Mario Is A Bust!

[Chaft]

Bushs did not lead the Saints in rushing yesterday.

I forgot about Deuce. If not for Deuce's lost fumble, I think I would have remembered him actually making a contribution.

I was checking out the stats of the Saints game throughout. After Deuce fumbled, the Saints' coach stopped going to Deuce for a bit. It was on Reggie.

1-10-NO27 (6:46) R.Bush left tackle to NO 32 for 5 yards (D.Jackson, A.McKinley).
2-5-NO32 (6:14) D.Brees pass short right to R.Bush ran ob at NO 38 for 6 yards.
1-10-NO38 (5:48) R.Bush left guard to NO 44 for 6 yards (B.Russell).
2-4-NO44 (5:06) D.Brees pass incomplete short right to J.Horn (L.Bodden).
3-4-NO44 (5:00) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to D.Henderson to CLV 40 for 16 yards (B.Russell).
1-10-CLE40 (4:19) D.Brees pass incomplete deep left to M.Colston (G.Baxter). hand of to 26, who lateraled back to 9
2-10-CLE40 (4:12) R.Bush right guard to CLV 34 for 6 yards (A.McKinley).
3-4-CLE34 (3:34) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to R.Bush to CLV 20 for 14 yards (B.Russell).
1-10-CLE20 (2:59) D.McAllister left tackle to CLV 13 for 7 yards (G.Baxter, Andra.Davis).
2-3-CLE13 (2:40) D.McAllister right tackle to CLV 12 for 1 yard (W.McGinest, E.Kelley). CLV-N.Eason was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
3-2-CLE12 (2:06) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

 

[real]

What makes him a better athlete? Because he played 2 sports at UNC? Combine numbers?

How do you measure athleticism?

Doesn't take an hour to change directions....

 

[thunderkyss]

Yes, the Browns aren't very good, but the Saints were playing on the road in a traditionally pretty loud, hostile stadium. Look at Reggie Bush's stats for the Saints game. He led the Saints in rushing of course, but he led the Saints in receiving yards and receptions. He didn't break anything for long yardage, but there is no doubt that Reggie Bush was a factor in every single drive they had that ended in a score. I think the Saints lose without Reggie Bush.

Jimmy Johnson said on Foxsports.com

"Now, Howie, you'll like this story. When I first got into the league, I mistakenly was trying to trade anybody to get some picks. I talked to Al Davis about trading him Michael Irvin. Al told me I didn't want to do that. He said some players score touchdowns, and some others will help you win games no matter how good they are at a particular position. But certain individuals are the difference between winning and losing games because they can put the ball in the end zone. That always stuck with me. Now, I look at Reggie Bush and maybe he is only going to touch the ball 15 times a game, but that one touchdown or two touchdowns that he either sets up or scores is going to be the difference between the Saints winning or losing a game. Now, Mario Williams may end up being a great player, maybe, I don't know. But he's not going to score any touchdowns and he's not going to be the difference between winning and losing a game."


I agree with Jimmy.

We shut the Eagles out in the first QTR.... If we'd have stopped the opening drive of the second half, we may have been able to win the game.

that may very well have been the difference....

We play Clevland, week 17, let's see how our guys do against that team....

Philadelphia plays New Orleans in Week 6, let's see how Reggie does against that team.

 

[real]

From the way that Mario played I won't be surprised if he ends the year with 50 tackles and 0 sacks...

 

[Mr. White]

Doesn't take an hour to change directions....

Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?

There's one hell of a steep learning curve for a 21 year old kid playing against a veteran OL. The game at NFL speed is a little quicker than the ACC. I'd venture to say that all rookie DE's start slow.

Calling somebody a bust at this stage is ridiculous.

Quick! Somebody go start a "Fire Kubiak" thread!

 

[real]

We shut the Eagles out in the first QTR.... If we'd have stopped the opening drive of the second half, we may have been able to win the game.

that may very well have been the difference....

We play Clevland, week 17, let's see how our guys do against that team....

Philadelphia plays New Orleans in Week 6, let's see how Reggie does against that team.

Still won't be a fair judgement...

 

[jdog]

I'm sorry if my posts come off as angry but I am very frustrated. This team hardly looked better than last season and I expected quite a bit of improvement. VERY DISSAPOINTING! The worst part of it all was a solid performance from Bush when our #1 pick did squat. Please keep in mind that I supported the pick initially because I thought the coaches knew what they were doing. I am very concerned about Mario and everyone else in this city should be too.

I guess we can draft Peterson next year.

Rookie runnging backs always do better, and Bush is a great running back. Bush does not fit our need. I know the running game sucked, but we can work with what we have in this system there. We sucked on defense and that is why we needed to draft a defensive player. Mario is going to take some time to develop as opposed to Bush. It might be frustrating, but I think you have to be more patient on this issue.

 

[real]

Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?
There's one hell of a steep learning curve for a 21 year old kid playing against a veteran OL. The game at NFL speed is a little quicker than the ACC. I'd venture to say that all rookie DE's start slow.

IMO, the odds for drastic improvement are against him...There are things to learn at DE....just like there are things to learn at other positios...But his pass rushing is suffering...he didn't only struggle with play recognition, and assignments...He struggled doing what he is supposed to already know how to do....He didn't only struggle with the mental perspective...he also struggled physically...That'd be like Reggie Bush struggling to make people miss, or Leinart struggling with touch on his passes, or Vernon Davis Struggling to get seperation on a LB, or A.J Hawk getting ran over a lot....This is what these guys got brought in to do...Guys picked at the top of the draft are expected to struggle with the mental differences of college and pro.....Mario struggles all the way around...Honestly I am worried about Him....I've seen flashes from pretty much every first round pick and some second rounders...I know Mario has a lot to learn, but he has basically shown nothing besides superior measurables....It is a long season and I really hope Mario can at least show signs of being worthy of the number 1 pick...:brickwall

I never called him a bust...And I explained the physical vs. mental aspects of the game above....Mario didn't look like a talented rookie...He looked like a terrible rookie....I haven't seen Mario do anything...I have only heard stories and premenitions...

 

[real]

I am not going to start ranting about how we should have picked Bush..i won't even discuss how much more he could have helped us than Mario...Bush is not a factor because whats done is done and he isn't a Texan...time to move on...BUT I will critique the he!! outta Mario...

 

[powerfuldragon]

Honestly, who wasn't expecting this thread?

 

[thunderkyss]

Still won't be a fair judgement...

It'll be a little more fair than judging Reggie's 150 total yards(can you imagine, a 2nd overall pick on a punt return?? $50 million to return punts......) against an perenially week team, to Mario's 2 tackles against a perenial NFC Championship game participant.

 

[real]

Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?

No I didn't break down film...have you wasted hours in your life breaking down JP's first pro game ?

 

[Mr. White]

No I didn't break down film...have you wasted hours in your life breaking down JP's first pro game ?

I said Peppers had 1 tackle in his first game.

You called him a better athlete. I'm just trying to find out what you base it on.

You said it didn't take him an hour to change directions. I'm asking what you base that on.

 

[Vinny]

Hey V, as I recall you were originally pretty high on "Super Mario" ?
Your sarcasm indicates you may be having second thoughts on that about now ?
I still don't have a problem with leaving Bush on the Board, but I am even more confused than ever after Mario's regular season debut why we didn't trade the pick ? Atleaset if we had multiple picks, we wouldn't suffer the
constant ridicule of passing on Bush for another "single" player.

No, I wasn't ever really high on him since I didn't watch him play. I just said I could buy into the logic of the pick and trust the Texans braintrust till I got to see him play...yesterday was a disapointment, and we go on to week 2 now. Go look at my last post at houstonprofootball.com. I started a thread saying that I'm ok with the draft...not because I thought it was a great pick, but because I'm a fan of the team and will wait to see him play before judging him. Ric wanted to strawman me and spin my words so I stopped posting at HPF after that, so just seek my last thread I made shortly after the draft...I haven't posted since then and won't go back. So far he looks like a workout warrior to me.

 

[real]

It'll be a little more fair than judging Reggie's 150 total yards(can you imagine, a 2nd overall pick on a punt return?? $50 million to return punts......) against an perenially week team, to Mario's 2 tackles against a perenial NFC Championship game participant.

not $50 million to return punts...$50 million to put the ball in the endzone anyway possible....I have never once said or even thought that Mario would be a better pro than RB...I think RB will have a much bigger impact than what Mario can ever think about having with us...But I have always thought that Mario was the better fit for OUR team...I honestly don't know how you can compare Mario vs Reggie because Mario will loose 99 times out of 99....

 

[texan279]

not $50 million to return punts...$50 million to put the ball in the endzone anyway possible....I have never once said or even thought that Mario would be a better pro than RB...I think RB will have a much bigger impact than what Mario can ever think about having with us...But I have always thought that Mario was the better fit for OUR team...I honestly don't know how you can compare Mario vs Reggie because Mario will loose 99 times out of 99....

If I remember correct Bush had 0 TD's yesterday, and I love how ESPN lumps his total yards as one big number.

 

[Vinny]

Bush did not lead the Saints in rushing yesterday.

Who cares? Stats don't win games, big plays do.

 

[thunderkyss]

I never called him a bust...And I explained the physical vs. mental aspects of the game above....Mario didn't look like a talented rookie...He looked like a terrible rookie....I haven't seen Mario do anything...I have only heard stories and premenitions...

Physically you're right, we should see him overpowering Tightends at least..... and we are not.

But mentally, with the way we are moving him around on everydown, having him play the strong side all the time..... then moving to DT at least once every three plays..... You don't think that's asking a lot from a rookie?? He has no time to learn the guy in front of him...... no time to set up a rhythm...... no time to get into the other guys head..... and no time to recognize any weaknesses, or set the guy up for an outside move and run inside.......

Unimpressive....... I can agree with that, to a point. But it's kinda crazy to expect him to have done much more than what he has. & while we didn't sack McNabb often, I think we did get good pressure on him. He didn't sit back all day. He left the pocket several times, and made some good plays on the run.

But he is Donavan.....

 

[texan279]

Who cares? Stats don't win games, big plays do.

I don't care, just correcting what he said.

 

[Bsacamano]

IMO, the odds for drastic improvement are against him...There are things to learn at DE....just like there are things to learn at other positios...But his pass rushing is suffering...he didn't only struggle with play recognition, and assignments...He struggled doing what he is supposed to already know how to do....He didn't only struggle with the mental perspective...he also struggled physically...That'd be like Reggie Bush struggling to make people miss, or Leinart struggling with touch on his passes, or Vernon Davis Struggling to get seperation on a LB, or A.J Hawk getting ran over a lot....This is what these guys got brought in to do...Guys picked at the top of the draft are expected to struggle with the mental differences of college and pro.....Mario struggles all the way around...Honestly I am worried about Him....I've seen flashes from pretty much every first round pick and some second rounders...I know Mario has a lot to learn, but he has basically shown nothing besides superior measurables....It is a long season and I really hope Mario can at least show signs of being worthy of the number 1 pick...:brickwall

I completely agree

 

[real]

I said Peppers had 1 tackle in his first game.

You called him a better athlete. I'm just trying to find out what you base it on.

You said it didn't take him an hour to change directions. I'm asking what you base that on.

Im basing it on Mario getting out ran, out manuevered, out hustled...plain old out played on every single snap...

I base it on the fact that JP starred in two sports...not just any two sports...probably the two sports that take the most athleticism to play pound for pound...

I base it on the fact the Mario looks like frankenstein coming off the ball...

Mario does not have the quickess needed to adjust and make plays coming towards him...

 

[real]

If I remember correct Bush had 0 TD's yesterday, and I love how ESPN lumps his total yards as one big number.

He didn't have any touchdowns but he played a key part in their WIN...not to mention over a hundred in all purpose yards...Please don't start me on stats vs impact because Mario loses either way...You didn't coreect what I said you just added irrelevant information...I said he was paid to put the ball in the endzone...correct that.....And I have always said that bush is neither a wr nor rb...he is an offensive weapon so it only servers right that they lump his stats...Thats like if he has 800 rushing and 600 recieving this year...you gonna discard the threat he brings on returning punts and kickoffs and catching passes just because he is listed as "Running Back" on the depth chart...get...outta...town...

 

[texan279]

He didn't have any touchdowns but he played a key part in their WIN...not to mention over a hundred in all purpose yards...Please don't start me on stats vs impact because Mario loses either way...

I'm not trying to start anything, you said he was paid $50 mil to score TD's, I just pointed how he didn't score any yesterday. And just because a running back and defensive end were drafted #1 and #2 doesn't mean you can compare them anyway.

 

[Vinny]

I'm not trying to start anything, you said he was paid $50 mil to score TD's, I just pointed how he didn't score any yesterday. And just because a running back and defensive end were drafted #1 and #2 doesn't mean you can compare them anyway.

You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

 

[texan279]

You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

I was just going off of what he said. And sure Bush can do that and Mario cannot which is one of the reasons I do not understand why some want to try and compare Mario to Bush.

 

[Mr. White]

Im basing it on Mario getting out ran, out manuevered, out hustled...plain old out played on every single snap...

I base it on the fact that JP starred in two sports...not just any two sports...probably the two sports that take the most athleticism to play pound for pound...

I base it on the fact the Mario looks like frankenstein coming off the ball...

Mario does not have the quickess needed to adjust and make plays coming towards him...

Cool. While I don't necessarily agree, I see where you're coming from.

I think any problems he's got are between his ears right now. He's a 21 year old kid with a lot to learn. I think that he'll get better as the season goes on.

 

[real]

Cool. While I don't necessarily agree, I see where you're coming from.

I think any problems he's got are between his ears right now. He's a 21 year old kid with a lot to learn. I think that he'll get better as the season goes on.

I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...

 

[Bsacamano]

I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...

I agree with this 100%

 

[Nawzer]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: If the Texans don't win and win quick that 2-14 season is going to look like a fond memory. It's not so much so about Mario. The interior lineman failed to provide any kind of push and our whole d-line sucked. Mario won't turn into Superman overnight and it'll take some time. But at some point he's got to show something tangible, something the fans can take a hold of. Until then the Texans must start winning otherwise......

 

[Chaft]

$54 million contract. Incredible.

I know Bob McNair is very rich, and he can survive these kinds of financial hits. However, the NFL is a capped league. That's around $9 million a year for 6 years. $26.5 million is GUARANTEED over the 1st 2 years. Whoa man. Come on. I know DE have longer lifespans than RBs and take longer to get acclimated to the NFL. With that kind of money being spent, I would rather have an instant playmaker who helps the team now.

Let's say Reggie got that contract and burnt out after 6 years, that's money well spent. If and when Mario Williams does become a good DE, what year of that contract will it be. Will it be the 5th season? 6th season? You know negotiations for the next contract are usually based off the prior season. Is that money well-spent?

 

[El Tejano]

Babin had 6 tackles in his first NFL game, including 2 open field stops on LaDanian Tomlinson, one for a loss. Mario stunk it up today.

Speaking of Babin, he was the only dude that showed any explosiveness on the ball.

One thing for sure is I hope Kubiak is looking at yesterdays game and realizing that CC Brown is not the anwer out there.

 

[thunderkyss]

You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

but didn't we have that already in DD, and people were saying he's just avg at best??

150 total yards......... that's not bad on Reggie's part. But comparing his game against Cleveland, to Mario's game against Philly is ludacris......

 

[Hulk75]

yeah, but you should see him in shorts and in a short shuttle and broad jump!

Are you going to start after Mario now? I cant let that happen either.

He will be fine, I still say he needs to be at DE and left there. Dang Richard Smith if you wanted a guy to take up doubles you should have just went after tedd washington this off season.

He needs to stay at end.

 

[powerfuldragon]

 

[Hulk75]

They moved him all over the line and he was on different players constantly. He was stoned by everyone.

I would not say that, he is just reading too much instead of reacting, and he stays with his guy waaaaaaaaaay too long right now.You have to get off and move, always have to be moving while playing dline.

Like I said he needs to get on the hip off the olineman, he makes it too easy when all he tries to do is bullrush.

 

[Hulk75]

Just like I said earlier, people are always wanting the quick fix................

You know what people should not count out guys too fast...................
David Carr looked pretty dang good in his first real game in a real offense, it takes time and people are soooooooooooooooooo impatient now days it makes me sick.Everyone looks for the quick fix now days and that does NOT last in the long run. Count this guy out now and you will regret it later. This guy is 21 years old, he needs time, I think the coaches need to put him at the end spot and leave him there..............GET HIM DOWN to 280lbs and let him go, see the 1st couple of plays with Mario at END he killed John Runyan and would have gotten himself a sack if we would have played a little tighter.

 

[real]

He also has poor pass vs. run recognition, slow reactions....

 

[Mr. White]

I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...

Comparing Mario to Bush is played out. Apples and oranges. Calling him a bust after 1 game is played out.

He's got a lot on his plate right now. He's got 4 positions that he has to learn. He's playing against seasoned veterans that can keep him tied up.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be getting criticized. There's 54 million reasons why he should. He didn't look good, but who did? He's part of an entire unit that looked horrendous on Sunday.

 

[real]

Just like I said earlier, people are always wanting the quick fix................

I don't think anyone is counting him out.....Aren't you just a little dissapointed in his play ?

 

[Vinny]

but didn't we have that already in DD, and people were saying he's just avg at best??

150 total yards......... that's not bad on Reggie's part. But comparing his game against Cleveland, to Mario's game against Philly is ludacris......

If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well,

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

 

[real]

Comparing Mario to Bush is played out. Apples and oranges. Calling him a bust after 1 game is played out.

He's got a lot on his plate right now. He's got 4 positions that he has to learn. He's playing against seasoned veterans that can keep him tied up.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be getting criticized. There's 54 million reasons why he should. He didn't look good, but who did? He's part of an entire unit that looked horrendous on Sunday.

He was part of that unit...but he's the most exspensive part of that unit...He is/was expected to be the most dominant player on the defense...He wasn't even the best player on the DL...We can criticize the defensive unit all day long, but this is a MW thread so that is who is being talked about...Mario played poorly...more poorly than expected...I am not sure what you are arguing against....

 

[real]

If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well,

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

freakin dito.

 

[Malloy]

If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well,

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

I agree with your take on DD, but I would have loved to see what his multi-year experience could have generated in the yardage department yesterday.

 

[cred]

I don't know who urinated on all of your cheerios today, with all of this whining, but you know what? Who cares. It is one game and there is always tomarrow, or today for that matter. Do I think Mario did poorly, yes, but does my oppinion really matter, probably not. I am not paying his salary, Bob Mcnair is. So how about we give him a chance of more that one game, before we start calling him a bust. Oh, and with whole Reggie thing, do you really think that a DE has the same possibility to touch the ball as much as a RB. To be honest Reggie Bush should have had at least 200 yards combined between rushing, recieving, and returns, under the circumstances of playing the Downs, I mean Browns.

So lets get real and honestly give some one longer that one game to make an assessment of their overall ability.

 

[Mr. White]

I should have known that this was really a Reggie Bush thread in disguise.

 

[Hulk75]

I don't think anyone is counting him out.....Aren't you just a little dissapointed in his play ?

Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

 

[Mr. White]

Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

Don't you know he should have been doing that since he was in diapers?

 

[real]

Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

That is easier said than done...If he could have done it I think he would have...unless you all are implying that he was holding something back...

 

[thunderkyss]

If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well,

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

But he got us chunks of yardage that changed our field position..... I'm sure he had a couple of 150 yard games

 

[Hulk75]

That is easier said than done...If he could have done it I think he would have...unless you all are implying that he was holding something back...

I am not Mario but I have played the possition for a long time.

Sometimes coaches have plays were the ends rush and the 2 or even 1 inside guy(s) stay in to chase down a running qb. They push push push and the ends are there to flush him up into the arms of the inside guys, MAYBE that is what they were doing, all I know is is that when he should be doing something routine like dip and ripping or shedding his guy he just is a step too slow right now, thats why I said he looks like he is just reading too much instead of reacting and just playing ball.

He is only 21years old, the game will slow down for him when he just plays and does not think too much..........I could be wrong though I dont know the play or what he is thinking. Just what I saw on some plays.