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Manziel

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matts290 said:
Nope. What most people don't understand is for logical and rational Aggies like myself and Htown, seeing this smear campaign and assassination on Manziel's character is absolutely sickening....

....Sorry, but seeing this just pisses me off so much because how the media has pigeoned holed Manziel is just a sad microcosm of how our society today allows their televisions and phones dictate their perception of a person character...A person they have never once met in their entire life.
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I hear what you're saying, and with that said...

Yet almost every Aggie I talk to HATES LeBron James. I get looking out for 'your own', but you're all hypocrites too. Sorry.

FWIW I back LBJ and JFF 100% (just not on the Texans).
 
TexansFTW said:
I hear what you're saying, and with that said...

Yet almost every Aggie I talk to HATES LeBron James. I get looking out for 'your own', but you're all hypocrites too. Sorry.

FWIW I back LBJ and JFF 100% (just not on the Texans).
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What does Lebron James have to do with it? I'm an aggie and I hate him, but that's because I grew up around Cleveland.

Although if he left the Heat to come back to the Cavs, all would be forgiven and he would be seen as the prodigal son. :)
 
matts290 said:
Nope. What most people don't understand is for logical and rational Aggies like myself and Htown, seeing this smear campaign and assassination on Manziel's character is absolutely sickening.

Being on the front lines of one of the biggest media harassment's of a college athlete is something that people outside of Aggieland will just never get. If you were sitting in our shoes and saw what we saw up close and personal, you would have a totally different view.

And please don't confuse the above with some irrational agenda for Manziel to become a Texan just because he also played for my alma mater. That is not it at all. I do not personally feel Manziel is the right choice for us at 1.1 nor do I think he is the best QB in this draft...

What I do feel strongly about is how all these sheeple have succumb to the E!SPN hype once again and now view Manziel as some lazy, drunkard, self absorbed, prima donna who never gave two **** about anything but himself. Which is 100% incorrect.

It hurts to see a kid who did so much for your school get berated and belittled by a bunch of worthless morons with a macbook and a blog.

Very few people want to talk about his merit as an actual football player. Instead everyone wants diss him for things like simply going to a charity even and putting on a shirt with his name on the back.

Sorry, but seeing this just pisses me off so much because how the media has pigeoned holed Manziel is just a sad microcosm of how our society today allows their televisions and phones dictate their perception of a person character...A person they have never once met in their entire life.
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This is why I don't ******* with ESPN. Its more MTV than sports. They are the original TMZ sports. Its all about eyeballs, they need more and similar to the Tebow thing, they know Manziel brings viewers who aren't necessarily into the game or the x's and o's. So they are going to give you Manziel outside of the lines as much as possible. Look Johny did this or that, then they'll have two talking heads debate over whether something he did or said can be completely construed left or completely construed right. We all need to realize that the dedicated sports fans matter little, they've got you looking and watching already, they need to create a buzz so that people who wouldn't know a nickel from a dime will watch.
 
Playoffs said:
Johnny Manziel signs with Nike
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Just like any DC worth his salt should be able to field a potent defense with JaDeveon Clowney, I believe any good OC should be able to field a prolific offense with Manziel (Bridgewater too).

& as excited as you'd think a DC would be to get his "hands" on Clowney, I think OCs would be drooling to get their hands on Manziel. I know many don't believe his game will translate to the NFL (just like they worry about Clowney's work ethic), but that depends on the offense you design for him.

Just to be clear, I do not advocate taking Johnny Manziel with the #1 overall. But I can understand why some team would want to.

But damn... why couldn't this kid wait 'till after the draft? Nike isn't going anywhere.
 
Dutchrudder said:
I'd be interested in that, assuming we got Dallas' pick at #16. Romo currently has the majority of his contract tied up in signing bonus, which means he would only cost:

2014 $1,000,000
2015 $17,000,000
2016 $8,500,000
2017 $14,000,000
2018 $19,500,000
2019 $20,500,000

Only his 2014 salary would be guaranteed. 7.5m of his 2015 salary would be guaranteed if he's on the roster in 2015.

However, Dallas would incur about 40 million in cap acceleration from his signing bonuses, so it has no chance of happening.
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DR, I KNOW you didn't forget who's at the wheel up there. It'll never happen, I agree. But as long as Jerrah is calling the shots, nothing would surprise me.

Just sayin'.
 
thunderkyss said:
Just like any DC worth his salt should be able to field a potent defense with JaDeveon Clowney, I believe any good OC should be able to field a prolific offense with Manziel (Bridgewater too).

& as excited as you'd think a DC would be to get his "hands" on Clowney, I think OCs would be drooling to get their hands on Manziel. I know many don't believe his game will translate to the NFL (just like they worry about Clowney's work ethic), but that depends on the offense you design for him.

Just to be clear, I do not advocate taking Johnny Manziel with the #1 overall. But I can understand why some team would want to.

But damn... why couldn't this kid wait 'till after the draft? Nike isn't going anywhere.
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What's the difference?

Curious.
 
PapaL said:
So much for keeping a low profile and only concentrating on football.

Johnny Manziel visits spring training; LINK



mlb_e_manziel01jr_400x600.jpg
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No real news here.

I mean, what's so news worthy about finding a hot dog at a ball park?

:stirpot:
 
_King_ said:
What's the difference?

Curious.
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IMO, the only thing he "did" that would raise eyebrows off the field, was taking money for his autograph. He argued it down, was suspended for half a game, blah, blah, blah...

makes it seem like it's all about the money. This... makes it seem like it's all about the money. It's not like he had to leave school early so he could take care of his parents. It's not like he's married with kids of his own needing his support.

I wouldn't have a problem if it were Bridgewater, Bortles, or even McCarron who signed a dieal at this time. But Manziel is in a situation where this question was raised.
 
jradMIT said:
This is why I don't ******* with ESPN. Its more MTV than sports. They are the original TMZ sports. Its all about eyeballs, they need more and similar to the Tebow thing, they know Manziel brings viewers who aren't necessarily into the game or the x's and o's. So they are going to give you Manziel outside of the lines as much as possible. Look Johny did this or that, then they'll have two talking heads debate over whether something he did or said can be completely construed left or completely construed right. We all need to realize that the dedicated sports fans matter little, they've got you looking and watching already, they need to create a buzz so that people who wouldn't know a nickel from a dime will watch.
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TV Sports Networks have become the supermarket tabloids of Cable.
 
thunderkyss said:
IMO, the only thing he "did" that would raise eyebrows off the field, was taking money for his autograph. He argued it down, was suspended for half a game, blah, blah, blah...

makes it seem like it's all about the money. This... makes it seem like it's all about the money. It's not like he had to leave school early so he could take care of his parents. It's not like he's married with kids of his own needing his support.

I wouldn't have a problem if it were Bridgewater, Bortles, or even McCarron who signed a dieal at this time. But Manziel is in a situation where this question was raised.
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Just because you have money doesn't mean you don't have the right to pursue more, taking other people's stories into consideration when evaluating an individual is wack IMO.

What if someone poorer or in more need of a job applies for the same job you do, but they chose you for the job? Would you forfeit the job that you also need because they need it more? Hell no, this is America, Nike will find someone else if Manziel waits and has a bad scenario play out.

It's a smart move for Manziel. I'd be willing to bet that Nike scouts don't know as much as NFL scouts and if Manziel drops to pick #24 as Andy Dalton's backup then his earning power is now a fraction of what it was.

I would ink any deal as quickly as possible. His earning power now is greater than I foresee it ever being again.
 
Having read the Manziel piece in Texas Monthly, this may well be his way of "making it on his own" financially.
 
Warren Moon Claims Johnny Manziel Could Become Next Tim Tebow; LINK

You’re talking about taking a guy number one overall in the draft and he’s 5’11. He didn’t really run that fast at the combine, only about a 4.6 which was closer to a 4.7, so you are talking about a small guy that’s not very fast in an NFL that’s big strong and fast. He likes to run around and make plays and he was able to do that in college. I just don’t know how well that’s going to transition into the National Football League.
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I could see Manziel being Tim Tebow like.

Great college player, relied on their legs a lot (though Manziel is the better passer obviously), showed a lot of emotion during games, spoke very confidently about their abilities, rah rah type, very popular in the media, kind of divisive, some question whether they can change enough about their game to translate to NFL success...

Manziel is a better passer than Tebow, but I can see some similarities between the two as well. Not saying Manziel will flame out like Tebow, but the possibility exists.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Why is it any different coming from Warren Moon?
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It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
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What does his own career have to do with his evaluation of players?
 
thunderkyss said:
It's not like Warren Moon demonstrated himself to be a great passer at the college level. He played in the system he was in to the best of his ability.

At the collegiate level, his offense was based on running the ball... including from the QB position. At the pro level, at least with the Oilers, he was in a "gimmick" passing offense... not saying he was a product of the system.

I can't think of any other QB that did as much of a 180 from his college career to his pro career as Warren Moon. So, to me anyway, I find it odd that Moon would say Manziel is the next Tebow.
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IMO his comparison is strictly based on his doubts that Manziel's ability to make the type of plays he made in college with his feet will transfer over to the NFL and has nothing to do with comparing their throwing ability. If that's the case then it's a fair comparison if you have the doubts Moon does. Since Manziel is undersized he needs to run a much better time at his pro day.
 
Carr Bombed said:
IMO his comparison is strictly based on his doubts that Manziel's ability to make the type of plays he made in college with his feet will transfer over to the NFL and has nothing to do with comparing their throwing ability. If that's the case then it's a fair comparison if you have the doubts Moon does. Since Manziel is undersized he needs to run a much better time at his pro day.
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That is the way I took it. Purely doubts about translation to the NFL with concerns for same possible outcome not a comparison of all the characteristics of their play.

Which gets me to a pet peeve. I hate that so many people think simply putting two names in the same sentence is a comparison of every aspect of the two. If I say Manning's first two years he had INT problems just like Carr (random choice, not an actual assertion) I don't mean anything beyond exactly that one point of comparison. I hate inane responses like "oh sure so Carr is a hall of famer now."
 
_King_ said:
I could see Manziel being Tim Tebow like.

Great college player, relied on their legs a lot (though Manziel is the better passer obviously), showed a lot of emotion during games, spoke very confidently about their abilities, rah rah type, very popular in the media, kind of divisive, some question whether they can change enough about their game to translate to NFL success...

Manziel is a better passer than Tebow, but I can see some similarities between the two as well. Not saying Manziel will flame out like Tebow, but the possibility exists.
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Yep

Too much risk of flame out to pick 1-1 for my taste.
 
He has absolutely no instinct or feel for pocket awareness. He has an instinct to run. That’s a bad instinct if you’re going to have that in the National Football League,” Hoge said on “SportsCenter” on Wednesday. “You have to play in the pocket with traffic around you and throw it. When traffic comes around him, he runs, and that’s dangerous in the National Football League. His skill set does not transition to the National Football League, and it is a big, big risk. In fact, I see bust written all over him, especially if he’s drafted in the first round.
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http://www.secrant.com/news/63871/4...errill-Hodges-bust-Analysis-Of-Johnny-Manziel
 
IDEXAN said:
He has absolutely no instinct or feel for pocket awareness. He has an instinct to run. That’s a bad instinct if you’re going to have that in the National Football League,” Hoge said on “SportsCenter” on Wednesday. “You have to play in the pocket with traffic around you and throw it. When traffic comes around him, he runs, and that’s dangerous in the National Football League. His skill set does not transition to the National Football League, and it is a big, big risk. In fact, I see bust written all over him, especially if he’s drafted in the first round.
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http://www.secrant.com/news/63871/4...errill-Hodges-bust-Analysis-Of-Johnny-Manziel
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Smart, innovative OC can design an offense around JFF's skill set.

Hoge just trying to raise his own profile with these absolute statements. He's a tool.
 
Hoge is a tool who has a propensity for making stupid statements.

But he is right about Manziel's pocket awareness. The kid consistently bails for no reason. Regardless of his arm talent he is still a run first QB. That's his mentality.
 
Playoffs said:
Smart, innovative OC can design an offense around JFF's skill set.

Hoge just trying to raise his own profile with these absolute statements. He's a tool.
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Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
And most of all, JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
 
And I though he didn't want to be "Johnny Football" anymore...?

Johnny Manziel could soon own the trademark for the moniker he’s made famous.

ESPN’s Darren Rovell reports that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office sent a letter Thursday to Kenneth R. Reynolds Family Investments rejecting its claim that the “Johnny Football” phrase wasn’t referring to an individual.

“Registration is refused because the applied-for mark consists of or includes a name, portrait, or signature identifying a particular living individual whose written consent to register the mark is not of record,” the examining attorney wrote.

Kenneth R. Reynolds Family Investments filed for the trademark on Nov. 1, 2012, while Manziel was in the midst of his Heisman Trophy winning season at Texas A&M. The quarterback’s corporation, JMAN2 Enterprises, filed for the trademark on Feb. 2, 2013.

The College Station-based investment firm has up to six months to appeal the ruling.
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IDEXAN said:
...JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
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Exactly.
 
IDEXAN said:
Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
And most of all, JM just doesn't look like an O'brien kind of QB, though he might be perfect for another HC/OCs system ?
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Lol, exactly...Designer offenses can only get you so far...solid defenses will take you out of the comforts of that designer offense & a good qb has to be able to counter...most qb's who require those type of offenses won't take you anywhere & certainly aren't worthy of a top 10 pick let alone 1:1.

Furthermore, we just traded away a qb who needed an offense designed around what he does best to make him look good. How'd that work out for us?
 
PFF: The Johnny Manziel Debate
Texas A&M quarterback Johnny Manziel is one of the most polarizing players in the 2014 NFL draft class. While he posted gaudy numbers over his two seasons at College Station, the signal caller has come under fire for his off-the-field transgressions and hard-to-translate style of play. Ross Miles and I recently debated the possibility of Manziel becoming a franchise quarterback.

The Case Against Manziel (by Ross Miles)

When I watch tape of Johnny Manziel, I don’t see a franchise quarterback I’d want to build a NFL team around. His off-the-field endeavors don’t bother me, and he certainly has the “IT” factor required to be the face of a franchise; instead, my issues are with his game...

The Case for Manziel (by Eli Nachmany)

Some of the NFL’s best quarterbacks are the ones who simply find a way. From Fran Tarkenton to Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers, the league’s history is littered with signal callers who improvise post-snap. Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel is one of those quarterbacks...
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Some of the NFL’s best quarterbacks are the ones who simply find a way. From Fran Tarkenton to Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers, the league’s history is littered with signal callers who improvise post-snap. Texas A&M’s Johnny Manziel is one of those quarterbacks...
*********************
OK Fran Tarkenton might be a valid comparison to Manziel, but he last played 35 years ago which was an entirely different brand & era of football compared to todays NFL, and there's no telling how his style would have fared these days. And I don't think the comparison to Rogers or Farve is valid because unlike Manziel both of those QBs had elite arms.
 
IDEXAN said:
Is "design" code for control or manage ?
The thing is once they tone-down Manziel's urge to take off running wildly all over the field, with the new understated version of Jonny Football, what's left is a much less entertaining QB with just a mediocre arm, at best.
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You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
 
mussop said:
You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
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Hmmph... Teddy's bois don't count pro days.
 
mussop said:
You are either the worst talent evaluator ever or you have a negative emotional attachment to Manziel to make a statement like that. Mediocre arm? We'll see in a few days.
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Haters gonna hate ....


All I know is that every time I've watched T A&M Johnny Football is making big plays and winning football games.


I'm still a bit undecided on these QB's. Bridgewater didn't help himself with his pro day & Bortles didn't exactly light the world on fire. Carr had a really good pro day .... & Johnny Football has his in a few days.
 
Playoffs said:
Lance Zierlein is doing a Top 3 QB in depth analysis series...

Johnny Manziel piece here for discussion: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2316744#post2316744

and here: http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/ranking-top-three-qbs-2014-nfl-draft-johnny-manziel
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good quote from article

When Manziel threw from the pocket, he complete 73.6% of his passes for 3,429 yards, 9.95 ypa and 27 TDs. Can Manziel scramble and hurt you with his feet? Absolutely, but to assume that his passing game primarily revolved around scrambling and making passing outside the pocket would be a mistake.

Exactly!!! Hate when people act as if he's just a runner and doesn't have conventional QB skills.
 
damnit to hell, if Manziel were 3-4 inches taller it would have put this QB controversy to rest.
 
bah007 said:
Hoge is a tool who has a propensity for making stupid statements.

But he is right about Manziel's pocket awareness. The kid consistently bails for no reason. Regardless of his arm talent he is still a run first QB. That's his mentality.
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I don't think that's quite fair or truthful.


What I see is a guy who goes thru the first two reads and then looks to get gone. If those first two reads aren't there .... he's getting out of the pocket.

That isn't all bad because he does have great downfield vision on the run and when he breaks the pocket it puts pressure on the defense , someone who is in coverage is going to have to step up or he has the ability to make them pay.

He hasn't gotten to the point where he's routinely making 3-4 reads and looking for a check down .... but with his vision , I don't see why he cant take that next step. I really believe with the right coach this cat can be one of the games best.


Right now I'm "leaning" Manziel over Bortles & Bridgewater (In that order). I really want to see what he does at his pro day. The other two definitely didn't help themselves there.
 
Corrosion said:
He hasn't gotten to the point where he's routinely making 3-4 reads and looking for a check down .... but with his vision , I don't see why he cant take that next step. I really believe with the right coach this cat can be one of the games best.
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I try not to "blame" these kids for the offenses they're put in. It's not like the coaches bring their QBs in & say, "I think you're smart enough to run a full pro-style offense, we're going to run the Erhardt-Perkins offense." Or, I like your instincts & quick reaction, we're going to run Bill Walsh's WCO."

Spread coaches are going to run the spread, & it bears no meaning to the capabilities of the player.

There may very well not have been a third read. Still, over 70% of his big plays were made from the pocket, within the confines of the system. Tells me he's coachable, & that stuff he does outside the pocket... you couldn't teach that if you tried. It's natural to him. Like breathing.
 
ACCURACY (INCLUDING ON THE MOVE)

I’ve heard questions about whether or not Manziel can beat a team from the pocket and to do that, he has to prove that he is accurate. Was he accurate from the pocket in college? Yes. Yes he was.

When Manziel threw from the pocket, he complete 73.6% of his passes for 3,429 yards, 9.95 ypa and 27 TDs. Can Manziel scramble and hurt you with his feet? Absolutely, but to assume that his passing game primarily revolved around scrambling and making passing outside the pocket would be a mistake.

NFL QBs must be accurate on the short to intermediate throws, and Manziel was just that. I went back and researched his throws from 6 - 15 yards and Manziel completed 65.7% of those passes including 66% on his intermediate sideline throws. The one area of concern, however, was that Manziel had 7 INTs on his 111 throws from this range.

MAKES NFL THROWS

This is one of the areas that some evaluators believe Manziel could struggle with on the next level. It isn’t necessarily the arm strength that is the knock here, it is the feel and the anticipation that tends to get him knocked. I’ve seen some of the anticipation issues with my own eyes as Manziel has waited for a window to come open rather than throwing to a spot. Is this coachable? It can be.



I also believe that many NFL offensive coaches are much more flexible than in the past and understand how to tailor offenses around what a QB does well rather than asking them to fit into “the norm” as we’ve seen in the past.

Of Manziel’s 37 TD passes this year, only 10 came from behind the line of scrimmage to five yards down the field - the classic dump and dash that we see in college. According to the STATS Ice data, Manziel had 27 TDs passes beyond 6 yards including 12 that were for 16+ yards.
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More at the link.
http://www.thesidelineview.com/columns/draft/ranking-top-three-qbs-2014-nfl-draft-johnny-manziel
 
thunderkyss said:
I try not to "blame" these kids for the offenses they're put in. It's not like the coaches bring their QBs in & say, "I think you're smart enough to run a full pro-style offense, we're going to run the Erhardt-Perkins offense." Or, I like your instincts & quick reaction, we're going to run Bill Walsh's WCO."

Spread coaches are going to run the spread, & it bears no meaning to the capabilities of the player.

There may very well not have been a third read. Still, over 70% of his big plays were made from the pocket, within the confines of the system. Tells me he's coachable, & that stuff he does outside the pocket... you couldn't teach that if you tried. It's natural to him. Like breathing.
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You make a good point , we really don't know what Manziel is asked to do as far as reads in that offense. Keenum was very good in it @ UH but really seems to struggle past a second read , but like Manziel has good vision once he breaks the pocket.

Really makes you think about his transition to the NFL ....
 
Johnny Manziel posts video showing off slam-dunking skills
Just three days before he will perform for NFL coaches and scouts at his pro-day workout, Johnny Manziel posted an Instagram video of himself dunking basketballs...

http://instagram.com/jmanziel2
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Brandt: Johnny Manziel will surprise teams at his pro day
I think Manziel came to Texas A&M as a running-type QB, but quickly became a very good passer. I've said many times that he reminds me of Hall of Famer Fran Tarkenton when he played in the NFL, only I think Manziel has better athletic ability.

I will be at Manziel's workout Thursday and feel that people will be surprised at how well he passes that day, both in terms of accuracy and also when they see his arm strength.

Manziel is going to be an outstanding NFL player for many years, for three reasons: He's one of the great competitors of all time out of college; he's an exceptional athlete; and he has the ability to bring your team from behind and win games when you're hopelessly out, like he did against Duke in this year's Chick-fil-A Bowl.

This guy is something special, and I'm excited to watch him in person Thursday.
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