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Mariota

Texian said:
Two of Mariots'a TD passes were on busted coverage. Pretty easy pitch and catch. That does wonders for a QB rating. Mariota still gets credit for spotting a lonely WR deep behind the defense.
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backhanded compliment as I've ever seen. if it quacks like a duck its probably a duck.

Texian said:
Watching the game it appeared to me that Cook did a better job in the pocket, better presence, awareness and execution under pressure.
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when the pocket wasn't there in the second half he collapsed with it unable to execute under pressure, hence false statement. why because he lacks escape & natural athletic ability, doubt that improves much against superior NFL talent.
 
Mariota didn't look that strong last night IMO. Tough loss at home. With title hopes probably dashed will be interesting to see how he is utilized moving forward. Still the team first guy or will he be allowed to cut it loose?
 
And it begins. Mariota must be too far ahead of the other QBs if garbage like this is already circulating.

There are things about Mariota that I don't necessarily like, but his mental makeup isn't one of them.
 
IMHO Mariota will be the first QB drafted. The bad news is JAX could be in a position to receive a kings ransom for rights to Mariota.

Three years from now I'm not sure Mariota is best QB in this class.
 
Mariota has a lot of similarities to Robert Griffin (who I notoriously did not like), but I think his ability to win in the pocket is the biggest difference between them. He's as good against pressure as any other QB in this class.
 
WolverineFan said:
Mariota has a lot of similarities to Robert Griffin (who I notoriously did not like), but I think his ability to win in the pocket is the biggest difference between them. He's as good against pressure as any other QB in this class.
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I've always thought of him as a "clean version" of Colin Kaepernick.
 
toronto said:
Which does NOT hurt his cause. I have no problem with a massive tank from the Titans to get this kid.
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Edit, the Stanford game helped cement his status. The kid is a frigging stud and it will be a bidding war for that pick if Oakland or Jax get the pick.
 
Texian said:
IMHO Mariota will be the first QB drafted. The bad news is JAX could be in a position to receive a kings ransom for rights to Mariota.

Three years from now I'm not sure Mariota is best QB in this class.
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He's not...physical tools not withstanding, he's got bust written all over him & i can't see why noone see this.
 
Mr teX said:
He's not...physical tools not withstanding, he's got bust written all over him & i can't see why noone see this.
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Are we watching the same games? I have watched several this year and this kid is just outstanding. He not only has mobility, but a rocket arm and is accurate. He is also pocket first, then run. I don't get the mistrust.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/511459/marcus-mariota

Those game by game stats are impressive, but look at his career. It's not like this is his first great season. He was likely #1 last year too, and this year more teams are crying for a QB.
 
toronto said:
Are we watching the same games? I have watched several this year and this kid is just outstanding. He not only has mobility, but a rocket arm and is accurate. He is also pocket first, then run. I don't get the mistrust.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/511459/marcus-mariota

Those game by game stats are impressive, but look at his career. It's not like this is his first great season. He was likely #1 last year too, and this year more teams are crying for a QB.
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Spread O qbs always put up ridiculous stats....you almost have to throw those completely out of the pic when evaluating them b/c they play mostly from the shotgun and the offenses they play in spread the defense so thin, it allows for them to see the field better and make reads easier. It gives the appearance that they're good pocket passers when they're really not. In the event teams get after them, they're good enough athletes to get away. In other words, the offenses they run in college compliment their skill sets. That wont be the case in the nfl. They may have a package or 2 that will, but ultimately teams will corral you and make you beat them from the pocket and coaches are gonna make u run their systems .and most of these types of guys can't do it....At least consistently anyway.

Anyway, i see nothing out of Mariota to indicate he'll be any different from the likes of Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb or even Kaepernick. Also spread O qbs with physical tools and measureables.

Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
 
Just getting to this weekends game tape & Mariota is taking more control, making decisive reads, looks 100% recovered & stronger, high percentage/low risk decisions. His numbers are not what's important to focus on its the way he dictates tempo, leadership & gamesmanship.
 
Mr teX said:
Spread O qbs always put up ridiculous stats....you almost have to throw those completely out of the pic when evaluating them b/c they play mostly from the shotgun and the offenses they play in spread the defense so thin, it allows for them to see the field better and make reads easier. It gives the appearance that they're good pocket passers when they're really not. In the event teams get after them, they're good enough athletes to get away. In other words, the offenses they run in college compliment their skill sets. That wont be the case in the nfl. They may have a package or 2 that will, but ultimately teams will corral you and make you beat them from the pocket and coaches are gonna make u run their systems .and most of these types of guys can't do it....At least consistently anyway.

Anyway, i see nothing out of Mariota to indicate he'll be any different from the likes of Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb or even Kaepernick. Also spread O qbs with physical tools and measureables.

Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
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I would buy this argument but the trend in the NFL suggests more than half the league has moved towards a spread set, with 4 and 5 WR packages and QBs making lots of quick reads. This kid has the skills to manage that, and has still shown good pocket presence when necessary. More important, he stays healthy and has a cannon. Gabbert and Kolb don't match that, and I long thought Locker and Gabbert were ridiculous reaches.
 
Mr teX said:
Spread O qbs always put up ridiculous stats....you almost have to throw those completely out of the pic when evaluating them b/c they play mostly from the shotgun and the offenses they play in spread the defense so thin, it allows for them to see the field better and make reads easier. It gives the appearance that they're good pocket passers when they're really not. In the event teams get after them, they're good enough athletes to get away. In other words, the offenses they run in college compliment their skill sets. That wont be the case in the nfl. They may have a package or 2 that will, but ultimately teams will corral you and make you beat them from the pocket and coaches are gonna make u run their systems .and most of these types of guys can't do it....At least consistently anyway.

Anyway, i see nothing out of Mariota to indicate he'll be any different from the likes of Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb or even Kaepernick. Also spread O qbs with physical tools and measureables.

Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
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You are profiling him because of his offense. I understand the temptation, because most spread QB's that have come out recently have flamed out in the NFL. However, those guys you are listing couldn't operate their offense without a clean pocket. The difference with Kaepernick being that he could escape pressure with his legs.

Mariota can escape as well, but he is also better against pressure than any other QB I've watched this year. Sure his offense gets guys open for him, but he's playing with backup OT's and under constant pressure and still hitting the right guys on every play. Can he run an NFL offense or read NFL defenses? We won't know until he starts playing NFL football. But he has proven that he can win in the pocket and that's a huge difference from other recent spread QB's.
 
Mr teX said:
Spread O qbs always put up ridiculous stats....you almost have to throw those completely out of the pic when evaluating them b/c they play mostly from the shotgun and the offenses they play in spread the defense so thin, it allows for them to see the field better and make reads easier. It gives the appearance that they're good pocket passers when they're really not. In the event teams get after them, they're good enough athletes to get away. In other words, the offenses they run in college compliment their skill sets. That wont be the case in the nfl. They may have a package or 2 that will, but ultimately teams will corral you and make you beat them from the pocket and coaches are gonna make u run their systems .and most of these types of guys can't do it....At least consistently anyway.

Anyway, i see nothing out of Mariota to indicate he'll be any different from the likes of Blaine Gabbert, Kevin Kolb or even Kaepernick. Also spread O qbs with physical tools and measureables.

Blaine Gabbert
Kevin Kolb
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Not defending Mariota but I have an issue with this statement. If a coach doesn't have a system that matches well with Mariota's skillset and experience, then that's on that coach.

I could see Chip Kelly taking him and grooming him to be Nick Foles' replacement. Same with Sean Payton; I mean, how much longer will Drew keep playing?

So I understand your point, but there are teams where Mariota would work well.
 
ObsiWan said:
Not defending Mariota but I have an issue with this statement. If a coach doesn't have a system that matches well with Mariota's skillset and experience, then that's on that coach.

I could see Chip Kelly taking him and grooming him to be Nick Foles' replacement. Same with Sean Payton; I mean, how much longer will Drew keep playing?

So I understand your point, but there are teams where Mariota would work well.
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imo, u should be looking for a "1 size fits all" type...not one that can only really flourish and live up to their talents if they're in the right offense. Those one size fits all guys are usually polished pocket passers and It's why immensely talented guys like Kaepernick just look ok, instead of them playing up to their talent level and dominating the league. This is the fundamental problem and it's why most of these types of guys don't make it. I won't rule him succeeding out, but I doubt he plays up to where he's going to be drafted
 
ObsiWan said:
Not defending Mariota but I have an issue with this statement. If a coach doesn't have a system that matches well with Mariota's skillset and experience, then that's on that coach.

I could see Chip Kelly taking him and grooming him to be Nick Foles' replacement. Same with Sean Payton; I mean, how much longer will Drew keep playing?

So I understand your point, but there are teams where Mariota would work well.
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I couldn't see Kelly taking him today to be Foles' replacement .... He's a good young QB who's performed very well.

Now if Foles' were a 10-12 year veteran .... Yeah. (see Drew Brees)
 
Corrosion said:
I couldn't see Kelly taking him today to be Foles' replacement .... He's a good young QB who's performed very well.

Now if Foles' were a 10-12 year veteran .... Yeah. (see Drew Brees)
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Foles was really struggling before he got injured. I don't think the Eagles are very content right now with the QB position.
 
Mariota the beast, lol. Let the Titans have this buster. If he came into the league 3 years ago he might have had a 3 year window to become great, but the NFL has caught up to QBs that can't climb a pocket and go through progressions.

Ohio State is the closest thing they've seen to a pro defense all year and after the first quarter those 1 look hot reads were taken away and thus so was a lot of the effectiveness of Mariota.

He still had a decent to good game, I obviously don't count that pick against him at the end, but this guy just has too much Kaepernick look to me for me to truly get behind him. BTW, Kaep is 10 pounds heavier at the same height.
 
I went into this game looking for him to prove me wrong regarding my thoughts about him & instead he pretty much validated everything i said in this thread. He looked like i thought he'd look once a talented & well coached team got after him.......average. Mostly everyone he hit on pass plays were wide open due to good play design and/or formationing but if you were to look at his stats by themselves, it looks like he was dealing. I like his poise and measureables, but beyond that, i'm not seeing him as this super prospect. He's right in line with all these other spread offense guys from the past that everyone said was gonna be so much different than the last.

Take away their legs and they don't really know what to do..so used to being able to run away from everything.
 
The Bucs can go ahead and start printing up those jerseys. To me this is almost as much of a slam dunk as Luck to Colts.
 
Blake said:
The Bucs can go ahead and start printing up those jerseys. To me this is almost as much of a slam dunk as Luck to Colts.
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I think you're right it happens, I gotta disagree about the slam dunk thing though. I bet this is gonna be VERY hotly debated throughout the draft buildup.
 
Blake said:
The Bucs can go ahead and start printing up those jerseys. To me this is almost as much of a slam dunk as Luck to Colts.
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hmm, the southern lad or the foreigner...

yeah some tough choice... :kitten:
 
Blake said:
The Bucs can go ahead and start printing up those jerseys. To me this is almost as much of a slam dunk as Luck to Colts.
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Suppose Mariota screws the pooch at the combine or just simply decides he doesn't need to participate while Winston participates and shines? Would you still think Mariota goes 1-1?

I ask because I don't think it's a done deal until the combine is over.
 
Blake said:
The Bucs can go ahead and start printing up those jerseys. To me this is almost as much of a slam dunk as Luck to Colts.
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Not so fast ....


They could easily take the more "ready to play" Winston. Despite his off the field problems , he's the "prototype" and would be ready to go game one while Mariota likely needs to carry a clip board for a while.

I don't like Winston .... But he is likely the better (physical) prospect right now as a Quarterback.
 
ObsiWan said:
Suppose Mariota screws the pooch at the combine or just simply decides he doesn't need to participate while Winston participates and shines? Would you still think Mariota goes 1-1?

I ask because I don't think it's a done deal until the combine is over.
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Corrosion said:
Not so fast ....


They could easily take the more "ready to play" Winston. Despite his off the field problems , he's the "prototype" and would be ready to go game one while Mariota likely needs to carry a clip board for a while.

I don't like Winston .... But he is likely the better (physical) prospect right now as a Quarterback.
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Winston's off the field issues are reason enough not to sink #1 overall money on him.

To me, Mariota is the superior prospect. His athleticism and maturity are a big selling point for him. A willingness to learn and be a sponge is what coaches want. Not someone they have to babysit.
 
The greatest thing Mariota did was win the Heismann his last year he played in college so he didn't have to be overly scrutinized every single time he went to a bar or made a joke during his last year in college.
 
TexansFTW said:
The greatest thing Mariota did was win the Heismann his last year he played in college so he didn't have to be overly scrutinized every single time he went to a bar or made a joke during his last year in college.
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Or, more accurately, Mariota never put himself into positions where he could be scrutinized and criticized. Winston did. Regardless of whether or not that scrutiny was over the top, Winston is still the one who put himself in those positions.
 
And unlike Mariota, he led his team to a championship the year he won his Heisman. So yeah, there's always that.
 
I find it comical that the majority of people are unable to judge Mariota or Winston as prospects without comparing them to each other. That by itself shows flawed reasoning in the evaluation process.

Winston's performances should have absolutely zero effect on the way that you grade Mariota, and vice versa.
 
ObsiWan said:
Suppose Mariota screws the pooch at the combine or just simply decides he doesn't need to participate while Winston participates and shines? Would you still think Mariota goes 1-1?

I ask because I don't think it's a done deal until the combine is over.
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The Combine and Pro Days are nothing but glorified dog & pony shows for the NFL to make that $. I think the only things teams look at during those days are weigh-ins, physicals and interviews. The rest is fluff to them and eye candy to the media/fans

The film will, and should always, be the tell tale for NFL teams.

All that said, I still watch them :)
 
HOU-TEX said:
The Combine and Pro Days are nothing but glorified dog & pony shows for the NFL to make that $. I think the only things teams look at during those days are weigh-ins, physicals and interviews. The rest is fluff to them and eye candy to the media/fans

The film will, and should always, be the tell tale for NFL teams.

All that said, I still watch them :)
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QB pro days are important to scouts. Gives them a chance to stand on the field and get up close and personal. Best way to see and judge ball velocity, spin, how quick ball comes out and all the things you can't see sitting in a press box, tape or TV.
 
on Philadelphia sports radio, there talking about sending 3 first and fletcher cox for mariota. which my buddies rebuttle was "if Chips gonna fail, at least have him fail with his guy"
 
Hookem Horns said:
Foles was really struggling before he got injured. I don't think the Eagles are very content right now with the QB position.
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Ive been saying since Day 1 that Foles is not Chips guy, regardless of performance. But since his "QB type" was not available, Foles became the starter by default.
 
HOU-TEX said:
The Combine and Pro Days are nothing but glorified dog & pony shows for the NFL to make that $. I think the only things teams look at during those days are weigh-ins, physicals and interviews. The rest is fluff to them and eye candy to the media/fans

The film will, and should always, be the tell tale for NFL teams.

All that said, I still watch them :)
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Scouts and GMs have been gleaning information from pro days & the combine since well before it became a made for tv event. I agree that film should be the cornerstone of a players eval, just the investment teams make toward these kids begs every bit of juice that can be squeezed.

Heard the Bucs ex-GM Mark Dominik talk about interviewing qb's. He said they would have the qb coach first interview the kid, asking his opinion of a down & distance scenario, then Dominik would come in the room and ask for a few minutes from the kid. After they were done and returned to the original room the qb coach would immediately ask the kid his opinion from the scenario they left off from to see how quickly he could recall and process his take on it.

Of course, then he'd probably ask something absurd like whether he'd rather make out with a giraffe or a walrus, just to see how he responds. Fargin mind games.
 
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