Mario or Reggie

[Kaiser Toro]

People talk about Mario meeting expectations, does anyone think Bush met expectations in year one? I recall him being the next great RB. He wound up being the second best WR, RB and rookie on his team. He is fun to watch at times.

Mario was the best DE we had last year while playing injured.

 

[Thorn]

I've always thought Bush was way over rated, and still do. He was healthy all year long last year and still was NOT the best rookie for the Saints.

But all this is conjecture. Another three or four years under their belts, and we shall see who was the best pick out of the Big Three from last year.

 

[Grams]

I think in the end Mario was the right pick for us. We couldn't trade down as there we no takers. Bush was good, was not a back that would probably fit in our system, and while he helped the Saints he was not the major reason why they had a great year.
I am not sold on Vince as yet, I remember another QB of the same style that has yet to really make his team better for more than a year.
I think Mario had a pretty good year considering he was double teamed a lot and had a bad foot. Think he will be a lot better this year - especially if we get him some help on the DL or another DE.

 

[The1ApplePie]

I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

I am a huge Reggie fan, and I still think passing on him for a combine warrior was idiotic.

Mario will never be the dynamic pass rusher he was hyped to be (too big and poor technique), but he can be a great run stopper. Not worth a 1st overall, but still good.

Mario was outclassed by Bush and VY easily last year. Hope he can catch up this year.

Wow ... a new perspective .

 

[tbell ncsu]

i'm not going to bother reiterating all the excellent points. instead, i want to say one thing about the contract negotiations pre-draft: wasn't bush demanding $70+ million? mario was a bargain at $54 million.

 

[HJam72]

Bush was good, was not a back that would probably fit in our system

I never wanted Bush (unless it was one of those 2 day back-and-forth swings early last off-season, of course), but I kind of see him as more of a really great slot receiver than a RB, and, with all the dump-off passes Carr constantly threw, I think Bush would've actually fit our system extremely well. Having said that, I don't see how he could be worth a #1 draft pick to a team that should've been looking for a new QB. Were we all to go back in time, Bush would not even be a consideration to me. I have no regrets at all about not having him, but I never wanted Mario with a #1 either. I'm still hoping Mario will prove me wrong, and I know last year is no real indication of what he's capable of. Right now, if we went back in time and I were actually making the decision (I know, dream world), I'd be stewing hard over the question of Leinart or Young. We did, however, get 2 of the best 5 or 10 players in the draft though when we used that 2nd round pick on Demeco, and then we got Spencer, Winston, and Daniels. How can I complain? What I'd like to know now is where is our FS??? I've been screaming "Free safety!!!" for 2 drafts now.

 

[Wolf]

from rumors, if the Texans traded down, they would NOT have gotten mario besides, who would have we traded down too? rumors were N.O. wanted the Jets #4 and #29(ish) and the Jets said NO to that, so you think we would have gotten anything like that?

I realize this was a mock but I remember hearing reports on the tv due to we were supposed to take bush

2. New Orleans Saints -- Reggie Bush, RB. They wanted Mario Williams, but have to settle for the best player in the draft.

http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060423/732263-p.html

The Titans definitely weren't going to trade up, they didn't need too, they could take any "leftover" from the first 2.

 

[The1ApplePie]

Sean Payton said they were going to take AJ Hawk

so:

1. Bush (Jets)
2. Hawk (NO)
3. VY
4. Mario

 

[jlam]

People talk about Mario meeting expectations, does anyone think Bush met expectations in year one? I recall him being the next great RB. He wound up being the second best WR, RB and rookie on his team. He is fun to watch at times.

Mario was the best DE we had last year while playing injured.

Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.

You know, I speak the best Spanish out of anybody in my family, but stick me in the middle of Mexico City by mydamnself and watch me squirm.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous attempt at logic I've ever seen used when talking about this "Reggie vs Mario" drivel, and that's really saying something.

Scott Fujita was the best linebacker on our team last year. Lance Briggs was the second best linebacker on his team in Chicago. So by your logic, Fujita must be a more successful player than Briggs since Briggs can't even be the best at his postion on his own team. Right?

Go back and rewatch any Saints game from Week 9 on and tell me Reggie Bush is a liability. Please. I implore you. But you won't. Because what you would find is a back that averaged just a hair under five yards a carry while splitting time in a pass-happy offense while still being a significant threat in the passing game both out of the backfield, in the slot, and split out wide. What you will do is continue to fall back on lazy generalities that make you feel better about the decision your team made.

I come over here to see how happy you guys must be to get one of the best defensive players in the draft, and I see more of this rhetorical BS spin on last year's draft. You guys never fail to find new ways to amaze me.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Blah, blah, blah...... We drafted Mario. Live with it.

Bush WAS, IS and WILL be over-hyped, and over-rated. He is only lucky that he went to a team with Drew Brees, a 'real' every down RB (McCallister), and the real offensive rookie of the year Marques Colston..

Bush is trying to be the next James Brooks - only James Brooks did it without the hype...

 

[jlam]

Blah, blah, blah...... We drafted Mario. Live with it.

Bush WAS, IS and WILL be over-hyped, and over-rated. He is only lucky that he went to a team with Drew Brees, a 'real' every down RB (McCallister), and the real offensive rookie of the year Marques Colston..

Bush is trying to be the next James Brooks - only James Brooks did it without the hype...

Look guy, my point is not to say that Reggie Bush is the greatest player ever and was not overhyped. Fact of the matter is that he was overhyped. Most big name college players are. In all likelyhood, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and even Calvin Johnson could be seen as overhyped at the end of next season. That's just the way the media works, we have to live with it or stop watching (I think we know which it will be).

But to cop out behing such faulty logic as "Reggie wasn't even the best rookie on his own team" is just downright lazy and ignorant. In the words of a fellow forum member on SR, watch more football.

And Bill, you're not going to get me riled up by complimenting the rest of my team either, haha. I'm not a R. Bush fanboy, I'm a N.O. Saints diehard since I was six years old. I love my team. I'm very open to well-based criticism of the Saints and/or any of its players, but I will defend them when someone is so far out in left field with their assessment that something just has to be said.

On a side note, Bill, Colston was not the real OROY last year, and neither was Bush. That distinction should have gone to Maurice Jones-Drew in my opinion, followed closly by Vince Young, then Colston and Bush.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Look guy, my point is not to say that Reggie Bush is the greatest player ever and was not overhyped. Fact of the matter is that he was overhyped. Most big name college players are. In all likelyhood, JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, and even Calvin Johnson could be seen as overhyped at the end of next season. That's just the way the media works, we have to live with it or stop watching (I think we know which it will be).

But to cop out behing such faulty logic as "Reggie wasn't even the best rookie on his own team" is just downright lazy and ignorant. In the words of a fellow forum member on SR, watch more football.

And Bill, you're not going to get me riled up by complimenting the rest of my team either, haha. I'm not a R. Bush fanboy, I'm a N.O. Saints diehard since I was six years old. I love my team. I'm very open to well-based criticism of the Saints and/or any of its players, but I will defend them when someone is so far out in left field with their assessment that something just has to be said.

On a side note, Bill, Colston was not the real OROY last year, and neither was Bush. That distinction should have gone to Maurice Jones-Drew in my opinion, followed closly by Vince Young, then Colston and Bush.

On the OROY, you would also have to give serious consideration to Joseph Adai and Laurence Maroney...

As far as the Saints, I would sum it up this way: They would have had a very productive offense with or without Reggie Bush. With that being said, they should consider themselves very lucky to have the addition of a gimmick back...

 

[Wolf]

I think if Colston didn't get injured he would have been OROY

Drew brees did wonders for that offense

 

[mike moffat]

I thought that it was the right choice. We needed, and, still need, help on defense. Mario is going to become a key player for us.
Reggie is undoubtably a very good player. But, not what we needed.

 

[jlam]

On the OROY, you would also have to give serious consideration to Joseph Adai and Laurence Maroney...

Consideration most definitely, but in my opinion (which of course means absolutely nothing) Addai and Maroney were still behind the four afforementioned players. Maroney further behind than Addai. They'll both be very good players, though, no doubt. Especially since both will be seeing much more of the ball this year since the Colts lost Rhodes and the Pats lost Dillon (but they still have Faulk, who is underrated).

As far as the Saints, I would sum it up this way: They would have had a very productive offense with or without Reggie Bush. With that being said, they should consider themselves very lucky to have the addition of a gimmick back...

The first statement, I somewhat agree with. Where I think you are off is that you seem to think that Reggie is just an add-on gimmick to an offense that would have led the league anyway instead of an integral part of what we do as a philosophy. With an offense that is as wide-open as ours is, the different looks Reggie gives is invaluable. The whole "decoy" thing notwithstanding, he does have to be accounted for, which makes the rest of our players look better than they would without him. The better he gets running the ball (which was readily apparent from watching games last year), the more effective he will be at this. When someone suggests that Bush was not a huge part of why we were successful offensively, I just have to chuckle.

Call it what you will, we'll see how it plays out.

 

[jlam]

I think if Colston didn't get injured he would have been OROY

Drew brees did wonders for that offense

Tough to say. Injuries happen, and Young did a great job for a team that looked pitiful before he took over. But if Colston had continued to produce at the level he was before the injury, then I agree with you. It's tough to assume that he would have, though. You have to go with what happened, and not the what-ifs.

And it's amazing what having a smart, effective leader who makes quick decisions in the pocket can do for an offense, huh? I hope that Schaub can have a similar effect for the Texans.

 

[Wolf]

Tough to say. Injuries happen, and Young did a great job for a team that looked pitiful before he took over. But if Colston had continued to produce at the level he was before the injury, then I agree with you. It's tough to assume that he would have, though. You have to go with what happened, and not the what-ifs.

And it's amazing what having a smart, effective leader who makes quick decisions in the pocket can do for an offense, huh? I hope that Schaub can have a similar effect for the Texans.

true as we saw the destructive power of Jeff Blake with NO and Oak

 

[nunusguy]

Reggie Bush is a liability except when you splice a highlight reel together. Much like Mario he was the second best rookie on his team. At least Mario was the best player at his position whereas Bush was not.

Bush was not only not the best the runner on his team or not the best pass receiver or not the best rookie on his team, he was not even a starter on his own team. And with the draft this year by the Saints of OSU back Antonio Pittman, I think he may be dropped to 3rd string on the DC by the time the season starts, unless he officialy becomes a WR.
On the other hand, I dunno if I'm ready to say DeMeco was the only Texan who had a better rookie year than Mario ?

 

[jlam]

Bush was not only not the best the runner on his team or not the best pass receiver or not the best rookie on his team, he was not even a starter on his own team. And with the draft this year by the Saints of OSU back Antonio Pittman, I think he may be dropped to 3rd string on the DC by the time the season starts, unless he officialy becomes a WR.
On the other hand, I dunno if I'm ready to say DeMeco was the only Texan who had a better rookie year than Mario ?

Way to go. Semantics and technicalities are always good fallbacks when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

How many games did Fred Taylor play the first down for Jax instead of MJD? Rhodes instead of Addai? Dillon ahead of Maroney? Like playing the first down of a game really has any bearing on how a player performed for and contributed to his team.

Third string? Seriously? Pittman will do nicely as Aaron Stecker's replacement, but don't be ridiculous.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Way to go. Semantics and technicalities are always good fallbacks when you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

How many games did Fred Taylor play the first down for Jax instead of MJD? Rhodes instead of Addai? Dillon ahead of Maroney? Like playing the first down of a game really has any bearing on how a player performed for and contributed to his team.

Third string? Seriously? Pittman will do nicely as Aaron Stecker's replacement, but don't be ridiculous.

Not sure where you are going with all of that Jlam, but I can offer this:

Patriots:
Laurence Maroney 175 attempts - 745 yards - 4.3 average
Corey Dillon 199 attempts - 812 yards - 4.1 average

Jags:
Maurice Jones-Drew 166 attempts - 941 yards - 5.7 average
Fred Taylor 231 attempts - 1146 yards - 5.0 average

Colts:
Joseph Adai 226 attempts - 1081 yards - 4.8 average
Dominic Rhodes 187 attempts - 641 yards - 3.4 average

Saints:
Reggie Bush 155 attempts - 565 yards - 3.6 average
Deuce McCallister 244 attempts - 1057 yards - 4.3 average

What I find really compelling is that 2 of those 4 teams are from one division, and 3 of the 4 are from the AFC...

In 3 of the 4 cases above, the "starter" had more carries than the "back-up", (the exception being Joshep Adai). Given those numbers, I definitely go back to one of earlier arguments about Adai being the OROY... He essentially carried the load for the Super Bowl Champ - Colts.

*refrains from comment about Antonio Pittman*

 

[jlam]

Not sure where you are going with all of that Jlam, but I can offer this:

Patriots:
Laurence Maroney 175 attempts - 745 yards - 4.3 average
Corey Dillon 199 attempts - 812 yards - 4.1 average

Jags:
Maurice Jones-Drew 166 attempts - 941 yards - 5.7 average
Fred Taylor 231 attempts - 1146 yards - 5.0 average

Colts:
Joseph Adai 226 attempts - 1081 yards - 4.8 average
Dominic Rhodes 187 attempts - 641 yards - 3.4 average

Saints:
Reggie Bush 155 attempts - 565 yards - 3.6 average
Deuce McCallister 244 attempts - 1057 yards - 4.3 average

What I find really compelling is that 2 of those 4 teams are from one division, and 3 of the 4 are from the AFC...

In 3 of the 4 cases above, the "starter" had more carries than the "back-up", (the exception being Joshep Adai). Given those numbers, I definitely go back to one of earlier arguments about Adai being the OROY... He essentially carried the load for the Super Bowl Champ - Colts.

*refrains from comment about Antonio Pittman*

I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.

You brought up statistics and actual football related information that can be discussed. I have no problem with that. On that note, I've stated before in this forum (well, the old official board, which would explain why you haven't seen it, Bill) that I will be the first to tell you Reggie had some major adjustments to make running the ball, especially at the beginning of last year. The difference between me and most throwing numbers out there is that I watched every single down of football the Saints played this year and know the context in which all of said stats occurred. Like I said previously, as the season wore on, he got more patient waiting on his blockers to open holes and took less negative plays. Another thing that happened last year with our O was that, at the beginning of the season, out O-line wasn't very good at run blocking. Our line had four out of five new starters and the one holdover (Jammal Brown) had to move from right tackle to left tackle in only his second season. As the season progressed, we began to see what Bush is capable of more often, as he averaged over 5 yards a carry in December and over 4.5 the last three games of November.

As for Pittman, I would be thrilled if he performs well and is able to step in as a second RB in a few years when Deuce starts to decline (he's going on his seventh year already, and has had injury problems). If Deuce keeps on rolling, then I think he'll be great trade fodder for a team that needs a RB, ala Turner for San Diego. Until then, he's insurance.

But don't refrain, Bill. Feel free to tell me your opinion. Just be ready for me to tell you you're wrong.

 

[HJam72]

Well, I'm convinced. I want Reggie Bush....and I think we're fully prepared to give you Samkon Gado for him.

 

[jlam]

Well, I'm convinced. I want Reggie Bush....and I think we're fully prepared to give you Samkon Gado for him.

If it weren't for the cap hit, I'd jump all over it.

 

[Texan_Bill]

I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.

You brought up statistics and actual football related information that can be discussed. I have no problem with that. On that note, I've stated before in this forum (well, the old official board, which would explain why you haven't seen it, Bill) that I will be the first to tell you Reggie had some major adjustments to make running the ball, especially at the beginning of last year. The difference between me and most throwing numbers out there is that I watched every single down of football the Saints played this year and know the context in which all of said stats occurred. Like I said previously, as the season wore on, he got more patient waiting on his blockers to open holes and took less negative plays. Another thing that happened last year with our O was that, at the beginning of the season, out O-line wasn't very good at run blocking. Our line had four out of five new starters and the one holdover (Jammal Brown) had to move from right tackle to left tackle in only his second season. As the season progressed, we began to see what Bush is capable of more often, as he averaged over 5 yards a carry in December and over 4.5 the last three games of November.

As for Pittman, I would be thrilled if he performs well and is able to step in as a second RB in a few years when Deuce starts to decline (he's going on his seventh year already, and has had injury problems). If Deuce keeps on rolling, then I think he'll be great trade fodder for a team that needs a RB, ala Turner for San Diego. Until then, he's insurance.

But don't refrain, Bill. Feel free to tell me your opinion. Just be ready for me to tell you you're wrong.

First, I was a member of the old official board too.

I agree with your point with respect to a "starter" not necessarily being better than someone that comes off the bench.

I also agree that the Saints need to have someone in reserve for McCallister as he starts to decline. I just dont know whether or not I like that pick (Pittman) for your Saints and have no opinion, thats why I refrained from commenting.

But really this thread was titled "Mario or Reggie". We have somehow gotten off that, but to bring it back to topic, I would say that I am okay with the Texans taking Mario over Reggie. Reggie works well with everything that the Saints do, but does not necessarily mean he would have been a good fit with the Texans. I can understand why you are hoping that Pittman can step in and be a second back, which also leads me to beleive that you don't think Reggie Bush can be the every down back.

 

[jlam]

First, I was a member of the old official board too.

I agree with your point with respect to a "starter" not necessarily being better than someone that comes off the bench.

I also agree that the Saints need to have someone in reserve for McCallister as he starts to decline. I just dont know whether or not I like that pick (Pittman) for your Saints and have no opinion, thats why I refrained from commenting.

But really this thread was titled "Mario or Reggie". We have somehow gotten off that, but to bring it back to topic, I would say that I am okay with the Texans taking Mario over Reggie. Reggie works well with everything that the Saints do, but does not necessarily mean he would have been a good fit with the Texans. I can understand why you are hoping that Pittman can step in and be a second back, which also leads me to beleive that you don't think Reggie Bush can be the every down back.

Agreed on all accounts. I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment of Mario over Reggie, but's it's also not my place to come and tell you that it was definitively wrong. The thread got off topic when some took it upon themselves, as usual, to fabricate falsehoods about Bush for the simple purpose of tearing a player down so make the other look less bad, and that takes away from the debate at hand.

Also, it's not that I don't think Reggie can be an everydown back, it's that I don't want him to be. If we were to use only him as the primary back, then some things would have to change. Reggie isn't big enough in the lower body to take on a Larry Johnson load, no doubt. I think he needs to get stronger in the legs regardless, but I don't want it at the expense of some of his explosiveness. Without a back like Deuce, our offense becomes a little less versatile and more predictable, which in my opinion was the biggest thing we had going for us.

I think the NFL is going the way of the two-back system anyway. It lessens the load on the players and provides more change of pace ability and versatility for playcallers as well as lengthens the career span of a position that takes a ridiculous beating. My main motivation for hoping Pittman pans out is so that we don't skip a beat when/if Deuce runs out of gas in the next few years.

 

[Wolf]

thing is that the Texans HAD to go ugly at times and when you get the guys that aren't the playmakers...it always causes a rift in the media...I remember people complaining about the Oilers with Munchak,Mathews, Steinkuhler.... because the Oilers didn't go pretty..well the Oilers didn't win a Super Bowl but they sure did win alot of games behind that line.


going Ugly=no excitement...and media complains
going pretty with no uglies=poor development on the "pretty boys"

 

[Texan_Bill]

thing is that the Texans HAD to go ugly at times and when you get the guys that aren't the playmakers...it always causes a rift in the media...I remember people complaining about the Oilers with Munchak,Mathews, Steinkuhler.... because the Oilers didn't go pretty..well the Oilers didn't win a Super Bowl but they sure did win alot of games behind that line.


going Ugly=no excitement...and media complains
going pretty with no uglies=poor development on the "pretty boys"

I like the example of the Oilers, and their draft choices with the big uglies. The best part was after Steinkuhler, Munchak and Mathews draft choices, the Oilers did not stop there. They may not have placed as high an emphasis on drafting those guys in the first round, but they still drafted them. Don Maggs, Brad Hopkins and Jon Runyan (who is still playing), etc., etc.....

If Ugly means wins, I will marry the ugliest girl in town.....

 

[SaintsFan]

I won't sit here and argue with you guys about this anymore. I have read all the post and come to the conclusion that you just don't want to see what's really going on.

Bush is, was and will be the real deal. He made the Saints offense work, with or without the numbers. (The numbers are there, it just took him half a season to get adjusted to the NFL, I'm OK with that.)

What does it all come down to? Wins. The Saints are winning with Reggie Bush and yes he DOES matter to the team. He's not just a gimmick.

I hope that you can stop dissing Bush long enough to see that.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

I won't sit here and argue with you guys about this anymore. I have read all the post and come to the conclusion that you just don't want to see what's really going on.

Bush is, was and will be the real deal. He made the Saints offense work, with or without the numbers. (The numbers are there, it just took him half a season to get adjusted to the NFL, I'm OK with that.)

What does it all come down to? Wins. The Saints are winning with Reggie Bush and yes he DOES matter to the team. He's not just a gimmick.

I hope that you can stop dissing Bush long enough to see that.

Reggie really did help the Saints offense, and help them win. It was an all around team effort and they coincided greatly....your offense did, they all complimented each other.

Not that this is what your saying by any means but I hate the arguement...look at the records. Saints got to the NFC championship and the texans only got 6 wins....therefore Reggie Bush should have been the pick.

The main thing, and I'll admit I was one of the culprits at first, was saying he was a decoy, a decoy and thats it. However as I have gone back and watched more tape on players and teams from last year this wasn't just the case.

Yes reggie had a lot of catches out of the backfield. However, you have to look at why...and when it's because Breese went through his progressions and receivers 1 and 2 were covered, THATs when he dumped it off to reggie...so reggie helped extend the drive because of that instead of a 3rd and long it was a 3rd and short or a 1st down.

I love Mario williams and am glad we selected him. I want us to get a dominant Defense like the Bears and Ravens...work on our o-line and then get more playmakers with our 1st and 2nd rd picks. I love having demeco, williams, okoye, and dunta...and hopefully bennett at cb works good.

I just don't want people to be blindsided by the hatred towards the texans and having to put down reggie bush for everything to make ourselves better. This isn't everyone here, but I'm willing to admit that this is how i was feeling at first...i'm passed that though and just hope both succeed and go to pro bowls. It's not like the saints are in or division or even our conference. we play them once maybe every 5 years so it's going to be forgotten about once mario makes his first probowl....prediction: 2008 season!

 

[SaintsFan]

Thanks for the post OMT.

And just for the record I don't hate the Texans. Quite the opposite. I want to see expansion teams do well, it helps the league when they do! I too hope that the Texans build a good defense, that's a cornerstone to most championship teams. It's the one thing that I hope the Saints can improve on. We had the #11 defense in the league last year, and most people miss that, but we need to get BETTER!

Thanks again, and good luck next year (except when we play you!)

 

[thunderkyss]

I was only pointing out how silly it is to use the arguement that because a player doesn't "start" a game, he isn't better than some other player. We can discuss and argue football and I'll tell you what I think, but to fall back on semantics to prove a phantom point is just grasping at straws.

It's silly to argue, because it just doesn't happen. This team is about winning, and you put your best players on the field on first down, period.

Now, I'm not Reggie hating, but I believe what happened with Reggie, was exactly what I thought was going to happen. When you've got Joe Horn, Dante Stallworth(sp) & Duece McAllister, Reggie is going to take away from their production. It wasn't until Horn & Colston were hurt that Reggie started to produce for the Saints. But when those guys were in the game, Reggie is a third, sometimes fourth option. Those guys are pretty good at what they do, so it's rare that Brees needs his third option.

Of course his running got better as the year went on, just like you said, and he's only going to get better. But a two back system just makes you more predictable. Nobody wants to run a two back system.

Having a capable back-up is not the same as running a two back system, that's just having a capable back-up.

 

[jlam]

It's silly to argue, because it just doesn't happen. This team is about winning, and you put your best players on the field on first down, period.

Now, I'm not Reggie hating, but I believe what happened with Reggie, was exactly what I thought was going to happen. When you've got Joe Horn, Dante Stallworth(sp) & Duece McAllister, Reggie is going to take away from their production. It wasn't until Horn & Colston were hurt that Reggie started to produce for the Saints. But when those guys were in the game, Reggie is a third, sometimes fourth option. Those guys are pretty good at what they do, so it's rare that Brees needs his third option.

I actually didn't see it that way at all. Brees used his second, third, fourth and even fifth options often and freely last season. It's the basic thing that made our offense so good, the unpredictability. However that doesn't produce that much when those secondary and tertiary options aren't capable of producing. That's where a lot of Reggie's value, especially in the early season, was. His presence made Brees a lot more willing to not force it to the first option and to go ahead and check down with the confidence that he would not only catch it, but likely make something really good happen. But don't let that fool you into thinking we didn't design a boatload of plays specifically for him as the first option, either.

Of course his running got better as the year went on, just like you said, and he's only going to get better. But a two back system just makes you more predictable. Nobody wants to run a two back system.

Having a capable back-up is not the same as running a two back system, that's just having a capable back-up.

Well, at least you admitted the first part, that shows you've at least watched him play. Almost feels like a moral victory in and of itself.

I disagree about a two-back system making you more predictable, especially when the two backs being used are versatile, and close to the same talent level. I think I know where you're going with this, and that's to say that if you have two backs, one of whom is good at one thing, and the other is good at the other thing, then you know about what the other team will do based on who is in the game. In it's simplest form, I would agree, but it's not necessarily an either/or thing with us. A lot of our offense is with both on the field at the same time, and I think it helps open up our offense tremendously. We can't do nearly as many things on offense with just Deuce in the lineup as we can with both Deuce and Bush. I also stand by my original claim that I think having two backs share the load (of course that load will be distributed differently from team to team) is what a lot of teams want. It keeps both fresh, reduces the risk of injury, gives you more options, and prolongs careers rather than having to start all over after a couple of years (ala Terrell Davis, Jamal Lewis, Eddie George, Cory Dillon, damn nearly Deuce McAllister). These player can only take a few years of intense pounding before they go way downhill or get injured. Tomlinson's don't come along very often, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Larry Johnson's production take a nosedive in a year or two.

On a broader note, I'm not even somewhat attemting to give Reggie Bush more credit than he deserves for the success of the team last year. It was undoubtedly a team effort (spearheaded IMO by Brees and Payton), but I do think that without Bush, we aren't nearly as dangerous a team offensively. For that matter, I think the exact same way about Deuce. I think that for a lot of people here to change their minds, it would take Reggie completely taking over the RB spot and putting up huge rushing stats, which I wouldn't mind (and think he's capable of) but ideally not what I want. I'm greedy. I want to keep Deuce and Bush because that's one of the main things I think makes us impossible to deal with on offense.

Gotta go back to work. Peace.

 

[Hookem Horns]

Reggie was a no brainer but people don't want to accept it. If we would have chose reggie, than all these people who are saying that Mario was the right choice would then be saying that Reggie was the right choice. Most people just don't want to accept that the Texans made a mistake.

I am still having a hard time accepting the Texans made a mistake.

 

[El Tejano]

Mario is starting and one of the premiere DE in the league. Reggie is sitting bench behind Pierre Thomas and Mike Bell.

 

[El Tejano]

For a brief second, I thought about what would everyone think if Reggie and Vince ended up coming to our team through trade or free agency. Oh the irony.

 

[Hookem Horns]

For a brief second, I thought about what would everyone think if Reggie and Vince ended up coming to our team through trade or free agency. Oh the irony.

We would have 2 roster spots wasted on bench warmers.

 

[RazorOye]

"Of all the [threads] in all the [forums] in all the world, you had to [resurrect this one]"

 

[MojoMan]

In the Saints 48-27 blowout win of the Giants today, Reggie Bush stat line was as follows

Rushing - 6 carries for 17 yards
Receiving - 1 catch for 7 yards
Total Yards - 24

http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=291018018

 

[infantrycak]

"Of all the [threads] in all the [forums] in all the world, you had to [resurrect this one]"

We were laughed at, chided, berated, etc. over not picking the next Gayle Sayers. Yeah, it is going to come back some when the guy we were supposed to pick hasn't hit 600 yds rushing in a year and the 2nd choice is sitting on the bench.

 

[kastofsna]

Mario or Reggie looks like a bad debate right now, but what about Miami 3 offseasons ago. Culpepper or Brees.

sigh.

 

[LonerATO]

I think these post have jumped the shark