment at this time. Please contact my attorney Mark Schamel @WCSRtweet 202-857-4481

FACT: Jonathan Martin told me he thought about taking his own life in MAY 2013 b/c he wasn't playing well. Told me he felt worthless.

I apologize to all of the women out there that I offended with my text messages to my close personal friend. [IMGwidthsize=20]http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/251/2/6/Crocodile_tears_by_Kaaziel.jpg[/IMG]

I'm guilty of being a loyal friend and good teammate. I apologize for my poor language and rude remarks. I've never denied it.

Kenny Zuckerman from Priority Sports.... What do you have to say for your actions? Why did you release the VM. What was your goal ?

Jon Martin---you started all of this when Kenny Zuckerman released the VM to ESPN. The same VM we joked about with @brianhartline

Dear Jon Martin..... The truth is going to bury you and your entire "camp". You could have told the truth the entire time.
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Playoffs said:
Richie going scorched earth -- don't think it'll serve him well.

Richie Incognito ‏@68INCOGNITO
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He's getting a little too brash here, but I think his patience is wearing a little thin. I still think he'd be better served by taking the high road like he's done in this whole situation. As crazy as it sounds I wouldn't mind the guy filling in at Left Guard for us this year. If Antonio is gone I don't see how it would be a problem.
 
Texn4life said:
He's getting a little too brash here, but I think his patience is wearing a little thin. I still think he'd be better served by taking the high road like he's done in this whole situation. As crazy as it sounds I wouldn't mind the guy filling in at Left Guard for us this year. If Antonio is gone I don't see how it would be a problem.
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As much as he has been painted as a bad guy, after reading those texts, I feel as though I would probably be talking a lot of stuff by this point as well if I were wearing his shoes.

Still wouldn't want him on the Texans he's been a problem at every NFL team he's been on.
 
Texn4life said:
As crazy as it sounds I wouldn't mind the guy filling in at Left Guard for us this year. If Antonio is gone I don't see how it would be a problem.
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The Texans aren't going to invite that kind of controversy. You should know that by now.
 
Texn4life said:
He's getting a little too brash here, but I think his patience is wearing a little thin. I still think he'd be better served by taking the high road like he's done in this whole situation. As crazy as it sounds I wouldn't mind the guy filling in at Left Guard for us this year. If Antonio is gone I don't see how it would be a problem.
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You don't see how having an unstable dumb animal that manages to get himself kicked off several teams would be a problem? Incognito is the epitomy of a meathead and dirty cheap shot artist. He uses those tactics to compensate for the mediocre abilities on the OL. No thanks Id rather the team try to find a better alternative than this bumb.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
You don't see how having an unstable dumb animal that manages to get himself kicked off several teams would be a problem? Incognito is the epitomy of a meathead and dirty cheap shot artist. He uses those tactics to compensate for the mediocre abilities on the OL. No thanks Id rather the team try to find a better alternative than this bumb.
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I'm looking at the alternative....... I don't like Incognito as a person just as much as anyone else. But from my understanding he has been graded as an above average Guard in the league for a few years now. Is he dirty? Yes. Cheap shot artist? Has been known to be at least to our team. Is he better than what we have on the team right now and probably what we can afford? Probably.

Listen, when I said that I know that its not going to happen. I also wouldn't mind having Calvin Johnson play for us.
 
chicagotexan2 said:
You don't see how having an unstable dumb animal that manages to get himself kicked off several teams would be a problem? Incognito is the epitomy of a meathead and dirty cheap shot artist. He uses those tactics to compensate for the mediocre abilities on the OL. No thanks Id rather the team try to find a better alternative than this bumb.
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Would you invite him to camp just to give him a little

wait for it

wait for it

wait for it

education?
 
Texn4life said:
I'm looking at the alternative....... I don't like Incognito as a person just as much as anyone else. But from my understanding he has been graded as an above average Guard in the league for a few years now. Is he dirty? Yes. Cheap shot artist? Has been known to be at least to our team. Is he better than what we have on the team right now and probably what we can afford? Probably.

Listen, when I said that I know that its not going to happen. I also wouldn't mind having Calvin Johnson play for us.
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An alternative to bringing Incognito or any other LG to start is to use our own LG, Quessenberry, who will be starting this year at LG.
 
TheIronDuke said:
An alternative to bringing Incognito or any other LG to start is to use our own LG, Quessenberry, who will be starting this year at LG.
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I like Ques and think he has "potential", but by no means am I convinced that he will be a viable option there after only seeing him for a limited amount of time. Anyone that is convinced of him right now feels that way only based on hope.
 
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