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Martin v. Incognito: [update] Wells Report released

IDEXAN said:
Welcome to the thread Canada, but we've already covered race, just take a couple minutes to review the earlier posts if you would.
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Didn't see this posted and it seemed quite relevant to the thread, so thanks anyways. When I want board ettiquette, forgive me but you're the last person I'll ask.
 
houstonspartan said:
Incognito probably has an army of players he controls. You can't fight that.
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Given the demos of NFL teams in 2013, I think it's a real reach to suggest a white guy could control an "army" of guys in an NFL locker room in a hassle with another player who's black.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Negged.

Terrible post.
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Yeah, it might be the longest, worst post that I've ever read. Its one thing to be wrong, but its another thing to throw out the card he did in the beginning and say all of that ridiculousness afterwards. Anyone who is blaming Martin and not Incognito at this point is just stupid. Martin's only fault is he should have told someone sooner about the situation.
 
IDEXAN said:
Given the demos of NFL teams in 2013, I think it's a real reach to suggest a white guy could control an "army" of guys in an NFL locker room in a hassle with another player who's black.
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How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?
 
adam schefter looked like he was having trouble controlling himself when talking about the situation, he's pissed and probably knows more than he's ready to say. incognito is a mentally unstable, rage fueled d-bag. always has been. always will be. he should've been kicked out of the league by his 3rd season, same for suh. this isnt about tying a rookie to a goalpost, or a random fight, or standard locker room hazing which does get a lot further than the public realizes. this is one insane guy going after a teammate in an excessively over the line manner - including threatening to kill him. martin did what anyone would've done. the only quiet recourse he would've had is something more violent than just a fist fight, because that wouldnt have stopped anything. he wasnt getting any help from the locker room or coaches. he wasnt going say anything, because it's bad form to speak out like that and people would label him a wuss if he did, and probably would've just made things worse. he tried to get away from the situation without making waves or making himself an even bigger target, which is all he really could do.
 
Let's for a minute speculate that Jonathan Martin does have psychological issues and has attempted suicide...

and Richie Incognito somehow found out about Martin's attempt to kill himself -- and subsequently shared that personal and sensitive information with his father who has now shared it with the world...

that might be characterized as bullying, no? Whaddaya gonna do, rookie? Kill yourself, again?

Scooter said:
adam schefter looked like he was having trouble controlling himself when talking about the situation, he's pissed and probably knows more than he's ready to say...
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Incognito called him out and attacked him on Twitter.
 
houstonspartan said:
How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?
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Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
 
IDEXAN said:
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
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This is a terrible line of thinking.

For example, I assume that you have never been President. Thus, by your line of thinking, you cannot criticize or praise him.
 
IDEXAN said:
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
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The only thing that got a rise out of me was you attempting to teach me any board ettiquette. The fact that you are who you are I could care less about. You clearly enjoy being a complete jerk. But I can't comment further on that because I don't have much insight on this.
 
IDEXAN said:
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
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I've played football.

And that experience offers precisely zero credibility or lucidity to the string of inanity that constitutes your contributions to this thread. You came in playing the race card early (yes, the "I wonder when race will be brought into this" is a race card). You came in, posing as some authority on football and locker rooms and bullying and psychology and Jonathan Martin, deigning to lecture us as if you're speaking from some position of knowledge.

You aren't.

You wanted to make this a "OMG RACISM! PC RUN AMOK!" post, as per your wont. It didn't even become one (when it easily could have, considering the information that's come out) and you kept pressing it. Pulling the pin and replacing the pin aren't the same act. Then you wanted to make this a "OMG WUSSIFICATION OF FOOTBALL! PC RUN AMOK!" by targeting Martin, all the while deflecting or ignoring the elefante incógnito in the room (in your defense, judging by the name, he can be hard to see).

And nothing that has come out could remotely move the dial toward anything you've brought up.

But that doesn't stop you from doubling down.

Keep acting, though, that a couple of years of mediocre college ball gives you some sort of expertise in what's happening here, in all of its fluid dynamism.

Because the agenda comes first.
 
IDEXAN said:
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
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No one is angry that you expressed your opinion; we are just saying that your opinion is DUMB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
houstonspartan said:
Shaking my head.

He is standing his ground. He is saying enough, and he is getting this all out in the open. You wanted Martin to punch Ignognito in the locker room. Again: Incognito probably has an army of players he controls. You can't fight that.

The good news here is that Martin will win and Incognito will lose. Take a read of the voice mails, when you get a chance...
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I really don't know how anyone can look at these events objectively and come to a conclusion other than Martin standing his ground. I don't think IDEXAN has ever really been bullied in the same way as Martin if he can't come up with an experience where he was so bullied that he wasn't able to stand up for himself and against the bully except by removing himself from the context of the harassment to a place that's safe to do so.

With the existing dynamic and nature of the harassment and abuse, I think Martin's tact makes a lot of sense (more to lose, less to gain by staying within the hierarchy that constitutes the MIA locker room... a fact that our resident locker room expert should easily realize). And, in the end, it looks like he might be accomplishing a great deal.

Just as there are many different examples of bullying, there are many different examples of one standing his ground. Just because they don't match up with the exact, precise boundaries IDEXAN is drawing, doesn't mean they don't exist. They do. To me it looks like bullying and it looks like standing one's ground.
 
RazorOye said:
I've played football.

And that experience offers precisely zero credibility or lucidity to the string of inanity that constitutes your contributions to this thread. You came in playing the race card early (yes, the "I wonder when race will be brought into this" is a race card). You came in, posing as some authority on football and locker rooms and bullying and psychology and Jonathan Martin, deigning to lecture us as if you're speaking from some position of knowledge.

You aren't.

You wanted to make this a "OMG RACISM! PC RUN AMOK!" post, as per your wont. It didn't even become one (when it easily could have, considering the information that's come out) and you kept pressing it. Pulling the pin and replacing the pin aren't the same act. Then you wanted to make this a "OMG WUSSIFICATION OF FOOTBALL! PC RUN AMOK!" by targeting Martin, all the while deflecting or ignoring the elefante incógnito in the room (in your defense, judging by the name, he can be hard to see).

And nothing that has come out could remotely move the dial toward anything you've brought up.

But that doesn't stop you from doubling down.

Keep acting, though, that a couple of years of mediocre college ball gives you some sort of expertise in what's happening here, in all of its fluid dynamism.

Because the agenda comes first.
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I want to have the sex with this post.
 
toronto said:
LOL at my incompetence. For the first time in my posting 'career' here, was going to neg rep...and I ended up giving him pos rep.

I rock.
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lol. Rock on

FWIW, I played a lot of ball too. I witnessed a lot of harassing, hazing and all out brawls amongst teammates, but nothing out of the ordinary for what guys typically do.

That said, from what I've read this asshat took it waaay beyond typical hazing and locker room shenanigans. The transcript of the VM is very disturbing to say the least. Not only would I ban this dude, I'd press charges

The only thing I'd fault Martin with is keeping this to himself and not informing his employer. Maybe he did and the Phins thought it'd work itself out, who knows
 
RazorOye said:
...To me it looks like bullying and it looks like standing one's ground.
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Yep. Who's Martin going to go to, the Dolphins' Player Council...?

Oh, wait, Incognito is a member of the Player's Council. Whether it actually is or not, Martin had every expectation that this was an institutional problem and acted accordingly.
 
IDEXAN said:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as blah blah blah.
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Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...
 
Double Barrel said:
Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...
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QFT!

Man, I've been trying to Rep you so much lately I'm beginning to feel like I'm stalking you. Ha, my thought process is waay too similar to yours. Except your words express them much better than mine.

Ok, sorry for the :grouphug: amidst such a manly thread. Carry on..
 
NOBODY calls Idexan a chicken

tumblr_mlm1jwqU8Y1s89kbpo1_500.gif
 
if you're here and interested in hearing what a credentialed football player has to say/think on this issue (perhaps because the established 'expertise' offered thus far doesn't somehow measure up and has left you wanting/wondering), gannon had this bit on sirius earlier:

4 and a half minutes that builds to his experiences with the dyfunction with the Raiders, in their locker room

interesting perspective

http://soundcloud.com/siriusxmsports/rich-gannon-co-host-of-the-4

and it seems that he arrives at a different conclusion than our current, resident authority.

Strange, that.
 
Double Barrel said:
Except for the fact that, you know, those that have played pro football - both as players, coaches, and both - are coming out against Incognito's actions and behavior.

So what are you going to say to those guys? Especially since your zero experience in a pro locker room means your opinions are worthless....according to your own illogical perspective...
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LOL.

Exactly.
 
A complete A-hole who raised an EVEN BIGGER A-hole said:
This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ass. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE
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While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.
 
Dread-Head said:
While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.
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Dread,

Glad to hear that you were able to find your way out of the darkness. A lot of people have had trouble with anxiety/depression. I have had periods of anxiety, as have a lot of my friends. In fact, I was just telling a buddy yesterday about the one time I had a panic attack. (I had been laid off from my job, and the bank was being difficult about restructuring my mortgage).

I openly advocate that people should see a psychologist or psycharist if they are feeling down. There is no shame in it, and it can be helpful.

Remember when Ron Artest won the title with the Lakers a few years back? He thanked his therapist. He'd been dealing with a lot of issues for years, and said having a therapist helped him.

The Incognito's are trash. Pure and simple.
 
Battle of the message board dads .

idrd1994 vs QB75

As far as playing football goes , I played some . I've seen some hazing and it was egged on by the coaches sometimes . The freshman vs the juniors was always a fight . We used to box against them with two mouth pieces between 50 guys . What did this accomplish , nothing .

In my opinion Icognito knows Martin won't fight back . Unfortunately for Martin the only cure for Richie is breaking a chair over his head . Then it's not worth his while . On a side note has Richie been on a winning team ?
 
Playoffs said:
Seems to clearly be Richie's daddy posting this stuff:

[IMGwidthsize=400]http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/195b7o509fmjqpng/original.png[/IMG]<--click for larger


Quote:
This is a joke, suspend an honest player for a drug addict and a player that tried to kill himself three times. Complete ****in utter BS and this team is just covering their ass. What a friggin joke. Strange only coments are from Zuckerman and not Martin himself. Irleand and Philbin should be ashamed of themselves, this is a ****in joke. Suspend a pro bowl player for a player that does not even belong in the NFL. FUKIN JOKE its all going to come out in the wash and Ireland should be ****in hung because he , philbin and everyone else knew Martin did drugs and attempted suicide three times. But hey, the regular people will never hear that right ? ****IN JOKE FOLKS, ****IN JOKE.
Late last night:
Quote:
Incognito will look good in a Jets uniform beating the piss out of our defensive line in a few weeks. Watch, learn , and we will have ? Jonahtan Martin, draft bust, drug addict and on suicide watch, what a team. LMFAO.
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First, it's funny how Daddy Incognito's arrows strike his own son, as well.
Arriving in the 2005 NFL draft with a history of off-the-field issues and a serious knee injury that pushed him from possible first-rounder to the third, Incognito’s time in St. Louis was certainly tumultuous. That’s a categorization Incognito wouldn’t deny.

A self described “big kid” when he was in St. Louis, Incognito simply refused to grow up and do what was necessary to be a professional. Off the field, he liked to party and alcohol and drugs were part of his regular diet. On the field, he had little control of his temper. Incognito was out of control.

"I mean, we'd have practice the next morning, and I'm out until all hours of the night, running the town," Incognito told NFL.com over the summer. "Drinking. Doing drugs. I was doing everything that a professional athlete should not be doing."
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Dread-Head said:
While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.
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But much more importantly I'm very glad you did not, Dread, as this world needs more people like you in it.

I see suicides wayyy to often -- just lost another friend Friday -- and what's left behind lasts longer than you can imagine.
 
houstonspartan said:
Dread,

Glad to hear that you were able to find your way out of the darkness. A lot of people have had trouble with anxiety/depression. I have had periods of anxiety, as have a lot of my friends. In fact, I was just telling a buddy yesterday about the one time I had a panic attack. (I had been laid off from my job, and the bank was being difficult about restructuring my mortgage).

I openly advocate that people should see a psychologist or psycharist if they are feeling down. There is no shame in it, and it can be helpful.

Remember when Ron Artest won the title with the Lakers a few years back? He thanked his therapist. He'd been dealing with a lot of issues for years, and said having a therapist helped him.

The Incognito's are trash. Pure and simple.
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The things which helped me (and it took YEARS) were:

a. My mom

b. My REAL friends

c. reconnecting to my faith

d. Finding interest to give me some vent for anything negative.

e. Finding OTHER people who've been to that horrible place and lived to tell of it and talking to them.



People like Incognito's dad have no idea how blessed their existence has been if they can treat something that serious as some character flaw to be stigmatized.
 
Playoffs said:
First, it's funny how Daddy Incognito's arrows strike his own son, as well.




But much more importantly I'm very glad you did not, Dread, as this world needs more people like you in it.

I see suicides wayyy to often -- just lost another friend Friday -- and what's left behind lasts longer than you can imagine.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Truthfully if I hear of someone in that place I try to talk them in. It's like being in a dark soundproof tunnel. You can't hear ANYTHING anyone is trying to say to youand think that NOONE can possibly understand you. It all seems really surreal and when you reach the darkest point you stop caring about EVERYTHING. The last thing you stop caring about is yourself. That point of no return is someplace I wouldn't wish on ANYONE INCLUDING my worst enemy...and I HATE that muff-hugga
 
Dread-Head said:
While this is NOT something I broadcast, this butthole has forced me out of the closet. In 1998 I found everything to be utterly black. I'd given up all hope and tried to remove myself from the face of the earth. I LITERALLY could see no reason to live. I hope neither Mr. Ignognito nor his microscopic DCIK of a dad never know what that's like, but it's nice to know that he's of the opinion that anyone who isn't him or his son should be lying dead somewhere. I pitty this imbecile and his a-hole son. If karma does exist I hope they both encounter someone who treats them the way they treat the world.
Click to expand...

Dread, I have been there, and am still crawling out. It really is a black hole, or quicksand. I so frigging appreciate knowing many have been down this road. It sucks.
 
Miami Dolphins are expected to release guard Richie Incognito
“He’s done,” a ranking club source said Monday. “There are procedures in place and everyone wants to be fair. The NFL is involved. But from a club perspective he’ll never play another game here.”
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My understanding is "conduct unbecoming" will be invoked, which means no pay I think?

****************************

Tania Ganguli &#8207;@taniaganguli
Asked if he's surprised at Incognito's current predicament, Antonio Smith said: "Definitely not."

Why? "You are what you are." #Texans
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Former Colts GM Bill Polian echoed similar sentiments on SportsCenter Monday. Polian said Indianapolis had "a very strong anti-hazing and anti-bullying policy" when he and Dungy ran the team and that the policy was "enforced" by leaders in the locker room.

This is something the Dolphins clearly don't have. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but it's quite clear something went seriously amiss while Miami was building their locker-room culture.
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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on...oli-say-richie-incognito-was-off-draft-boards
*****
Polian was on Sportscenter this afternoon and his remarks there were more elaborate than what's here, but this is the gist of his comments and it points to the problems Miami had which goes all the way to the HC & GM, the ownerships principle reps and even the owner himself and Stephen Ross is not highly regarded.
I couldn't imagine this situation existing here in Houston or in other top rated NFL organizations when it comes to player personnel relations, but sometimes the crap does slip thru the cracks. For example we all know that NE owner Bob Kraft with Belichick at the helm got stuck with a player charged with homicide, and that happened even after they re-upped him with a very generous, new contract extension.
 
There is a reason I only talk about a few issues in the NSZ. I don't know enough to speak intelligently about a lot about many of the things discussed there. To me this isn't even something that should be up for debate. I pray for Martin's well being and hope Incognito gets hit by a bus. Yeah I said it!
 
Great article on ESPN

Beneath the disgusting details of threats and taunts and racism lies an uncomfortable truth: The NFL needs Richie Incognito more than it needs Jonathan Martin.

Coaches love players like Incognito. They look at guys like Martin, known as soft-spoken and thoughtful while at Stanford, with skepticism. Does he have the killer instinct? Does he care enough? Those questions don't apply to Incognito. Coaches might not want to see him after hours, but they love him on the field. He's indispensable, a tone-setter, the guy who announces your team's presence with a crazed, through-the-whistle style that is prized at every level.

Coaches chuckle among themselves: He might be a horrible human being, but he's our horrible human being. Sociopathic behavior from players at certain positions is not only tolerated but cherished. As long as it stays out of the headlines and the police blotters -- in other words, as long as it's kept in-house -- it provides the kind of toughness you need to compete.

Yes, this is America's game.

Own it. Even now, even after the extent of Incognito's viciousness has been revealed through voice mails and texts to Martin, there are NFL personnel people telling reporters, like Sports Illustrated's Jim Trotter, that it's a man's game and Martin failed to handle it like a man. According to these unnamed men, Martin should have manned up and handled the situation face-to-face, with his fists if necessary.

You know -- like a man.

Seriously, though, did these men's men read the things Incognito reportedly said to Martin? Don't we encourage people not to deal with the deranged, to let the professionals handle it? Does anyone believe Incognito would be cowed by a confrontation?

To blame Martin is to ignore reality and uphold the twisted norms of the misguided subculture that allowed this type of environment to persist and -- dare we say -- thrive. It's also a willful refusal to connect the threat of violence to the reality of our gun-soaked, disrespect-me-and-pay-the-price ethos that has people like Aaron Hernandez sitting in jail.

Martin should be praised for walking away and letting the Dolphins sit amid the fetid steam of Incognito's behavior. Speaking of Martin, Bart Scott told Stephen A. Smith and Ryan Ruocco on ESPN New York, "Thank God he walked away. They've got to be thankful he didn't bring a gun to work."

It's soul-crushing to see how many situations in football cause people to break out the "wussification of America" card, as if being swindled and harassed and threatened is just part of the NFL workplace, the price you pay for having a job that too many American males look upon as the pinnacle of human achievement. If you can't hack having your mother threatened and your race demeaned and your well being threatened, you know, move aside for someone who can.
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9926888/miami-dolphins-kept-richie-incognito-control
 
houstonspartan said:
How do you know some of the players within Igcognito's crew weren't black? Stupid comes in all colors.

You think Martin is weak. That's your opinion. I think Martin is much, much smarter than Igcognito. Instead of punching him in the face - which is what you wanted Martin to do - Martin simply saved texts and emails.

Martin lost a lot of battles, but, guess who is going to win the war?
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This is true

And be cut before the start of next season if the Lawyers will let the Dolphins cut him. Martin has been soft and played terrible this yr. He was being counted on to be the Dolphins LT for the next 10 yrs. He couldn't handle those responsibilities and was weak minded.

This story gets the fans mind off of his terrible play and focuses on his feelings, which was his goal in all of this. Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team. Did he go too far and use despicable behavior? Yes.

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.
 
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IDEXAN said:
Here's what I really think besides thoroughly enjoying it when everyone gets all pizzed-off at me for expressing my opinion:
those who've never played football are about as qualified to offer their opinions about intra team chemistry on a football team as those who have never been in the service are qualified to offer perceptive insights to the pros & cons of women in combat units as men are qualified to offer thoughtful insight & comments about the experiences of discomfort and pain that women suffer during childbirth.
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d65.jpg
 
steelbtexan said:
This is true

And be cut before the start of next season if the Lawyers will let the Dolphins cut him. Martin has been soft and played terrible this yr. He was being counted on to be the Dolphins LT for the next 10 yrs. He couldn't handle those responsibilities and was weak minded.

This story gets the fans mind off of his terrible play and focuses on his feelings, which was his goal in all of this. Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team. Did he go too far and use despicable behavior? Yes.

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.

Martin's biggest knock coming out of college was that he wasn't physical enough. Sounds like Martin will be Gary's RT of the future. I'm sure he will fit in quite well with Newton.

BTW, this is why it will be a long time before an openly gay player will be welcomed on a team. Teams look to avoid stuff like this like the plague. If you were to ask Ireland if he's glad that he drafted Martin or if he wishes he would've passed on Martin and Ireland was honest, I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.
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Wow.

Thinking like this is why Martin will likely get a massive liability settlement from the Dolphins.

So, "toughening him up" means using the n-word, and threatening to kill him? Extorting money from him?

And, his terrible play likely would have gotten him eventually cut. If he couldn't hack it, or wasn't physical enough, the system would have weeded him out.

Mario was labeled soft coming out of college, and I don't think any Texans players or staff harassed him to this level. At least, we haven't heard about it.

The Dolphins could have simply benched him and then released him at the end of the season.

Would you have preferred Martin bring in a gun and go ballistic and kill people? Would that have made him "tough" enough?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
steelbtexan said:
Incognito was trying to toughen Martin up and help the team.
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yea, the voicemail messages and the texts and the racial slurs and the fines and suspensions were all just some clever farce. He was channeling his Prince Hal mischief so that he might emerge a heroic Henry V.

Is that about it?

But apparently most of the Dolphins OL mates agrred with Incognito and backed him up. The Dolphins coaches must have agreed with Incognito also because they didn't stop it. This means that Martin wont be long for Miami.
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No. There's nothing "apparently" about any of this. This is you making a scenario fit what it must for the rest of your narrative to cohere and calling it the logical conclusion.

It's sorta impressive how certain you and IDEXAN are in your conclusions with how little you actually know.

I garuntee you Martin wouldn't be a Dolphin today.
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Ibid.
 
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