Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

[le14]

Regarding the cap figure for Mario if he is franchised, since I have heard alot of numbers thrown out, in my post in the Can the Texans afford both Mario and Arian;

Franchising MW would NOT drop his cap number but would in fact push it to $23m.

Its the greater value of the following -

The average of the top five salaries at the position of the player in question.

Or

100%+20% of the previous years salary.

In this case the greater value would be 100%+20% of the previous years salary as it is considerably more than the top five OLB's average salary.

I think teams will attempt to avoid this in the future by not backloading the final year.




I dont think they can afford that much when they have Foster , Dreesen , Myers and Briesel to deal with not to mention any outside FA's thye may want to bring in.

They have to get his cap number down in the 10m range for the coming year at most.

I thought that rule was for the older CBA and now it's going to a more formulated plan. The new way of formulating the franchise tag is based on other factors and a formula to account for it.

"In the past, a franchise tag was derived from averaging the top five salaries at a particular position from the previous season. The new formula is much more complicated and is formed by determining the franchise tags at that position over the last five years as a percentage of the overall cap figure in each of those five years."

Overall, I would picture that making tags a bit cheaper than we initially projected.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...-values-will-be-down-across-the-board-in-2012

any answers regarding the salary and how this year's franchise tags will work out? I was under the assumption that it would be less than what we figured from the past CBA.

 

[srrono]

Life without Mario if this comes to be Texans must replace that depth we had at OLB with Mario. I think Braman & Nading are ok but if Reed or Barwin get hurt I am not comfortable Braman & Nading starting. Does that mean Texans draft needs change with loss of Mario or is this a position they look to fill with a FA? It would be a back up OLB not a starter so maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick.

What do you guys think about Rob Ninkovich LB NE seems to be a hustle player going to be a FA would not think he would be expensive. NE never keeps thier FAs. I know NE def was not good this year but Ninkovich is always in the play.

 

[badboy]

Always can depend on y'all to provide a platform for directional conversations in the offseason. Much appreciated.

Thanks, KT & will pass on to the other two your compliments. This is the most exciting draft for me in Texans history and hope to get feed back for everyone.

 

[Brandon420tx]

An easy way to solve this problem and knock out two birds with one stone is to look at all the players whose contracts expire after next season and sign the ones we want to keep to extensions in offseason. The last season in a contract is usually the biggest and we have alot of big name players in the final year of their contracts after this offseason, extending them will relieve alot of cap stress

 

[thunderkyss]

Lastly, yes, Barwin and Reed did a great job this year. Luckily they stayed healthy all year. I wouldnt anticipate both of them making it through 2012 without injury. People get can caught up in starters. "We have our 2 outside linebackers. Next!" To that I say its a good thing that the Texans pay attention to our depth and drafted Reed.

Exactly. Take Mario off this team & an outside pass rusher shoots to the top of our needs list. Barwin & Reed are great football players, but neither is elite.

Most people outside Houston believe Mario to be elite.

 

[Goldensilence]

I try not to call folks names on here, but some on here bang on the same subject with half truths & flat out lies sometimes that it just gets annoying to read.

It's not even close to the Schaub and Rosenfels debate.

Matt was having injury problems, Rosenfels stepped in and performed... medicore but after having Carr even mediocre play was a vast improvement. Truth was Sage was a turnover machine.

I don't see anyone on the board outright calling for Reed to start over Mario. The main point is he had a productive rookie campaign and there's the possibility to build on it.

If you still see the comparison, I can't help you either.

I'm not denying the guy has been productive despite not having a whole lot of help. I don't think anyone would. Like I said we've seen flashes of a guy who can take over games with 2-3 sack performances and really get after QBs, problem is he follows those kind of games up where he doesn't really seem to show up. I'm not denying the guy has a motor it's just not a nonstop high motor like you see in some other guys on the team like Watt, Smith, or Barwin. That's what made this defense so successful this year finally.

You're right on 1 of the reasons he was chose over Bush and VY was the money he'd sign for. The others were simply more outright like whether we liked it or not Carr was onboard for at least another year. Which made VY unlikely. Now, if the rookie scale was like it is now with a #1 pick it would've been more possible to take VY and play Carr for a year. Next, was the scouting reports on Bush were that he wasn't an every down back, it's only been this last year in Miami where he managed to prove it wrong, years later.

Nothing wrong with taking into consideration the cap hit signing Mario is going to take. We've got a few key players this year that are going to need to be resigned or who we would like to. Mario is in that class. Next, years crop is going to be even more difficult considering the FO is going to have to make a call on Matt Schaub.

No, you're right on him not being the kind of player Haynesworth was when he was most productive with the Titans. But, I'm just curious, seeing as how productive he's been what kind of contract do YOU think he'll be able to command? Do you think he's worth Suggs type money? Peppers?

Like I said he has been a game changer in some games. Others not so much, unfortunately with his injury this year we really weren't able to see what he's going to be able to do in this system. If he had a Ware type season. No question, pay him.

Far as FA and the draft goes this last year proved to be something different in both far as getting effective players in both. I think the big thing this FO has had to deal with in FA is Kubiak has HIS guys on the offensive side of the ball, so barring something REALLY screaming at him he's slow to move on that side of the ball.

In the past on defense it wasn't that we didn't try, but honestly coming to play for Richard Smith or Frank Bush wasn't something a top tier FA would've likely looked at and say "Hey, his defense has shown me something. I think I can fit in well here and be successful." Difference is this last year Wade has a track record of building very good defenses. You can look at his early success in SD and Dallas.

If Mario does walk I think with Wade this defense is attractive to other FA's and based on who we drafted last year and how they produced I think we'd be fine. This past year the defense played top 5 without him and was an injury away from Braman and Nading starting. Difference is the FO has an entire offseason to figure it out and considering there's an actual scheme in place it becomes less difficult who to target.

 

[CharloTex]

Question (and maybe this has been addressed already, but I don't have time to read through 51 pages):

If we lose Mario to free agency in 2012, wouldn't we likely get a 3rd round compensatory pick for the 2013 draft, all other free agency plus/minus being equal?

 

[Goldensilence]

To top this off I don't see how some people on this board get all huffy, puffy, and out right pissed about MB "Capologists" or "GMs".

You're right most of us aren't in professional scouting, management, or have an official affiliation with the Texans. If they are they rightfully have been silent.

I would say most of what gets posted is speculation and opinion. If you want straight confirmed facts look to the Texans website and read what the FO is willing to release publicly.

Does everyone really need to post in their sig line what I post is an opinion and you're entitled to yours?

 

[thunderkyss]

To top this off I don't see how some people on this board get all huffy, puffy, and out right pissed about MB "Capologists" or "GMs".


Does everyone really need to post in their sig line what I post is an opinion and you're entitled to yours?

Some people are expressing their opinion as fact. That's the problem. We won't be able to sign Mario & Arian.... how does anyone know?

Signing Mario will handicap us for years? Again... this is not fact. At least we know that we have options & we need to see if the Texans even truly want to sign Mario, & if they are willing to franchise him.

 

[cbs1507]

If you actually believe Mario Williams is going to sign for anything less than the other top DE/Rushbackers then you are living in a dream world.

This is the kind of contract he's going to get, and he may even get more considering he isn't a one dimensional player:

Peppers Six years $84 mil $42 mil guaranteed
Ware Seven years $79 mil $40 mil guaranteed
Freeney Six years $72 mil $31.5 guaranteed
Allen six years $73.26 mil $31 guaranteed
Suggs six years $62.5 mil $38.1 guaranteed
Johnson six years $76 mil $32 guaranteed

No I don't. But he would would have to actually earn the money that is not guaranteed. Also here is a breakdown of average salary.

Peppers - $14 million per year
Ware - $11.3 million per year
Freeney - $12 million per year
Allen - $12.21 million per year
Suggs - $10.42 million per year
Johnson - $12.67 million per year

His cap hit was $18 million this year. I don't see why we couldn't manipulate the cap to get a deal done and still sign key players. There are too many factors that people are ignoring. We have 12 FAs (including Williams) which means their salaries come off the cap. You also have to factor in the salaries of people we have under contract. There will be some restructuring, some cap casualties, and a bunch of negotiations. Mario Williams is our top priority in the offseason. I want some rep for this point.

 

[Wolf]

No I don't. But he would would have to actually earn the money that is not guaranteed. Also here is a breakdown of average salary.

Peppers - $14 million per year
Ware - $11.3 million per year
Freeney - $12 million per year
Allen - $12.21 million per year
Suggs - $10.42 million per year
Johnson - $12.67 million per year

His cap hit was $18 million this year. I don't see why we couldn't manipulate the cap to get a deal done and still sign key players. There are too many factors that people are ignoring. We have 12 FAs (including Williams) which means their salaries come off the cap. You also have to factor in the salaries of people we have under contract. There will be some restructuring, some cap casualties, and a bunch of negotiations. However Arian Foster is our top priority in the offseason.

fixed it for ya

I am not saying I don't want Mario come back, I really do.. I am hoping there is a hometown/coming off an injury discount with him signing back with us. However a lot of people looking to get paid within the next two years.

 

[thunderkyss]

fixed it for ya

I am not saying I don't want Mario come back, I really do.. I am hoping there is a hometown/coming off an injury discount with him signing back with us. However a lot of people looking to get paid within the next two years.

2012 is the biggest "issue" we have facing us now. 2013, we expect the cap to grow quite a bit. Nothing against Arian, but he's signed, he'll be here next year. We've got until the 2012 to "pay" Arian. Mario needs to be done before FA starts.

 

[cbs1507]

fixed it for ya

I am not saying I don't want Mario come back, I really do.. I am hoping there is a hometown/coming off an injury discount with him signing back with us. However a lot of people looking to get paid within the next two years.

lol Nice try but no. Mario Williams is our top priority because Foster is a RESTRICTED FA. Maybe some people should go look up the rules for RESTRICTED FA, but essentially it will be easier for us to resign Foster than Williams because Williams is UNRESTRICTED. I don't think anyone doubt Foster will be back next year. If Foster was our #1 priority he would have a deal already. #1 priority is to get a deal done with Williams before March 13, so we can know what kind of cap we'll have to work with for everybody else.

 

[steelbtexan]

lol Nice try but no. Mario Williams is our top priority because Foster is a RESTRICTED FA. Maybe some people should go look up the rules for RESTRICTED FA, but essentially it will be easier for us to resign Foster than Williams because Williams is UNRESTRICTED. I don't think anyone doubt Foster will be back next year. Our #1 goal is to get a long term deal done with Williams before March 13.

I'm not saying let MW walk.

But if re-signing MW means

1. Losing Myers, the OL leader/continuity
2. Losing Foster, even if the Texans lose him in 2013
3. Not being able to upgrade the WR2/WR3 positions

Then it's time to show MW the door and look at drafting some depth.

 

[Wolf]

that is the gamble the Texans might take.. if someone comes out and offers Chris Johnson Money to Foster.. will the Texans match it? or just take the first round pick ?

I know first round picks are "tough" to give up for a team, but Foster is easily a 1st round pick, he is still young and have a lot of tread left on the tires, so to speak. hell, don't think teams around the league noticed his play in the playoffs. and that is when the money talks

could the Texans afford to absorb that kind of contract now along with trying to re-sign this years players among the other decisions that are coming next year)

time will tell. I think it would best suit the Texans to get Foster locked up now.

Foster means the world to this offense right now much more than Mario does to the defense.. not saying I wouldn't like to have Mario back but.. we will see how contracts go

 

[cbs1507]

I'm not saying let MW walk.

But if re-signing MW means

1. Losing Myers, the OL leader/continuity
2. Losing Foster, even if the Texans lose him in 2013
3. Not being able to upgrade the WR2/WR3 positions

Then it's time to show MW the door and look at drafting some depth.

Well I agree. But you are making a large assumption to say that signing Williams will endanger our chances of bringing our key FAs back. We have 12 FAs (including Williams). That means 12 salaries coming off the cap. The top pass rushers (OLB/DE) average salary is around $11-$14 million over the life of the contract. Mario had a cap hit of $18 million last year ($18 million of cap space freed up). There are plenty of options available that can allow us to sign Williams and still get Foster and Meyers We will likely look for a WR in the draft because it's cheaper. There are so many factors people are overlooking. Just let the FO handle it.

 

[mussop]

This is simple. Without Mario on the team we still had one of the 2 best defenses in the entire NFL. Unless he comes at a very reasonable price that will allow us to retain both our starting OL and our franchise RB then we are better off continuing without him. Hopefully with some compensation. Like I said simple.

Some of you have just fallen in love with all his press clippings and it's clouding your judgement. He is a unique and great athlete for his size and that seems to have made people like him even more. He is a nice guy and I hope his agent doesn't price him out of our range. But no matter how you spin it it comes down to his worth to the team compared to the worth of the players we will loose and the players we will not be able to add via FA if we resign him.

Again, simple! For the right price he stays. The decision is really Mario's. Does he like it here enough to turn down LOTS more money elsewhere? That is the real question.

 

[cbs1507]

that is the gamble the Texans might take.. if someone comes out and offers Chris Johnson Money to Foster.. will the Texans match it? or just take the first round pick ?

I know first round picks are "tough" to give up for a team, but Foster is easily a 1st round pick, he is still young and have a lot of tread left on the tires, so to speak. hell, don't think teams around the league noticed his play in the playoffs. and that is when the money talks

could the Texans afford to absorb that kind of contract now along with trying to re-sign this years players among the other decisions that are coming next year)

time will tell. I think it would best suit the Texans to get Foster locked up now.

Foster means the world to this offense right now much more than Mario does to the defense.. not saying I wouldn't like to have Mario back but.. we will see how contracts go

You're wrong though. If we should have sign Foster first, then he would have been given a deal in the offseason. The reason he does not have one is because they will try to sign`Williams first. Pass rushers command higher salaries than RBs. Point blank. They knew this. They were not going to throw a hefty contract at Foster before coming to terms with Williams. They want to bring Williams back. He is going to cost more than Foster, regardless of what you think or feel.

BTW no team is going to give up a 1st round draft pick to give Foster a "Chris Johnson" contract. Foster will be back with the Texans. Mario Williams is just our #1 priority.

 

[Goldensilence]

Some people are expressing their opinion as fact. That's the problem. We won't be able to sign Mario & Arian.... how does anyone know?

Signing Mario will handicap us for years? Again... this is not fact. At least we know that we have options & we need to see if the Texans even truly want to sign Mario, & if they are willing to franchise him.

I guess I take it for granted its an opinion, unless they have a verifiable source when asked to present one.

Then again I try to use phrases like " I don't think..." or "I'm not sure if this is a good idea..." something along those lines.

 

[mussop]

lol Nice try but no. Mario Williams is our top priority because Foster is a RESTRICTED FA. Maybe some people should go look up the rules for RESTRICTED FA, but essentially it will be easier for us to resign Foster than Williams because Williams is UNRESTRICTED. I don't think anyone doubt Foster will be back next year. If Foster was our #1 priority he would have a deal already. #1 priority is to get a deal done with Williams before March 13, so we can know what kind of cap we'll have to work with for everybody else.

So what if someone offers foster a huge front loaded contract that if we match will kill all our cap space? if we turn it away all we get for him is a first round pick. Do you think this team would be better of with Mario and an extra first round pick minus foster or with foster minus Mario? We already know what kind of a defense we have without Mario, top 2! Now, how good would our offense of been without Foster? LOL at that.

 

[cbs1507]

So what if someone offers foster a huge front loaded contract that if we match will kill all our cap space? if we turn it away all we get for him is a first round pick. Do you think this team would be better of with Mario and an extra first round pick minus foster or with foster minus Mario? We already know what kind of a defense we have without Mario, top 2! Now, how good would our offense of been without Foster? LOL at that.

That a big what if. You're making an assumption that we cannot match the frontloaded contract. You have to be realistic. Go look at what teams actually need a RB. Does Foster even want to play for them? Also, does that team actually want to give Foster a frontloaded contract and lose a 1st round draft pick? Because he is a RESTRICTED FA. You seem to be confusing PRIORITY with what will actually go down. UNRESTRICTED FAs always have priority over RESTRICTED FAs, believe it or not. I am saying we will try to get a deal done with Williams FIRST. If we can come to terms then we can get a deal done with Foster. If not we will get a deal done with Foster. This PRIORITY does not mean we sign Williams, it just means it is our PRIORITY to sign him first.

 

[mussop]

BTW no team is going to give up a 1st round draft pick to give Foster a "Chris Johnson" contract. Foster will be back with the Texans. Mario Williams is just our #1 priority.

Foster= arguably the RB in the entire league. You don't think there are teams out there that would give up a first round pick for him?

Mario Williams = coming off a missed year because of injury and was replaced and the team not only did not miss a beat, it got better to the tune of becoming the best defense in the NFL.

You need to to rethink your stance here. In general you would be right. A RB isn't as valuable as pass rusher. The problem is that there are other factors you are not considering.

 

[mussop]

That a big what if. You're making an assumption that we cannot match the frontloaded contract. You have to be realistic. Go look at what teams actually need a RB. Does Foster even want to play for them? Also, does that team actually want to give Foster a frontloaded contract and lose a 1st round draft pick? Because he is a RESTRICTED FA. You seem to be confusing PRIORITY with what will actually go down. UNRESTRICTED FAs always have priority over RESTRICTED FAs, believe it or not. I am saying we will try to get a deal done with Williams FIRST. If we can come to terms then we can get a deal done with Foster. If not we will get a deal done with Foster. This PRIORITY does not mean we sign Williams, it just means it is our PRIORITY to sign him first.

You dont think front offices have to consider what if scenerios? Especially ones that have a real chance of happening. And you are ignoring the fact that it's already been proven that we are a dominanyy defense without Mario.

 

[Wolf]

You're wrong though. If we should have sign Foster first, then he would have been given a deal in the offseason. The reason he does not have one is because they will try to sign`Williams first. Pass rushers command higher salaries than RBs. Point blank. They knew this. They were not going to throw a hefty contract at Foster before coming to terms with Williams. They want to bring Williams back. He is going to cost more than Foster, regardless of what you think or feel.

BTW no team is going to give up a 1st round draft pick to give Foster a "Chris Johnson" contract. Foster will be back with the Texans. Mario Williams is just our #1 priority.

I personally think they didn't sign foster because they wanted to see if he could duplicate what he did the year before.

the guy is 25 years old has been in the league for 3 years, played in 35 games averaging 4.7 yards a rush (3097 yards) and has 1314 yards receiving

not worth a first rounder?

*edit* AJ is pretty knowledgeable so this is what i am going by

So according to the new CBA, the qualifying offer (max tender) for Arian Foster will be a one-year deal around $2.8 million. The Texans have to make that offer to Foster before the free agency period begins in early March if they haven't already agreed on a long term deal - which I expect they will ... at some point ... just maybe not by early March.

So by rule, another team can make a run at Foster with a long term deal, but the Texans have the right to match any offers (RoFR). If the Texans decided not to match another team's offer, it would cost the other team a first rounder (no longer a first and third) to get Foster plus whatever long term deal they work out.

Foster's leverage with the Texans is to not agree to a long term deal before free agency begins and entertain offers from other teams to see if anyone is crazy enough to throw a deal his way approaching what Chris Johnson signed last fall.

http://www.examiner.com/houston-tex...-free-agency-tenders-have-changed-new-nfl-cba

 

[cbs1507]

Foster= arguably the RB in the entire league. You don't think there are teams out there that would give up a first round pick for him?

Mario Williams = coming off a missed year because of injury and was replaced and the team not only did not miss a beat, it got better to the tune of becoming the best defense in the NFL.

You need to to rethink your stance here. In general you would be right. A RB isn't as valuable as pass rusher. The problem is that there are other factors you are not considering.

Sure if you think they are willing to outbid the Texans (because offering a contract does not mean they can him he is RESTRICTED) and then lose that 1st round pick.

Yeah sure the defense looked good down the stretch, but you can only imagine how much better it could have been with Williams (BTW it was #2 but I'll take it ).

Can you please tell me what factors I am overlooking? Because this is not enough evidence. In fact our sacks per game were higher with Mario in the lineup. We got pressure down the stretch but weren't consistent down the stretch bringing the QB down (Baltimore 1st time, Jacksonville 1st time, Atlanta, Cincy 1st time, Carolina, Indy). Eventually we could not get off the field when Matt Schaub went out. Need I say more? We got pressure but not many sacks. Mario is first priority whether you agree with me or not (for the reasons I provided). Your case is not strong enough because UNRESTRICTED FA will be our priority (it does not mean we will not sign Foster). We just want to get a deal done before March 13.

 

[cbs1507]

I personally think they didn't sign foster because they wanted to see if he could duplicate what he did the year before.

the guy is 25 years old has been in the league for 3 years, played in 35 games averaging 4.7 yards a rush (3097 yards) and has 1314 yards receiving

not worth a first rounder?

*edit* AJ is pretty knowledgeable so this is what i am going by

http://www.examiner.com/houston-tex...-free-agency-tenders-have-changed-new-nfl-cba

Dude I know how restricted FA works. This is my point...

So by rule, another team can make a run at Foster with a long term deal, but the Texans have the right to match any offers (RoFR). If the Texans decided not to match another team's offer, it would cost the other team a first rounder (no longer a first and third) to get Foster plus whatever long term deal they work out.

That's a BIG what if. That team must be pretty bad if they are willing to throw BIG MONEY at him AND lose a 1st round pick. That's DESPERATE. Do you think Foster wants to go to a desperate team? Again he is a FA, it's HIS choice. I am just telling you the line of thinking from management standpoint. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant because you are a fan. This is the reason we will try to sign Mario 1st, so we can know how much we can offer. Point blank.

 

[Wolf]

You're wrong though. If we should have sign Foster first, then he would have been given a deal in the offseason. The reason he does not have one is because they will try to sign`Williams first. Pass rushers command higher salaries than RBs. Point blank. They knew this. They were not going to throw a hefty contract at Foster before coming to terms with Williams. They want to bring Williams back. He is going to cost more than Foster, regardless of what you think or feel.

BTW no team is going to give up a 1st round draft pick to give Foster a "Chris Johnson" contract. Foster will be back with the Texans. Mario Williams is just our #1 priority.

I could also swing this around back to you

If the Texans thought they should sign Mario first he would have signed an extension last year and not wait until this year where they could lose him for nothing(*edit*unless they franchise him). However I know that there were issues with switching to the 3-4 and how Mario would do with going to OLB. A lot of uncertainty there and unfortunately not much game day film on Mario in the 3-4 (throughout the season and how some of the teams would adjust to him on the defense) Question is now, Did Wade see enough of Mario to convince Bob to keep him here in Houston or does the Wade think Reed will late a leap in his 2nd year?

I want Mario to stay, but if he can't I hope the Texans can do a sign and trade to get compensation. He is one of my favorite players but I know there are tough situations coming. However,the Texans have more of a luxury with a very good defense anyway than what the Panther had when they let Peppers go.

 

[cbs1507]

I could also swing this around back to you

If the Texans thought they should sign Mario first he would have signed an extension last year and not wait until this year where they could lose him for nothing.. However I know that there were issues with switching to the 3-4 and how Mario would do with going to OLB. A lot of uncertainty there and unfortunately not much game day film on Mario in the 3-4 (throughout the season and how some of the teams would adjust to him on the defense) Question is now, Did Wade see enough of Mario to convince Bob to keep him here in Houston or does the Wade think Reed will late a leap in his 2nd year?

I want Mario to stay, but if he can't I hope the Texans can do a sign and trade to get compensation. He is one of my favorite players but I know there are tough situations coming. However,the Texans have more of a luxury with a very good defense anyway than what the Panther had when they let Peppers go.

If you want to, but you're forgetting we just switched schemes from 4-3 and 3-4. We had to see if it could work and Mario showed promise in Wade's scheme. Otherwise we would have tried to get a deal done in the offseason. If you think it would have been a good idea to negotiate a contract DURING season, so be it. Anyway, I believe we had contract talks with Foster last offseason, but we could not come to terms with any figures.

Charles Johnson? 6 years 76 million? I don't see a situation like that here in Houston. Foster does not command 76 million, nor does any RB.

 

[Wolf]

I did mention wade coming in and uncertainty


Chris Johnson. 6 year 56 million .. Is the running back

Charles Johnson is the DE with the 76 million

 

[thunderkyss]

If you want to, but you're forgetting we just switched schemes from 4-3 and 3-4. We had to see if it could work and Mario showed promise in Wade's scheme.

It still would have been better to sign him to a deal last offseason. Then we'd already have 1 year of his prorated bonus already out of the way. Making him more tradeable than he is now. Franchise then trade just isn't going to happen.

However, since Mario didn't get a signing bonus, it was probably important to him & his agent that Mario got paid what was owed on his rookie contract.

 

[cbs1507]

I did mention wade coming in and uncertainty


Chris Johnson. 6 year 56 million .. Is the running back

Charles Johnson is the DE with the 76 million

I know that. Apparently you did not realize that Julius Peppers AND Charles Johnson the DE both played for Carolina. No wonder they could not keep Peppers, so they chose the 25 year old instead.

 

[Wolf]

You threw me off when you said foster doesn't command 76 million and no rb does

 

[cbs1507]

It still would have been better to sign him to a deal last offseason. Then we'd already have 1 year of his prorated bonus already out of the way. Making him more tradeable than he is now. Franchise then trade just isn't going to happen.

However, since Mario didn't get a signing bonus, it was probably important to him & his agent that Mario got paid what was owed on his rookie contract.

I get you wished we signed Foster to a deal last offseason. But we were not going to give him BIG MONEY for 1 great season. They told him if you do it again we'll take care of you. So we will take care of him, but we will try to sign Williams first. They can do all kinds of things with the cap. Just let them do they thing.

 

[cbs1507]

You threw me off when you said foster doesn't command 76 million and no rb does

My fault I should have been clear. I was addressing your comment about us having a "luxury" the Panthers did not have. They had 2 explosive pass rushers. We don't.

 

[Wolf]

My fault I should have been clear. I was addressing your comment about us having a "luxury" the Panthers did not have. They had 2 elite pass rushers. We don't.

I should have been clear I was talking luxury as in having the #2 defense without Mario ,for a while

 

[cbs1507]

I should have been clear I was talking luxury as in having the #2 defense without Mario ,for a while

Yeah but we played some of the league worst offenses this year (Cle, Jax 2 times, TB, Indy 2 times and lost once). Next year we have to go against teams with explosive offenses like NE, GB and Det. I would feel better with Williams getting after the QBs next (I'm sure you would to).

BTW check your PMs. I think I sent you something a few days ago (Didn't realize it was you).

 

[cbs1507]

You dont think front offices have to consider what if scenerios? Especially ones that have a real chance of happening. And you are ignoring the fact that it's already been proven that we are a dominanyy defense without Mario.

Dominant against who? We were good down the stretch for sure. But how many of the teams we dominated had good offense or QBs? That would be a good mindset ONLY if we are not able to sign Williams. We will not be thinking how "good" our defense is without him until it has to become a realty.

 

[Blake]

Casserly on this morning with Vandy and Lopez. Says Mario is the Texans top priority and that on the surface the Texans look hard up against the cap, but will be able to move things around and get a long term deal done with Mario.

Mario is here to stay folks.

 

[badboy]

Well I agree. But you are making a large assumption to say that signing Williams will endanger our chances of bringing our key FAs back. We have 12 FAs (including Williams). That means 12 salaries coming off the cap. The top pass rushers (OLB/DE) average salary is around $11-$14 million over the life of the contract. Mario had a cap hit of $18 million last year ($18 million of cap space freed up). There are plenty of options available that can allow us to sign Williams and still get Foster and Meyers We will likely look for a WR in the draft because it's cheaper. There are so many factors people are overlooking. Just let the FO handle it.[/QUOTE]YOU let the FO handle it as many of us enjoy discussing and debating these issues. Part of being a fan.

Also not sure I understand you point of 12 FA's salaries coming off cap? If we want to re-sign many of them then their salaries will actually be on the cap next season (some maybe less but most significantly more). I do agree with what I think your main point is; Mario can be re-signed and our major FA contributors also.

 

[gafftop]

Dominant against who? We were good down the stretch for sure. But how many of the teams we dominated had good offense or QBs? That would be a good mindset ONLY if we are not able to sign Williams. We will not be thinking how "good" our defense is without him until it has to become a realty.

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Wasn't it a reality when he was on IR. How many dominant offenses did we play this year? How many dominant offenses are there out there now, GB, NE, NO ... just wondering.

Casserly on this morning with Vandy and Lopez. Says Mario is the Texans top priority and that on the surface the Texans look hard up against the cap, but will be able to move things around and get a long term deal done with Mario.

Mario is here to stay folks.

Casserly I've heard that name before. Man if Casserly thinks Mario is top priority then damn we better sign him because Casserly knows his ****.

Where was Mario this year anyway. Oh yeah he was hurt. Y'all hang your hat on how Mario has only missed x amount of games before these last two years. I seem to remember hurt toe, plantar f, hip, shoulder,... etc. I have posted before that the Texans made up injuries to cover for him when he disappeared. I know they didn't but it sure seemed something was always wrong with him that kept him from playing 100%.

 

[badboy]

So what if someone offers foster a huge front loaded contract that if we match will kill all our cap space? if we turn it away all we get for him is a first round pick. Do you think this team would be better of with Mario and an extra first round pick minus foster or with foster minus Mario? We already know what kind of a defense we have without Mario, top 2! Now, how good would our offense of been without Foster? LOL at that.

Not exactly a fair eval because we don't know how Tate will do after a full year in system nor Mario after a full off season nor who we would get in the first round for Foster.

 

[badboy]

I thnk with all the talk in regards to Foster & Williams it would be informative if someone would research and give us teams that could not only use these two FAs but who would possibly make offers. For teams interested in Foster give the team's pecking order so we will know if a first is given where it falls in first round. Thanks in advance

 

[cbs1507]

YOU let the FO handle it as many of us enjoy discussing and debating these issues. Part of being a fan.

Also not sure I understand you point of 12 FA's salaries coming off cap? If we want to re-sign many of them then their salaries will actually be on the cap next season (some maybe less but most significantly more). I do agree with what I think your main point is; Mario can be re-signed and our major FA contributors also.

Yes that is my main point. I understand what you mean about the 12 salaries returning to the cap. But as I pointed out earlier that there will be some restructuring of contracts and some cap casualties but management can manipulate the cap to make it happen. It just depends on whether the players accept it or not.

 

[Dutchrudder]

I thnk with all the talk in regards to Foster & Williams it would be informative if someone would research and give us teams that could not only use these two FAs but who would possibly make offers. For teams interested in Foster give the team's pecking order so we will know if a first is given where it falls in first round. Thanks in advance

Short list of teams that would like to get Mario:

Cleveland Browns, 4-3 defense that needs another DE to pair with Jabaal Sheard. They have lots of capspace to sign him to a new deal. They have picks 4 and 22 in the 1st of this draft. Could possibly give up 22 alone for Mario or #4 and a 3rd for Mario and our 1st at 26. Lots of possibilities for the Texans at #4, Blackmon or Claiborne could be there. Could sell RG3 to the Redskins for their 1st and 2nd. Then pick a guy like Decastro at 6 and a WR at 39.

Cincinnati Bengals, 4-3 defense that could use a great DE. They have picks 17 and 21. If the Texans did a tag and trade for Mario I would expect us to send Mario and our 1st for both of their picks in the 1st. I think that would be rather fair. Maybe they could toss in a 4th or something too.

Carolina Panthers, 4-3 defense with a young team looking to improve upon one of the worst defenses in the league this year. Put him on the other side of Charles Johnson and they have a good pass rush. Panthers pick at 9, which is kinda pricey for Mario alone. It may have to be their 1st and 2nd, for Mario and our 2nd.

Miami Dolphins, switching to a 4-3 defense, they will need to change some personnel for the switch. Mario would be an ideal building block to help Cameron Wake with the pass rush. They pick at 8, so I would think something like the Panthers trade I suggested would work.

Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 team that needs two DEs. They don't have a lot of pass rush, but Mario could turn that around in an easy division like the NFC West. They pick at 12, which may work as an outright trade for Mario, but I think they want a QB like Tannehill. I would expect them to give up their 2011 1st, 2nd and 2012 2nd for Mario and our 1st with hopes of Tannehill falling to 26.

 

[srrono]

Short list of teams that would like to get Mario:

Cleveland Browns, 4-3 defense that needs another DE to pair with Jabaal Sheard. They have lots of capspace to sign him to a new deal. They have picks 4 and 22 in the 1st of this draft. Could possibly give up 22 alone for Mario or #4 and a 3rd for Mario and our 1st at 26. Lots of possibilities for the Texans at #4, Blackmon or Claiborne could be there. Could sell RG3 to the Redskins for their 1st and 2nd. Then pick a guy like Decastro at 6 and a WR at 39.

Cincinnati Bengals, 4-3 defense that could use a great DE. They have picks 17 and 21. If the Texans did a tag and trade for Mario I would expect us to send Mario and our 1st for both of their picks in the 1st. I think that would be rather fair. Maybe they could toss in a 4th or something too.

Carolina Panthers, 4-3 defense with a young team looking to improve upon one of the worst defenses in the league this year. Put him on the other side of Charles Johnson and they have a good pass rush. Panthers pick at 9, which is kinda pricey for Mario alone. It may have to be their 1st and 2nd, for Mario and our 2nd.

Miami Dolphins, switching to a 4-3 defense, they will need to change some personnel for the switch. Mario would be an ideal building block to help Cameron Wake with the pass rush. They pick at 8, so I would think something like the Panthers trade I suggested would work.

Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 team that needs two DEs. They don't have a lot of pass rush, but Mario could turn that around in an easy division like the NFC West. They pick at 12, which may work as an outright trade for Mario, but I think they want a QB like Tannehill. I would expect them to give up their 2011 1st, 2nd and 2012 2nd for Mario and our 1st with hopes of Tannehill falling to 26.

CIN I could see making a run at Mario because they are a playoff team the others are in more of a building mold so why put so much money in a player that might give them 1 more win in the standings.

 

[Mr teX]

You're wrong though. If we should have sign Foster first, then he would have been given a deal in the offseason. The reason he does not have one is because they will try to sign`Williams first. Pass rushers command higher salaries than RBs. Point blank. They knew this. They were not going to throw a hefty contract at Foster before coming to terms with Williams. They want to bring Williams back. He is going to cost more than Foster, regardless of what you think or feel.

BTW no team is going to give up a 1st round draft pick to give Foster a "Chris Johnson" contract. Foster will be back with the Texans. Mario Williams is just our #1 priority.

rep your way & this is what people don't understand. As good as Foster is, he's still a rb & teams don't like giving out monster contracts to rbs b/c their shelf life is short. The other thing working against Foster is the fact that teams are reluctant to give up 1st rounders.........period. They're just too valuable...The only position teams even seriously consider giving them up for are qb for obvious reasons.

People are acting like its Foster's not going to get anything this year & that's far from the truth. Even with him not signing a long term deal this offseason, he'll still be getting a substantial raise from what he's making now b/c the texans will have to tender him something competitive to keep him here.

 

[Mr teX]

Short list of teams that would like to get Mario:

Cleveland Browns, 4-3 defense that needs another DE to pair with Jabaal Sheard. They have lots of capspace to sign him to a new deal. They have picks 4 and 22 in the 1st of this draft. Could possibly give up 22 alone for Mario or #4 and a 3rd for Mario and our 1st at 26. Lots of possibilities for the Texans at #4, Blackmon or Claiborne could be there. Could sell RG3 to the Redskins for their 1st and 2nd. Then pick a guy like Decastro at 6 and a WR at 39.

Cincinnati Bengals, 4-3 defense that could use a great DE. They have picks 17 and 21. If the Texans did a tag and trade for Mario I would expect us to send Mario and our 1st for both of their picks in the 1st. I think that would be rather fair. Maybe they could toss in a 4th or something too.

Carolina Panthers, 4-3 defense with a young team looking to improve upon one of the worst defenses in the league this year. Put him on the other side of Charles Johnson and they have a good pass rush. Panthers pick at 9, which is kinda pricey for Mario alone. It may have to be their 1st and 2nd, for Mario and our 2nd.

Miami Dolphins, switching to a 4-3 defense, they will need to change some personnel for the switch. Mario would be an ideal building block to help Cameron Wake with the pass rush. They pick at 8, so I would think something like the Panthers trade I suggested would work.

Seattle Seahawks, 4-3 team that needs two DEs. They don't have a lot of pass rush, but Mario could turn that around in an easy division like the NFC West. They pick at 12, which may work as an outright trade for Mario, but I think they want a QB like Tannehill. I would expect them to give up their 2011 1st, 2nd and 2012 2nd for Mario and our 1st with hopes of Tannehill falling to 26.

You can X carolina off the list....that'll be too much money tied up into 1 position with Williams & Johnson & they've got other more pressing needs elsewhere.

 

[cbs1507]

1)Not sure I understand what you are saying. Wasn't it a reality when he was on IR. How many dominant offenses did we play this year? How many dominant offenses are there out there now, GB, NE, NO ... just wondering.



Casserly I've heard that name before. Man if Casserly thinks Mario is top priority then damn we better sign him because Casserly knows his ****.

Where was Mario this year anyway. Oh yeah he was hurt. 2)Y'all hang your hat on how Mario has only missed x amount of games before these last two years. I seem to remember hurt toe, plantar f, hip, shoulder,... etc. I have posted before that the Texans made up injuries to cover for him when he disappeared. I know they didn't but it sure seemed something was always wrong with him that kept him from playing 100%.

1) It is true that there are not as many dominate offenses in the league. We just so happen to have NE and GB on our schedule next year. I have no doubt we can make the playoffs without Mario next season. But unless you're happy to just be there (see Baltimore last 4 seasons), we have a much better shot at a championship with Mario on our team.

2) Everybody plays nicked up in the NFL (i.e. Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans). I could make the argument that Mario Williams led the team in sacks 4 out of 5 times from 2006-2010 while playing through those injuries. In that time span he accounted for 48 of 144 sacks (33%). That's pretty valuable to me.

 

[Mr teX]

Not sure I understand what you are saying. Wasn't it a reality when he was on IR. How many dominant offenses did we play this year? How many dominant offenses are there out there now, GB, NE, NO ... just wondering.



Casserly I've heard that name before. Man if Casserly thinks Mario is top priority then damn we better sign him because Casserly knows his ****.

Where was Mario this year anyway. Oh yeah he was hurt. Y'all hang your hat on how Mario has only missed x amount of games before these last two years. I seem to remember hurt toe, plantar f, hip, shoulder,... etc. I have posted before that the Texans made up injuries to cover for him when he disappeared. I know they didn't but it sure seemed something was always wrong with him that kept him from playing 100%.

Yet he still went out there week after week more often than not & was the Texans' most effective pass rusher so what does that tell you?

AJ played most of 2010 with a hurt ankle & this year had hammy issues.

Schaub was bruised up everywhere in 2010 & missed most of 2011 with his ankle...

Demeco missed most 2010 last year with his achilles..

Daniels....Lol, do i even have to list his injuries the last 3 years?

Playing in 16 physical games in the season...all of these guys get nicked up...why penalize mario for it?

 

[Dutchrudder]

You can X carolina off the list....that'll be too much money tied up into 1 position with Williams & Johnson & they've got other more pressing needs elsewhere.

Why not? The Panthers had a top 10 offense and a bottom 10 defense this year. They are a young team and a guy like Mario is a building block to that defense. They were 25th in the league in sacks last year and need some better pass rush. Sure they could use help in the secondary, but this trade wouldn't preclude them from addressing that. They just gave crazy money out last year to guys like Deangelo Williams, Charles Johnson, Jon Beason and Ryan Kalil. I think they will be willing to shell out for Mario.